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Is Armenian Imprecise?


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#21 gamavor

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 05:27 PM

QUOTE
Buffet: Draxd


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#22 Arpa

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Arvestaked @ Aug 5 2005, 11:24 PM)
The link goes nowhere in particular.

Is "tsirani" something people actually say or did you make it up yourself -- as a color for the flag, I mean?

So "grey" is "gorsh" and "brown" is "toukh."



Yes I noticed that. For some reason I can't zero in on the thread.
Conduct a search using "tsirani" and look fot Prunus Armeniaca by Mosjan. I think it is under the categoty of "OTHER"

BTW. It is forbidden smile.gif smile.gif on this forum to say "Karmir Kapuyt Narnjaguyn".
Ask MosJan.
We use "Karmir Kapuyt Tsirani".

#23 Anoushik

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 12:47 AM

QUOTE (Arvestaked @ Aug 5 2005, 02:45 PM)
German is infamous for creating words from combination. That's why they end up with such long words.

Since this discussion was begun, maybe someone can answer this. Is there more than one word for "brown" in Armenian? The only one I know of is "suhrjakuyn" -- coffee color. But coffee has only really been in the Middle East for no more than a thousand years. What was "brown" before that? They probably didn't call it "crap color" but they had to describe their crap somehow.

Shaganakaguyn. Hazel.

#24 Arvestaked

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 06:15 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Aug 5 2005, 03:59 PM)
Yes I noticed that. For some reason I can't zero in on the thread.
Conduct a search using "tsirani" and look fot Prunus Armeniaca by Mosjan. I think it is under the categoty of "OTHER"

BTW. It is forbidden smile.gif smile.gif on this forum to say "Karmir Kapuyt Narnjaguyn".
Ask MosJan.
We use "Karmir Kapuyt Tsirani".



Well, I do know what dziran is. I just didn't know it was considered a color. Even then, though, the color itself doesn't have its own word, like garmeer and gabuyd.

#25 hytga

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE
So "grey" is "gorsh" and "brown" is "toukh."
i don't know about toukh but brown is also shaganakaguin

btw tsirani is just an alias not a color. narnjaguin is the color for orange color

#26 Harut

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 02:08 AM

just a side note... the royal gown in is also refered to as ծիրանի [tsirani]...

#27 Arpa

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 11:59 AM

Harut, was it you who brought the case of the "tsoren"?
I can't find it.

I wonder if the “tsoren” is derived not only from its phonetic similarity to “tsiran” but also from this passage from Andranik Zarukian’s Tukht Ar Yerevan;

Յիշում ես ապա?
Արիւնից ծորած երիզ մի կարմիր,
Երկնքից պոկուած կտոր մի կապոյտ,
Հասուն հասկերի շող նարնջագոյն
Եւ վեց դարերի խաւարի վրայ
..... Դրո~շ Եռագոյն….

Hishum es apa?
Aryunits tsorats eriz mi karmir,
Erknqits pokvats ktor mi kapuyt,
Hasun haskeri shogh narnjaguyn
Ev vets dareri khavari vra
Drosh eraguyn…


QUOTE
Hytga
i don't know about toukh but brown is also shaganakaguin


btw tsirani is just an alias not a color. narnjaguin is the color for orange color

QUOTE
Arvestaked
Well, I do know what dziran is. I just didn't know it was considered a color. Even then, though, the color itself doesn't have its own word, like garmeer and gabuyd



QUOTE
Harut
just a side note... the royal gown in is also refered to as ծիրանի [tsirani]…


A short history; Mind you. The color purple may not have any esthetic value except that, as seen below it is its scarcity and the fact it was only affordable by the royalty that made so valuable.
http://www.mountleba...tributions.html
Purple Dye

Sidon and Tyre were reputed to produce the finest purple dye for garments. The dye was extracted from the murex, a mollusc found on the Mediterranean shore. In the 4th century, 12 ounces (325g) of purple dye was selling for the equivalent of $25,000 US. This high price made it accessible only to the extremely rich, mostly royalty, which is why it later became known as royal purple.


Most Eng-Arm dictionaries will translate purple as tsirani. One doe not have to be spectrographer to know that tsirani is not purple. The reason for that is that both tsirani and purple are royal colors. Tsirani is not only the royal color of Armenia, look around you, tell us what color do the Buddhist monks wear. Saffron?, What color is that?

I have said this a million times, I will say it again, I will repeat it until I turn purple in the face.
Any color word in the so called Armenian that ends with -guyn is not native Armenian, most of them are translations from other languages, primarily from a nonexistent language-Turkish. Mokhraguyn is a direct translation from the Turkish kul-irengi, srjaguyn etc. Also note that -ireng in Turkish is also Armenian “erang” Even if borrowing and retro-transltion may enrich and embellish our vocabulary and sometimes it may come handy in poetry etc. we basically don’t need to supersede and obscure our own language with the likes of mokhraguyn when we have gorsh, srjaguyn when we have toukh and specially narnjaguyn when we tsirani or evn oski if you will (BTW tsirani is common with the Persian “zar” that means gold.)


http://www.jolique.c...le_passion3.htm

There are references to murex in other religious texts as well. According to the New Testament of the Bible, on the day of his crucifixion, Jesus was dressed with a crown of thorns and his body clothed in a purple garment usually reserved for royalty (Mark 15:17). The latter was no doubt a sarcastic gesture by his detractors who chanted, "Hail, King of the Jews!" Although Jensen (104) states that "Muslims did not value purple," Islamic texts suggest its value, and its subsequent repudiation by the Muslim prophet Muhammed. As if to demonstrate his humble, ascetic lifestyle, Muhammad said, "I do not ride on purple [saddle-cloth], or wear a garment dyed with saffron, or wear a shirt hemmed with silk" (Robson, 918). During the reign of Queen Elizabeth I, purple-hued clothing was a luxury permitted only to "Dukes, Marquesses, Erles, their children or Barons & knights of the order" (Elizabeth I 1559: 2). Today, Pope John Paul II often makes public appearances in purple robes, though the source for the dye may be an insect (a less costly substitute introduced by Pope Paul II in 1464) or a synthetic dye—not the murex shellfish (Druding 1982).
Although there are a number of inexpensive chemical substitutes for murex, purple is still the color of the royal and religious. As Alice Walker once said, "I think it pisses God off if you walk by the color purple in a field somewhere and don't notice it." For thousands of years, purple has been a color that commands attention.
May 15, 2001
Bibliography:
Astour, Michael C.

Edited by Arpa, 11 August 2005 - 06:55 AM.


#28 Iran Forever

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 19 2005, 09:24 PM) View Post
Maybe it's because historically, Armenians rarely encountered gorillas or other exotic animals in Armenia, so no word was formed to caracterize those animals.

For Ape, I say ''gorilla'' with an Armenian accent, making it look like it's an Armenian word. biggrin.gif

This is not only exclusive in the Armenian language. For example, when the Turks reached the Middle-East and Anatolia, they saw books, papers, schools for the first time! So all they could do is learn the Arabic words for those objects (kitab, defter, medrese...) and include them in their so-called language. They also stole Greek words when they saw fish, etc...

The Armenian language has a lot things other languages don't have. For example, a unique alphabet! smile.gif We're also lucky we have words like heradesil (tv), inknasharj (car), heratsayn (telephone), hamatsants (internet), etc. Other languages, notably Turkish, would just steal the words from other languages. biggrin.gif
btw for gorilla, it's martagabig biggrin.gif

That is very true, Dave, you and your neighbor the Georgians are among the few people in the world who have their very own alphabet, unique to your own languages...I heard the Armenian alphabet was later modified by the Ethiopians in creating the Amharic alphabet.

#29 DominO

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 07:55 PM

QUOTE(Iran Forever @ Jul 6 2006, 09:43 PM) View Post
That is very true, Dave, you and your neighbor the Georgians are among the few people in the world who have their very own alphabet, unique to your own languages...I heard the Armenian alphabet was later modified by the Ethiopians in creating the Amharic alphabet.


Ethiopians alphabet precede the Armenian one. They look the similar, but are not related.

Edited by QueBeceR, 06 July 2006 - 07:55 PM.


#30 Dave

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 09:29 AM

QUOTE
That is very true, Dave, you and your neighbor the Georgians are among the few people in the world who have their very own alphabet, unique to your own languages...I heard the Armenian alphabet was later modified by the Ethiopians in creating the Amharic alphabet.


If the Georgians have their own alphabet, it is largely thanks to us. Mesrob Mashdots, the genius who created the Armenian alphabet, also worked to create the Georgian one.

If the Caucasian Albanians still existed today, they would have also been using a unique alphabet, thanks to Mesrob Mashdots, as he created another one for the Albanians.

The Ethiopian alphabet, unlike the Armenian one, has semitic origins. Nevertheless, it is alleged that Mashdots created it.

There are some striking similarities:
http://www.mabot.com.....shirt BW.html

#31 Harut

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 03:10 AM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 7 2006, 08:29 AM) View Post
If the Georgians have their own alphabet, it is largely thanks to us. Mesrob Mashdots, the genius who created the Armenian alphabet, also worked to create the Georgian one.

If the Caucasian Albanians still existed today, they would have also been using a unique alphabet, thanks to Mesrob Mashdots, as he created another one for the Albanians.

The Ethiopian alphabet, unlike the Armenian one, has semitic origins. Nevertheless, it is alleged that Mashdots created it.

There are some striking similarities:
http://www.mabot.com.....shirt BW.html


it is said that one sunny summer day, mesrop mashtots was enjoying his lunch with group of collegues in his padio in vagharshapat... on that day they were having fine italian spaggetti... the door to the padio opened and three dumb-faced individuals entered... obiously georgians, they were there to beg the master to create alphabet for georgians... angred by the barrage of beggars for alphabets for different nations since his creatation of the armenian one, mashtots banged his fist on the table... "ENOUGH!!!"... the fine plate of spaggetti jumped on the air and landed on the ground, creating a mess on the patio floor... looking at what he had done, mashtots yelled... "THERE... THERE ARE LETTERS..." pointing to bizzar looking shapes on the floor created by the spaggetti that was now covering most of the patio floor... amased and mashtots's brilance, the three georgians got on their knees, thanked the master, and starting finding their letters among the spaggetti....... and that's how the georgian alphabet was created...

#32 Zartonk

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 07:27 PM

Heh Heh! Sweet one Harut (Too bad that's exactly what happened wink.gif )

biggrin.gif

Edited by Zartonk, 01 April 2009 - 06:59 PM.





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