Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Խաչագող


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Boghos

Boghos

    -= Mr Nobility =-

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,754 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil
  • Interests:literature, cinema, chess, history

Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:33 PM

This one is for Arpa. Please fire away!

#2 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 04 August 2011 - 06:39 PM

Yes Boghos, :)
Խաչագող,Cross Thief.
I have personally known a few of them, who were ironically but not surprisingly, clergy themselves.
--
The first Instance I remember is from the Les Miserables by Victor Hugo.

Despite the compassion shown to him, Valjean wakes up in the night, steals the silverware (it's really silver) of the household and makes off. In the morning, the police find him and bring him back to the Bishop. Valjean lies and tells the police that the Bishop gave him the silverware.

Then, of course is Raffi’s masterpiece - Խաչագողի Յիշատակարանը;
I thought it was posted here at HyeForum but I can’t find it.

http://hayeren.hayas...ffiXachagox.pdf

I do remember, a few years ago relics from the Jerusalem Patriachate were being auctioned somewhere in the south USA. Was it Texas or Arizona?
What is even more disturbing is that many of these seem to be inside jobs.
And now the latest;

http://hetq.am/eng/news/2812/

Manuscript Pages Stolen from Isfahan Armenian Church

23:31, July 9, 2011
The weekly paper Araks reports that pages from a manuscript belonging to the Armenian Church of the Holy Savior in Isfahan, Iran, have turned up for auction in London.
News of the incident was made by the Diocesan Council of the Church in Isfahan. The Council says that it has hired the services of experts in the field and that it is preparing to take appropriate legal action.
There is no mention of when the theft of the manuscript pages took place or why church officials didn't inform the community before.


Edited by Arpa, 05 August 2011 - 05:09 PM.


#3 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:42 AM

OK Boghos.
Do you have a good Maraahtsi lawter? Sue me for խաչագողանք/ piracy. :)
Since this thread is under the category of Language, allow me the liberty. Hi Azat! :D

There are over 90 entries based and related to խաչ/khach in the Dictionary of Synonyms , some of which quite surprising.
In the meantime allow me to rename Armenia Խաչաստան/Khachastan. **
We will see why.
I will try and follow with some of the entries, with some omissions as some of them are repetitious and cross referenced.
Oddly enough, of all there is no entry for խաչբառ/crossword.
Hi Harut! :P

http://www.armtimes.com/tag/2558

http://hy.wikipedia....:Khachbar-4.jpg

http://www.encyclope.../Image_3997.jpg

** The most surprising is Խաչերով Քաղաք. Խաչքաղաք= Գերեզմանատուն. City of Crosses-Cemetery

#4 Boghos

Boghos

    -= Mr Nobility =-

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,754 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil
  • Interests:literature, cinema, chess, history

Posted 05 August 2011 - 01:01 PM

What can I say, dear Arpa, you never disappoint me!

#5 Boghos

Boghos

    -= Mr Nobility =-

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,754 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil
  • Interests:literature, cinema, chess, history

Posted 05 August 2011 - 01:10 PM

Գերեզմանատուն this is actually quite interesting...I am not aware of any other language, not that it means much, where the word "cross" is used so widely...

#6 MosJan

MosJan

    Էլի ԼաՎա

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,014 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:My Little Armenia

Posted 05 August 2011 - 02:45 PM

baxtavor mardiq eq.. miyan mi qani xachagogh janachelu..

#7 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:46 PM

Before we get ahead of ourselves, let us see what the words ԽԱՉ/khach and ԳՈՂ/gogh mean and their origin.
This from the Wiki- is very concise , yet it does refer to the origin as the PIE “khet”, and the Persian خاده (xāda/khada).
Please observe all the words based on it. It will save me a ton of typing.
Of all the derivations, the below omits among many such like Khachatour (“oops: it does.) and Khachik. To not forget that in the Armenian “khach” also means վիշտ/grief, բեռ/onus.

ԳՈՂ= Խաբեբայ ծածուկ

Gogh= Thief, deceipt, disguised, covered. The latter is interesting, even though Ajarian does not go that far, consider the word (different spelling) քող/qogh/ veil.
“Գող, սիրտը դող“. “ Գողը գողէն գողացավ, Աստուած տեսավ զարմացավ”


http://spiritlessons...SimionHelp2.jpg

Posted Image

Most of the below refer to its ecclesiastical/religious inference. There some additions as well as some omissions to the list in the dictionary of synonyms

Derived terms
աստուածախաչ
բազմախաչ
խաչաբարձ
խաչագլուխ
խաչադրոշմ
խաչադրօշ
խաչադրօշեալ
խաչազարդ
խաչազգեաց
խաչազգեստ
խաչազգեստեալ
խաչալուայ
խաչակալ
խաչական
խաչակառք
խաչակերպ
խաչակերտ
խաչակիր
խաչակից
խաչակնիք
խաչակնքեմ
խաչակրօն
խաչակցեմ
խաչակցիմ խաչակցութիւն
խաչահան
խաչահանու
խաչահանութիւն
խաչաձեւ
խաչամահ
խաչամարտութիւն
խաչայարդար
խաչանամ
խաչանիշ
խաչանկար
խաչանման
խաչանմանութեամբ
խաչանշան
խաչաչարչար
խաչապաշտ
խաչապէս
խաչապան
խաչապսակ
խաչասփռեմ
խաչավերաց
խաչատարած
խաչատեաց
խաչատեսակ խաչատեսակաբար
խաչատիպ
Խաչատուր
խաչաւարտ
խաչափայլ
խաչափայտ
խաչափառ
խաչաքարոզ
խաչգիւտ
խաչելեալ
խաչելութիւն
խաչեմ
խաչենակ
խաչենեակ
խաչեցող
խաչիչ
խաչկրօն
խաչհանու
խաչող
խաչունակ
խաչվերաց
խաչք
խաչօրհնէք


http://en.wiktionary...org/wiki/Õ­Õ¡Õ¹

In addition to the below Ajarian says;

ԽԱՉ= Մահապարտներին վրան կախելու փայտ , որ յետոյ եղաւ Քրիստոնէութեան նշան. փխբր, Վիշտ չարչարանք


Wooden structure used as an instrument to execute those condemned to death., that eventually became a symbol of Christianity. Allegorically- grief , torture.
It goes on to cite some of the variations and dialectical forms of the word which is very interesting and surprising as we will see in another item.
We will come back to the below,

ԽԱՉ- Etymology-From Old Armenian խաչ (xačʿ), from Proto-Indo-European *khet- (“stake, picket”). An ablaut of խոչ (xočʿ, “a piece of wood, stone protruding from ground upon which one may stumble, an obstacle”) and խէչ (xēčʿ, “prop, stay, on which plants are supported”). Thus, the initial meaning of the word was "stake, stick". The only other surviving cognate is Persian خاده (xāda, “a straight branch; a broom-stick; an oar; a coal-rake; a gibbet”).



#8 Boghos

Boghos

    -= Mr Nobility =-

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,754 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil
  • Interests:literature, cinema, chess, history

Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:54 PM

բախտավոր կամ միամիտ... :)

#9 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 05 August 2011 - 04:36 PM

բախտավոր կամ միամիտ... :)

Yes Boghos. NAIVE
We digress.
OK, MosJan tell us about them. I'm sure you know more. I have known more than a few. Speaking of NAIVE, and trusting, a few of them happened right here in my backyard, both involving parish priests and an unsuspecting, naive, trusting and faithful congregation. The first was a real խաչագող. After setting fires to the respective church structures and collecting insurance money... (his insurance agent, a good friend who is still my agent, asked me if I knew him, and I was embarassed to admit) He was evetually arrested for among others, shoplifting and moral crimes (and exhibitionist,even in the church to the women and girls of the congregation, that the police had known about).
The other, I liked him, he seemed so innocent. After a while, when at a gathering I did not see him and asked. They told me- "Oh, you didn't know? He was arrested for embezzling close to half a million of church funds?" How would I know? I go to church once every blue moon. Be it baptisms, weddings or funerals. Specifically to avoid seeing the faces of those khachagoghs.
Neither of them were officially defrocked by the Prelate but left to their volition to resign.
Is this the end of the story???

Edited by Arpa, 05 August 2011 - 04:55 PM.


#10 Boghos

Boghos

    -= Mr Nobility =-

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,754 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil
  • Interests:literature, cinema, chess, history

Posted 05 August 2011 - 05:23 PM

Raffi was right, what can I say.

#11 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 06 August 2011 - 06:31 AM

Raffi was right, what can I say.

Look;

http://hyeforum.com/...=1

#12 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 08 August 2011 - 11:09 AM

Here is the latest.

http://news.am/eng/news/70259.html


August 06, 2011 | 18:16 YEREVAN. - St Gevorg church in Marmarashen village of Armenia’s Shirak region was robbed on Friday.
Unknown entered the church at night and took the box for donations, carrying AMD 220,000 (U.S.600 $), the press service of Armenian Police informed Armenian News-NEWS.am.
An investigation is underway.



#13 Yervant1

Yervant1

    The True North!

  • Super Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,188 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 August 2011 - 12:09 PM

I'm having hard time believing that the church would leave $600 in the donation box overnight. :huh:

#14 ED

ED

    Քեռի

  • Nobility
  • 5,959 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Music, traveling, Salvador Dali, Tolstoy, Sevak, Charents
    wine, sushi and lots lots more

Posted 08 August 2011 - 12:16 PM

Yervant jan its understandable, as one of our great Hagop Baronian said.

Yerekoyan yerp yekexetsvo drner@ pakin, Xach Xorani Voskuts er, artu martik yegan at voskya xach@ paydener.

#15 MosJan

MosJan

    Էլի ԼաՎա

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,014 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:My Little Armenia

Posted 08 August 2011 - 01:44 PM

isk inchpes giteyin or $600 ka mej@ ? isk yete kar inchu cheyin hanel ??

#16 Yervant1

Yervant1

    The True North!

  • Super Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,188 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 August 2011 - 10:41 AM

isk inchpes giteyin or $600 ka mej@ ? isk yete kar inchu cheyin hanel ??

Yervant jan its understandable, as one of our great Hagop Baronian said.

Yerekoyan yerp yekexetsvo drner@ pakin, Xach Xorani Voskuts er, artu martik yegan at voskya xach@ paydener.

I can't be 100% sure, but the more I read this the more it looks like an internal job.

#17 Arpa

Arpa

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,011 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Culture

Posted 09 August 2011 - 11:43 AM

I can't be 100% sure, but the more I read this the more it looks like an internal job.

Yes, Yervant you took the words right out my mouth, I have been biting my tongue. As I have alluded above most of these are "inside jobs" .
As a rule a khachagogh is one that wears the khach at their chest.
Can we say խաչակրող/khachakrogh/bearer of cross?
Anonymous;
http://armenianchurc...ian-190x300.jpg

Edited by Arpa, 09 August 2011 - 11:48 AM.


#18 ED

ED

    Քեռի

  • Nobility
  • 5,959 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Music, traveling, Salvador Dali, Tolstoy, Sevak, Charents
    wine, sushi and lots lots more

Posted 09 August 2011 - 12:36 PM

oh come one people, i dont belive a clergiman in Armenia would do such a thing, I know what I'm saying, at 2009 when i was in surp Hrepsimeh church in Etchmiatsin, I wanted a cross to me blesses ( orthnel) at the end i ofered a gesture to the prist and he politly declined and said ASTVATS DZEZ HET
i DONT WANT TO POISEN MY SOUL, even if its thru, i stick and belive what i see, not what i read

#19 MosJan

MosJan

    Էլի ԼաՎա

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,014 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:My Little Armenia

Posted 09 August 2011 - 12:48 PM

I can't be 100% sure, but the more I read this the more it looks like an internal job.



#20 Zartonk

Zartonk

    Magnificent!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,764 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Մարդկության ու ճշմարտության միջև

Posted 10 August 2011 - 02:08 PM

Հիվանդ մարմինը ախտահանումից բացի բուժում է պահանճում...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users