armenian girls and sexuality

[Guest]

Greetings my fellow armenians...

 

Disclaimer: I'd like to bring up a very controversial topic and I hope no one will shoot me over this..lol..

 

There's a lot I adore about our culture. The strength of our men, the beauty of our women, our family centered lives, etc etc...(all that traditional stuff)..

 

There is, however, one point I absolutely cannnot stand: the double standard employed universally against all armenian women. We're judged not on our character, but on our purity, not on our worth as human beings, but on some artificial "qualifying test" we either pass or fail when we speak of our VIRGINITY. Well, I can tell you right now, I always fail that one )...No, I'm not a virgin. Am I ashamed of it? No. I feel like it's such a personal matter, a personal choice. Yet I can't help feeling almost guilty, like I've somehow betrayed my culture and my people when I say I'm not a virgin. Why do I feel this way? It's the weight of years of virtual imprisonement of our women's ***ual desires that makes me feel this way. Centuries upon centuries of men who prized virgin brides and women who could not fail to meet that criterion or they would be severely ostracized by society, ridiculed, left unmarried (ironically, perhaps the greatest punishment).

 

Believe me, it'd be MUCH easier for me to conceal the fact that i'm not a virgin, to lie to men who love me, make them love me more for my assumed purity. But I can't. And I don't. Not only because my personal integrity will not allow me to conceal or lie, but because I feel it's important to at least try to make others understand that it's not "wrong" or "immoral", but merely another choice.

 

So I'd like to appeal to your collective Armenian conscience to stop judging armenian girls who chose not to be virgins, to stop making them feel "guilty" for a crime they didn't commit. Please, let's be more tolerant.

 

I hope this strikes a chord with other armenian girls who may not be ***ually active but would like the FREEDOM to make that CHOICE. It's not about the ***, ladies and gentlemen. It's about the CHOICE.

 

To all the armenian guys who I find wonderful in so many truly "armenian" ways, please allow your women that choice.

 

To all the amazing armenian women, let's lobby for that choice. Maybe not now, maybe not in 10 years, but someday, let's hope we win the right to make that choice.

 

I consider this the first step in that crusade.

 

I look forward to any replies.

 

liberated, but very armenian )

 

g.s.

[Guest]

First of all, Armenian Girl would never talk about virginity in the public place.

Try to say the same thing in Armenia, i am 100% sure that you wouldn't be able easily find a husband to merry you being not virgin!

It is our culture and our views! So-called Western Armenians might not think so. Weak families in western societies couldn't keep our views and traditions and most of "armenians" who live in the US think in the same way as americans. And that is just sad!!

Choice?? What choice?? This will just show your negative sides if you think this way!

 

the end!

[Guest]

[This reply has been deleted because of too many bad words.]

LET'S JUST DISCUSS!!

 

Admin.

 

[This message has been edited by Garo (edited May 25, 2000).]

[Guest]

ArmenianCleopatra,

 

I just want to make a few points.

 

First of all, just because Armenian men express a given set of opinions it does not mean they trully live by those standards. It is just that a majority of them are not ready to admit that virginity is not the first thing on their mind when choosing a bride. So they play the game with their friends

 

Second, all those guys who think they are marrying virgins He he he ... It cracks me up to think how naive they can be. If only the medical records of the OBGYN's would become public. I can't imagine how many guys would die of a thing called "manto."

 

Astvats hay aghjiknerin hamberutyun ta, isk hay t@ghanerin xohemutyun.

 

Aneta

[Guest]

Artur: "DO you even think before you write something???"

Sulamita: "You may attempt to insult my intelligence but you will fail miserably - I promise "

 

Artur: "Games?"

Sulamita: "Is ther a better word for it?"

 

Artur: "Your thinking is kinda funny."

Sulamita: "We often concider funny what we don't understand."

 

Artur: "Guys who think that they are marrying virgins??? what does that suppose to mean...?"

Sulamita: "Now you are insulting your own intelligence "

 

Best Regards.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sulamita:
ArmenianCleopatra,

I just want to make a few points.

First of all, just because Armenian men express a given set of opinions it does not mean they trully live by those standards. It is just that a majority of them are not ready to admit that virginity is not the first thing on their mind when choosing a bride. So they play the game with their friends

Second, all those guys who think they are marrying virgins He he he ... It cracks me up to think how naive they can be. If only the medical records of the OBGYN's would become public. I can't imagine how many guys would die of a thing called "manto."

Astvats hay aghjiknerin hamberutyun ta, isk hay t@ghanerin xohemutyun.

Aneta

---

Dear Sulamita,

In almost 80%-90% of cases a boy with satisfying intelligence level living in Armenia can predict his girlfrends being virgin or non-virgin. There is an well-known algorithm of calculations for this, and using it one will never need any medical examinations. But this applies only to Armenia, and the reason for that is that almost everybody's life is on public display. Here is the algorithm:
Step No.1: Inquiry among her neighbors (especially elderly and teens)
Step No.2: Inquiry among classmates etc.
Step No.3: Examination of her family's moral behaviour
Step No.4: When she goes out, with whom, for what,where, when she comes back etc.
Step No.5: At you first sincere talk you tell her that you're free-minded and you like experienced girls and so on... You will have the answer.
This really works. If she manages to pass these tests with cheeting the guy, one sould take the opportunity of marrying this kind of academician-girl.
Sleeping around and fooling everybody in Armenia requires a set of carefully planned steps which resemble a special forces opperation. Life of Armenians abroad is a separate issue.

And, please, answer to the following questions:
Why is the virginity included in the femail's design? Is it some kind of appendix? And why should the unjust God, or wrong evolution, or cruel extraterrestrials have done this to the femail's.

Thank you

[Guest]

DO you even think before you write something??? Games? Your thinking is kinda funny. Guys who think that they are marrying virgins??? what does that suppose to mean...?

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sulamita:

ArmenianCleopatra,

 

I just want to make a few points.

 

First of all, just because Armenian men express a given set of opinions it does not mean they trully live by those standards. It is just that a majority of them are not ready to admit that virginity is not the first thing on their mind when choosing a bride. So they play the game with their friends

 

Second, all those guys who think they are marrying virgins He he he ... It cracks me up to think how naive they can be. If only the medical records of the OBGYN's would become public. I can't imagine how many guys would die of a thing called "manto."

 

Astvats hay aghjiknerin hamberutyun ta, isk hay t@ghanerin xohemutyun.

 

Aneta

---

[Guest]

Berj jan, nice system:: )))

I've never thought of that, but what you've said is pretty much true...

You can look at the girl, talk to her, look at her family... her charcter... And there will be an answer for you.

Nothing is more pure than a real Armenian Girl!

To ArmenianCleopatra: It is very sad to read your message... I hope none of the Armenian Girls would agree with you... Shame! The biggest punishment is to have a daghter like "you"...

 

Artur Asatryan, Gyumri, Armenia

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Artur (edited May 26, 2000).]

[Guest]

Artur jan ary mi hat espesna Haykakan Proshti enem Jakatet. Maladets Qezi .

Ap jan kardzik m@ unim ora te tramart@ che krnaya gitna te axchik@ tselka e te voch minchev et Ander or@ .amot iren .

martik el kan ora irent hech el chi hetaqrqre te tselka e chene voch.

MAkur Zulal ISkakan Mor kats kerats NAmusov Jigyarov irents @netaniki tasib@ pahor Hayeri Tsav@ tanem .

Amot e es inch ek xosum es 2 ora asum em chxarnvem dzen chhanem baytst te Anamotutyan el chap u sahman ka . mi tufta Kayfi hamar drel en iranst Tasib@ u Namus@ mejter, mi ban arel ek haskatsank beranernit pak pahek gone Jahel yerxek en galsi ester

imatsek dzer 10 tarekan kuyrna galsi ester u et dzevov el xosek . inchpes vro dzer tan@ chnayats vor tun ka tun@ tun el ka dur@ tsetsum es asum en tun@ mart chka .

[Guest]

Its good not many females think like that, teche korac eink. Ba el inchov ek tarberum es pchacac azgeric? And yeah SURELY it is a guilt! If you knew the meaning of that word you would definitely know that it is. It has always ans is considered something immoral and not proper among "jokox" people (not only armenians). Ara inch qaq utumek kerek menak dzer erexekin etenc mi dastirakek, mer zhogovurde makur pahek. Ehhh axper chgitem e, um hetem xosum, umem ban bacatrum.

 

Mi banel asem. Angleren asem vor lav joken. Whoever supports this "free choice" lifestyle gives us a hint about non-virgin self.

 

This one is for the other fellow who was talking about her "chexac" inteligence. You have to have one to be insulted.

[Guest]

Berj,

 

First of all I would like to comment that the so called FORMULA you mentioned is just straight out ridiculous. I see what goes on around me and I am very well aware of what goes in Armenia. And to say the least, Armenia guys are not as "jogogh" as they pretend or wish to be and the rest just don't care.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Berj:

And, please, answer to the following questions:

Why is the virginity included in the femail's design? Is it some kind of appendix? And why should the unjust God, or wrong evolution, or cruel extraterrestrials have done this to the femail's.

 

Thank you

 

---

 

I am sure there is a very good reason for it - evolution wise that is. I still have not had the chance to analyze it too much But you see, virginity (or lack of it) does not mean ANYTHING if you think a little more. It makes me puke when I hear what VIRGIN girls are doing to satisfy their ***ual needs (while keeping their virginity). If I were a guy, I would much prefer to have a wife who is not a virgin and was in a relationship where she chose to be ***ually active - rather than a VIRGIN wife who did every other twisted, degrading ***ual act with God knows how many boys and men. So before every single one of you expresses an opinion consider revaluating your stands on this issue.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Valod:
Mi banel asem. Angleren asem vor lav joken. Whoever supports this "free choice" lifestyle gives us a hint about non-virgin self.

This one is for the other fellow who was talking about her "chexac" inteligence. You have to have one to be insulted.

---

Valod,

Qo barer@ ayn ameni apatsuytsn e vor tunavorum e mer joghovrdin. YEZRAKATSUTYUNNER anelov mardiq nmanvum en TGET barbarosneri. Aghjka MAQRUTYUN@ voroshvum e nranov te na vorqan hamardzakutyun uni kartsiq haytnelu - voch te nranov te inchpisi kyanq e varum kam inch eutyan ter e. Mi lav joxovrdakan xosq ka, asum en "Marmand getits vaxetsi."

Isk inch verbervum e im mtayin karoghutyunnerin (kam "intelligence") havata vor yerbeq chem janum mardkants APATSUTSEL nra goyutyun@. Nkatogh@ nkatum e, isk ch@nkatoghin yes parzapes nerum em

Barin @nd qez.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sulamita:

 

FORMULA you mentioned is just straight out ridiculous.

 

The formula covers everything, if you just thing of it in positive sence. But surely you are prejudiced about it.

 

I am sure there is a very good reason for it - evolution wise that is.

 

You're analysing this just in terms of physiology. Put some religion in it. Does your soul has anything to do with virginity.

 

And you know what, I think you're still a virgin.

[Guest]

Sulamita, I just wish that none of Armenian would be able to read what you've wrote!

Anyways, i do not want to comment everything you say, because there is no point to argue with an american girl, moral values of these people are nothing compare to Armenians! SHAME!

[Guest]

Get out of the 17th century people, this isn't Puritan Scotland! By the way Artur, what about those scantily clad Armenian beauties on your website. I enjoyed looking at them, but you Mr. Conservative? Amot kez! Just kidding. Don't take things so seriously.

[Guest]

Puritan Scotland? Do you know anything about Armenia? Armenia is not ****ed up country as America, we still have moral values, traditions and our culture!

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:

Get out of the 17th century people, this isn't Puritan Scotland! By the way Artur, what about those scantily clad Armenian beauties on your website. I enjoyed looking at them, but you Mr. Conservative? Amot kez! Just kidding. Don't take things so seriously.

---

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Artur (edited May 27, 2000).]

[Guest]

Well Artur, we have a lot of very moral people in the U.S.A contrary to what you believe. Have you ever been to Tennessee or other states in the South? THe churches are full every Sunday morning. People pray in restaurants and there is strong morals. This country was founded on Biblical principles. Even here in supposedly corrupt LA there are many moral decent people who believe in God. Why is it that the U.S.A always comes to everyone's rescue during disasters? They lead the way. Remember who helped during the Armenian earthquake. America is a great country and I am tired of people on this website bashing it! We are one nation under God!

[Guest]

Church has got nothing to do with it and it is not the point.

In Armenia girls have only 1 man and it is the husband! Girls who try to talk about so called free choice I guess do not live in Armenia presently and forgoten our traditions, culture etc. or simply lived too much in America!

That what this is all about!

[Guest]

But I am sure you are not a virgin Artur, why the double standard? And again, enough of the America bashing. Americans are not all corrupt heathens!

[Guest]

Double standard? There is no such a thing called double standard in Armenia::: ))))

Are you a girl to raise this question (double standard)?

quote:

---

Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:

But I am sure you are not a virgin Artur, why the double standard? And again, enough of the America bashing. Americans are not all corrupt heathens!

---

[Guest]

No Artur I am not a girl! But Why should girls be expected to be virgins while guys play the field? The bible condemns pre-marital *** for both men and women. I know the bible very well as I was a Baptist for most of my childhood. Of course, the Bible condemns lying, dishonoring parents etc. THese are things that most people unfortunately commit. The main thing is God offers forgiveness through Christ' work on the cross. See, we

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
No Artur I am not a girl! But Why should girls be expected to be virgins while guys play the field? The bible condemns pre-marital *** for both men and women. I know the bible very well as I was a Baptist for most of my childhood. Of course, the Bible condemns lying, dishonoring parents etc. THese are things that most people unfortunately commit. The main thing is God offers forgiveness through Christ' work on the cross. See, we

---

Hi,
I'm sorry to intrude but I'm gonna answer this one. Girls are expected to be virgins because boys are expected to be brave. May be this sounds primitive, but just go inside the phsyciology of this.
Why did the USA lose the war in Vietnam? Because while the tough guys were fighting, lots of their girlfriends took the opportunity of relaxing with the cowards who stayed in the USA. I sure this was in the mind of every American soldger in Vietnam.
The same is with Karabagh. We won the war because our moral was high. I'm thinking about me. There is a danger of new war at present. Whom I'm going to fight for? For Sulamitas? Hell no!OK I'll fight for my motherland. But MOTHERLAND IS AN IDEA WHICH INCLUDES DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. Armenian girl's virginity is the second one after the territory. Believe me, this will be on every Armenian soldgers mind.
Sure we can talk about femail soldgers. But God created us different to enjoy it.
Virgin girl=Brave boy
This is the right formula. I'm not preaching Kazanovizm here, but the girls must realy hold their horses.

[Guest]

Sulamita. "... Aghjka MAQRUTYUN@ voroshvum e nranov te na vorqan hamardzakutyun uni kartsiq haytnelu - voch te nranov te inchpisi kyanq e varum kam inch eutyan ter e."

 

Haier jan knerek artahaituians hamar bayts petka asem - Orinak bozernel en shat hamardzak ev ankashkand artahaytvum, bayts iranc "boz" en asum, inchu? Vorovhetev irenk sirumen mekic aveli txamardkanc het kenakcel. Es vochel ardaracnumem "double standard" "marmand get" aprelakerpe, eteLA anbaroyutiun. Karochi orenqr asem, vor "comon sense"-a u dzez el mi kcek dodikneri "aygin" - ete minchev psakvelt frfrumes u kayfer es anum, heto etum naxdvumes mihat harifi vra, eti sxala u hayeren chi cavnert tanem.. et kochvuma anbaroyakanutiun, u ete uzumes mer Kristoneakan momentov xosank, Bible-ov et mexka. Luboi momentov vekalek et sxala. U ko intelekte chi voroshvum mi kani grakan barer mimyanc hetevic sharadrelov, karevore nersic inch mardes. Karoxa lav mardes, xoski hamardzak es, bayts es momentov mi ardaraci kam ardaracru urishnerin. Exav? Davay de.

[Guest]

I agree that it is one of the best feelings knowing that your wife is virgin. But what if she is not? Does it matter?

Do we deprive the women from the right to fall in love (before getting married) and enjoy one of the greatest enjoyments in life ; *** ? I don’t think this is fair , unless men stay virgin too…

What is this bull.. about men being brave and women virgin? Doesn’t each of us have the greatest respect and love for our mothers? Are they less brave than our fathers and brothers?

Don’t get me wrong , I am not suggesting that women should spread their legs wide open , but after all they are getting in love and having fun with men like us. It takes two to tango.

 

One of the guys is so open minded that he calls ‘brothers’ the Turks and the Azeris , but when it comes to women , he is traditional . !!!!! It seems we are open minded , wherever it suits us. Shame......

 

Steve seems to be a very educated and clever guy, I think we should pay more attention with what he has to say. Not that we should agree with all his points , but we all gain something by exchanging ideas and knowledge.

[Guest]

God gave us consciousness to be different from animals! *** was not ment to be taken as fun. OK if we take our deep feelings and instincts we are pure animals. But we have soul and consciousness to control our instinct and feelings. If we don't use them, we are bringing ourselvs down to the level of animals.

Concerning the equality of boys and girls. If girls don't give boys will never get it unless they comit a crime.