25 replies to this topic

[khodja]

See Groong today re: Turkish News article of 4/10/02. Read the whole article. These guys want us to disappear. They claim that Russians placed us in Armenia to create a barrier between Turks and Central Asian Turks. And we are supposed to open a dialogue with these surreal bastards?

[koko]

[ June 13, 2002, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: koko ]

[Arine]

They're animals not humans.
All they're capable of is destroying what is not their's & killing others.
A Turk is always a Turk.
Even living around civilized nations doesn't change them a bit. I guess barbaric behavior is in their genes.

[MadArmo]

Not true they are human, But have tails and pointed ears!

We can beat them at this simple game of barbarian, Just become like them... Who said Armenians can't fight dirty too!? Stop showing your weakness and Nukeem, Do the Civilized nations a great deed and finish this dark chapter in human evolution...

[MosJan]

you need to hav a nuke in order to nukeem we do not have one yet

arine and mad - at one time i was just like you saying and yeling to nukeem and to killemm but have mett some nice turks in this forum - who do help - who are best friends to some. nukes a side and lets see if we can learn somthing... the only way to go is, respect and you will be respected by all of us...

Movses

[aurguplu]

hagarag,

i would appreciate if you gave the internet address of the said site so that i can check it (i am not technologically advanced).

a word of note: imbecility is not a crime under turkish penal code, and democracy means you can talk. if you have garbage in your brain, garbage will come out of your mouth. i think we are facing such a GIGO case.

i had not heard even the MHP mention something like that!

ps to arine: your attitude is very similar to these guys' attitude toward the armenians. hint, hint.

cheers,

[khodja]

Ali,

http://groong.usc.edu/news/.

[khodja]

Ali. Drop the last period.

http://grooong.usc.edu/news/

[khodja]

Ali,

First link works.

[aurguplu]

hagarag,

i checked the site and found the following links. i cannot see any turkish news article of the said date and content. i checked every item headline that contained "turk" in it.

sorry, but did i miss something?? i would appreciate if you could help.

thanks in advance for help,

regards,News Articles on -- Thursday, 13 June 2002
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Georgian churches in Turkey doomed to destruction
AAA: Detroit-Area Activists Host Assembly Membership Forum
Celebrate with Young Artists; Mahler's Fifth is on the house
50 Held in European Offshoot of Bank of New York Investigation
ARU Urges Parliament & Prez to Take Steps to Defend Country's Image
Visit of the NKR Minister of Foreign Affairs to the USA
Karagyozian Memorial Has Implemented Charity Programs for Children
Smuggled Marble Icon of great Cultural Value Returned to Armenia
Gyumri's Gohar Choir and Symphony Performs Internationally
France has changed its OSCE Minsk Group co-chairman
Czech police break up gang smuggling Armenians into EU countries
ANKARA: Union Leader Opposes EU Membership Involving Pol. Conditions
San Fran: 'I, Witness'
Sydney: Boxing: Fenech unleashes 'raging bull'
PRAGUE: Police breaks up gang smuggling Armenians
UK Bradford: 'Support industrial cities' urges peer
ANKARA: Turkey, Armenia forming ties, step by step
Women's Chess
GDP Growth in Armenia Was 9.3% in January-April of 2002
Armenia Thinks Realization of Concrete Anti-Terror Steps a Must
Eine Kleine launches summer series
PanArmenian News - 06/13/2002
PanArmenian News - 06/12/2002
ARKA News Agency - 06/13/2002
ARKA News Agency - 06/12/2002
RFE/RL Georgia/Russia: Naturalization Issue Further Strains Rel'ns
GT: Demands for President Kocharian's impeachment in Armenia
Down with motherhood?
AZG Armenian Daily #110 - 14/06/2002
PH Armenia Connectivity Meets with Armenian Network in Boston and DC
Libaridian again in Baku
1105 Diaspora-Armenians study in Armenia
RFE/RL Armenia Report - 06/13/2002
Hayastan fund says to continue nation-devoted projects
Yerevan Opera & Ballet House to see a major repair
Mcconnell Underscores Importance of Opening Armenia-Turkey Borders
Kocharian Receives Representatives of Youth and Students Orgs
The Government Raises Probability to Hold a Special Session
President meets the youth and students
Kocharian, Margaryan provide Armenian Youth Fund "spiritual support"
Armenian DM meets with newly appointed French co-chair of OSCE MG
Caucasus Reporting Service No. 133 - 06/13/2002
Training and Scholarships in Armenia
Armenian Mirror Spectator On-Line - 06/13/2002
Calendar of Events - 06/13/2002
Four Armenians Win "Internet Grand Prize" on Game "What Where When?"
Hearing of "Meltex" Ltd's Appeal to be Held Tomorrow
Armenian Teachers Win Contest "My Language is Your Friend"
Libaridian Discusses Artsax Problem in Baku
Chinese Official Arrives in Georgia on Four-Day Visit
Influential Armenian Businessman Dies in Car Crash
My Armenian Dinner
ANKARA: Transport and geopolitics in the South Caucasus
BHC: Neri Terzieva: "Interethnic 'bartering' is impossible"
BHC: How long will we keep forgetting about the Armenians?
RFE/RL Newsline - 06/13/2002
ANTELIAS: Assembly; Concluding session
ANTELIAS: HH Aram I and the Assembly delegation visit Lebanese Prez.
India, Russia & Iran To Iron Out Operational Issues

[ June 18, 2002, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: aurguplu ]

[khodja]

Ali,

I will try to find the article in Turkish News and the section dealing with that which I posted.

[khodja]

Ali,

Groong, Wednesday, June 12, 2002, 22:15:42 PDT "Meskhetian Turks Struggle for Repatriation in Georgia" by Mahmut Niyazi Sezgin, Turkish News, april 12, 2002. See Paragraph 4.

[aurguplu]

hagarag,

i wasn't around for a while and the groong of today doesn't get to before 22 june. anyways, i take your word for it.

regards,

[khodja]

Ali,

The article was posted in this forum by Ariane under "International." Article was about Turks in Georgia, but implication is that Russians settled Armenians in Kavkaz to seperate Turks from the Turks of Central Asia. Sorry, but Armenians have been in the region for thousands of years, pre-dating Turkish culture in that region by millenia.

[aurguplu]

hagarag,

i have read the stuff. true, at first sight it looks like that, but the guy might be right - i am not saying that he is - partially right after all. consider the following:

1. kurds have been in southeastern turkey, northern iraq and northwestern iran for a good 2,500 years and probably more. so you would take the clais of many kurds to their homeland at face value... and would be wrong: there has been going on tremendous shifts of entire peoples in the area at least since the turkish arrival in 1071 AD and possibly a good deal earlier. a great number of the tribes currently inhabiting part of the region were originally brought there by selim the grim and suleiman the magnificent in the 16th, and murad iv in the 17th centuries, to name but three occasions. there are also cases where entire turkish tribes became kurdish-speaking, and later, kurdish (this is not govt propaganda but actual historical fact): for instance, any kurd with a surname like batallı, badıllı badilli etc. comes from the oghuz tribe begdili.

2. the original inhabitants of istanbul were greeks until we showed up, right? right (well, no, actually, the earliest recorded ones were thracians, but this is beside the point). so the greek minority that still exists in istanbul and lives in the old, pre-ottoman greek quarters are descendants of the original inhabitants of the city, right? wrong! when mehmed ii conquered the city, he gave the greek natives the choice between staying in istanbul as christians, keeping their belongings (some churches excluded), and leaving the city with their movables. most chose to leave. he was a bit disappointed, for he wanted a city full of every race of the empire, so he took some greeks from the pontic region (sinop, if i remember correctly) and planted them there. so the istanbul greeks of today for the most part are descendants of these pontic greeks and not the original inhabitants of the city.

so after all it may very well be that there was indeed some armenian settlement of the region by the russians in the last few centuries. and the russians might indeed have thought of blocking our way to central asia by doing that. such things happen. in contested areas, people shift back and forth all the time. for instance, some places in nagorno-karabagh were inhabited by azeris for centuries and armenian settlement there was actually quite recent, in some places as recent as the last 150-200 years. then the azeris there became refugees, and armenians asserted their right to artzakh on the grounds that there were armenians there since time began. true and false, the armenians were there for a long time, but they were not the first, nor were they the only ones, nor did they inhabit the region uninterruptedly for the last three thousand years. history is not that simple.

what is ridiculous, though, is his refusal to admit that the armenians were there from about 1,000 bc anyway and both the russians and turks are latecomers. his claim that the area was inhabited by turks way before our arrival in the 10th century is absurd. this is the outfall of the kemalist policy of asserting our right to live in anatolia by using history. there are sporadic instances of turks in the area from the early centuries ad and perhaps late centuries bc, Herodotus talks about the Yrkai and Pliny the Elder about Yurcae and some other guys about the Turcae but that's about it.

i am afraid there will be such stuff emanating as long as the policy of denial and refusal to admit that armenians even existed as a culture continues. there are changes in that direction but changes are slow, fitful and painful. but things will get better.

cheers,

[khodja]

It was difficult for Western journalists to distinguish the Armenians from the Turks at the economic summit in Istambul last weekend. Both were speaking perfect Turkish and eating the same foods. They two groups even looked alike. I think that in these similariies lies the root of Turkish Armenophobia.

[aurguplu]

hagarag,

you may partly be right. this is what i would call "the identical looking perceived enemy syndrome". turks are quite aware of the fact that by and large most armenians look like turks, live like turks, eat like turks, etc. but there are certain differences that are mysterious and malignant (!), such as a different religion, a different language and names, and a separatist agenda. this makes them ever more suspicious. you perceive someone as an enemy but cannot pick him in a crowd. you know (or hold) that he wants to get away with a chunk of what you consider to be your land, and do in as many of your people as possible in the process, and keeps in the back of his head memories of days when you were not yet there (in anatolia) and dreams of days when you won't be there anymore. added to this is the extreme ignorance of things armenian on the turkish side (no turk speaks armenian, almost none have ever been to a church, an armenian home, never socialised with one, hardly ever seen one, and you get the picture.

i hold that it is impossible to get two feuding nations to make peace unless and until both sides know some hard facts about one another - and themselves. and i think that any book, tv programme, visit of an armenian cultural group, or any group of ordinary armenians to turkey will do far more than any two state delegates coming together and talking in the polite but dishonest language of diplomacy.

cheers,

[gamavor]

Ali,

Go jump in a lake. Deep enough. Arine is right. You would never ever change. Same asiatic barbarians in European clothes. You think someone will buy your historical bullshit.
Turks are invaders whose culture is close to the one of the cattle that they still like to have "fun" with. You are foreign body in a foreign land. Don't you get it. Constantinople was thracian...bullshit. They were some trachs, who actually constituted significant part of the Greek ethnos and culture. Just like Armens amalgamated with the rest of Armenian tribes in Armenian plateau.

Your "brothers in arms" tried to eliminate the Armenian factor which was present in so-called Turkey, long before your animal ancestors came to Asia Minor. Blaming Russians that they "implanted" Armenians there is cheap shot. Very cheap shot. Knowing the thinking abilities of our "all similar" neighbors, I'm not surprised of consuming this garbage offered for public circulation. Don't worry. Kurds will have their state, soon or later because that is inevitable.

[aurguplu]

gamavor,

your post barely deserves a reply. please read my postings CAREFULLY before you answer them so that you don't repeat the things in them thinking that you are refuting a statement of mine.

as for us being a foreign body in a foreign land, so are most people these days. are the whites in america native? plus we are as much anatolian as everyone else in terms of genetics, everyday life, popular religion etc. it is islam that distinguishes us from the rest and not much else.

that was probably the poorest reply i ever got since i joined the forum.

[khodja]

Ali,

"Gamavor" is a attorney who doesn't seem at times to speak from his brain. He is not at all a gamavor of the Armenian cause, as he seems to be ruled by his emotions. I do not know his family history or his life's history but I do know mine. I am also angry, but I realize that there are serious problems with the Armenian approach to the world. I have no doubt that the Armenian fanaticism regarding religious dogma contributes to the Armenian-Turkish rift as much as the fanatic Islamists in Turkey who consider the Armenians unbelievers.