65 replies to this topic

[MosJan]

President Kocharian Says Armenia Has No Right to Ban Dual Citizenship

YEREVAN (Armenpress)--Armenian president Robert Kocharian said that this year alone, 470 former residents of Armenia lost their Armenian citizenship after becoming citizens of other countries. "The strength of the country is not only measured by the number of its permanent residents but also by the number of its citizens," he told Yerevan State University students and professors.

He argued in favor of lifting the constitutional ban on dual citizenship enacted in 1995, saying 70 percent of those leaving the country would likely retain their Armenian citizenship. "We are losing our citizens," he said.

But he also stressed that the government must first concentrate on what needs to be done to stop emigration, then think of bringing Armenians back to their homeland.

"A nation with such an extensive diaspora has no right to apply a ban on dual citizenship. We can regulate all questionable issues by laws to eradicate all concerns, such as the right of diaspora Armenians to vote and get elected to a public office in Armenia," Kocharian said. "I feel pain every time I have to sign documents revoking people's Armenian citizenship."

A package of constitutional amendments that will be put to the national referendum on November 27 lifts the ban on dual citizenship.

[gamavor]

Finally!

[MosJan]

PASSPORT OF RA IS NO TOY

“The adoption of dual citizenship for Armenia is like giving away our lands. It almost means to eliminate our statehood”, announced David Shahnazaryan today during the seminar organized by the Political Investigations Center “Agreement”.

Advocate Vardan Haroutyunyan represented the dangers awaiting un in case of eliminating the dual citizenship ban. He noted that it will give the Armenians living abroad the possibility to participate in the governing of our country as there is not citizen without suffrage. And the stipulation of suffrage of dual citizens will give them the possibility to interfere with the internal affairs of our country.

Head of the Political Investigations Center Rouben Mehrabyan noted that by means to dual citizenship Russia will be able to legally interfere with the internal affairs of our country.

Generally, the complaints of the main part of reporters were especially about RF. For example, chief editor of the newspaper “Aravot” Aram Abrahamyan announced that if the dual citizens have the right to be elected, the majority of the RA Parliament will be formed by the RF citizens who can made a decision to build a cosmodrome in Moscow at the expense of Armenian tax-payers.

Aram Abrahamyan announced that the dual citizenship clause stretches a hand to the Armenians of the Diaspora, and he is against doing this at the expense of the citizens of Armenia. Besides, he announced that those people who left Armenia in different times, must not have the same rights as the citizens of Armenia.

And advocate Vardan Haroutyunyan noted that the expression “Armenia is the homeland of Armenians” is one of purest nationalism.
And ex-mayor of Yerevan Vahagn Khachatryan noted that dual citizenship is not a good thing, and as soon as the Armenians from the Diaspora learn that their sons must serve in the RA army and they must pay taxes, they do not “dream” of becoming a citizen of Armenia. “The RA passport is not a toy they want to play with. If they are citizens of Armenia, they must renounce other citizenships and come to Armenia”, Aram Abrahamyan said.

Politician Stepan Safaryan mentioned that he sees the danger of Armenians leaving their homeland with the adoption of dual citizenship.

[MosJan]

«DUAL CITIZENSHIP WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF ECONOMY»

According to economist Tatoul Manaseryan the adoption of Constitutional amendments in present conditions in unacceptable. As for the dual citizenship institute, the economist claims that it will not affect the development of the economy of the country.

«Dual citizenship will not contribute to the growth of investments and tax payments unless the field is healthy. The Armenians from the Diaspora who realize economic activity in Armenia do not care about the adoption of dual citizenship. Only the formation of an atmosphere of mutual trust and the guarantees for equal competition conditions for everyone can contribute to the development of economy».
According to Tatoul Manaseryan dual citizenship is necessary for those Armenians who left their country but still want to have connections with it. In any case the economist finds the adoption of the law dangerous as, «Not everyone wishing to get dual citizenship will be kind and sincere in their aims».

[MosJan]

GALOUST SAHAKYAN FOUND OUT A CASE OF «TAUTOLOGY»

Member of the Republican Party Galoust Sahakyan thinks dual citizenship has a symbolic meaning. “The introduction of dual citizenship into the draft was a result of political concession. After long discussions the coalition accepter the offer of ARF. Even if the right of the dual citizens to elect or to be elected is stipulated by the law, it will not work. Dual citizenship is mainly connected with our national problems and not legislative norms. If a US citizen has dual citizenship, USA will not allow him to participate in RA elections or serve in the RA army”.

According to Mr. Sahakyan, the world experience has shown that dual citizenship is not justified. He does not share the opinion that the right of dual citizens to vote will give other counties the possibility to affect the Presidential elections in Armenia. “It is an illiterate political formula, and more like a case of tautology. Does it mean that Bush can come to Armenia and be elected President? If we forget about our national values, everything will happen”.

[Eloren]

Nothing makes me more angry than an Armenian not considering the diasporans as "armenians".

he announced that those people who left Armenia in different times, must not have the same rights as the citizens of Armenia

Oh yeah, sorry! It is absolutely my fault if my great grand parents were slaughtered by turks and had to flee in a foreign country! Damn, now I must not consider myself as an armenian.

This is all BS.. Denying dual citizenship will not help the Diasporan armenians to return back. My french passport is more beneficient for now than an armenian one. I might change the day Armenia enters in the EU.

Politician Stepan Safaryan mentioned that he sees the danger of Armenians leaving their homeland with the adoption of dual citizenship.

As if they were not already leaving the country.. Closing doors to armenians outside will not help the country developp..

«Not everyone wishing to get dual citizenship will be evil in their aims»

[MosJan]

ADOPTING DUAL CITIZENSHIP ARMENIA WILL HAVE TO STRIVE FOR INDEPENDENCE AGAIN

YEREVAN, NOVEMBER 9. ARMINFO. "Adopting dual citizenship Armenia will have to strive for independence again," declared the participants of a seminar dedicated to the Constitutional amendments at the "Congress" hotel. The seminar was organized by the "Armenian National Movement" party and the "Concordance" social studies center.

Vardan Harutiunian, a lawyer, noted that the Constitutional reforms must contribute the development of the country. He said that the most important point of the new Constitution is the question of dual citizenship. He denoted the question of the military service and taxation of people with dual citizenship. Mr. Harutiunian warned that Russia can use dual citizens for influencing the policy of Armenia.

The editor-in-chief of the "Aravot" newspaper, Aram Abrahamian, said that the only defect of the new Constitution is the article on dual citizenship. He noted the importance of dual citizenship for the representatives of the Armenian diaspora, but also warned that Armenian Parliament deputies, being admitted the citizenship, of other countries can betray the interests of Armenia.

The head of the "Concordance" social studies center, David Shahnazarian, agreed with the position of Mr. Aram Abrahamian and said that the idea of adoption of dual citizenship is mainly supported by foreign citizens.

arminfo

[gamavor]

The argument that duel citizenship will jeopardize somehow the political stability in the country is sligthly exagerated. It made sense few years back, but not anymore.

Such desision should not be something that Republic of Armenia would agree to grant, but rather a political understanding reflecting the curent and future development of Armenia.

[skhara]

My question is, how easy is it for an Armenian to get Armenian citizenship if he/she wants to live in Armenia. If there isn't any kind of complicated due process, then what is wrong with saying "if you want Armenian citizenship, than come live in Armenia.

[Harut]

My question is, how easy is it for an Armenian to get Armenian citizenship if he/she wants to live in Armenia. If there isn't any kind of complicated due process, then what is wrong with saying "if you want Armenian citizenship, than come live in Armenia.

it's relatively easy, unless you're Raffi Hovhanissian and want to run for the presidency...

[Aaron]

Some people are really making a big deal out of this issue! Interference of other countries in armenia's inner affairs, people leaving the country, not giving satisfaction to diasporans, etc.

kavat me churi mech kheghtvetsank?

In short, with the amended constitution and proper laws, the deal should be something like:

You were born and raised outside Armenia? you can become a citizen if you come here and serve in the army, for a certain period and if you are under 27-30. If you are over 30, no need to serve but you'll have to pay taxes. In all cases you'll get citizenship only if you live here for a given period of time, meaning to be a pemanent resident and paying taxes (just like in any other country, ex: 1 or 2 years, including military service), you'll get the right to vote if you stay even longer (ex. 5 years or more). You get the right to be elected after an even longer period (ex. 10 years).

You're an armenian that left Armenia in the last 15 years? You can have citizenship but voting rights only if you have been a permanent resident (lived in Armenia and have payed taxes) for 5 years (or longer). If you are under 30 (or 27), you still have to serve in the Army.

This way, those who really want to become citizens while keeping their other citizenship, can do it and participate in Armenia's life.

That's it! No need to make a drama out of it!

This was my personal view and details will be decided when voting the laws in parliament of course!

A.

Edited by Aaron, 10 November 2005 - 10:43 PM.

[Harut]

You're an armenian that left Armenia in the last 15 years? You can have citizenship but voting rights only if you have been a permanent resident (lived in Armenia and have payed taxes) for 5 years (or longer). If you are under 30 (or 27), you still have to serve in the Army.

i'm an armenian citizen under 27, but i still don't have to serve in the army... i've legally left the country for a permanent residancy in usa... therefore i'm not required to serve...
so... does someone under 27, who wishes to become armenian citizen, but still be a permanent resident of a foreign country have to serve in the army?

[Harut]

considering the state that the country is in now (faulty taxing system, high rate of desertion, officially still in war, etc), i think it is still too early to adopt dual citizenship...

[MosJan]

i'm an armenian citizen under 27, but i still don't have to serve in the army... i've legally left the country for a permanent residancy in usa... therefore i'm not required to serve...
so... does someone under 27, who wishes to become armenian citizen, but still be a permanent resident of a foreign country have to serve in the army?

aper indz yve qez banak chen tani aper - hech chmtatses

[Aaron]

Harut's first question: I think he should still serve in the Army...or don't go to Armenia before 27. Perhaps a paying system could be set up for people under 27 which allows avoiding military service by legally paying a considerable fee (I think it already exists). In any case, the law has to make it clear that you have to EARN your citizenship somehow (for someone from outside): permanent residency, tax paying, military service, major investment, etc. As for those who have left the country in the last 15 years, regulations should be much more flexible since they are the ones who most probably will return .... if return occurs! Also, I don't think duration of military service should be the same for someone born and raised in Armenia vs. someone born and raised outside and having never lived there previously.

For the second part: It's true, the country has a 1001 problems, but amending the constitution will not necessarily mean adoption of dual citizenship. The process of establishing appropriate laws through parliament may take long years and even longer debates within the politicians and the public..... bringing us closer to a solution. When you exchange ideas about something it becomes easier to solve it, no? Constitution amendments only eliminate a ban.... the rest is ours to decide!

Eventually, this issue should be solved so that Armenia does become a homeland of all armenians (someone could have more than 1 homeland, just as someone can have more than one house!). This is my stance.

A.

[Armen]

The argument that duel citizenship will jeopardize somehow the political stability in the country is sligthly exagerated. It made sense few years back, but not anymore.

The present change in the constitution that is going to be voted in the referendum along with other changes is not regulating dual citizenship. It is simply removing the paragraph that bans dual citizenship.

The only law that authomatically comes into force for potential dual citizens (the people who hold passports of 2 countries) is the RA Law on Citizenship. According to this law anyone who wants to become a RA citizen will have the same rights and responsibilities as all other RA nationals.

Armenia has to still pass a law on dual citizenship, ammend the current one or sign separate agreements with foreign countries regulating the process. There are many ways to regulate this in a way that will not jeopardize the stability. For example you can give all dual citizens a right to vote only in case they are in Armenia on the day of elections etc. etc.

So you are totaly right, Gams.

[M_Karazov]

Some people are really out of touch with reality. Banning dual citizenship??? Especially in any country of former SU this is a stupid and inhumane idea. Millions of people have been forcebily relocated outside their traditional homeland, the land of their forefathers. Look at the problems this gives for minorities staying outside their homeland and often in situations of less cultural rights then the dominant titular ethnic group. After the collapse of SU the demographic situation in many countries changed dramatically. Especially the Caucasian countries have seen two effects, a development of out-migration of the original ethnic group. like Armenians, Georgians and Azeri's to Russia but an even faster out-migration of minorities from the Caucasian countries. Look at Azerbaijan, the country had a population of 8 million before 1991. I have met many Russians born in Baku now living in Moscow and other Russian cities, so we can safely assume most Slavic inhabitans, especially the younger ones have returned to Russia or Ukraine. The Armenian inhabitans also left due to obvious reasons, so the majority of the millions of non-Azeri nationalities have left the country. Sunni Azeri's have started to migrate to Turkey most likely not to return. Are left Shia Azeri's from whom some 1,5 alone are living in Moscow and many millions more in other Russian cities and provinces.
Same goes for Armenia and Georgia. If these countries just give passports to residents staying in the country they would not need much papers, as there are just a fraction of the residents of 1991.

What we can say now is that any Caucasian country is heading in two directions:
-Becoming more and more mono-ethnic as result of minorities returning to their own countries
-Huge outmigration even by the ethnic majority group to places with more employement

The first development is permanent for sure and will only increase since the rates for minorities are still higher. The second development is resulted for economic reasons and is likely not to be permanent. Many Armenians are working for a few months in Russia and for a few months in Armenia. For the first they should receive solid working permits, for the second an Armenian passport. If the Armenian economy improves people will at first stay longer in Armenia and after a while permanently. Take Baku for example, the Russians, Armenians, Jews, Tatars, etc. came for economic reasons, to make money and now Moscow is the booming town. The Caucasian cities can experience the same again when there is peace and no ethnic tension. This is the main reason why Georgia went from the most affluent to the poorest country of CIS, but still there is enormous potential. And if this potential of Caucasian countries is realised there will be need for returning of its citizens. With the right passports off course.

Edited by M_Karazov, 09 December 2005 - 07:38 PM.

[Lev7]

My question is, how easy is it for an Armenian to get Armenian citizenship if he/she wants to live in Armenia. If there isn't any kind of complicated due process, then what is wrong with saying "if you want Armenian citizenship, than come live in Armenia.

if you have enough cash, everything is possible in Armenia

[Lev7]

YEREVAN (YERKIR) - With 66 pro, 5 con votes and 1 abstention, Armenian
National Assembly adopted the amendments to the Law on dual citizenship
at second reading. The United Labor party voted against. The opposition
did not participate in the voting.

Let us remind that this amendment establishes the institute of dual
citizenship in the republic and our compatriots residing in different
sites of the world gain the right to elect and be elected.

Dual citizens cannot run for president and parliament, they will not
be allowed to be members of the Constitutional Court.

According to Justice Minister David Harutyunyan, political
agreement has been reached on the following issue: "Dual citizens
who have no place of registration in Armenia will not participate
in elections. Correspondingly, dual citizens having a place of
registration in Armenia attain franchise. In fact, no additional
precincts will be opened for citizens not registered in Armenia.