Something About Our Language

[Johannes]

The bands between western and eastern armenians and the western and eastern armenian dialects is artificial. We forced to forget our native dialects and we compulsorily educated Istanbul’s Armenians dialect. The same accident happened for the eastern armenians, They had to accept the Kanaker dialect as a byword for the formal eastern armenian. The border between east and west Armenia’s is chimerical and political.

The cause of all our linguistic problems is the collapse of our country’s independence, and the carnages during hundreds of years , and finally the terrible Genocide that ended any hope for the normal evolution of the all armenian people. The only protector for the armenian language can be the state of Armenia. May i ask a question! Why millions of arabs can read and speak and write their 1500 years old language? and we do not.

Because we are so slothful and provincial, and we don’t have patriotic bethinking. The ancient Armenian was unification element for us. finally i am dazzled that there are mad people around the globe, who are discussing about the origin of the words. I believed that I am lonely in this interest.

[Johannes]

Thank you

[Johannes]

also

[Vartan Mamigonian]

May i ask a question! Why millions of arabs can read and speak and write their 1500 years old language? and we do not.

Some of us do. Just ask yervantig!

[Arpa]

Dear Houhannes , firstly welcome.

I wish you would repost your articles in a text form. The scans are so difficult to read, I had to perform incredible acrobatics to make them a little legible.

You make good points. May I be so bold to remind the readership that these subjects have been discussed on numerous occasions, even if at times very disjointed. Your articles may yet be the most comprehensive of all. However I am forced to repeat an old saying: “Charity beigns at home”.

Yes we know what devastation that anitsyal, cursed Abeghian brought to our sacred Mesropian language , yet it does not justify the so called western Armenian’s damage to our language as well. When one speaks about the so called western Armenian one must distinguish, as you so well did between the Armenian spoken in Kilikia and that in Polis. Yes, Polis, not Bolis.

Let’s begin with your name, whether one writes it in Latin Johannes, English Hovhannes or Armenian as you did Յովհաննէս. We know that that name comes to us from the Aramaic JoUhann/YoUhanna, not JoVhanna or HoVhanna,, therefore in the Hellenized transliteration (ending in -es)to the Armenian should have been ՅոՒհաննէս, note the Ւhyun that is equal to the Latin U. Not Hovhannes but Houhannes.. Why the Latins have chosen to to pronounce it as O just as Yousef ends up as Joseph, and once again retains the V sound as in HoVsep. The reason for that is, and I am sure you as middles eastern know that in the Arabic the letter “wow” is used to both sound as O or OU depending on the context. Could it be that the original Aramaic wa ment to sound like Yohanna and not YoUhanna? In that case the Armenian would have been Not Յուհաննէս/Hovhannes but Hohannes/Յոհաննէս.

Once again. Charity begins at home.

You make a good point, even if you make light of it, why do we write DanielԴանիել and sound it as if it is ԹանիելTaniel, why do write David /Դավիդ and sound it as if Թավիթ/Tavit .Is it not time that we the so called western Armenians spyurkahays clean our house before we attack that horrible Abeghian garbage? It may too late for some of us, but is it not time that diaspora start teaching our children correct pronunciation? Is it not time that the diaspora bring teachers of Armenian from Yerevan to teach our children the correct pronunciation and use that opportunity to teach those teachers the correct classical orthography and btw to once again teach them the AybBenGim is composed of 36 Mesropian characters a(38 with O and F) and not as they promote, 39 characters including the Yev as a letter. How stupid , when that “yev” is sometimes, I said sometimes included to separate the original 36 fro the O an F, and even more stupid when a character is assined on the already overcrowded keyboard , and now those idiots in Yerevan view it as a letter. Even in the English some children will recite the ABC as ….W X Y and Z. Does that make “and” a letter of the alphabet?

As above, these subjects have often been debated, mostly under the subject topic of “language” (not so much “literature”), we will come back and address some of the issues you raise one at a time, but I cannot end this post without citing one of the most ridiculous cases of transliteration/տարադարձ (I have expressed on many occasions my trepidation about the -utyun ending of Armenian nouns, why could not taradardz alone be a noun without that stupid -utyun?.

Anyway, that ridiculous case of re-re-transliteration is “baron”.WE know that that word came to us from Europe during Kilikian times, and I am sure the Kiliketsis pronounce it properly, yet when it was time to reduce it to Armenian script, those deaf idiots in Polis wrote it as Պարօն since to their deaf ears Պwas supposed to sound like BԲ, and now we re-transliterate it to the Latin as Paron. HUH!?? Hagop Paronian? Of course we have to talk about Hakob,Hagop as well just as we must revisit the spelling and the pronunciation of Cilicia//Գիլիգիա, Kilikia/Կիլիկիա.

 

PS. Yes Johannes, you have brought many thought provoking points, but would not the moderators see fit to move this thread to the Language section rather than Literature as, so far we have not spoken about literature as in discussing poetry etc.

PPS. Dear Hovhannes, please search and find those numerous discussions about this subject, they are mostly under the category of LANGUAGE, so we won’t repeat what has already been said.

[Arpa]

You brought up the issue of the government being the keeper of the language, just as during the times of Mesrop and Sahak. Does that mean we needa “language Police”?

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=7582&st=0&

Yes, if it were up to me, we do need a Language Police.

If you can’t zero in on the said article go to ArmeniaNow archives and find the article in Nov. 21, 2003 issue.

http://www.armenianow.com/archive/2004/200...ongue/index.htm

Partial, as my system wil not allow pasting the whole thing.

"Tongue Lashing: Businesses better beware of Armenia's language law

By Gayane Mkrtchyan

ArmeniaNow reporter

How do you write "New York" in Armenian?

A State inspection department is on a mission to save Armenia from an identity crisis.

Since early this month, the State Language Inspection office has been going door-to-door at Yerevan businesses, sternly reminding that the law requires that city shop and cafe signs be printed in Armenian.

Many signs, especially of foreign fashion names now appear only in English - a violation of Armenia's "Our Home, Our Language" law.

The inspection office recently took journalists along as it visited businesses that were on a list of 400 violators. The new action proposes fines of up to 200,000 drams (about $350) for owners whose businesses do not comply with the language law.

While they say they are doing a national service, inspectors are not met so patriotically by businesspeople, who are not eager to spend money making new signs or changing old ones.

At Nana Beggon clothing store on Tumanyan Street an employee of the store told the inspector: "I completely ignore the Armenian letters, don't threaten me by the law, I can sue you, if necessary".

Inspection department head Levon Galstyan, says responses during inspection reflects the education and upbringing of business owners....."

You also bring up the Arabic model. I have brought that up on numerous occasions, in addition I have also brought up the English model. No matter how many “dialects” of English there may be, all the way from Aberdeen to Zululand (once again, please, it is the gamut of the alphabet, A to Z), there is one, count them, ONE official English orthography. OK, we write “color” , the write “colour”… blah, blah, blah. As to Arabic, even if a native of Halep may not understand the dialect of an Omani, yet there still is one official orthography all the way from Casbah to Karachi, from Khartoum to Kamishli. Why? Do they have a Language Police? Yes! It is the Qoran. Do we have a “qoran”? Is not that “Queen of Translations“, the Armenian Bible our “qoran”? You state, let’s be generous, that there may be 7 million Armenians, half of which can’t even recite the AybBenGim, not to mention those who still insist that "yev" is a letter along the Mesropian Alphabet. Duhh!! Does it take a rocket scientist to realize that "yev" is a word, not a letter? One of the smallest nations, compare them to the number of speakers of English, not to mention Arabic, yet we see fit to have two complete sets of orthography and pronunciation systems.

Who is our Language Police? Is it that illiterate merchant of Polis or is it Lenin/Stalin or their monkey Manuk (Kapikian/Gabigian/Abeghian)? Have they not herd the saying that was composed about the City of Ani and its young boy King Gagik: “Vay qez qaghaq or tagavor@d Manuk e“? Woe to you city that your king is an infant?

Edited August 5, 2006 by Arpa

[Johannes]

I wish you would repost your articles in a text form.

 

Thank you Arpa. I shall try after now to write my messages in English, because I didn't used to write by nsl font. Because of my love to the Armenian language I’ll try to develop my English to discuss all of you.

 

The scans are so difficult to read, I had to perform incredible acrobatics to make them a little legible.

 

You can use ACDSee program with minus and plus keys on the board.

 

These subjects have been discussed on numerous occasions.

 

I know and I am reading the language topic in this forum. I began from the page 7 and arrived at page 3.

 

.This forum was a surprise to me. I found it when I was looking for hamshen Armenians in the Google

When I began to read the language topic, I amazed, because I found some people who are talking about topics, which I never had a chance to talk to any body.

And more amazed when I found many of you have the same ideas and views which I have.

I am fond of the ideas and the comments of Arpa and TB in this forum.

Let's begin with your name…

 

That topic is in my thought, for a long time... unfortunately I do not know the Aramaic language.

Somewhere I read, that the first dragomen had couplet source of the holy Bible, the first was the Syrian (Aramaic) exemplar and the second was the Greek. They began with the Aramaic holy Bible and then they decided to continue with the Greek exemplar, or they translated the Holy Bible first from the Aramaic exemplar then they compared it with the Greek exemplar. We know that at that time Armenia geographically was close to Syria and Mesopotamia, and big numbers of Syrians were the inhabitants of southern territories of Armenia, and their Armenian neighbors were in good knowledge of Aramaic language as well as saint Mesrop and his students. May be in northern dialect of Aramaic language it is like Jowhanna Jowseph, and Mesrop did not want to transliterate it as Jouhanna because it will be like oo in English

May be I am wrong,

May be it is an orthographic rule that Aramaic ow or o should be translated ov (vo+vev) in Armenian.

We have such a names like Iscarovt, Nebrovth, Ovsanna, Movses, Jovseph, Jovacim, Erichov (Yericov) in arabic the name is Ariha, and the western town name Hrovm instead of Hrom or Rome, it seems to me this city’s name is translated from the Aramaic source.

If you notice we the Armenians, rarely call Hovsep, or Movses or Yenovk (Enoch), we call Hosep, Yenok, and Moses.

In Armenian the hiun doesn't gives the sound w as in English because the hiun is Kisadzayn.

Humbly (not khumbel) I write and I well know that (lezouabacan) the linguistic knowledge of mine is nothing.

There is a rule that Aramaic loan words in Armenian should end with j like shoucaj, mananaj, Abeghaj, tzntzghaj, but not kahana.

It is the same case in northern Arabic dialect of my city. It is chantaj (handbag) instead of chanta. chocolataj instead of chocolata. Baqqaj (mosquita, the female) instead of baqqa and so on.

And when our Mesrob translated those foreign names into Armenian from the Greek exemplar of holy bible, he tried to collect between the Aramaic articulation and the Greek articulation with ending es. It is our fate or mission, to harmonize the east with west, to harmonize the Asian (the Middle Eastern) culture with the European culture.

Why the Latin's have chosen to pronounce it as O just as Yousef ends up as Joseph, and once again retains the V sound as in HoVsep

 

May be the ancient Semitic name was really Joseph or something like Jowseph.

I think that we should keep this as a tradition.

 

.Is it not time that we the so called western Armenians spyurkahays clean our house before we attack that horrible Abeghian garbage? It may too late for some of us, but is it not time that Diaspora start teaching our children correct pronunciation?

 

I think that there is no future for the both western or eastern armenian language in diaspora.

But for all that, we must do something.

sharounakeli

[Arpa]

Dear Johannes,

I don’t know Aramaic either. I used to know Arabic as it seems you also do. The first language I forgot was Arabic, even if I can still read and understand I cannot speak in the real sense. I use “Aramaic” to avoid using “Arabic” or “Hebrew” as both of those languages are at least 50% Aramaic. Let’s see if you can desicipeher these Aramaic sentences from the Bible. When Jesus spoke: “Dalita qoumi”. Btw dalita simply means “girl/maiden”. Or His last words on the cross: “Eli, Eli lama sabaktani”.

As to the Hyun . Can you read UnicodeAM?

Even though you profess to be “khumbel” :), you seem to know quite a bit about the subject, and your knowledge of Arabic will prove to be useful.

There is a whole thread , here;

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10060

In essence what is being said there is that the Hyun was never meant to sound as Vev. The Hyun was devised by Mashtots to be equivalent to the Latin U. Just as in the Latin, it was meant to be used as a diphthong with Ayb to produce the sound of O. I’m sure you know the history of the letters O and Fe, and in diphthongs jointly with Vo to produce the sound of OU, just like in the Latin/English. However in time, after we imporetdthe letter O the archaic diphthong of AU/AybHyun fell in disuse, and with influence of Persian and Turkish , neither of whom have the W sound, the Hyun, that was meant to sound like the Enlish W , specially at the end of a word ended to sound like V. I hate to into Turkish linguistics but I am sure you how the Arabic “wow” ends up as V in both of those languages.. As the W sound at the end. Consider such Armenian words like “hau/bird/avian” and kou/kow/cow.. Yes “kov” was meant to sound the English “cow” but when the Hyun ended as V now we know that animal as “kov”, since if we were to write the name of that animal as “kou” now that that letter is but known as Vev it will be mistaken with “kou/կու“.

Why do write “house” and pronounce it as “hows”? Why do we write Աւտո, an exact transliteration from the Latin “Auto” and read it as “avto”, the reason why in Yerevan they spell it as (phonetically) ավտո. Աւտո is supposed to be read as “oto”. Remember we used Ayb-Hyun to sound like O until we actually adopted the latter letter?

As always we have had the like Mashtots who build and those like Abeghian who destroy.

As to Youhanna , let me repeat what I said.. When transliterated it into Armenian as ՅոՒհանննէսit was meant to be pronounced as Youhannes, and when the Hyun stopped being the counterpart of the Latin U it ended as ՀոՎհաննէս/HoVhannesղ

A s to the Hee ending of words from the Assyrian, those words that ended with the “Y” at the end like “abeghaY” end with the Hee and those which did not , like Kahana don’t take a Hee.

PS, Dear Johannes, please don't be discouraed as half the forumers can't read the Mesropian script and even more give a damn about our language when they think basturma and dolma are our national dishes. And those who give a damn are still debating as to which is the correct one "trkahayeren" or "rusahayeren". Read my signature below. In the words Paruyr Sevak; "Hayastan" barits pokvetsin @nkan,"Russa"n ou "Tajka"n...

I will explain if necessary. It is taken from that inimitable masterpiece “Anlreli Zangakatatun” by our immortal prophet Paruyr Sevak.

Edited August 7, 2006 by Arpa

[Johannes]

You brought up the issue of the government being the keeper of the language, just as during the times of Mesrop and Sahac. Does that mean we need “language Police”?

We need the policy of the science, the policy of the academicians, and the policy of brains.

If I own a workshop or any business or any establishment in Armenia, I shall not call it Sevan or Ararat or Van or any other famous Armenian historical places names, but I shall call it Tuaratzatap or Korchayk or Salno Dzor those forgotten names of our homeland. The name New York will not make the taste of the pizzas more delicious, but my hardworking and tracking can make the prestige of my workshop name good although it is Spaghank for example.

Tourists do not visit Armenia to see Nuevo York, but to see Armenia. They go to China to see Chinese writings and China generally. The problem Is that the Armenian people is not enough prideful as the Georgians (Vratsiq) or the Hellenes are.

 

Let’s see if you can desicipeher these Aramaic sentences from the Bible.

 

Aramaic (Asoreren) language is too close to Arabic. Jews forgot their own language the Hebrew language (Ebrajeren) long time ago, before Jesus Christ (it was in use only in the in temples).

Aramaic is not Assyrian (Asorestantsiner, Ashuri), Assyrians and their language is very old in comparing with the Aramians (ancient Syrians) and their language the Aramaic (Syriani, Syriac, Asoreren).

I guess that between all Semitic languages, the Aramaic language is the nearest to the Arabic language.

 

As to the Hyun. Can you read UnicodeAM?

Yes I do.

 

As to Youhanna, let me repeat what I said... When transliterated it into Armenian as ՅոՒհանննէսit was meant to be pronounced as Youhannes, and when the Hyun stopped being the counterpart of the Latin U it ended as ՀոՎհաննէս/HoVhannesղ

Do you mean that the name first translated as Youhanna\Youhannes? I don’t think that. The Aramian name is not Youhanna, it is Yohanna, Yoseph, Mose, and so on. Our uncle Mesrob created the Armenian alphabet then without any interweaving from any Abeghian he transliterated the names of Avetaran.

We have Lucas and Jesu. The first in Armenian Ghoukas and the second Jesu\ Hesou. That means that in The Aramaic language separately there were the letters O as in mOnastery & U (oo) as in Google.

Don’t Anger from me, if I make mistakes.

If I understood you about the samples that you showed me above, about the auto and the cow, I think that those are different cases.

But in Italian, how the name Johannes turns into Giovanni instead of Giohanni ?

Skhalelu iravounqov `

Johannes

[Johannes]

Bareu

[Arpa]

Bareu

Dear Johannes, this is my second appeal.

Could you please air your posts in text form rather than as attachement. Maybe I am a cyber-idiot but it takes me incredible acrobatical contortions to read your "thumb-nails", very low resoltion, and impossible to respond in context.

I am not a "cyber-geek" and I cannot find a way to respond line by line.

I don't know what system you are using. I also compose outside, MSWorks. It should be as simple as "copy and paste".

Until then I withthold my comments.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Arpa

[Johannes]

Կուզեմ հայերէն գրել

[Arpa]

Կուզեմ հայերէն գրել

Այո, խնդրեմ Յուաննէս Հայերէն գրէ.

It is unfortunate that we are taking about Armenian language and using foreign languages, yet we must be circumspect and acknowlede that there are many here who cannot read Armenian and many others who understand very little. Our aim is to learn as well as to teach. We should not deny those who can't read ArmText from participatin.

Once aain, dear Johannes, it is obvious that you have the means to write Armenian on this forum, could you please post your articles in text form?

Thank you.

I’m sorry for having diverted our attention. We were talking about the letter O and the Armenian letter Hyun and could not help but bring Aramaic and Arabic into the debate. Comparing Armenian with those Semitic languages is tantamount to comparing apples and oranges, or shall I say- apricots and dates?

My point in bringing them was to show that those other languages have insufficient characters compared to the Mesropian one. Most importantly insufficient vowels, and I am sure you that the Arabic “wow” is pronounced both as O and OO depending on the context not to mention that in those languages that don’t have the W sound, like Persian and (Ottoman)Turkish the same “wow” is pronounced as V. You say that Aramaic had both the O and OO. I have not seen it. Btw, one can google(gogle?) and see Aramaic and Arabic alphabets on the net.

Simiarly Urartian is one of those languages that has limited number of vowels, the reason why the jury is still out to decide whether they should be named Urartians, Arartians, Ururtians or Araratians.

Please read my post ՈՒՐԱՐՏԵՐԷՆ in the language section. And then we will come to discussing Armenian orthography once I find a n easy way to read your attachments.

I will not write about Aramaic/Arabic anymore. Let us concentrate on our problems.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Arpa

[Johannes]

Յարգելի Արփա՝

Քսան տարի առաջ, դասընկերոջս ըսի «մենք Տիգրան անունը պէտք է Tigran ձեւով հնչենք»։ Ընկերս ծիծաղեցաւ, սակայն այժմ ան եւ ուրիշները սկսան հասկնալ եւ տրամաբանել։

Յառաջնթաց կայ, մանաւանդ Հայաստանի անկախութեան շնորհիւ եւ հայկական հեռատեսիլի սփռումներէն ետք։ Աւ-ի Օ վերածումը անտեղի էր ընդհանրապէս եւ անպէտք։ Ինչ կը պակսէր մեզնէ եթէ Օ երբէք չի ստեղծէինք։ Անոնք որոնք, աւ-ը պիտի հնչէին ո-ի պէս. թող հնչէին, իսկ անոնք, որոնք աւ-ը աւանդական ձեւով. այսինքն աու-ի պէս պիտի հնչէին թող հնչէին, բայց ուղղագրութիւնը թող մնար նոյնը։ Օրինակ գաղղիացիք AU կը հնչէն O-ի պէս Gauloises, իսկ գերմանացիք AW-ի պէս օրինակ՝ Bauer Բաուէր։ Օճառ-աւճառ, կօշիկ, կաւշիկ, Մաւրիկ, Մօրիկ եւայլք հասկնալի են, սակայն անհասկանալի մնացին ինձի համար ակնարկներդ, ՈՒ-ի եւ Վեւ-ի մասին։ Ըսել կ՝ուզես, որ մեք (Վ) հնչիւնը Venezia-ի պէս եւ (ՈՒ) հնչիւնը Ursula-ի պէս, երբէք չ՞ենք ունեցած։

 

We call the cow "kov" and the bird "hav". Never mind the soviet orthography but these words were originally meant to be written as "kou" and "hau" respectively.

 

Չ՝հասկացայ ինչ կապ ունի, կովը հաւի հետ, ուրիշ խօսքով, կովի Վեւը հաՒի հիւնի հետ։ Չէ որ իւրաքանչիւրը առանձին աղբիւրէ ջուր կը խմէն։ Հաւը այո՝ մեր նախահայրերը հաու կը հնչէին, եւ այդ կարօտախտէն հալումաշ դարձած Հ1-ի գեղանի խօսնակուհիները անգլիացիներու չ՝հնչած աու-ն այնքան կ՝երկարէն, որ …։ շոուուու բիզնես, բիզնես շոուուու եւայլն։ Ես կը կարծեմ, որ անգլերը Show-ն կ՝արտասանեն պարզապէս շո։ Գալով տաւարաբուծութեան, Այրարատի թէ Տուրուբերանի (արդարեւ ձեռքիս տակ չկան, ոչ լեզուաբանական եւ ոչ ալ հայագիտական հրատարակութիւն, ինչ որ կ՝ըսեմ միտքիս ապաւինելով է, որ կ՝ըսեմ) Տաւարածատափ եւ Կոգովիտ գաւառները հռչակաւոր էին կարագի արտադրութեամբ, լեզուաբանները մեկնաբանած են այսպէս. կոգիհովիտ-կոգովիտ։ Հայերէնով կոգի կարագ կը նշանակէ եւ հաւանաբար սերած է կոգ բառէն, որ կովի հոմանիշն ըլլալու է։ Ուրեմն մեր հնդեւրոպացի նախահայրերը, հնդեւրոպական նախալեզուէն երկու բառ բերած են իրենց հետ. Կով եւ կոգ։ Գիմը եւ Վեւը զիրար փոխարինած են բազմիցս. օրինակ Գարուն (հայերէնով) Վարունա (Սանսկրիտով, որ գետի անուն է), Գործ (հայերէնով) work (անգլերէնով) werke (գերմաներէնով եւ վերկէ արտասանութեամբ)։ Կը կարծեմ, որ անգլերէնով կովին cow արտասանութիւնը պատճառ չի կրնար ըլլալ, որ բոլոր հնդեւրոպացիք սկիզբէն Վեւ հնչինը ունեցած չ՝ըլլան։ Կը կարծեմ, որ սա պարագան պարսիկի կամ թուրքի ազդեցութիւն չէ, այլ սկիզբէն այսպէս եղած է։

Նկատենք, որ Լատիներէն Avgvstvs (Augustus) անունը մեր նախահայրք Աւգոստոս (Օգոստոս) ձեւով տառադարձած են, ուրեմն լատինական V (U) տառը միշտ չէ, որ ՈՒ-է հայերէնով, այլ նայած որ լեզուէն կը տառադարձուի անունը, կամ ալ այդ ընթացքին յունարէնը միջամտած է։

Յարգելի Արփա՝

Ընդհանրապէս համակարծիք եմ քեզի, ինչ կը վերաբերի առասպելը իրականին հետ շփոթելու խնդրին եւ մղոն մը հասակով բառեր գործածելնուս։

Օրինակ. փոխանակ ըսելու գիտնական, կրնանք ըսել գիտուն, կարճ եւ հին բառ մը։ Ական ածանցի գործածումը պարսկական ազդեցութեան հետեւանք է։ Չ՝մոռնանք, որ մեր թագաւորներէն, նախարարներէն շատեր, նոյնիսկ Լուսաւորիչը՝ պարթեւներ (Արիք) եղած են։

I will not write about Aramaic/Arabic anymore. Let us concentrate on our problems.

Ամբողջովին համաձայն եմ

Թոյլ տուր ասելու, որ անհատապէս այնքան ալ հիացած չեմ անգլերէնով եւ շատ այլանդակուած եւ անցեալի ձայները կորուսած լեզու մ՝է. օրինակ.-Laughs լաֆս, enough ինաֆ, ought to օտ տու, right ռայտ։

[Johannes]

It is well known that Urartian script is not Indo-European; it is more like Semitic, as the Assyrian, Aramaic, Arabic and Hebrew.

If you aim the the urartian clerkship (scribing) it is Assyrian or Acadian, but not Aramaic or Hebrew.

Why do we call our Homeland the Araratian Highlands, yet we call our predecessors Urartians. The Bible refers to our lands as Ararat. Is it because they had heard the “urartians” call themselves so? Or, is it that Hebrew being one of those deficient Semitic scripts, once again fooled us by substituting A with OU and visa versa?

Dear Arpa It is dangerous topic, but I thank you because I think the fact and the science are more important than the myths.

Allow me tell you that Urartians are not Semitic people.

The name is Urartu or Urashtu in Acadian and in Hebrew it is Ararat.

Solomon - Suleiman, Abraham - Ibrahim this happens with better nations its no problem.

Hayil-Hoyil (to watch) Kertham-Keythom (I am going).

I think that the Urartian language belongs to the Hurrian family, Khurri, Harri, Harry. Did you ever heard about Mittany. The great Hurri Empire before the Semitic Peoples had arrived to Mesopotamia.

In Christian Arabic dialect we have the name Khoury, which means priest. Don't you ever think that that name before Christianity could mean also priest but not a Christian priest, a pagan priest?

I guess that after the arrival of other ethnic groups the hurrians began to work in astrology and bewitchment.

Around Lake Van there were famous Armenian dynasty Khorkhorrouniq (Khor-Khorr+ouniq) we can clarify this name as Khorrianq (the Khorrians or the Hurrians).

We have a term "Khor achkov mi nayir indz" (Don’t look at me angrily)

Or "Kheth (Hitits, Khets) achkov mi nayir Indz".

As I said you forgot the name Urashtu as another announcement of Urartu.

Did you ever heard about the Rshtouniq region south of Lake Van and the famous Armenian Dynasty of Rshtouni? Like the prince Theodoros Rshtouni who was the governor (Hayots sparapet) of Armenia during Omayyan Caliphate mandate, or Johannes Di Armani his right hand.

Of course you heard and you are our teacher here in Hye forum (zroutsaran).

Academicians clarified the name Rshtouni. It is the same as Urashtu, with additament "ouni" suffix.

Many times I read about Vrshiks (vrrshikner) in Armenian Literature, for example in the writings of Ruben Ter Minassian. Finally I found about them in an Armenian-Armenian dictionary.

It is the name which is given from other Armenian to the Armenian population who lives in the southern mountains of Lake Van.

Urashtu>Vrashtu>Vrshtu>Vrshtik and finally Vrshik.

Now you may ask who the original people of urartu are.

We are the Armenian people. You may ask, why? In the next time I shall try to answer.

Johannes