Vayri7X

The source is here: http://www.genocide-museum.am/eye_witnesses.html Fayez el-Husseyn presented his testimonies in a book entitled “Massacres in Armenia”, published at first in its original Arabic in 1916. How many other testimonies from Arabs and other Muslims (non Turkish ) do we have on record as wintesses on our side? What has been published or translated from Farsi and Arabic in English, French and Russian? This really pulls the the proverbial rug out from under people who simply name is as solely interreligous hatred,where many -especially in the west- may just dismiss it as solely on the basis of intereligous hatred, so " of course armenians were slaughtered? what do you expect? look at the Balkans..it is just the natural order of things...and leave it at that. It gives more credibility to the actuality of the Turkic policies.

ARAB EYEWITNESS HUSSEYN EL-FAYEZ ABOUT THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE Descended from the powerful tribe of Sulut in the Hauran district of Syria, Fayez el-Husseyn was a prominent Arab lawyer. He was the Governor of the Harpoot (Kharberd) Province for three and half years. In 1915, on the way to Erzerum, he was arrested by Turkish authorities without any cause, and spent one month in a Diyarbekir prison. As part of his probation, he stayed on in Diyarbekir for approximately 7 more months and was eyewitness to the atrocities committed by Turks against the exiled Armenians from Erzerum, Van, Bitlis, Kharberd and other places. Later, Fayez el-Husseyn presented his testimonies in a book entitled “Massacres in Armenia”, published at first in its original Arabic in 1916, and then later, the book’s popularity resulted a French and English translation, “Temoignage d’un Arabe musulman sur l’innocene et le massacres des Armeniens, and “Martyred Armenia”, respectively. ...After great ordeals, during which I often saw death and slaughter, I reached Basra, and conceived the idea of publishing this book as a service to the cause of truth and of a people oppressed by the Turks, and also, as I have also stated in my conclusion, to defend the faith of Islam against the charge of fanaticism which will undoubtedly be brought against by Europeans, May God guide us in the right way... ...We then proceeded in carts from Seruj to El-Raha (Urfa). On the way I saw crowds going on foot, which from a distance I took for troops marching to the field of battle. On approach, I found they were Armenian women, walking barefoot and weary, placed in ranks like the gendarmes who preceded and followed them. Whenever one of them lagged behind, a gendarme would beat her with the butt of his rifle, throwing her on her face, till she rose terrified and rejoined her companions. But if one lagged from sickness, she was either abandoned, alone in the wilderness, without help or comfort, to be a prey to wild beasts, or a gendarme would end her life with a bullet... ...After leaving Urfa, we again saw throngs of women, exhausted by fatigue and misery, dying of hunger and thirst, and we saw the bodies of the dead lying by the roadside. Upon our arrival near a village called Kara Jevren, about six hours travel from Urfa, we stopped at a spring to breakfast and get something to drink. I went closer, towards the source of the spring, and came upon a most appalling spectacle. A woman, partly unclothed, was lying face up, her blouse messy and bloody, and she had four bullet-wounds in her chest. I could not restrain myself and wept bitterly. As I drew out a handkerchief to wipe away my tears and looked round to see whether any of my companions had observed me, I saw a child not more than eight years old, lying on his face, his head chopped off [apparently] by an axe... ... In the evening we arrived at Kara Jevren and slept there till morning. At sunrise we went on towards Sivrek, and halfway down the road we saw a terrible sight. Corpses were lying in great numbers on both sides of the road; here we saw a woman outstretched on the ground, her body half veiled by her long hair; there, women lying on their faces, the dried blood blackening their delicate forms; I saw the corpses of men, parched to the semblance of charcoal by the heat of the sun. As we approached Sivrek, we were deluged by the number corpses, mostly children’s bodies. As we arrived at Sivrek and left our carts, we saw one of the servants of the khan carrying the body of an infant, with hair as yellow as gold, which he threw behind the house. We asked him about it, and he said that there were three sick Armenian women in the house, who had lagged behind their companions and that one of them had given birth to this infant but could not nourish it because of her illness. So it had died and had been thrown out as one might throw out a mouse... ...What, in God’s name, had these women done? Had they made war on the Turks, or killed even one of them? What was the crime of these hapless creatures, whose sole offense was that they were Armenians skilled in the management of their homes and the training of their children, with no thought beyond the comfort of their husbands and sons and the fulfillment of their duties towards them. I ask you, O, Moslem – is this to be counted as a crime? Think for a moment. What was the fault of these poor women? Was it in their being superior to the Turkish women in every respect? Even assuming that their men had merited such treatment, is it right that these women should be dealt with in manner from which wild beast would recoil? God has said in the Koran: “Do not load one with another’s burdens”, that is, let no one be punished for another. What had these weak women done, and what had their infants done? Can the men of the Turkish government bring forward even a feeble proof to justify their action and to convince the people of Islam, who hold that action unlawful and reject it? No; they can find no word to say before a people whose customs are founded on justice, and whose laws are founded on wisdom and reason... ...I observed that the crosses had been removed from the lofty steeples of the churches, which were now used as storehouses and markets for the keeping and sale of the effects of the dead... ...At Moush, a part [of the Armenians] were killed in straw-barns, but even a greater number by shooting or stabbing with knives. The government hired butchers who received a Turkish pound each day as wages. A doctor names Aziz Bey, told me that when he was at Marzivan, in the Vilayet of Sivas, he heard that a caravan of Armenians was being sent to execution. He went to the Kaimakam and said to him: “You know I am a doctor, and butchers, as doctors are mostly occupied in cutting up mankind. And as the duties of a Kaimakam at this time are also like our own – cutting up human bodies – I beg you to let me see this surgical operation myself”. Permission was given, and the doctor went. He found four butchers, each with a machete; the gendarmes had divided the Armenians into parties of ten, and had sent them up to the butchers one by one. The butcher told an Armenian man to stretch out his neck; he did so, and was slaughtered like a sheep. The doctor was amazed at their steadfastness in the presence of death, not saying a word, or showing any sign of fear. The gendarmes used to bind the women and children and throw them down from very lofty heights, so that they reached the ground shattered to pieces. This place is said to have been between Diarbekir and Mardin, and the bones of the slain are there in heaps to this day... ...Shavket Bey, one of the officials charged with the extermination of the Armenians, told me, in the company with others the following story: “I was proceeding with our military party, and when we arrived outside the city walls of Diarbekir and began to shoot down the Armenians, a Kurd came up to me, kissed my hand, and begged me to give him a girl of about 10 years old. I stopped the firing and sent a gendarme to bring the girl to me. When she came I pointed out a spot to her and said, ‘Sit there. I have given you to this man, and you will be saved from death’. After a while, I saw that she had thrown herself among the dead Armenians, so I ordered the gendarmes to cease firing and stand her up. I said to her, ‘I have had pity on you and brought you from among the others to spare your life. Why do you throw yourself with them? Go with this man and he will bring you up like a daughter’. She said: ‘I am the daughter of an Armenian; my parents and kinsfolk are killed among these people; I will have no others in their place, and I do not wish to live any longer without them. Then she cried and lamented; I tried hard to persuade her, but she would not listen, so I let her go her way. She left me joyfully, put herself between her father and mother, who were at their last gasp, and she was killed there”. He then added: “If this was the behavior of the children, what was that of their elders?” ...The Turkish Government thought that European nations might get to hear of the destruction of the Armenians and publish the news abroad so as to excite prejudice against the Turks. So after the gendarmes had killed a number of Armenian men, they put on them turbans and brought Kurdish women to weep and lament over them, saying that the Armenians and killed their men. They also brought a photographer to photograph the bodies and the weeping women, so that at a future time they might be able to convince Europe that it was the Armenians who had attacked the Kurds and killed them, that the Kurdish tribes had risen against them in revenge, and that the Turkish Government had no part in the matter. But the secret of these proceedings was not hidden from men of intelligence, and after all this had been done, the truth became known and was spread abroad in Diarbekir...

What about the concept of the "Divine Feminine", i.e. , a Goddess archetype or entity/entities ? Does a worldview that posits a monotheism, a stern father figure ( authoritarian hierarchical spiritual model ) really challenge or change anything: or is it another set in an over 2 thousand year old model which banishes certain existential realities experienced by (armenian and) humans in their environment? What differentiates this Armenism from the long-standing Abrahamic religions(such as Christianity) , or the stodgy patriarchalism of Confucianism or Roman paganism? These religions which are fearful of joy, the flesh and matter, the feminine element, the shadows and liberatory chaos? Fearful of reason and reflection also? Fearful of liminal modes of thinking as opposed to a binary split between flesh and matter, the Self and the Environment? Fearful of the playful Dionysian masculine , and upholding the repression of healthy masculinity under the rubric of excessive "Reason" and fear of dissolution into an undifferentiated feminine chaos? How much agency ( control over their own lives) does this Armenism provide? Is it a religious mechanism of control or a mechanism of liberation?

I counted 27 ayes, 21 nayes: WE GOT IT FOR MARKUP ! no onto next phase of the work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am watching it live from the website right now, so its not removed

ah-no they are debating it right now does anyone know which CSPAN on tv this is on? granparents don't have internet

Oh, and BTW, much <3 to the real reds who did their deeds honorably. And any people who helped Hayastdan really prosper. Can't paint all of you w/ the same brush, ya know. Nuance in understanding is key to actual liberation IMNSHO, as is respect for differences-we should just learn from our history is what I am saying.

Good lord, May Day wasn't even started by Communists@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=it was started by anarchists ; libertarian socialists, anti-authoritarian socialists, - you know, ppl who said " It's not my revolution if I can't dance to it" ( Emma Goldman). See Haymarket Square, Chicago, Lucy Parsons-=the folks who brought you the 8-hour work day-this 8-hour work day movment reached a peak in HayMarket Square in Chicago. Not a bunch of Stalinists ( who also sold out the attempt to cut off fascism in the head during the Spanish Civil War , betrayed tons o people!_ . On the sell-out in vivid form, see Ken Loach's movie "Land and Liberty " or Orwell's Homeage to Catalonia, or read on the "Durutti COlumn" in Spain. Or th eCNT-FAI. Again-"state capitalists" -i.e., authoritarian, state-centered top-down oligarchy, sold out the anarchosyndicalists time and time again (after Russian revolution , which they liquidated in Korndstadt uprising and elsewhere, b/c, well, being an anarchist means libertarian socialist and also one is critical of authoritarian top-down structures, prefers a bottom-up approach-like the asembalistas in Argentina recently- and may not even wish to seize state-power to become the new "mukktar" in town. And before all that- May Day was ........PAGAN! See, Beltane/Bealtian ( re: May Poles Dancing, Rausing the May Pole, temporary May Marriages, union of Female and Male elements) , Walpurgis NAcht (Apr. 30th et al in germnay) plus a million other fertility festivals all over Europe and parts of Southwest Asia. Which is why for some old-school Armenians from various communities, St. George's Day (May 6) is still a big deal. Okay, well, I am guessing .....................on that who knows?;-) Then again, I can very well see why some Stalinist #% with a fixation on his "power-over" ppl may very well choose May Day to co-op and run his military tanks all over he place. I mean ,if those folks got issues, they should just get their own May Pole raising on and leave everyone else the heck outta it. Duraks.

Did that . Too many candles, not enough people FLAMING>

Request for the HAYEREN /ARMENIAN name of this female archetype! ( to get back on subject and help the girl out who started that site: Alright, I knew it once, now forget. Folk tales of the spooky sort are a good source, as is a wide knowledge of local demonology in folk culture. The patterns of this archetype have been listed: female spirit, night, odd feet, associated w/ night birds and sleep apnea - (re succubus like behavior as well) , deserted places, sometimes winged. A bit predatory. Mirrors come up quite a bit as well as bathhouses. I would not be surprised if one of the "Mehian" poets included this archetype in one of their poems. Afterall the Prayer of Navasard was a good bit innovative. Other names in the Meditteranean are Lamae/Lamia , Strix (where "Strega" comes form) and a few more. A look into the folk tales of greater hayasdan would be fruitful. p.s. In Plains Culture, ( North American Indian) she is Deer Woman. Heard the story as a kid (eek!)

from memory:: as far as "lilith" being herya, the fact is is that her legend is an archetype that can be found worldwide, but is near eastern in origin, which includes the ancient armenian territories. the archetype was widespread in the ancient near east, but protections against her and this type of "alive symbol" in folk belief and the unconscious persist to today-particularly in the fears of certain types of men and also reactionary repressed women with no spine to speak of. the first mention of the Lilitu is in relation to sumerian mythos and texts where the goddess inanna asks a male friend -Dumuzi, if i remember right-to cut down a tree where "the dark maid lilith lives" and the "Zu" bird lives. one of her original (Sumerian )names is kisikil udakkarra or kisikil lilake; "the dark maiden who has seized the light". She is an archetype of a female Prometheus , or light-bringer ( hence a better word may be luciferian). herya pikced her up, but as a demon, such as Igrat bat Mahlath or of the "qlippothic" variant in malkuth; the root of the word for night in semitic languages-Lyl- is connected to the name. as she arrived into biblical mythology, she was said to be the first mate of adam. however, she refused to lie beneath him (be subjugated), sprouted wings, flew to the shores of the red sea and cavorted with spirits for sheer fun until the tyrant Jhvh or "yaldaboth" sent angels to slay her offspring, ala passover fun i suppose. so the great god in the sky made eve to be adams submissive helpmett, but adam had a problem being attracted to eve, so lilith disguised herself as a serpent to give them a little help. check Hypostatis of the ARchons in the NAg Hammadi for more. Biblical script is isaih 34:14 where she is referred to as teh "great screech owl" common in this archetype is the anti-authoritarian and promethean element as well as night, night birds, fleeing, strange feet (like aisha qandisha in morocco or the churail of south asia ) , sleep apnea and erotic but horrible dreams, desert places, unabashed nondomesticated female sexuality- a threatening sexuality in fact to the point where it is demonized by a repressive power-structure, the power of the repressed, the obscure, underworld, etc....she would be a spandermat type for armenians and i suppose we could find connections to vishap legends as well , as opposed to a domesticated hera or "de-toothed"/"declawed" variant of Anahid who only gets to play the role of the corralled mother in many interpretations or a mere genitive force. a levantine variant of her is Anat. in persian archetypes, it is AZ or JEH. there is a male counterpart as well that constantly pops up. in occidental modern narrative, she is commonly found in thelemic texts as a correspondant of "Babalon". Jack Parsons -a rocket scientist-wrote a beautiful poem called the Birth of Babalon which shows a Lilit type influence on his characterization of the thelemic Babalon. additionally, this archetype is popular in "lhp" narrative, poetry and so forth. in hoodoo in the south in the u.s., she's referenced as "the lady in red", or in where more african trad has remained in voudon proper as a loa of the "red type" (ge rouge)such as "ERzulie ge Rouge/Ezili ge Rouge" . she can also be corresponded to the loa Oya when the bs is dropped. further south, some have claimed that Madame Charlotte is more appropriate for this model / belief system.Syncretic systems , again in the more latin area in the u.s., many say that "Arana de Reyna" ( queen of the spiders) is a better correspondance. next door in texas, there is the La llorona legend which persists. in short, an archetype premised on liberation and the shadow side of things, so to speak, which has sparked some great poetry for some and nightmares for t\others.

Screamers movie is playing this Saturday @ 5:15 pm as a part of the AFI Dallas International Film Festival Here is the details where tickets can be purchased for the Dallas event, Screamers! documentary by Carla Garapedian, which features Armenian progressive/hard rock music band System of a Down. Screamers! is showing March 24th, 5:15 pm Sat, playing at the Magnolia Theater in Dallas, as a part of the AFI Dallas International Film Festival. http://filmguide.afidallas.com/tixSYS/2007...&ShowPast=N Cost: $8.50 a ticket Date: Saturday, March 24 2007 Time: 5:15 pm City: Dallas, Texas Theater Location & Address: Magnolia West Village 3699 McKinney Avenue, Suite 100 Dallas, TX 75204 (214) 764-9106 http://www.landmarktheatres.com/Market/Dal...TheMagnolia.htm Number to call to purchase a ticket: For ticketing information please phone 1-214-720-0663 or email boxoffice@afidallas.com What is Screamers! About? Official Website: http://www.screamersmovie.com/default.asp Wikipedia Entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screamers_%28documentary%29 Check youtube or the official website of screamers for trailers and shorts. About Carla Garapedian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carla_Garapedian What does AFI acronym stand for? AFI stands for the American Film Institute : http://www.afi.com/about/whatis.aspx What is AFI Dallas? The Dallas premier of AFI . http://www.afidallas.com/

All the threads on the forums show as collapsed: as in teh starter post shows, then below everythng is "collapsed" in a tree belwo where alll the repsonses show only the first couple of words. Is this the permanent style of hyeforum? vay offf....i want to see the full bodies of each post as my page loads so i don;t have to click on each and every response-- how do i fix this? CAN i fix this?

I agree . After reading all of this, I submitted a post . But the implications of denying elements of our culture finishes and accelerates the jermag chert.

I support the above. At the same time. I say to all of you who say not white=not Armenian and polly up by saying European this and that the following. : Written in English for odars to read as well. Hayastan was Hayastan, Armenia/Armenia and Armenians were Armenians before others not indigenous and native to our area *invented the idea* of "Whiteness" , which is recent ( check your current science of anthropolgy and the history of the creation of he idea of whiteness in Western Europe and North America) , which nonetheless has REAL CONSEQUENCES. And if you reading this believe in biological bases of races , nontheless, I ask you about FMF? FAMILIAL MEDITERRANEAN FEVER which is a genetic disease SPECIFIC ONLY TO PEOPLES THAT ARE MIDDLE EASTERN IN ORIGIN! Hayastan was Hayastan and Before an Orientalist perspective created the vantage point of the center as being Western Europe and N. America as the norm and everything east of that , thus the creation of the term " Middle East", again an invention which is recent to world history and especially to Armenian history. That being said: HISTORIC WESTERN ARMENIA WHICH MANY OF US ORIGINATE AND WHERE THE GENOCIDE TOOK PLACE IS IN WHAT IS NOW CONSIDERED THE MIDDLE EAST/Southwest Asia. DO NOT TRY TO ETHNICALLY CLEANSE OUR COLLECTIVE MEMORY AND CULTURE THERE AND FINISH WHAT THE TURKS STARTED JUST TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO AN INVENTED PEOPLE -i.e., whites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!