edward demian

Does anyone know of a map of Artzack and the conquered and liberated teritories? Does anyone have a map of ancient Artzack?

Dear Aurguplu. When I read an argument from a turk telling me to forget, I think of a common thief having finnaly been caught after years of stealing, telling everyone to forget their losses because it happened a long time ago. To that thief, my loss is insignificant because he stole from so many. But to the victim, that loss was singular and traumatic and has affected his life in many ways. We will never forget. My quarter Armenian chilldren will never forget. You cannot keep the fruit of your crime, enjoy the confiscated house you live in(metaforically), eat the fruit of my orchards, wash the blood off the floors and tell me to forget, when I the victim am homeless, looking at all you took of mine from over the fence and know what happened in that house. You thought that we would assimilate, intermarry, forget and go away, and a hundred years later we are still here and getting stronger. You forget! You repent! Allow the Kurds, the Assyrians, the Greeks, the Yezids and the Armenians their remedies and maybie we can forgive, but we will never forget. Even today, I have warm feelings toward turkey. I visited Istambul twice in my life and both times I felt warm towards turkey. I felt I was at home. The water tasted better than any I had tasted, the sounds, the smells, everything had a genetic memory trigger, and I felt at home. However, I felt that my home was full of enemies. There may not be anything rational in what I experienced, but there it is. I am willing to accept that a gang of criminals hijacked the government and used their power to destroy a small minority for personal profit ang gain. The turkish courts ruled on the perpetrators and convicted them. All you have to do is build on that. Don't ask the victim to accept his loss, it's the criminal that has to repent.

None of the countries that have the bomb intend to use it. This world is divided between the haves and the have nots. The haves push around the have nots. Look at Israel. They have it and they are keeping it; along with anything else they want.

If the US ambassador to Israel eversaid that about the holocust, he would be recalled.The Israeli government would declare him a "personna non grata", and he would be finished as a diplomat. But the insensitive US ambassador to Armenia has nothing to worry about. He knows that the mealley mouthed Armenian diplomats would put out a mild mannered long winded article in an obsure publication about it and that's all. I was speaking with an Armenian priest a week ago and he told me in unambiguous Armenian: "Hayerea doushag chiunin." They need to develop the Atomic bomb if they want to be respected. My first thought was, and I said that woulfd be too expensive. It is cheaper to develop Bacteriological weapons. hisanswer was: "The world would condemn us". That conversation changed somewhat. Mind you, I don't recommend the use of the bomb. However, as I mentioned in another forum before, We could buy a few from disgruntled Russian soldiers, and watch the world smile at us from then on. We need to declare the US ambasador to Armenia a persona non grata. Getze Tasnagtzutiuna! Miayn Zenkov e hayotz pergutiuna! Unmahatzan Vartanank!

Isn't the Blessing of the grapes another purely armenian custom and nothing to do with the Christian religion? Well, I love all those customs, as I love all things Armenian. I don't want to be like everyone else. I don't think that hitting an animal in the head to kill it on an assembly line is any more civilized. Actually, the cleanest meat one can eat is one with the least amount of blood in it. The traditional slitting of the jagular is the best way ro prepare meat. However, Slaughterhouse owners by not bleedind the carcass completely gain a few pounds fron each animal and muliplied by thousands, that's profit. And that is how "mad cow" like deseases cross the species barrier.

It is unfortunate that Georgia is loosing population. My first reaction was a chovinistic thought. Gee if Georgia becomes weaker, than Armenia may profit. However, i decided to travel the high road on the subject. A weaker Georgia is a weaker Caucasus and therefore a more threatened Armenia. The more I think of this, the more a united Transcaucasian republic may be the way to go.

If you know anyone in Kabul, can you find out if the reprts of a rocket attack on Kabul is True?

This is a subject I know a little about. My first wife was Prussian (German). My family harassed us to no end. So did hers. It ended in divorce. I looked for an Armenian mate for 12 years. Nothing jelled. I met a lot of them, but I was not attracted all that much. Iwas compensating I so wanted my parents to approve. Finally in despair, I told my pqrents to find someone for me. When they did, I married her without looking. She was barren and it didn't last but a year. I married again a another (French/Scotch), and that did't last either. I think the problem is imprinting. If you don't grow up among Armenians, you don't imprint with Armenian girls. So one imprints with foreign types, and subcontiously is attracted to them. But conciously Armenians want to marry Armenian because of the obvious need to survive as a distinct tribe. My personal opinion is that Armenians have throughout history married non Armenians, but they were easily absorbed into the larger Armenian community. And if we married Turks, Persians, Kurds, Assyrians, Georgians, Tatars, why not, French, Germans, Irish, Russians and other Western Europeans? It's what we do with the marriage that counts.

A common Kurdish and Western Armenian state is a distinct possibility. Politically, the Kurdish leadership has accommodated with the idea. There was a great assembly of Kurdishleaders and the very subject of the return of the Armenians was extensively broached. Some made comments such as "how can we live together ? Aftewr all we killed them, didn't we?" The answer was: "We lived together with them for centuries, and if they come back with their schools and churches, there is plenty of room". there were no Armenians present, a few turks, mostly Kurds. I think the Kurds have realized the turkish strategy of divide and conquer. They have been protecting small pockets of Armenians and Assyrians among them and truly are reaching out to us. We remain aloof. The only ones to act upon the opportunity were the Communists. However, Armenian Communists outside of the Soviet Union, were never significant. I see nothing wrong with a Armenian /Kurdish confederation such as the Swiss model. In fact, I don't know why we don't revive the old Idea of the Trans Caucation Republic of old. The possibilities are interesting. for that, the Azeri's would have to give up the Pan Turdanian dreamms. With their resources and ours we would not need the superpowers.

Cool! But how do you know Russian or Ukrainian songs about Odessa?

MJ My grand father was a Demiraiakoghlu; later changed the oghlu to ian. My grandmother was a Giritlian. Are we related?

MJ I have not given up on Eastern Armenia hlping the Western Armenians regain their rights. However, so far their efforts have been dissaponting. I think that we have to chisel away at turkey one issue at the time. We may have to accept temporarily that we were part of the Ottoman empire, and al least regain the rights as Ottoman Armenians first, and keep on struggling for "equal rights". I think that the day will come when the turks will call our bluff and say: Fine, sorry, come back and settle or shut up. I have to be prepared for that day. Wstern Armenian is essential, and speaking turkish is too. I don't dismiss parallel efforts by other entities, such as Hayastan, UN, EU, CIS, ANSALA etc, etc. However, I am realistic that Armenia cannot take on all the issues at this time. First it has to survive. In fact they pretty much let it be known that the diaspora has to sink or swimm by itself. I used to be very pessimistic before the fall of Communism. Now I know that anything is possible.

My relationship to the Armenian Catholic Church is simply that my family came from Culicia. I have heard it said that during the Crucades and after, the Cilician Armenians found it religiously compelling to ransom French, Scottish German and other European prisoners from the victorious Muslims. All the Europeans were Catholic at that time. A lot of those prisoners had their families reemburse their hosts, but those whom were not, had to stay on to work their ramsoms off. Being young men, good looking and strong, some stayed on, married Armenian and assimilated into the Armenian population. The only thing that was stronger than nationality at the time, was religion. They remained Catholic long after their descendants forgot their roots. Cosequently, the Cilician Armenians have a lot of foreign physical traits and a large catholic population. In the late 1700's, Rome also prosethylized heavily in the area. Also, there has allways been a core of Catholic Armenians whom did not opt for Orthodoxy. When my dad arrived in Romania, he was 3 years old and later, his parents relented to send him to Mechitarian vank in Venice, where he learned fluent Armenian. Not all of the "vartabetsui" were frocked. The majority went back to their communities Armenianized and literate to become community leaders. My father married an Austrian/Moldovian woman who was not very open minded about Armenian issues. So the only way for me to learn Armenian was to go to a Seminary, live and study there, where I became Armenian and literate. I so much want to duplicate the experience with my two sons, Armen and Mihran. However every time I telephoned and tried to discuss that with the Mechitariantsy's, I get the polite bum's rush. There are no Catholic Armenian Churches in Palm Springs. Some people say that we Catholics are Catholic first and Armenian last. I don't think so. I attend and served on the local Armenian Lusavorchagan church council for for years alomg with Pohokagans. There are no doctrinal differences, the liturgy conforms to the Armenian rite and the sacrements are mutually recognized.

For me giving up on Western Armenian is another nail in the coffin of the Western Armenian Aspirations. I still dream of a renaisance in turkey where we succeed in reclaiming a lot of turkified Armenians. We may not be allowed to return, but there is not much the turks can do to Turkish Armenians who rediscover their roots. Western Armenian will serve well. I thought the Jews revived Hebrew which was like Crapar.The Irish revived classical Gaelic not a modern mountain jargon. I don't know what is being taught in California Armenian schools.

Achchig. Yes because the test is designed to prevent out several things. 1.Relatives from marrying each other and procducing idiot chilldren. (I is possible for 1st cousins unknowingly marrying) 2.One or both may have a venerial desease. 3. A few blood types are not very compatible, and the chances of procreation diminishes drastically but not to zero. However, except for # 2, neither of the problems are obsolute. Overall, the test is designed to inform not regulate the parties to a union.

Dear MJ Somehow I knew that I would hurt someone's feelings by making a comment about my opinion of Eastern Armenian. I am speaking of language development. I am a product of Mechitarian Catholic Seminary in Lebanon. For nine months a I attended that school and learned Armenian. My father graduated from Saint Lazarus "Vank" in Venice Italy. The Mechitarians have been the best Armenian linguists in the world. They are constantly purifying the language of foreign, especially Turkish and Iranian words which have crept in and replaced perfectly good and proper Armenian ones. To this day many Armenians call donkeys , Esheg, when the armenian word is "anasoon"; or animal hayvan instead of anasun. Western Armenians make mistakes too. the Lebanese Armenians adoption of "ghor" is atrocious. there is no such word in armenian yet " ghe khoseegor" is more common than "ghe Khosee". When I listen to "common " Eastern Armenian, I find it riddles with Russian words. Tren (train)instead of shokegarkh, Telefon (telephone) instead of heratzain, and the interchanging of G's and K's, B's and P's etc, all were imposed on us to separate us from each other. Traditionally, Eastern Armenian was taught in Iran and Soviet Armenia only, and all other schools taught Western Armenian. There was a reason for it. Western Armenian is much closer to Crapar (clasical Armenian) , and a lot of Idealistic Armenians had hoped to scrapp both eastern and western armenian and re introduce Crapar. It is too late for that. Populism today will not allow it. So as Western Armenians stuggle to retain their dialect as pure and original as possible, as the Eastern Armenians are taking the language in outer space somewhere further and further from us and it's roots. I love all Armenians, but when it comes to language we need to standardize and purify. Language needs to unite us, not separate us.

Harout Alyur Anglieren "flour" gha tarkmanvi. Tsoreny masin. Ekiptatsoreni masin "corn meal " gha tarkmanvi.

Gamavor You must mean "en la guerre comme la guerre" The only thing French about your translation is the wine your drinking.

Khodge Why are you so ready to cede Cilicia by saying that it was never considered Armenian territory. A lot of Cilicians will differ with you. Armenians may have settled Cilicia in the beggining of the second millanium, but we still resided there far longer than the Turks. I am appaled on how inconsiderate Eastern Armenian leaders, political and religious, are of Cilician and Western Armenian rights and claims. They suffer from the mentality that we are lost to the nation. I would like to remind them that our culture is intact, our language vibrant, rich and unadultarated. Culturally, I think the population of Armenia has lost much more of their culture and linguistic purity than the Western Armenians.

I have seen Armenian women get picked on and ganged on by the the matriarchs in the family to the point of madness. I don't know why it is, but new brides and beta females in the family tend to be constantly harrassed and picked on. Probably something cultural. A form of indoctrination rites. It's worst on non Armenian women. Non conformis behavior is not tollerated and nonconformist womenen are shunned or worst. I read an article elsewhere about the subject. In this case, Victorias death had another dimention. Her family stood to gain financially by her death. An inheritance was at stake and her death left more money in the family to divey up. If you want to see canibalism, watch an Armenian family at a Probate meeting.

I'm sure that they are called the same in Eastern Armenian. However, culturraly, Eastern Armenia up to the Genocide, had been a backwater place. Except for Echmiadzin which was a religious center. Kesaria, Edessa, Constantinopolis were the main cultural centers. Linguistically, Eastern Armenian is still a "lerayin parpar". And that is a "P" as in Paul.

Sulamita How could I forget. Greece=Hunastan India=Hentkastan All that is correct Western Armenian denominations for some of the people they met in antiquity.

Sulamita Fransahays come from Kahiristan. Ethiopian Armenians come from Habishistan Polish Armenians come from Lehastan. Africans are Hapshigs. Jews are Herrias Jordanians are Hortanantsys. Egiptians are from Misser. there are a slew of tribal names of various nomadic peoples that passed through Armenia that the Armenians named something or other, but those names don't mean anything to me because ther is no reference. Too bad. When the Colophons refer to "the nation of the Archers" I can suspect that they mean the Mongols, but I don't know for sure. By now are you sorry that you asked?

Gamavor The Armenian church has lost it's messianic drive a long time ago. I can see why. For 1200 years of muslim domination attempting to convert a muslim to Christianity was punishable by death. beside, the nature of Muslim doctrine is such thatthey are easily susceptable to conversion. Often time, a Muslim will feign to accept Jesus Christ, and personally and secretly justify it by saying that "shure I accept christ as a profet but not the son of God." For example, a muslim will swear on the Khoran to a lie if it is convenient at the moment. In their religion it is not quite the cardinal sin it is to devout Christians. I think that having said that, that the many Azery refugees would be inclined to accept conversion just to be allowed back home. Immagine if a large number of them would agree to resettlement for conversion. That would sure take the wind out of the sails of the Azery government claims. Beside, don't most Armenians claim that the turks are mostly Armenian and Greek mixes? Why stop there. Why not make a concerted effort to convert all of Azerbaijian. The Mechitarist fathers have no problem getting turkish chilldren from muslim families for their Catholic seminaries. The turks are ripe for conversion right now. The world is watching and they can't get away with what they used to do.

Gamavor I think that he married a Turkish citizen. (not completely positive about that) His problem started when he changed the name of the hotel. They closed him down and accused him of pursuing a synister agenda. He is in the court system now. But they let him spend a fortune on the hotel first, and when the remodeling was finished, that's when they shut him down. I often wonder if a lot of problems that are piled on the Armenians of turkey are not just opportunistic criminal elements using the law and corrupt officials to victimise the Armenians.