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IDLE NOISE EMANATING FROM BITLIS


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#81 sen_Vahan

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 07:56 AM

Thanks , Domino, for the posts.
Actually, the old question still remains - were Armenians in majority in some eastern vilayets? this is the key point. if according to turkish sources there were 2.500 000 Armenians then obviously in Van, Erzrum, Bitlis with the highest Arm populations they were in majority.
And it seems that Patriarchat's figures are in fact correct.
Vahan

#82 Guest_Fadi_*

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Posted 14 March 2002 - 10:05 AM

The number of 2,5 million is a little vague, because these numbers have been probably taken in a time when the Ottoman considered to put his hand on some territories... but still considering it, we will suppose that near 2 million Armenians lived in Ottoman...

The 2/3 quota presented during the Turkish military after war tribunal, and their official statistics of the killed, and taking in account of Djemal memoir recognising how much Armenians have been deported(he stat in his memoire 1,5 million, and him and other references suppose that there is around 500,000 not deported), we found out around 2,250,000 Armenians, but still we have no idea how they place the population taking in acount the dispertions, so for this, I think the better thing to do is to take the German number of 1,925,000 as the most resonable number.

Toynbee, even him lets us believe there was around 1,9 million Armenian.

"The most "neutral" course under the circumstances is to halve the difference, and to take the number provisionally as being 1,600,000, with the qualification that the true figure certainly lies between this and 2,000,000, and probably approaches more closely to the LATTER."

If some can correct me if I am wrong(maybe from my English understanding), if we take a middle value we end up with 1,8 million, and his supposition of being nearer to the later(2 million) we can suppose that it could be around 1,9 million.

So I believe that the number of 1,925,000 match the closest with the actual number and is conservatif and not an exagerated one, and from this number I believe possibly 1,150,000 died... these are the post reasonate numbers, but here I do not include territories out-side of the Ottoman, so if we are to fix the number to 1,5 million, it is a number that makes a lots of sens for the total World Armenian losses from 1908-1924, and even more since I come to a conclusion of a little more then 1,6 million... of course some could say that all didnt died of massacres, and they would have a point, but the between 4-5 million Jews that died prior, and at the end of WWII, are also the total number of victims. So to be fair we must count the total losses, or if not, then on the other side we should substract from the Jewish victims by using a kind of methodology like counting the victims per population in Germany and the other places in Question, then substract it from the Jewish per population and count as victims the per-population that is left and then give a number like this... but when we talk about genocide, this kinds of methods are not used because simple as it is, it wasent the war of the Armenians, like it wasent the war of the Jews, the Germans fighted their war, the Turks fighted theirs, and for this, it would have been understanded that many Germans and Turks would have died... Armenian and Jewish victims were not war victims, thats the difference.




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