YASSER ARAFAT: "WE AND THE ARMENIANS ARE ONE PEOPLE"

[Guest]

We Armenians are the same as a people who are a fictitious nation that did not exist before the British occupation of the region? I think not! Long live Israel and the Jewish people!

[Guest]

Goodness gracious, Half Breed, you want arabs to be our enemies? You gotta be kidding! Well, of course, we're not the same people, but we're not same as jews either! Why don't we rephrase your remark - long live friendship with both arabs and jews (within reasonable limits).

[Guest]

Ahura Mazda:

 

Shalom!!! Sure Arabs are our friends, but let them take care of the "Palestinians", doesn't Syria,Saudi Arabia or even Egypt have a lot of territory? Their Arab brothers treat the Palestinians like crap. Israel belongs to the Jews, especially Jerusalem, anyone who claims to be a Christian and believes the Bible can't believe otherwise. The Koran, from what I understand, does not even mention Jerusalem, but the Moslems want it out of spite. Hatikvah Israel!

[Guest]

I don't care who Jerusalem will eventually end up belonging to, as long as interests of Christians, especially Armenians are taken into consideration. It's a sacred land for any Christian and Armenian - they should enjoy at least the rights they have there now, if not more. I certainly don't like that jews turn Armenian district of Jerusalem into an exchange card in their games.

[Guest]

I don't think we and Jews can ever be friends. We won't be enemies either though.

 

AP Worldstream

August 28, 2000; Monday 11:27 AM Eastern Time

Israel pushes for broader defense ties with Turkey

SELCAN HACAOGLU

 

ANKARA, Turkey AP) Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak rushed to Turkey on

Monday to lobby for lucrative defense contracts amid reports that Turkey

was scaling back ties with Israeli firms.

 

Turkish officials are apparently disappointed that Turkish firms recently

lost a major contract in Israel and were also angry that an Israeli

minister called for teaching the massacre of Armenians along with the

Holocaust in Israeli schools. Turkey insists that it did not commit

genocide against the Armenians during World War I and regards any such

allegations as anti-Turkish.

 

''Our defense industry would like to have more projects in Turkey,'' Barak

told reporters after meeting with Turkish Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit.

''But we understand the rules of free competition and Turkish authorities

have to decide what is the best thing for Turkey to do.''

 

Turkey expects to spend some dlrs 150 billion during the next 25 years to

upgrade its armed forces.

 

Israeli firms are already working to modernize Turkish F-4 Phantom jet

fighters and are competing for a dlrs 4 billion tender to produce 145

attack helicopters with Russia.

 

But there are reports that Turkish officials have told Israel that it is no

longer in the running for contracts to build a spy satellite, upgrade

Turkish M-60 tanks and supply Turkey with radar equipment.

 

Those reports came after Turkey reportedly lost out in the bidding to

repair the Israeli port of Ashdod.

 

Turkey's private NTV television said Israel promised to award construction

work to Turkish companies in return for military tenders.

 

Barak and Ecevit also discussed Israel-Palestinian peace talks, which

stalled over the question of control of the city of Jerusalem. Turkey has

offered to act as a mediator. Barak returned to Israel late Monday.

[Guest]

Who listens to Arafat anymore ? Not even his own people. But suggesting that the Palestinians are not entitled to their land is ludicrous. I don´t care about what other barabrian Arab countries have done, Palestinians are entitled to their land. Period.

 

Armenians have very little to gain from being on the side of Arabs or jews. we should, ideally, play a more skillful game of getting along with everybody. Similar to what the Armenians did in Lebanon (incredible, when I come to think of it).

[Guest]

Ahura Mazda, do you really think that Christians are going to have more rights under the Palestinians than under the Jews, when they already persecute their own Christian minority? Think not! Just look at how much Israel spread out the red carpet when the pope visited, and for the Christmas celebrations. I dread a Jerusalem under Moslem control. But read my lips(I know you really can't online!) Jerusalem will NEVER belong to Moslems, except perhaps in the endtimes to usher the Anti-christ(my theory is he will be the so called hidden Imam prophesied in the Koran).

[Guest]

YASSER ARAFAT: "WE AND THE ARMENIANS ARE ONE PEOPLE"

28.08.2000 13.42

28.08.2000, MEDIAMAX, YEREVAN. Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat has denied Israeli

reports that he had accepted an Israeli proposal to annex the Armenian quarter in Jerusalem.

The Palestinian daily, al-Ayyam, quoted Arafat as saying that he had strongly rejected this proposal. "The

Armenian quarter belongs to us and we and the Armenians are one people", said Arafat. According to the

Palestine daily, on August 25 the PLO official met with the representatives of the Armenian community in

Palestine, and the Armenians declared that "they are partners of the Arabs in the struggle for a free and

democratic Palestine".

On January 18, 2000 during the unofficial visit to Jerusalem, a meeting of the Armenian President Robert

Kocharian and Yasser Arafat took place in Bethlehem.

Wishing prosperity and peace to Palestinian people, the President of Armenia told Arafat: "Every nation

has its leaders, which come and go. But you, having leaded the struggle of your people for so many years,

have become an integral part of world politics". The Armenian leader declared that his meeting with the

Palestine Authority Chairman is the best indicative that Armenia is in no way trying to play upon the

contradictions in the region. "I can firmly declare that our contacts with Israel can no way influence our

friendly relations with Iran and the Arabian countries", said Robert Kocharian.

[Guest]

Farsi jan,

 

Do you think that anti-Christ will be a human whom we will see and will be able to point out and say:"This guy is the anti-Christ".

Arayzhm

 

[This message has been edited by Berj (edited August 29, 2000).]

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Half Breed:
Ahura Mazda, do you really think that Christians are going to have more rights under the Palestinians than under the Jews, when they already persecute their own Christian minority? Think not!

---

Frankly, I don't know - it might very well be the case. Arabs are generally friendly toward Armenians (but I have to note, much less to other christians, including arab maronites).

quote:

---

Just look at how much Israel spread out the red carpet when the pope visited, and for the Christmas celebrations. I dread a Jerusalem under Moslem control. But read my lips(I know you really can't online!) Jerusalem will NEVER belong to Moslems, except perhaps in the endtimes to usher the Anti-christ(my theory is he will be the so called hidden Imam prophesied in the Koran).

[/b]

---

I would agree that Jerusalem should not be under total control of muslims, but Jerusalem is a sacred place for muslims, too (I'm not sure why, I think there's a mosque or something which is very important to muslim religion). So I guess it's fair if they get rights to that mosque, like different christian confessions have the rights to important christian sites in Jerusalem. As for red carpets for pope and stuff like that - it's purely political and for current momentum only. For jews, christians and muslims (and everybody else, for that matter) are essentially the same "goys" (beasts).
My point is - ideally, would be nice if christians had control over Jerusalem, but realistically - ok, jews would do, just it must be made sure christians don't lose their rights when jews feel they don't need them anymore.

[Guest]

Berj jan,

 

THe bible clearly states that the Anti-christ will come in the form of human flesh, just as Christ did. I am a little worn out tonight, I don't feel like looking up the verses in the Book of Revelation, but if you really want me to I will tomorrow!

 

Khoda hafez,Farsisteve

[Guest]

Hahaha...

Armenians can't solve their own national

problems and you want Armenian people to get into the Israeli-Palestinian one??

[Guest]

For those who are not knowledgeable about the Armenian prescence in Jerusalem (from B.C. to present), I'd suggest you to visit the following web page:

http://unixware.mscc.huji.ac.il/~armenia/A...O/holyland.html

 

For those who say why should we, as Armenians, get involved in the Israeli-Palestinian dilemma, visit the following web page to get an idea of how to turn this gem of ours into a goldmine for Armenia:

http://www.cilicia.com/armo13e.html

[Guest]

Dear Kerop,

 

The ideas put forward in the link on the Armenian Quarter are excellent. I had never thought of the enormous potential of that site.

 

I wonder what has been on the way. you are no doubt acquainted with the scandals in the past. Selling armenian antiquities and son on...Pitty.

[Guest]

The Economist September 9, 2000 (UK Edition), p. 90

 

 

Armenians caught in the middle

 

OLD CITY, JERUSALEM

 

The search is on for “creative ideas” to resolve the final status of

Jerusalem, in particular, the Old City. One idea, already floated, is

that sovereignty over the Old City (leaving aside, for the moment,

Temple Mount or Haram al-Sharif, the compound holy to both Jews and

Muslims) should be divided, with the Palestinians controlling the Muslim

and Christian quarters and Israel controlling the Jewish and Armenian

quarters. Ehud Barak, Israeli’s prime minister, agreed to the idea “as a

basis for discussion”. Yasser Arafat flatly rejected it, insisting on

Palestinian sovereignty over all the Old City, except for the Jewish

quarter. The 2,000 or so Armenians in the Old City were rather relieved

by his rejection.

 

The Israelis say they need the Armenian quarter to ensure safe passage

for Jews to pray at the Western Wall and at other holy sites in the

Jewish quarter. But the Armenians say that the division would fracture

their people (about half of whom live in the Muslim and Christian

quarters), and also cut them off from Palestinian Christians. “If we are

isolated from our Christian brothers…I doubt we will last long,” said

one local.

 

Nor, in the discreet words of an Armenian church official, “has our

experience of 33 years of Israeli rule been so reassuring that we would

seek its perpetuation.” After Israel’s 1967 occupation, Jerusalem’s

Armenian community, which has lived in the Old City for 1,500 years, was

granted the same status as its Palestinians: “permanent residents”

rather than indigenous inhabitants. As such, they have faced many of the

same restrictions on their lives as have the Palestinians, with Israel

blocking the construction of new buildings in their part of the city.

 

They have also had to live side by side with a Jewish quarter whose

ultra-Orthodox residents show little taste for coexistence with their

Armenian neighbours but a large appetite for their homes. With money

from rich benefactors in America, they have made offers that some

Armenians have been unable to resist. One result is that Jews now own 71

of the Armenian quarter’s 581 properties; another that there has been a

40% decline in the Old City’s Armenian population since 1967.

 

But neither are the Armenians enamoured of the prospect of unalloyed

Palestinian rule. They do not much care for the Palestinian Authority’s

often lawless brand of government in the West Bank and Gaza. Their even

greater fear is the rise of groups such as Hamas, whose fundamentalist

brand of political Islam funds fertile soil among the Old City’s 23,000

Muslims, most of whom are poor.

 

The quiet political consensus among the Armenians is that the Old City

should be neither Palestinian nor Israeli but rather an international

“space”, governed by representatives of the three faiths to which its

37,000 inhabitants belong, and protected by the United Nations and other

international bodies. A just solution, but will the Israeli and

Palestinian leaders see it that way?

 

 

Copyright 2000 Economist Newspaper Limited.

[Guest]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Agence France Presse

September 11, 2000, Monday 9:11 AM, Eastern Time

Christians push for presence in Mideast talks on Jerusalem

JERUSALEM, Sept 11

 

 

Christian church leaders said Monday they were pushing for a presence in

negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians on the future status of

Jerusalem's holy sites.

 

"I believe that the voice of Christians is beginning to be better

understood," said Latin patriarch Michel Sabbah after a meeting between

church leaders and Israel's acting Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami.

 

"This meeting was designed to assert that Jerusalem is a Christian question

and during the discussions on the holy sites, the Christians must be

present," Sabbah told reporters.

 

The fate of east Jerusalem and its sites holy to Christians, Jews and

Muslims is the key stumbling block in efforts to forge a peace accord by

Israel and the Palestinians, with a September 13 deadline likely to pass

without agreement.

 

Sabbah was joined at the meeting by the Armenian patriarch Torkom II, as

well as representatives of the Greek Orthodox church and the Franciscan

order which is the Custodian of the Holy Land.

 

A spokesman for the Armenian church said the meeting "enabled the churches

of the Holy Land to express hope that their concerns and their expectations

would be taken into account by the political negotiators when the question

of Jerusalem is tackled."

 

A foreign ministry spokesman said Ben Ami's meetings with the patriarchs

were part of regular contacts established after the church leaders sent a

letter to US President Bill Clinton, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and

Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat to urge the safeguarding of Christian

sites in any deal on Jerusalem.

 

Around 180,000 Christians, most of them Arabs, live in Israel and the

Palestinian territories. Jerusalem's walled Old City houses the holiest

site in Christendom, where Christian tradition says Jesus Christ was

crucified, buried and resurrected, marked by the church of the Holy

Sepulchre.

 

Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat is demanding full sovereignty over east

Jerusalem, which Israel captured in the 1967 war and annexed as part of its

"united, eternal capital," a move not recognised by the international

community.

[Guest]

WE AREMENIANS ARE LIKE NO OTHER PEOPLE WE ARE ARE OWN WE ARE ARMENIANS WE WRE FORMED AS ARMENIANS AND FOREVER WILL WALK THIS PLANET AS ARMENIANS