Et Tu Brute?

[Arpa]

Editorial: I will post this under the subject topic of National, as I hate to visit that most shameful era of our history, "Genocide". Why do we still have a subject topic of "Genocide"? Is it not time to amend it and call it "turkocide"? What and who are we afraid and sahamed of? We did it at Khojali. We did it at Shushi. We did it at Aghdam. Next to follow... watch out Mehmet!... Ani and Ararat!

 

Et Tu Brute?

The famous last words of Julius Caesar before he succumbed to the stabbing by his own son Brutus.

Why is it deemed a crime, punishable by extermination to stand for one’s right, country and nation?

It is time we also stand up and “tell it like it is”. It is time to get out of that “innocent victim” mode and speak the truth, as the truth is on our side.

 

THE ARMENIAN AMBASSADOR TO ITALY ARGUES AGAINST ITALIAN HISTORIAN

 

YEREVAN, NOVEMBER 18. ARMINFO. "Corriere della Sera", An Italian

newspaper published the article of a historian Sergio Romano, entitled

"The Jewish Genocide and the Armenian Massacre: Two Different

Things". According to the State Commission for Organization of Events

on Armenian Genocide, the publication appeared as an answer to a

question of a "Corriere della Sera" reader, "Is the Genocide of 1,5

million Armenians a satisfactory reason to prevent Turkey's membership

in the EU, while Germany is accepted in spite of the murder of 6

million Jews?"

 

Sergio Romano, the author of the article, tried to distinguish the

Turkish and German crimes against humanity: "the Jews did not pose a

threat against the German State, whereas the Armenian national

liberation movement menaced the existence of the Ottoman Empire".

 

Mr. Romano, a famous Italian historian lectured History of

International Relations at a number of universities in Italy and

Europe. In 1985-1989 he was appointed the Ambassador Extraordinary and

Plenipotentiary of Italy to Russia. In his letter, addressed to

"Corriere della Sera", Ruben Shugarian, the Armenian Ambassador to

Italy, stated that classifying crimes against mankind as "unjustified"

and "justified" is very dangerous. The only difference between the two

crimes is that Germany has accepted the responsibility for the crime

committed and that Turkey still persists and denies the fact.

Nobody likes a crying baby, except maybe its mother.

Is it not time to stop crying and start speaking with legible, logical and historically relevant words?

Everybody and their cousins, including us have been juxtaposing the Holocaust and the Genocide and finding faults. The former and the latter may be comparable in the fact that a helpless and unarmed, disenfranchised “loyal” citizen was led in droves, at the end of a single musket, to their “death camps”. The similarity ends there.

You be the judge. You enumerate the dissimilarities. I will cite only one; We were in our millennial old ancestral lands. We were not aliens. They were the murderous aliens. STOP!

Why is it deemed a crime to stand up for one’s own right and homeland?

It was not a crime when we stood up to the Assyrians (Haik and Bel, Ara and Shamiram…) and repelled them

It was not a crime when we stood up to the Romans and repelled them.

It was not a crime when we stood up to the Persians and repelled them.

It was not a crime to stand up and repel the Arabs.

It was not a crime when we threw out the Byzantines.

Then, why all of a sudden it is considered a crime, punishable by a genocide to stand up and try and repel the occupying Ottomans???

To borrow a prevailing buzz-word- JIHAD, which by the way, contrary to the loose translation does not mean “HOLY WAR”, it simply means “struggle/ՊԱՅՔԱՐ”.

Why is some peoples’ jihad/struggle considered holy and ours’ is labeled a “crime” punishable by extermination??

The Kosovar’s struggle is praised. The Bosnians’ struggle is romanticized. The Palestinians’ is legitimized. You can add ad-lib.

And now! All of a sudden, after we struggled and repelled all of the above uninvited and illegal invaders our latest struggle is being labeled as “crime against the state”.

Whose state??

At this threshold of the American “feast of the turkey” let us be frank and “talk turkey”.

We have the RIGHT to RISE and struggle against all invaders of our ancestral homeland, even if it takes a stupor of 500 years. The Ottomans were and still are Invaders and we all the right to RISE and STRUGGLE.

 

LET NOBODY SHAME US, even if it is BRUTUS, a son of Julius Caesar. Even if his name may be Romano(Ben Moshe), he may have an Italian sounding surname of Romano not unlike many Armenians known as Istanboulian. Is he really an ethnic Christian Cathollic Italian, or what the Italians call as "giudeo"{read Judeo}?) a COW RUMINO!

(What is the religious affiliation of that hireling, and who is paying for his vacations at the Lido anyway. Does he have a bank account at Ankara or Tel Aviv?)

In conclusion

We drove out all the above mentioned invaders and we will drive out the latter day invaders, whether their names begin with the letters Tu or Az.

We have endured and survived 4000 years.

What is a few hundred years??

Our ethnicity and nationhood is well defined.

What is their’s???

And!! Italians or whatever the hell you are [b}PLEASE BUTT(Brutus) THE F*** OUT!!![/b]

Edited November 19, 2005 by Arpa

[gamavor]

LET NOBODY SHAME US, even if it is BRUTUS, a son of Julius Caesar. Even if his name may be Romano(Ben Moshe), he may have an Italian sounding surname of Romano not unlike many Armenians known as Istanboulian. Is he really an ethnic Christian Cathollic Italian, or what the Italians call as "giudeo"{read Judeo}?) a COW RUMINO!

 

Arpa, that's a timely explanation, given the latest nightly polution on the part of Italians (in this case one Italian). I don't give a shit if more follow suit. Phuck them too!

 

THE ARMENIAN AMBASSADOR TO ITALY ARGUES AGAINST ITALIAN HISTORIAN

 

YEREVAN, NOVEMBER 18. ARMINFO. "Corriere della Sera", An Italian

newspaper published the article of a historian Sergio Romano, entitled

"The Jewish Genocide and the Armenian Massacre: Two Different

Things". According to the State Commission for Organization of Events

on Armenian Genocide, the publication appeared as an answer to a

question of a "Corriere della Sera" reader, "Is the Genocide of 1,5

million Armenians a satisfactory reason to prevent Turkey's membership

in the EU, while Germany is accepted in spite of the murder of 6

million Jews?"

 

Sergio Romano, the author of the article, tried to distinguish the

Turkish and German crimes against humanity: "the Jews did not pose a

threat against the German State, whereas the Armenian national

liberation movement menaced the existence of the Ottoman Empire".

 

Mr. Romano, a famous Italian historian lectured History of

International Relations at a number of universities in Italy and

Europe. In 1985-1989 he was appointed the Ambassador Extraordinary and

Plenipotentiary of Italy to Russia. In his letter, addressed to

"Corriere della Sera", Ruben Shugarian, the Armenian Ambassador to

Italy, stated that classifying crimes against mankind as "unjustified"

and "justified" is very dangerous. The only difference between the two

crimes is that Germany has accepted the responsibility for the crime

committed and that Turkey still persists and denies the fact.

 

PS: Just for the record! Christians in the Ottoman Empire were banned from possesing weapons. How the hell Armenians (who for the most part were a minority) possed a treat to the Turks? What kind of history is that that Westerners are teaching their children?

[DominO123]

PS: Just for the record! Christians in the Ottoman Empire were banned from possesing weapons. How the hell Armenians (who for the most part were a minority) possed a treat to the Turks? What kind of history is that that Westerners are teaching their children?

 

Armenians posed a threat for the Turks, much like the Jews and minorities posed a threat for the Germans. In every genocides the victims in some way or another poses a threat for the agressor. Be it a threat to the social structure, the system etc. Anyone comparing war crimes on this basis have no clue of what they are talking about, because posing a threat against one group of the population is one of the elements that we can find in any genocides.

 

A group of people do not exterminate another, if they do not percieve a threat comming from the group targeted.

[DominO123]

Turkish Press Review -- Tue, 06 Jul 99

ITALIAN JOURNALIST SEES THE REALITY

 

Sergio Romano, an Italian journalist and a former Ambassador, stressed

that the European left had made a mistake by targetting Turkey.

Romano, who had worked at the Italian Embassies in London, Vienna and

Moscow, wrote an article in the Italian 'Liberal' newspaper and

reaffirmed that now peace has been attained in Kosovo, Europe is

trying to draw similarities between the policies pursued by the

Yugoslav Head of State, Slobodan Milosevic, and by Turkey. He further

said: "The extraordinary success of Turks following the First World

War is regarded even today as a wonderful achievement in today's

European historical pages"; Romano also praised the founder of the

Republic of Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. He added that Turkey was an

exemplary country and had been subject to many plots by foreign

countries. Romano concluded that Turkey would not allow the

establishment of a separate region on her territory. /Hurriyet/

[DominO123]

Turkish Press Review -- Mon, 12 Jul 99

A NARROW-MINDED POLITICIAN WOUNDING FRIENDSHIP -BY TUFAN TURENC (HURRIYET)

 

...

 

...One of the leading historians in Italy,

former Ambassador Sergio Romano, in an interview he gave to

"L'Espresso" magazine cautions his friends and states that it would be

an injustice to view the Kurdish crisis as equivalent to the Kosovo

crisis. "Milosevic's destruction of the ethnic balance of mozaic

created by Tito in Yugoslavia is something else. The present state of

Kosovo is an end result of mistaken European policies... In Turkey the

situation is rather different...Kurds and Turks are living together

and 25% of the Turkish Parliament is of Kurdish descent. The

operations in the Southeast are directed against the separatist Kurds.

Romano stressed that the PKK and Ocalan, engaged in separatist

activities in Southeastern Anatolia were not totally blameless and

added that those who were silent in the face of the Kosovo crisis were

shouting for the Kurdish problem from the roof-tops, especially the

New Communist Party... "If the Italians and the Europeans want to help

the Kurds they have to improve their relations with Turkey. They have

to open up the door Kohl had shut in the face of the Turks and let

them know that their future lies in Europe. These kinds of approaches

will be more constructive, instead of reactions and threats", Romano

said. This hostile stance of Italy is adopted by almost all European

countries even if it is not so clearly expressed. They are all

defending the terrorist Ocalan. They are zooming in on some democratic

weaknesses in Turkey, which we already know and accept. Thus, they are

hiding the violations of democracy within their own systems. For

example, it has been stated that in England, from last April to this

April, 65 people died while in custody. Police officials found this

situation grave and stated that to regain the trust of the people in

the police, a stop must be put to deaths while in custody."

[Eloren]

Someone shoot this guy please?

[Z'areh]

...One of the leading historians in Italy,

former Ambassador Sergio Romano...etc....

 

 

 

Everytime I read the opinions of such personalities, I cannot help but regard them as a defeat of Armenian diplomacy/creativity/genious-hanjar/pro-activity/preparedness/and finally overconfidence. I regard this as us letting this happen and prescribing it to our weakness.

 

A leading historian in Italy is not convinced of what we are saying....or should have been saying. Could it be that our approach is not effective?

[gamavor]

It has nothing to do with history. It is about politics.

[Eloren]

Yep, nothing to do with History...

 

Turkey is economically and strategicaly more interesting than Armenia for those guys.. so of course they'll try to please them...

[Z'areh]

It has nothing to do with history. It is about politics.

 

I agree, it also means we are not aggressive enough and not playing the game correctly.

[Eloren]

I agree, it also means we are not aggressive enough and not playing the game correctly.

 

 

Yep,

 

The problem is that armenians spend there time weeping, crying...

Pity Does not work anymore, We should be firm, agressive and stop crying.

[DominO123]

...One of the leading historians in Italy,

former Ambassador Sergio Romano...etc....

Everytime I read the opinions of such personalities, I cannot help but regard them as a defeat of Armenian diplomacy/creativity/genious-hanjar/pro-activity/preparedness/and finally overconfidence. I regard this as us letting this happen and prescribing it to our weakness.

 

A leading historian in Italy is not convinced of what we are saying....or should have been saying. Could it be that our approach is not effective?

 

Zareh, did you read the two articles from Turkish Press Review I've posted above? The guys denial of the genocide is not the only "pro-Turkey" thing he's done so far. So I won't qualify this as an Armenian defeat, but rather someone supporting Turkeys thesis in every possible "controversial" issues.

Edited November 23, 2005 by QueBeceR

[Z'areh]

Zareh, did you read the two articles from Turkish Press Review I've posted above? The guys denial of the genocide is not the only "pro-Turkey" thing he's done so far. So I won't qualify this as an Armenian defeat, but rather someone supporting Turkeys thesis in every possible "controversial" issues.

 

Yes i read the articles Domino, and yes this could be yet another case of someone supporting Turkey's thesis, as everybody has the right to do that, but my point is that we seem unable to create a condition where the rights of those who support Turkey are matched with the rights of Armenian demands. We are unable, it seems, to prevent such outcomes, therefore a writer who feels the need to discuss the role that Turkey can play in present political reality can easily feel free to dismiss Armenians' concerns and demands.

 

That is weakness on our part and the end result ultimately is defeat.