Arpa Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Anyone know what this is all about? I read it several times, yet, still I cannot make head or tails. What are they talking about? "law on ethnicity"?? "law on ethnicity"?? What in gehena are they talking about? What is the basis of this debate, and the purpose? http://www.armenianow.com/eng/?go=pub&id=314 Who Are You?: Law on ethnicity raises debate By Gayane Abrahamyan ArmeniaNow Reporter An unusual proposal by Armenia’s Deputy Minister of Justice has caused debate in the National Assembly over ethnic identity and has even engaged the help of the Apostolic Church in determining whether the matter is of spiritual concern. Article 23 of the draft law on Civil Status Acts includes legislation by Deputy Minister Tigran Mukuchyan that says a person’s ethnic identity should not be included on his/her birth certificate. “. . . a person should chose for himself to which ethnicity he or she belongs,” Mukuchyan maintains. “In no developed country has ethnic identity been mentioned and cannot be mentioned. This is a violation of human rights.” Opposing Members of Parliament see Mukuchyan’s proposal as a threat to national identity and the very existence of Armenian statehood. During discussions of the law the Commission on State and Legal Issues of the National Assembly had submitted two recommendations: That a birth certificate must include the ethnicity of the parents, and of the child. But only the first part, obliging parental identification, was adopted, leaving open the issue of whether the child’s ethnic identity is a matter to be enforced by law. According to the Deputy Minister’s proposal, a person could choose to identify his/her ethnicity when applying for a passport, at age 16. “A logical question arises here: If we do not mention the ethnicity of the child at birth and do not mention it in the passport when he becomes adult, how we are going to mention his or her ethnicity in his children’s birth certificates when he becomes a parent?” says the Head of the Commission on State and Legal Issues of the NA Rafik Petrosyan. Petrosyan qualifies it as a “lspecial case” and calls the draft law authors’ approach an influence of the Order of Masons, claiming that the group disavows nationality in its call for a world community. Petrosyan sees the proposal as a needless and counterproductive attempt by Armenia to become like its Russian and Western models. “Not everything should be copied and we should not compare ourselves with England or Russia – they do not have a problem of nation-keeping”, says Petrosyan. “If we do not mention the ethnic identity Armenian as a concept will cease to exist.” Mukuchyan defends his article in this way: “How and on what bases should we mention the ethnicity of the child in the birth certificate when, say, one of the parents is Russian, the other is Armenian and they can not agree upon the indication of the child’s ethnicity?” But his argument has not convinced the legislators and they decided to appeal to the Patriarch of the Armenian Apostolic Church Catholicos of all Armenians Garegin II. The Holy See of St. Etchmiadzin sent an official response to the inquiry on November 17, which particularly says: As a result of a multi-sided study the Holy See is for indication of the ethnic origin upon the desire of the parents based on the following: 1. The indication of ethnicity expresses the ethnic identity and forms the realization of profession of ethnic values. 2. It is the right of the parents to decide over the ethnicity of their child similar to other decisions regarding the child (adoption, education). 3. There is no alternative to the ethnic identity when the parents have the same origin. In cases of mixed marriages we practice definition of the ethnic identity of the child upon the male line, or otherwise upon the decision of the parents. The third reading of the draft law will be postponed until the Government and the National Assembly reaches an agreement according to Babken Saroyan, an expert in state and legal issues. “At present neither the Parliament wants to surrender nor does the government want to amend the notorious Article 23; in case of the adoption of the Article just in one generation we will lose the concept of Armenian ethnicity”, says Saroyan. Petrosyan says media and Non Governmental Organization surveys show that 90 percent of the public favors making ethnicity known on the birth certificate. “Just imagine if a child of two Armenians, whose ethnicity is not indicated in the birth certificate does not want to call himself an Armenian,” speculated Petrosyan. “At the age of 16 what ethnicity will he or she have? Whatever he wants (Russian, Englishman, French, etc.)? If the answer to this is yes, will it not become grounds for the gradual extermination of the Armenian ethnicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I didn't knew this kind of thing existed in Armenia. I'm revolted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Similar issues were raised in Eastern Europe 10 years ago, starting from the Balkans all the way to Poland and then Czechoslovakia. Armenia is lagging exactly 10 years (along with other post soviet republics) in protection of human rights and freedoms. While on the surface concern with regard to freedom to choose ethnicity seem to be justifiable cause the way they try to implement it could only bring up unnecessary divisions within the Armenian society in Armenia. Armenia was and probably still is one of the most homogenous countries in the former Soviet Union. 96-97% are ethnic Armenians. In Armenia even many Kurds and Gypsies have Armenian names and surnames. It would suffice to have freedom to choose a name, which will indicate your affiliation with certain ethnicity which traditionally inhabited Armenia, besides obviously the ethnic Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted November 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) In the Armenian version of that article the writers are using "azgutyun" as a synonym for "ethnicity". Obviouslty, the writers don't know that the correct English word for "azgutyun" is "nationality" and that the correct Armenian term for "ethnos" is "hetanos/hethanos" which in the Latin speaking countries is known as "heathen". Interpret anyway you want but that word had an innocent intonation to mean 'those who were different, spoke a different language', but thanks to the "chosen people" it acquired a whole new and disgusting meaning, i.e. dirty, godless, alien and foreign. It is not surprising, based on the fact that we the Armenians are the world's most loyal students of the garbage that those "chosen people" have and still do propagate, we would base our nationality and citizenship on "ethnicity". Read "hethanosutyun" . That will cut our numbers/population down to a few thousands, if not hundreds. It is also extermely wise to ask the church's opnion about the matter. Duhh!! That way our numbers may be cut down even further to a handful, i.e. only those who can trace their heritage to Grigor the Pahlav. Some may know him as the Lusavorich. Whatever happened to "qaghaqatsi/citizenship"? But then again how would "giughatsis" living in the middle ages know such terms? Stupid idiots!!! Edited November 29, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) i just dont understand how do you choose your etnicity?? citizenship? maybe but ironic!! as if there was nothing else to debate on, as far as I know you could choose to become Jew if you wished, but there not even an etnic group. Edited November 29, 2004 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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