Turchun

[Arpa]

Originally posted by Sip:

The only thing that puzzles me, is why wait till March to tell us these amazing insights about pedurs (the other thread) and turchuns.

 

Wouldn't the month of "Pedr-var" have been more appropriate?

 

Next question I have is why do people get so amuzed when I tell them I am a "barksa-hav"? Isn't it a rather tasteless joke?

That's it Seap!

We did not roast you in "pedr-var", now we are going to "pettel your peturs".

 

Which brings up this other point (considering all this gobble gobble talk): I have heard Armenians use the phrase "anham" to describe "tasteless" or actually, more accurately, "unfunny" jokes and behavior. Conceptually, clearly the same root ... but I wonder how that came to be!

As to "parska-hav", we already know that you are a "strange bird" i.e. ajami.

Anham may have ferived from "anhamam", you dirty umbathed bird!!!

If were there I would give you your "pernit ham@"

[Arpa]

TUrchun.

You will notice that I spelled the word with a U instead of "trchun".

We may remember when about Thanksgiving time I wrote an article about that bird and I cited some of the names various people call it. Armenians call it "hndkahav" (Indian bird) just as many ascribe it to some alien an exotic origin. Kheghj trchun! Why not! After all "Turk" and "Turkey" are far from being an eandearing term. I also mentioned that the Italian/Latin word for that bird is "tacchina"(female) and "tacchino"(male). Note that in the Latin and Italian the "ch" sounds like K. Yet it is tantalizingly curious that that Italian word "turchin" looks and sounds so much like the Armenian "trchun" (flyer/bird).

Was that bird first identified by the Armenians and having no name for it they simply called it a "bird/trchun" and the Romans, having first seen it in Hayastan accepted the term as such?

One may also remember that the reasons given for the English word "turkey" is explained that the bird was first seen in Anatolia and was known as "turkey hen".

Turkey may be a "strange bird" in more ways than one, not in the least that it will go the way of the dodo and become extinct. And when that happens (soon) this bird will sing "Trcheyi mtkov tun, Ur im mayrn (Hayastan)e artun ......."

 

Goble goble to you too smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Edited November 26, 2003 by Arpa

[Sip]

The only thing that puzzles me, is why wait till March to tell us these amazing insights about pedurs (the other thread) and turchuns.

 

Wouldn't the month of "Pedr-var" have been more appropriate?

 

Next question I have is why do people get so amuzed when I tell them I am a "barksa-hav"? Isn't it a rather tasteless joke?

 

Which brings up this other point (considering all this gobble gobble talk): I have heard Armenians use the phrase "anham" to describe "tasteless" or actually, more accurately, "unfunny" jokes and behavior. Conceptually, clearly the same root ... but I wonder how that came to be!

[Arpa]

http://5west.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/turkey_bird.jpg

No, no. It is November. It is not the season for turkicde .

What prompted me to revive this thread is that, although I have seen those birds on the side of the highways, sometimes whole families of them with chicks and all, I recently saw one of them in my backyard.

Soon they may commandeer my house just as their namesakes did a hundred years ago.

How is it that bird, by all indications a native of America was given that unfortunate English name?

See above how the Armenian word “trchun, ԹՌՉՈՒՆ turchun (pronounced ‘turkun’ in Italian) gave rise to the common English name.

Granted that European-Spanish re-discovered it in America. What did the Aztecs call that bird?

OK, I found it . Not gobble gobble or even gobble-di-gook.

“XUELOTLIN”.

http://www.wildturkeyzone.com/wildturkey/species.htm

See below. How is it that a bird that is millions of years old will be called by the name of that country? that that bird had been known for millions of years, mostly in America. What were they called before those SSO s (shunsnanordi/շունշանորդի) set foot in our HOMELAND?

What does the Greek name of the genus “meleagris“ mean?. I don’t know. Is it composed of “mel=black” and “gris=grey”? «Սեւ- Գորշ»?

Incidentally, Some have concluded that the name Melanie Մելանիա/Մելինէ is derived from the Greek “mel-an””. I differ. It is based on the Latin Mel/Miele, Fr. Miel, Armenian “meghr” to mean honey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)...tory_and_naming

History and naming

When Europeans first encountered turkeys in the Americas they incorrectly identified the birds as a type of guineafowl (Numididae), also known as Turkey fowl (or Turkey hen and Turkey cock) from their importation to Central Europe through Turkey, and that name, shortened to just the name of the country, stuck as the name of the bird. The confusion between these kinds of birds from related but different families is also reflected in the scientific name for the turkey genus: meleagris (μελεαγρίς) is Greek for guinea-fowl.

The names for M. gallopavo in other languages also frequently reflect its exotic origins, seen from an Old World viewpoint, and add to the confusion about where turkeys actually came from. The many references to India seen in common names go back to a combination of two factors: first, the genuine belief that the newly-discovered Americas were in fact a part of Asia, and second, the tendency during that time to attribute exotic animals and foods to a place that symbolized far-off, exotic lands. The latter is reflected in terms like "Muscovy Duck" (which is from South America, not Muscovy). This was a major reason why the name Turkey fowl stuck to Meleagris rather than to the guinea fowl (Numida meleagris): the Ottoman Empire represented the exotic East.

The name given to a group of turkeys is a rafter, although they are sometimes incorrectly referred to as a gobble or flock.[1]

Several other birds which are sometimes called turkeys are not particularly closely related: the Australian Brush-turkey is a megapode, and the bird sometimes known as the "Australian Turkey" is in fact the Australian Bustard, a gruiform. The bird sometimes called a Water Turkey is actually an Anhinga (Anhinga rufa).

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Fossil record

Many turkeys have been described from fossils. The Meleagrididae are known from the Early Miocene (c. 23 mya) onwards, with the extinct genera Rhegminornis (Early Miocene of Bell, U.S.) and Proagriocharis (Kimball Late Miocene/Early Pliocene of Lime Creek, U.S.). The former is probably a basal turkey, the other a more contemporary bird not very similar to known turkeys; both were much smaller birds. A turkey fossil not assignable to genus but similar to Meleagris is known from the Late Miocene of Westmoreland County, Virginia.[3] In the modern genus Meleagris, a considerable number of species have been described, as turkey fossils are robust, fairly often found, and turkeys show much variation among individuals. Many of these supposed fossilized species are now considered junior synonyms. One, the well-documented California Turkey Meleagris californica,[4] became extinct recently enough to have been hunted by early human settlers.[5] though its actual demise is more probably attributable to climate change at the end of the last ice age. The modern species and the California Turkey seem to have diverged approximately one million years ago.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Arpa