Ossetians and Alans

[Guest]

The Ossetians are an Iranian-speaking Christian people living somewhere up there in the Caucasus mountains. Where they the original people inhabiting Azerbaijan before Seljuks?

 

Alans are related to these Ossetians. They are also Iranian speaking but moved into Western Europe at an early date. They mixed with Germans and Huns. They eventually settled in Spain where they later formed a union with Germanic Gothic peoples. Thus, Catalan is from this union--"Goth + Alan=Catalan." Many Spaniards have Celtic, Germanic, Iranian (Alan) as well as Arab (Moorish) blood.

 

The earliest people of Kazakhstan and southern Russia (Scythians and Wu-sun tribes) were said to be related to Alans and also Iranian speaking. For millenium, Turkic people have been expanding at the expense of Iranian people, language, culture and genes. They have usurped something that was not theirs originally.

[Guest]

Hakob jan it seems you're trying to turn HyeForum into ethnographic research center.

I think you need to post this kind of posts on Artur's Caucasus forum but not here.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hakob:
The Ossetians are an Iranian-speaking Christian people living somewhere up there in the Caucasus mountains. Where they the original people inhabiting Azerbaijan before Seljuks?

.

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iteresting posts.

No the Alanians/Oessetians were not the original inhabitant of Azerbaijan.
The real Azerbaijan in Iran are of Median Origine, but in Aran (rep of Azerbaijan) was a mixture of Caucasian people (Lezgin, Tsaxur and Udi's) and Iranian people in the ancient time, dyrring the time the Iranian languges were more dominant over Lezgin etc... but these were West Iranian languages, like Persian, Tat and Talysh,While Ossetians/Alanians speak an East Iranian Languge. The Alanians came from North and settled down in Caucasus, and now they are called Ossetians, which is a Georgian designation, rep. north Ossetia calls himself Alania, in the Russian frderation.



[This message has been edited by Iranyar (edited December 07, 2000).]

[Guest]

Y' know, I think Hakob is becoming the new MJ. Or his long lost brother!

 

[This message has been edited by Kazza (edited December 07, 2000).]

[Guest]

Hey lay off Hakob, I for one find his posts very interesting. Also that is the first I heard about Catalan being Goth + alan, it is fascinating if that is true, because I have noticed that out of all the different groups in Spain, the Catalans have the most Persian(rather than Arab look of the Andaluces) look. Garo, what is the problem with him posting things about the Caucasus? I think we need to know about the various peoples of the region, right?

[Guest]

Please dont be pissed off, I was only playing!

 

It is in the spirit that Hakob is a leader-type, pretty much like MJ could be - and is doing this well!

[Guest]

Like Confucius said: "Knowledge is power!" Sorry to some if these posts of mines are really irritating

[Guest]

Hakob and Half Breed

this is HyeForum and I want to see here Armenia(ns) related postings.

As I said you can find other forums where more people are interested in this kind of topics. We all have our interests but lets keep this forum just for our Armenia(ns) related topics.

[Guest]

Arturjan go tell those girls to put some clothes on!!! The ones on your website

 

[This message has been edited by Kazza (edited December 08, 2000).]

[Guest]

Thats right time for advertising.

 

www.CaucasusOnline.net

 

Chat, Forum, News, Music etc. Everything about Caucasians including Ossetians.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kazza:
Arturjan go tell those girls to put some clothes on!!! The ones on your website

(edited December 08, 2000).]

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Kazza, do you want i'll close that website. They are shameful, i know. Especially those girls that already married and have kids and prick husband who allow them to take fotos.

[Guest]

There's nothing at the website when I go there!

 

Artur, don't listen to her--put the scantily clad chicks back!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Artur:
Kazza, do you want i'll close that website. They are shameful, i know. Especially those girls that already married and have kids and prick husband who allow them to take fotos.

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Jan, jan, kidding! They beautiful, theyve got it, so why not? Only thing tell a few to tone it down a bit

Kazz

Have you seen the new Ali G video out yet?

[Guest]

Oh yeah! I saw it yesterday on DVD with my friends. He is cool, i was tired to lagh.

[Guest]

which pictures? All of the photo's links were expired? Should I go to Photo Gallery?

 

Hakob, I just found out also in south caucasus there were tribes of the Scythians(Sakasen or as Movses Xorenatsy called them much later Shkashen) but.

 

* It is not sure that they were reltives of the East Iranian speaking scythians, maybe there were West Iranin speakin.

 

* These people were assimilated long before the Alans came to Caucasus

 

* It is a fact that the Alans who are ancestors of the Ossetians came from the North to settle down in Caucasus (in the 11th century , the Georgians say 17th century but 11th century is a fact)

 

Question to Hakob:

Are you sure that Catalan = Goth Alan, is there any chance that it be Celt Alan, or a variant of that Kelt Alan, Gall Alan etc...?

 

 

[This message has been edited by Iranyar (edited December 09, 2000).]

[Guest]

Iranyar,

 

I heard that the Ossetians, Tat, Talysh and Kurds were all related speaking groups?

 

Yes, Catalan is the region of Iberia (Spain) founded and settled by Goths (Visigoths) and Alans. The Visigoths invaded Iberia and took it away from Romans. They also went on to take parts of North Africa (Morocco and Algeria). Of course, the Visigoths already found Spain to be inhabited by indigenous Basques (who might be related to Caucasus peoples?), Celts, Romans and Alans. They all intermarried. It is said that before Arabic-Moorish invasions, the Spaniards were a blond people.

[Guest]

Oh no the Spaniards have noot been blond people, before the Arab invasion, actually an invasion doesn't change the race so quickly.

I've been stydying in Basque region of Spain, and been to the Basque region of France too, the Basque say that the Castilians and Catalans are influenced by the Arabs and they not, however there were no phisicall defferences between the basues and the people of northern spain, the basques are somehow lighter skinned but you can't say that they have a Nordic look, The fairskinned ones look like Georgians, Pamirians or the Mazandarani's in Iran. I have met a French Basque man, with beared who if I didn't know very well could have said he is a fundamentalist from Tehran, or Täbriz, The Basque have also Swastika which is an Iranian ssymbol, so maybe they have it from ythe Alans, people of Galicia region and Northern Portugal have Celtic genes and there are a lot of redheaded among them.

 

I have done also research wether the basques are related to the Georgians or the Caucasian people in General, the answer has been negative so far.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hakob:
Iranyar,

I heard that the Ossetians, Tat, Talysh and Kurds were all related speaking groups?

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Tat, Talysh, Kurdish and Persian are West Iranian languages while Ossetians, Pamir languages, and also the ancient Soghdian, khorezmian and scythians are/were East Iranian languages.

[Guest]

Iranyar,

 

You know, I have seen pictures of the Pamiri peoples in China and Tajikistan (Yagnobi, etc.). They look just like the Kafiri (now Nuristan) peoples of Afghanistan. Many redheads, dirty blondes, blue eyes and green eyes. Did you know Arabs in 8th cent. forced people into Islam in Central Asia. Once method was quartering of Arab soldiers into occupied homes and occasionally rapes were used as intimidation methods. Was this true in Iran also? Oh, one Persian prince of the Sassanian dynasty had escaped to China away from the Arabs. There are some abandoned Zoroastrian temples in many parts of China. Turks don't realize it, but some of their ancestors were slaves of the Arabic caliphs. Some were forced into Islam and many were not.

[Guest]

The Kafiri people of Afghanistan just recently in the early 20th cent. were forcibly converted to Islam. And, some Pamiri people are said to secretly retain Zoroastrian and Buddhist practices.

[Guest]

In Iran people who are mixed with Arabs, are known,

Yes it is true about the the Sassanian princes .

A Sassanian Princess died in the mountain south of Tehran, in order to die than being enslaved by the Arabs, now that mountain is a kind of pilgrimage place for the native Tehrani's, that mountain is now called Bibi Shährbanu.

Actually the method of Arabs was genocide: to kill so much Iranians as they could and replace the cities by the Arab nomads, but used the Turks as workers and slaves.

It is also sayed that Yazdgerd married a princes in Mazandarn region of Iran, they got a son, when they wrere fleeing to china Arabs killed him in Central Asia, his son went to china and tried to liberate the empire two times out of the Arabs hand. He used Chinese mercenaries or people who were under the chinese rules, but the Arabs had already destroyed everything and he couldn't win the evil with his small mercenary army.

 

 

You are right, the Pamiri's are blond people, also in Afghanistan and Georgia,are there many blond people.

 

In Lorestan Iran are also blond peopleeven once I saw a blueeyed Baluchi , in a region were most of the people are darkish somehow.

 

In General you can easily distinguish between the Aryan and Anatolian people and the Arabs, for example I was last year in touch with the refugees, the Iraqi Kurds (and a the few Persians and Armenians who are left there) look different than the Iraqi Arabs, even the Assyrians who are Semitic look different than the Arabs.

 

BTW the Yezidi Kurds of Georgia, have also retained Zoroastrian beliefs. Yazidi comes from Avestan Yazata which is something like divine force or angel. They lived in Anatolia, but during the Armenian genocide they were massacred brutally, a few could survive and fled to Caucasus , some to syria, their number now in Georgia are estimated 30000, but I have never mmet one, I like to know more about these people, you have any info about them? I guess there were also a communiy of them in Armenia.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Iranyar (edited December 09, 2000).]

 

[This message has been edited by Iranyar (edited December 09, 2000).]

[Guest]

Yes exactly the Sassanian Prince's name was Piruz, I yesterday checked the history books.

 

But I've not noticed negroid features in the lebanese and Syrians, they are actually good looking people, and not Arab at all.

 

But I wonder why Piruz and his Army has chosen the Yazd route, this goes through the steppes, an sacrced inhabitated area, which is easy to control and due to the climate Arabs would have fought better. At that time the Caspian Shores were free and Armenia and Caucasus had found a modus vivendi with the Arabs, If I were him, I would go through Central Asdia, Xorasan , Mazandaran, Gilan, Shirvan, Armenia, then I will send some ambassodor to Georgia and Dagestan, the Avars were allways proSassanian, and gather more power, then directly from the zagros mountains, in where the Arabs were not strong would I have seiged and liberated Tispun (near Baghdad) in a fast and heavy war. It's really a pitty, if Piruz had won the Arabs, the history of our region would have been different, and we would have been more prosperous.

 

Ferdowsi has said in this regard.

 

Co niru ye Täbäri 'o con Ärmäni

be jängänd ba kishe ährimani

 

Co kälbu ye Suri 'o in Mehtäran

Ke Kupal daränd 'o gorze geran

 

hämi särfärazänd ke ishan keänd

be Irani 'o Mazändäran bär ceänd

 

Ägër märz 'o rah ëst 'o gër nik 'o bäd

Be Gorz 'o be shämshir bayëd setäd

 

Beguyësh ke där jäng mordän be nam

Beh äz zendë doshmän bär u shadkam.

 

the intresting thing in this is that Ferdowsi mentions that at that time the Täbärians in Mazändäran and the Armenians, were still fighting, the Army with the devil behaviour.

He recommends that the only way of liberation is fighting with them, he rejects any option of compromise, and he says, if one dies with a good name, is better than if he lives and the enemy is happy with him.

[Guest]

The Basques are not known for being blond, that is a common misconception. The people who are the lightest, tallest and most Germanic looking in Spain are the Gallegos and Asturianos of North Western Spain.

 

As for the original Jews and Arabs looking more like Ethiopians, this is totally logical, as Ethiopians speak a Semitic-Hamitic language.

[Guest]

Farsi jan, people of north western Spain and northern portugal have obviously Celtic blood.

BTW today I have met a Catlan girl, and she looked really Iranian, I told her about the Alans, and she was interested, she told me then Catalan should be an easy language for you, and we have decided that we meet more and more and that I learn Catalan from her

 

[This message has been edited by Iranyar (edited December 10, 2000).]

[Guest]

Yes, concerning the Sassanian prince who fled to China. His name was Peruz or Pirooz. He died in exile in the capital of China as a palace guard. His son, Narseh advanced to role of general in the emperor's court. There were other Sassanian aristocrats that fled with Pirooz to China: Spabad, Suren, Varazpour, etc. Yes, the Chinese emperor had once or twice lent Pirooz some Chinese troops with Turkic mercenaries. They had once advanced as far as Yazd in Iran only to be repulsed back by the Arabs later.

 

Some anthropologists claim that the original Arabs as well as Jews were the same as Ethiopians and thus a black race. They only acquired their "whiteness" through conquest and enslavement. Even the most "white" Arabs such as Lebanese and Syrians maintain some identifiable Negroid traits compared to other European and Middle Eastern peoples.