edward demian

I would not dismiss the Armenians of mixed ethnicity. They are often very community minded and compensate for their self perceived shortcomming. Unless other Armenians succeed in alienating them with unkindness. A polititian of Armenian descent with proper dedication to Armenian issues could be crucial to us. Because of their mixed parentage they often look less ethnic and and there fore more effective among non Armenians bypassing the lingering race prejudice in this country. Such a politition vcould filibuster any acts against Armenian interests in either of the two houses, and could expose those whom have sold their souls for Turkish money. (like that Hungarian Jew; known as the Senator from Istambul. That guy disgusts me. His parents would turn in their grave if they knew what he was doing. They were killed in the camps.) Anyway, we need more direct representation in both houses and halfbreeds are ideal.

Armenia has an incredible variety of birds since it's in the migration path.Specialized echotourism would be very appropriate. However, I think a new mindset needs to occur. We need a public relations coup that would put Armenia and especially Artsak on the map. Since the liberated lands seem in danger of being negociated back to the Muslims which are like human Locusts on the land, with their goats and uncaring attitude towards their environment; perhaps we should declare all those lands a "nature preserve", reintroduce the Wood Bison and other extict species. Immagine all the nature lovers all over the world, the Grenn Party, etc., rooting for the Armenians. We could easily make the argument that to give those territories back to the Muslims, would mean the eventual desertification of the land. That and an individual private compensation for property lost, would difuse the issue. We should not assume that a million displaced muslim refugees living in tents will go anywhere. They don't have the resources to leave and resettle. However, if I'm any good at judging human nature, I think that the majority of people living in squalor would gladly accept a similar property or money to settle somewhere else. Maybie, Turkmenistan, or Dadgigistan.Last time I priced a "starter heard" of 100 sheep it was $1000.00 Too simple? After all we would be trading money for land. And what is money if not just paper. These are pastoral people and a herd of sheep, a place to graze and a simple shelter would be all they really need. Something like this would have to be handled on a private basis, keeping the Azeri government out of it. They would oppose this. However, with the refugees gone, their lip flapping would go unnoticed.

bellthecat the book i had mentioned before is: The Frontiers of language and Nationality in Europe" by Leon Dominian Published for The American Geological Society of New York by Henry Holt and Company in 1917. I was previously wrong about the date of the publication. In this book, the Kaiseriye district was 20 to 30% Armenian.The region adjoining just North of it is listed as over 50% Christian. See Map Page 294 of above. This publication is a must for every serious student of ethnology.

MJ Thank you for the tip. I did check out the historical passages. Nothing there contradicted the short history of the Armenians from Ani. The accounts of the slaughter of the last defenders of the outer and inner citadel does not deal with the plight of the general population of the countryside. The city of Ani did not exist in a sterile Region devoid of population. Infact the Kayseritzis also clain descent fron Ani refugees. So I suspect that the general population dispersed way before the residents of the Citadel which were probably mostly merchants, servants, soldiers and key noble personnages.

Once again I find myself admiring the Jews and their practical minds. Whille we bicker and dream about "our lands" and the monuments therein; If this was a Jewish issue, some Jewish organization would have quietly helped settle a few Turkish families (of Armenian descent) and Turkish cityzenship in the immediate area, and then there would be no more vandalism or fear. The Zionists would place small patriotic settlers in key hystorical spots and let nature take its course.

"SIGNIFICANT DIDDERENT QUARRYING METHODS" Finally. With modern dimentional stone quarrying methods, no explosives are used all all.

We the Armenians of the balkan peninsula have allways known of the Basils being of Armenian origin. There have been other royal dinasties of Armenian origin in Bulgaria and Romania. They are known as Phanariot kings because they were appointed to rule Ottoman subjects and they tended to be from the wealthy suburb of Constantinopolis called Fanar. However, the Bulgarian Royal dynasty helped his subjects fight the Turks and is well revered by his subjects.

I have a very old book written before "Chart" about the populatins and ethnic composition of the Ottoman empire and Europe. The name of the author seems Armenian allthough is Anglisized somewhat. It too uses Ottoman Archival data, but it comments extensively on the quality of the data and also uses data obtained from the local Church (Parish)records. I would have to fight the Black Widows to get to it but if you still need the data I'll retrieve it. My father was born in Kaysery, and there is a union of Kaysertzis somewhere around us. My granfather, Margaros Demiraiakoghlu (Demiraiakian), had 6 brothers and he is the only survivor as far as we know. However, In Kaysery there were two massacres. One in 1912(?) and the one in 1915. So the earlier numbers are the important ones. Don't forget that around Kaysery, the penalty for speaking Armenian was the cutting of the tongue. Many Armenians became Turkified in the 1600's and 1700's due to the horror of the penalty.

I recently spent two weeks in Romania, having gone there to claim the property Confiscated by the Communists from the Armenian Industrialist families. I had left the country as a child of 10, and this is the first time that I saw the country with adult eyes. What amazed me was the number of Armenian churches and structures. The Armenians of Moldova were originally refugees from the city of Ani. They fought so hard against the Mongols, that their bravery earned the the hatred of the Mongols and the admiration of the Plosh nobility. The Armenians that left Ani when the walls fell, had to perform an unimaginable fighting retreat for thosands of miles. They travelled North and West around the Black Sea. Eventually they settled in Crimea where after a century the constant and unceasing pressure from the Mongols, forced them to retreat yet again all the way to Poland. In Poland, The Armenian Community was extremely successful financially that soon found itself in a position to bail out the Polish monarchy out of their financial problems brought about by constant warfare with the same Mongols. The Armenian community had the obligation of providing a military contigent and to our credit we were master cannoneers and very knowledgeble about Mongol military tactics which made us very valuable. So valuable, that intermarriage started to take place between the Poles and the Armenians. When the bishops tried to convert the Armenian masses to Catholicism, the majority rebelled and accepted the invitation of a Romanian King of Moldova (Mircea the Elder)which, in return for the Armenian community providind a military contigent against the Mongols and by now the Turks, they were given extraordinary rights, and land. We had the right to our schools, churches, Judicial System and Jails. Those rights, exept the Independant Judiciary and penal institutions survive to this day. The decendants of those early Ani settlers built the "White Citadel" and a few monesteries which survive to this day one of them is called "Hatch Gadar" which is a functioning monestary and the population surrounding gather there at certain hollidays and present certain traditional Armenian foods, etc. There are approximately 300,000 descendants,cognizant of their ancestry but no one ministers to their cultural or religious needs. Sad. I sa Armenian churches in the city of Bucharest, Galati and Tulcea, all part of the ancient silk route. In Bucharest, the odest Han is Manug's Han (Hanu lu Manug), which is a 500 year old caravan Inn, now a restaurant.

Dear bellthecat. I owe you an appology. I thought you were talking about the Ani cathedral. I deserve whatever you want to throw my way. As far as the new cathedral architecture is concerned, I have never seen anything of it and like most mothern architectural marvels, I expect very little. But I'm a renaissance man at heart so I live in the wrong epoch. However, to the Armenians, this is the first monumental piece of work since we have been totally free of foreign domination. It's a form of national sacrifice (madagh)to God, thanking him and proclaiming to the world: Look at us, we are here and we are staying. After 1200 years of humiliation by Arabs and Turkish dominations, we are and will continue to be sensitive to our present neighbors.

bellthecat I came late to this forum so I don't know you or anyone else in this forum. When you called the catherdral of any ugly, I felt slighted. I don't understand why because I'm trying to be unemotional and professional about it. Sure, It's not the Cathedral of Notre Dame in ornamentation, but you have to understand the History of Architecture to understand what that cathedral means to the Armenians. Sure, by today's standards, it seems simple, but its an architectural marvel, from the standpoint of construction methods. The area is a highly seismic zone and for it to have lasted this long, it's a marvel in itself. That cathedral and aghtamar means as much to the Armenians as the Wailing Wall means to the Jews. I would be embarassing myself in a forum to tell a Jewish Audience that "their Wailing Wall is an ugly thing and I don't understand the fuss about it." The difference is that at the time we built that cathedral, the Turks were copulating and defacating on horseback and and living in goat-hair tents. Armenian Architecture had to be modest in it's outward appearance, because the Muslim Savages around us allways used religious ferver as another excuse to raid and pillage the area. Ornate monuments attracted raids for plunder. There were times when we could not even show any Armenian script. We had to disguise the inscriptions in the form of birds and flowers so it would not be recognizable as such to the muslims. So I can understand the cynical attitude. Its the cynicism of a primitive people towards a superior culture. I understand the reason why the turks want to erase the existance of anything Armenian; It makes the turks look bad by comparrison.

Kirk is about 90 now so he is very sheltered by his family and friends. lots of people try to contact him, and mostly for money. He set up a Nevada corporation for the purpose of managing and disbursing the $500,000,000 that he yearmarked for Armenian charities. The name is Tracinda Corporatin and it is named after his deceaced daughter Tracey. Before that he was cynical about Armenians and their expectations. Her death changed him and he became the most charitable Armenian on earth. Except perhaps for Mr. 5% (Gulbenkian). Trying to contact him will result in embarassment. His relatives out of the phone book will not give him up. So if you have a proposal of some type, make sure that it's the "Cat's meau" of Proposals and you have some NGO behind you. Good luck

The Romanian Government is compensating all Armenians whose properties were confiscated in 1948. I'm looking for my first cousin Isak Demiraiakian and his mother (if still alive) Vehanush Demiraiakian They live in New York City, but don't get out much. They are poor and would like to hear from me because I have news of a potentially very large inheritance due to them. Time is of essence because in two months, they loose all right to compensation. If anyone has info or clues to their whereabouts, please call collect or E-mail: hartldemian@aol.com or Edward Demiraiakian Phone: 760 416-7181

Mj I don't have any argument with your definision of shock waves. I am a mining engineer and am familiar with shock waves generated by detonations of 2000 to 120,000 tons shots. Shock waves are generated by many sources: aircraft, thunder, Explosions, solar flares, etc. However, I appreciate your imput. Bellthecat Thanks for the imput. The method you described seems very primitive. Chasing irregular boulders to cut them into thin slabs is a "proven financial looser" method. Here Dynamite is used in underground mining only. Here we use black powder to blow out the key stones (when the inspectors are not looking). Then we use gang-drills to drill a line of holes (behind and under the ledge)to pop the ledge free from the bedrock. Then the ledge is split into blocks, which are placed into gang-saws where they are slabbed for final cutting. Basalt is a very hard stone. I'm not familiar with "soft" basalt. Perhaps you mean TUFA. Tuf is an excellent, light weight building stone. Allmost impervious to weather. Very easy to cut and carve. Thr ancient ones used to place the stones on each side (interior and exterior) and fill in between with sand, rock and egg white. (Egg white is Albumin.)Albumin is probably better bonding agent than Portland Cement due to its flexibility . Concrete will cure to a higher psi, but has limited flex properties. Modern contractors have much to learn from ancient Armenian architecture and building methods. The Ani Cathedral is a ruin due to its roof collapsing and subsequent water dammage, coupled with the effects of a few barbarian invasions and war dammage. I think that someone's inexperienced relative got the contract to supply the stone and is doing what he can. Like else- where, the Golden Rule dictates: he who has the gold makes all the rules. The money comes from abroad without many strings and is managed by those who write the rules. Here in Palm Springs, the Armenian community is building a church. They have over a million dollars for it and insted of building a traditional stone building like we used to do, (or a concrete block building, and clad it with stone hung on a metal back up system with stainless steel anchors) they are building a wood frame building with a little stone on the front. The termites are going to eat that building down to the nails in 50 years. But the people who donated and control the money are doing what they wish. Not one of them has experience in stone extraction or construction, and made sure that the lone experienced but dissenting voice on the church council was eased out and marginalized. Once again "he who has the gold makes all the rules". So in Armenia, expect less. However, they will finish that Cathedral, no matter how, and we will be prowd of it. And that is most important.

First I'd like to say that the subject of sound waves doing dammage is not realistic. The method of drilling, filling up boreholes with a mixure of explosives(usually Perlite"a common agricultural fertilizer" and diesel mix)and top and bottom caps (explsive charges). Consequently that 4 to 6 inch borehole acts as a rifle barrel and sends most of the sound waves very high and upward. Dynamite is only used in small underground tunneling operations. The quarry is too far from the ruins for the sound waves to hurt anything. Thunder is about as loud. Shock waves? That is a different matter. Shock waves travel in all directions. There is no way to measure shock waves other than by placing machines that feel and record those waves on a stripp of paper like an adding machine tapes. If the Turkish government really wanted to substantiate their claims of Armenian dammage to their own ruins, than they should have invested aout $100 dollars on one of these Seismic Monitors, placed it in the middle of the Ani cathedral and go from there. My personal unreaserched opinion is that the the Ancient Armenian construction methods were far more advanced than those of today when it comes to Seismic Resistance. A combination of specific architecture and constuction methods made for excellent Seismic Shock resistant edifices. I think the Turkish government is trying to blame the Armenians for the neglect and vandalism to those Ancient Edifices.

Baah The first guy who lost his teeth figuered it out that it was better to crush the grains and wash it down with water or milk rather than trying to gum chew the hard grains.Eventually, his most significant other, started to anticipate his needs and prepared his meal by pre-crushing and soaking the grain flower. One day Mr. Tothless didnt come home and the stuff sort of rose. Probably they didnt wash their pots for the same reason that they didn't brush their teeth; No soap and no tooth paste in 12000 BC. Well some of the mold acted as yeast, but it looked scary or disgusting so he threw it in the fire. But it bounced in a corner where it baked, so you have the first bread loaf. Charcoal, sand and all. Do you guys think I can submit this for my Masters Dissertation?

I can't believe this!!!!! Guys, first let me say that I'm a mine Engineer with 20 years experience inthe crushed Stone and dimention stone industries. What I see in the picture is a crushed stone quarry. Only in Crushed stone quarries is blasting permitted. If the Ani ruins are too close, than one does not have to ruin the owners and investors of the quarry by shutting it down. There are seismic monitors; Machines that are used at blasting time around the perimeter to record on tape the severity of the seismic shock. Too hard? One reduces the size and the severity of the blast and one can blast very close to buildings and habitation. But that is not what is going on there. Once you commence blasting, the Dimentional Stone deposit is ruined for that purpose forever. (Dimentional Stone is stone used in the construction of Buildings, Churches, Courthouses, Schools, Jails etc.) Why, because the blast cracks the stone blocks. In the united states, Dimentional Stone quarries do not use Explosives. Now Diamond Cutting Equipment is used. Huge, 15 foot long chainsaws with diamond segments and lots of water is used to cut the stone into squares, slabs etc. Humbly Yours, edward demian

Reacent blond and redhaired Caucasian mummies found in Western China, determined to have a Celtic connection from analisys of fabrick and patterns. The Kelts were a confederation of tribes that stretched from Ireland, Scotland, France (Gaul),Belgae (Belgium), Poland ( Galicia), Romania (Dacia), Galatia (Phyrigia), and some people think that the Vannic Kingdoms and the mummies mentioned above may belong to that Ethnic Group that was mostly absorbed by the German tribes that were driving them.These people originated North of the Caspian Sea and scattered outward like a fan. The descendants of these people tend to Roll their "R"'s. Tend to be fine boned Alpine stock, tend to have musical instruments that have a bladder, their Artistic skills advanced in both design ,metalurgy and warfare. The Kelts were a Bronze age culture. What killed them was the discovery of Iron in Armenia. It just swept their economies away. These noble savages probably of Celtic stock overan the Hitites and the Egiptian(Hyksos). I think the Armens were of keltic origin. The Armenian language has many ties to Keltic(or what others call Germanic)language; From simple words to certain Gramatical affinities. Discovery Channel and the History channel featured all that I have plagiorized above. null