Cilician Clothing

[Korelyi]

Բարեւ,

 

I am in the Society for Creative Anachronism (hereafter referred to as the SCA), an organisation that covers the entire of North America and most of Europe, which is devoted to 'living the life' of people from the middle-ages. We do heavy-armor combat, rapier fighting, armoring, clothes making, etc. as well as simply have fun playing our persona.

 

For my persona, I've chosen a Cilician Armenian during the First Crusade. The problem is, I know little about the Cilicians. Could anyone here provide me with information about the Cilician lifestyle (clothing, mainly)?

 

I was told that it is a lot like mainstream European, but with Persian influences. If that is so, specifically what kinds of things are influenced? Any information on this would be helpful to me.

 

Շնորհակալութիւն,

Jonathan

(SCA name Aram Terjanian)

[Zartonk]

Hey Jonathan!

 

Welcome to HF! That's an interesting project you're involved in. Here are some images that might help you along.(Try searching the forum well)

 

http://www.iatp.am/culture/taraz2/takhtak24.gif

 

http://iatp.am/culture/taraz2/takhtak21_1.gif

 

http://iatp.am/culture/taraz2/takhtak21_2.gif

 

http://iatp.am/culture/taraz2/takhtak18_1.gif

 

This last one is from Total War Crusaders expansion pack. I don't know how historically accurate it is

 

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3552/armenianpreview1gg.jpg

 

And these are the costumes of Kilikian sailors. They could give you a rough idea.

 

http://www.abovian.nl//images/abovian_nl/blog/50/r_DSCN5428.jpg

 

http://www.abovian.nl//images/abovian_nl/blog/50/r_DSCN5424.jpg

 

http://www.abovian.nl//images/abovian_nl/blog/50/r_DSCN5437.jpg

 

 

 

[Korelyi]

Շնորհակալ եմ, Zartonk!

 

These are very helpful, indeed. Especially the pictures at the end.

 

EDIT: Would you happen to know the name of those hats? And the robes, do they have any specific name? I'd like to know, so I can track them down on the internet.

 

Another thing, would the Cilicians have ever worn Persian boots (the kind with the upturned toe)?

Edited May 3, 2007 by Korelyi

[Anoushik]

Korelyi, your post really interested me. I didn't know of such societies.

 

I found this on HyeEtch. Click on the third picture of the page. It's described to be from Cilician Dynasty. I know that you're looking for men's costume, but this could be a guide as well

[Korelyi]

Korelyi, your post really interested me. I didn't know of such societies.

 

I found this on HyeEtch. Click on the third picture of the page. It's described to be from Cilician Dynasty. I know that you're looking for men's costume, but this could be a guide as well

 

Yes, I've seen those. They don't help me much, to be honest, but I thank you for your contribution nonetheless.

 

Oh, and for those interested in the SCA, here's a quick demonstration of what I do: Heavy Armor Combat.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCWZaSp-fsY...ted&search=

Edited May 3, 2007 by Korelyi

[Anoushik]

That's pretty cool

 

Are the combats staged/choreographed or are they really fighting spontaneously?

 

And is there a role for the women?

[Korelyi]

That's pretty cool

 

Are the combats staged/choreographed or are they really fighting spontaneously?

 

And is there a role for the women?

 

It is all spontaneous combat. No choreography whatsoever. See, we use rattan weapons; Rattan, because it's hard like a hardwood and just as strong, but because it's actually a grass, if it does break it will simply snap cleanly, so there are no sharp edges to stab someone with without realizing it.

 

Yes, women fight just as much as the men. I've had the pleasure of fighting alongside women who can kick more arse than some men can!

 

Women don't always fight, though. Often times, they can be combat archers (padded tip arrows), or they make clothing, chainmail, etc.

 

There's really no limit to what you can do in the SCA.

 

Here, take a look at this. This is a video of the Pennsic Wars, the single largest event in the entire SCA.

 

 

Note: This battle is completely spontaneous. No choreography. We just run at each other and LAY ON!

Edited May 3, 2007 by Korelyi

[Anoushik]

Wow, that's a lot of people

[Korelyi]

Wow, that's a lot of people

 

Indeed, it is.

 

Back on the topic at hand, though... Why is it so hard to find historically accurate images of Cilician clothing?

 

On a related note, would anyone happen to have a high-resolution version of this?

 

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Dieste/RubenidCOA.gif

 

I plan to put it on the front of my tabard (surcoat worn over the top of your armor).

Edited May 3, 2007 by Korelyi

[Arpa]

Indeed, it is.

 

Back on the topic at hand, though... Why is it so hard to find historically accurate images of Cilician clothing?

 

On a related note, would anyone happen to have a high-resolution version of this?

 

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Dieste/RubenidCOA.gif

 

I plan to put it on the front of my tabard (surcoat worn over the top of your armor).

Yes indeed dear Korelyi.

Why is it that many of ur correspondents choose to knee-jerkingly "REACT" to Turks, try and trash their "kultur", rather than "ACT".... and promote OUR OWN culture. Why do some of us choose to let the likes of Zurd-kaka have us dance at the end of a string?

What ii it?

Are we Armenians or are we Arm-O-ttomans?

[Korelyi]

Yes indeed dear Korelyi.

Why is it that many of ur correspondents choose to knee-jerkingly "REACT" to Turks, try and trash their "kultur", rather than "ACT".... and promote OUR OWN culture. Why do some of us choose to let the likes of Zurd-kaka have us dance at the end of a string?

What ii it?

Are we Armenians or are we Arm-O-ttomans?

 

True enough. I'm not even Armenian, nor do I have Armenian ancestry. I don't have a drop of Armenian blood in me, as far as I know, and I still wish to promote the Armenian culture in any way I can. I consider myself Unofficially Armenian.

[nairi]

What are these guys wearing?

 

 

(couldn't find any close-ups)

 

Another example:

 

[nairi]

And this one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcykRzdUqbA

[Anoushik]

True enough. I'm not even Armenian, nor do I have Armenian ancestry. I don't have a drop of Armenian blood in me, as far as I know, and I still wish to promote the Armenian culture in any way I can. I consider myself Unofficially Armenian.

That's also pretty awesome Korelyi

 

I have a question. If you do find the Cilician costume you're looking for, doesn't it cost a lot of money for someone to replicate that costume from print into actual clothing? If must be pretty expensive.

[Shahan Araradian]

There is a book by the Համազգային (Hamazkayin) published not long ago on Armenian traditional costumes from various parts of Armenia (including historical Armenia).

 

If you live in the L.A. area, you should be able to find a copy at Abril books or Sardarabad, both in Glendale. (I don't know of any pics online, though...)

[Korelyi]

Thanks, guys.

 

Anoushik: No, it doesn't cost a whole lot. In fact, I can even trade a service (such as helping them transport materials for x amount of hours) for free clothing.

 

Shahan: I don't live in the L.A. area, quite far from it, in fact. Florida, to be precise. Thanks anyway!

 

To everyone: I really need a high-resolution image of the COA for the Rubenid Dynasty! This is what I'm talking about:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Dieste/RubenidCOA.gif

 

It's going to be put on the front of my tabard that I wear over my armor, but that one is way too small, and any attempt to blow it up to a larger size leaves it pixelated and terrible looking.

 

If anyone can blow it up and keep it nice and clean, or can find a larger CoA, I would be forever grateful!

[neko]

 

To everyone: I really need a high-resolution image of the COA for the Rubenid Dynasty! This is what I'm talking about:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Dieste/RubenidCOA.gif

 

It's going to be put on the front of my tabard that I wear over my armor, but that one is way too small, and any attempt to blow it up to a larger size leaves it pixelated and terrible looking.

 

If anyone can blow it up and keep it nice and clean, or can find a larger CoA, I would be forever grateful!

That is not the generally recognised Rubenid coat of arms - it is a lion walking, seen side on, holding a cross on a long staff.

[Arpa]

There is a book by the Համազգային (Hamazkayin) published not long ago on Armenian traditional costumes from various parts of Armenia (including historical Armenia).

 

If you live in the L.A. area, you should be able to find a copy at Abril books or Sardarabad, both in Glendale. (I don't know of any pics online, though...)

Shahan look here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10...amp;hl=costumes

[hosank]

hey john, you got a new account here?