Armen Posted March 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 (edited) Armen jan i can see haw SIl by him self can do %50 of that 5m style_images/master/snapback.png Movese jan, I don't think Khachatour Sukiasyan sends money home from UAE by wire transefers or buys stuff from Armenia by wire transfers. Although, as I said it would not be bad to check what are those wire transfers exactly. Edited March 19, 2005 by Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 it's a wire transfers you knwo who send the $$$$ and you can know who gat the $$$ Sukyasyan ??? Sil@ g@rzoyin@ chi "Silachu t@gherq" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted March 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Movses, et Khachatur Sukiasiane henc Grzon a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Here is a site in Armenian: www.antitrafficking.am. It seems to be having troubles currently but I was told by the creators that it'll be ok soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted March 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 It seems to be having troubles currently but I was told by the creators that it'll be ok soon. style_images/master/snapback.png How symbolic, the site is doing just like the notion of antitrafficking in Armenia: having troubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitelotus Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 (edited) How are the woman viewed before being 'ordered' for prostitution? What's the method being used. Edited March 19, 2005 by whitelotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 just did a search on Google for _ woman viewed before being 'ordered' for prostitution_ http://www.google.com/search?client=firefo...G=Google+Search hmmmm - sims like Armenians are not the only one from behind the Iron Curtain who has a such problem http://www.stopvaw.org/30Sep20044.html http://www.aliran.com/charter/monitors/200...d-kingpins.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitelotus Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Thanks Mos jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AraManoogian Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 just did a search on Google for _ woman viewed before being 'ordered' for prostitution_ http://www.google.com/search?client=firefo...G=Google+Search hmmmm - sims like Armenians are not the only one from behind the Iron Curtain who has a such problem http://www.stopvaw.org/30Sep20044.html http://www.aliran.com/charter/monitors/200...d-kingpins.html style_images/master/snapback.png It seems that Bulgaria and Armenia have a lot in common. Other than trafficking, the people here in Armenia, as well in Bulgaria, for the most part believe that the victims knew what they were getting into when they left and became “prostitutes”. Since my return from Dubai and news of our work coming out, I’ve had heated arguments with quite a few individuals who keep saying that the girls we spoke to are lying to us and our figure of 80% tricked and 20% being volunteers is not accurate. This is coming from people who have never met, let alone talked face to face with a trafficking victim and don’t have a shred of evidence to support their claims. The reality is and like the story titled “Bulgarian Trafficking Victims Face Hard Homecoming” (see: http://www.stopvaw.org/30Sep20044.html), most trafficking victims were hoping for a kind of Cinderella Dream, or at most a legitimate job and in the end were enslaved into working as prostitutes. It seems that not only will our work in bringing back and rehabilitating the victims be hard, but even more difficult will be teaching the general public that victims are victims and for all of us to heal, we have treat the victims with the same respect we treat any other living being. Any ideas on how we can change this way of thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted March 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Hello Ara, Wanted to welcome you and then noticed you have been a member for quite some times already! While agreeing with what you said about the social attitude towards the victims I wanted to emphacise the importance of the high level of unemployment, which in my opinion is the most important problem to solve and must be prioritised in the context of fight against trafficking. I am more than sure that if the "shadow economy" factor is decreased (it was covered in Hetq's articles I referenced a couple of posts back) and the monopolies are regulated the unemployment will go down significantly. If this problem is not solved there will always be an new incoming group of girls who will go for it because at some point lost their hope, husband or bread winner ... they simply want to leave a little better or, in most cases, make some money to feed their children or parents. Surely, the the psychological damage control and rehabilitation are very important in their turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 One of the solutions that might work is not letting any Girl under age of 19~20 go out of Armenia – unless the parents are with them.. a collateral in a form of asset should be given to government –like house or property. Girls should have special visa - and the party who will accept/invite them in USA – Canada – Japan or EUA - most present string of legal documents and “bond” or collateral - if the girl is not returned to Armenian in the time set on her visa then parents & the inviting party will be responsible, unless legal document is presented to officials that the girl has been marred - documents & photos & video of the wedding to be presented - - same if attending school or university…. and even if it’s presented - to keep the case open for ~2 or 3 years – If the girl returns to Armenia and clime is made by her that she was sold to slavery – or she was a victim of prostitution – than not only the inviting party but also the parents of the girl will be responsible. Government of Armenia should use the $$$$ of the bond & the assets from collateral’s to help the girl – pay for her treatments. But treatments & basic necessities only ( including food & medicine ) no $$$ most be given to girl…. I know this opens a new revenue for some corrupted government employee$ – but it just might work - and no parent can ever say that he or she did not know that she was going to work as an prostitute. - Now if a Victim has returned to Armenia and is seeking help – if her family or the society will not accept them – what can be don to help ~ hmmmm Relocate them – gave them a new start after treatments, job training…… and use some of the $$ ( if any left ) from assets – for new housing - wich will be her own if she stays ther for 10 yeras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 another thing is to raise the awairness among the public that such things happen... people need to approach to "great career opportunities" in abroad with scepticism... but of course, i don't want to divert from the root causes of this phenomenon, which are high unemployement and government indifference to the issue (or should i say their involvement in this)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 It seems to be having troubles currently but I was told by the creators that it'll be ok soon. How symbolic, the site is doing just like the notion of antitrafficking in Armenia: having troubles. The web-site is fine, I just checked it. The videos are the best!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted March 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 The web-site is fine, I just checked it. The videos are the best!!! style_images/master/snapback.png Yup, it works now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AraManoogian Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Here is another question. What can the Diaspora do to prevent trafficking and to be part of the overall solution? I know this is a loaded question, but it has to be asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 parents need to take the first step - and stop Selling kids a TV progrram was just on H1 - some of the parentsget up to 4 to $5,000 up front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted March 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Here is another question. What can the Diaspora do to prevent trafficking and to be part of the overall solution? I know this is a loaded question, but it has to be asked. style_images/master/snapback.png I think first of all the Diaspora has to take an uncompromising position on the issues of shadow economy, corruption etc. and enforce the government to show some real results of reforms. Armenia registers a 12% growth for some 3 years already if I am not mistaken. This growth has no impact on the general population whatsoever. How come? Because Armenia is in difficult geopolitical situation, the Diaspora overlooks the governmets faults. But this is a vicious circle. If the economy is not developed Armenia will always be in difficult geopolitical situation. The only way to get out of this is to have a very low rate of unemployment and happy population so that no one leaves the country. Prevention (or rather, decrease) of trafficking in a democratic country is achieved by economic development. As far as I see the study revealed the valunerable part of population. For example in the villages people do not have loans to develop the crops and men leave to find job and never come back and at some point their wives, sisters etc. go to find work and end up in Emirates. I know there are programs to help develop small and medium business that use diasporan money but as far as I can see they are not working or they are wokring slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 "the lack of money is the ruts of all evil" once someone wise said, although this reality reflects small percentage of population in ROA nerveless very painful realty and needs attention, thus Diaspora with all its power could make a deference if differences are put aside, this has been my call for ages now, we need “apricot"? revolution and peace, most of all, I don’t have to guess and I can say for sure #1 question that preoccupies publics mind is uncertainty of the future, Karakach in particular, now days ROA depends heavily for her security on Russia, but winds might change and they do change, a cooperative and equally vigilant movement both abroad and in ROA will eventually bring solution and stability to the country, wile Diaspora is spending great deal of her power in recognition of AG, there is an argent need for this and similar problems which is caused mainly lack of economical and social development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted March 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Edward, while I agree with some of your point I think there are some very powerful diaspora organisation that can influence the government as far as corrpution and shadow economy are concerned. The Russian influence has is not the significant factor here. Although dispora is preoccupied with the Genocide issue, there are many programs being implemented in Armenia that use diaspora money. It would not be bad to finance this programs on "conditionallity" basis. Bring more disporan people to govern that money. One very good example are Kerkorian's projects. Would it be wrong if he conditioned his assistence with real results from the reforms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 perhaps and it might be to late, for most who take an observatory position, after what we had dreamed for many centuries is gone could/might say, I wish I was more involved in matters like this, this and similar events/realities will eventually decay and bring closure to "this small unimportant people" never in our history has been more crucial times then today. PS, I wont be suprised if someone even here asked me, "what have you done"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted March 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Edward, it is not a matter of individuals when it comes to the diasporan position. It should be the big organisations like AGBU or Assembly that should ciritcise. They do it through their media outlets but lightly. Moreover, some of the bigest diasporan contributors have demonstrated that their programs in Armenia are conditioned not by the actual results they see but by this or that political affiliation they have in Armenia's government. Some of them stopped their programs when the government changed, while others started because of the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 (edited) Armen jan are you sure that we ( Armenia ) has nothing that Emirates can import ??? so all we Armenians can offer to Emirates is our kids ??? for sex ??? style_images/master/snapback.png I've heard that many Armenian Citizens work in the Arab Emirates. At least some of the $9M may be wire transfers to the family who stayed in Armenia! hmmmm - sims like Armenians are not the only one from behind the Iron Curtain who has a such problem style_images/master/snapback.png Ukrainians, Poles and Russians seem to be on top of the list! It is a shame to see humans forced to sell what is intimate and compromise their integrity; but, unfortunately, that is an integral part of a Nation that is struggling for a better economic future. One cannot expect of others to have "iron wills." Humans have fears and weaknesses and tend to survive the way they can; including betraying themselves and their own values. Of course, this is not an apologetics of their choice. Yes, we should raise the public awareness and hope for a better socio-economic outlook. parents need to take the first step - and stop Selling kids a TV progrram was just on H1 - some of the parentsget up to 4 to $5,000 up front style_images/master/snapback.png Apparently, some families don't feel ashamed. The attached picture - showing a Russian girl who sells her body - have always amazed me: the contrast between the expression on the girl's face and the joyful expression - almost proud - of her family - assuming that the men standing behind her are family! PS. MosJan, I apologize for the picture. Having seen - in this forum - paintings of nudity, I did not know that a nude chest would be considered offensive. I'm sorry. Edited March 21, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AraManoogian Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 I've heard that many Armenian Citizens work in the Arab Emirates. At least some of the $9M may be wire transfers to the family who stayed in Armenia! style_images/master/snapback.png When I was in Dubai, I looked into Armenians that were working in the UAE and sadly many of those who make $1,000 a month are said to send only a small amount back to Armenia to their families. I was told that a large portion of that is spent on having “fun”, meaning on visiting prostitutes. This information came from what I found to be a reliable person and knowing the present day Armenian way of thinking, I have to believe that this is an accurate assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 banits durs e galis or HAyer@ UAE kam POrnikutyamb en $$$ vastakum kam el pornikneri vran en irents ashxatats@ tsaxsum ??? lav yekekq iydpes chnayenq . yes hamamit em Siamantoyi asatsy het or 9m i mets mas@ da normal "q@rtinqov" vastakats dram e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 MosJan, I apologize for the picture. Having seen - in this forum - paintings of nudity, I did not know that a nude chest would be considered offensive. I'm sorry. style_images/master/snapback.png paintings of nude - and picture of the nude are not the same Armats Paintings are work of ART and we at Hye Forum are Proud of him and his work in the other hand picture of the video that has the actual "Twins" on it is offensive to at list 4 of our members who have found time to PM me and let me know that you have made a post and used a picture of "twins". So next time if you need to post something - make a Painting of it liek Armat is duing just a JOke - but try not to post "twins" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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