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Harout Pambukjyan


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#21 Guest__*

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Posted 10 October 2000 - 04:31 PM

MJ as I said I'm not a big fan of Harout and your or others opinion doesn't insult me at all. I just want to know the criterias you use to rate a singer. Actually I don't care about the singers too much. For me the main thing is their songs. And I'm not trying to separate the lyric from the music. In good songs I think they fulfill each other.
What is important in the song - lyric, the music or the way he/she signs that song? I think it depends on the genre of the song (opera, jazz, rock, rap and so on).
Why should I care much about how primitive is the music in Vladimir Visotski's songs, or what's the meaning of the words when I listen to Pavarotti or Armstrong.

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Posted 10 October 2000 - 04:41 PM

Barev dzez

GAro jan yete kartsum ek ( bolort ) iydpes e harmar inchu che terapoxenk,

iyn inch vor gitem Harut Pambukjyan`i masin yev inch vor yes em kartsum n@ra masin .

Tsnvel metsatsel e Yerevaum /-> Nor- Aresh
Mijnakarg usum -> #43 dprotsum
Yerashtakan k@rtutyun -> iyo - Atesh Stepan
Erebuni Pioner Palati estradayin akumb.
yergel yev nvagel e " Araqyalner " xmbi het , yev halatsvel KJB kormits cenzurayits durs linelu hamar ,
http://www7.ewebcity...n/apostles.html
Janachvats er nor areshum vorpes Dzax HArout kam Hippy HArout 68-72 tvakanerin yerkar mazerov yev holyday shalvarnerov , qaraqi tarber akumbnerum yergelov, himnakanum yergel e Nor-areshi Hin kinoyi akumbum ,
terapoxvel e Beyrut 70 tvakaneri s@kzbum, ur hangrvan e gtel AYF sharkerum , yergel yev taratsel e N@ranst yerger@, 70 verchum yekel e USA / Los Angelos / ur i-skzbane yergel e Yerevan restoranum / monte-bello /
iyster eyin yergum nayev Paul bardatlyan@ / Asatur@ / restoran@ janachvats er ir mshtakan tur-u-d@mpotsneri / narkotikneri yev anverj razbiratneri hamar.

80akan tvakaneri s@kzbin Dzax Harout@ uner arten 10'its aveli HAykakan dziynagrutyunerov, uner arten ir mshtakan nvagaxumb@ ( "ANI #1" - Keybord- OB-8 Andranik Muradyan - Dhol / drums / - Varamah Vardan Muradyan - astavst hokin lusavori - Bass Guitar - Yergahan - Avo - Solo Guitar -Varujan ) (1991 its "Ani #2 Himnakanum - 3@ Arayin - Avo - Anush ) uner hovanavorner #1 AYF -Barsegyan & PECO records . JAmnaka ar jamanak parahandes- yegur u tes - hamergner himnakanum AYF hamar ,
minchev 82 tvakan@ artden 2rd angam er amusnanum , uner mek Tra,

? ardyok Harout PAmbukjyan@ uni ir uruyn ter@ Haykakan " estrada - Rabiz - jorovrtakan " yerajshtutyan mej PAtasxan@ >> IYO

? Ardyok Haorut Pambukjyan@ torl e ir azdetsutyun@ Haykakan yerajshtutyan vra patasxan --->>> IYO

? portsum en ardyok myus yerajishtner@ linel Haouti n@man - ->> iyo shat shater@,
sksvats Tata Simonyanits minchev GAruty sirvats yergishner@ hima LA bolor@ garutyi sirvats yergishner en .

? yergum e artyon urish lezunerov yev kam otar azgeri yerger -->> voch

yev i vercho
miyak yergishn e vor ashxarhi vor tsiyrum el hamerg ta dahlij@ li e misht , jorovurt@ sirum e yev spasum ,
inchpes spasum eyin mek shabat arach Hamergi jamanak lep letsun dahlijov ,
miyak yergichn e vor uni e 40 aveli dziynagrutyuner ,
Miyak yergichn e vor mnatsel e magur chi @enkel , otaramolutyan yev arevmtyan yelevejneri yev yergeri katarelov,
yev da e patjar@ vor verchin 5-7 tareinerin nor dziynagrutyuner shat chuni .
Sa ir xoskern en " aveli lav e bemits ijnem kan yergem tarkmanvats yerger, aveli lav e 4 tarin mek 70-akan tvakaneri gortsikavorumov dziynagrvem kan arevmtyan yelevejnerov ltsnem yerger@ "

miyak yergichnerits mekn e vor tsankatsats jamanak patrast e ir masnaktsutyun@ berelu tsankatsats Hayan@past hamergi - dramahavagi - dzrioren )


i vercho HArout@ mnum e Harout Odum jrum yev tsamakum , nuyn 70 tvakanieri Araqyal@ nuyn moruk@ nuyn b@rbej mazer@ uni ir probpemner@ / bajanvats e knojits , yev erevan restorani sovorutyun@ , xoranal petq che.

yev vstah em var @ aravot yerb mi nor CD durs ga Haorut Pambukjyani kormit s mezanits shater@ chnayats vor chenk sirum iren arnelu enk vortev Harout Pambukjyan e

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Posted 10 October 2000 - 05:34 PM

Garo, I donít have any questions about the personality of H.P., to a degree that he keeps it private. His personal life is off limits for me. Whether he has personal problems or not, I donít care, because I think it is not the issue here, as long as he is not communicating them to me through his music, or other means.

It is hard for me to give a formal criterion for rating a singer, since I am not a professor of musicology, or an experienced jury of music contests.

I think music is an emotional expression of human character, mentality, psychology, inner culture, etc. Music is also media of communication. Now, what kind of emotions and character is he bringing up, and what is the message of his communication? I donít get any good, tasteful manifestation of noble, cultivated human character, emotions, etc out of his music. As I have said before, I find his music to be one of low expectations, and unpolished and unsophisticated personality. But I do believe that the music is supposed to be the most sophisticated media of communication.

I didnít quite follow your last statement. If you are saying that Visotskiís songs are primitive, I can only add that they disgust me not any less. And I really donít care about the lyrics. As you understand, I donít know Italian, and when Pavarotti sings, I donít understand the words, but it changes nothing. Most of the time, when Gohar Gasparian sing Anushí area, unless I read the libretto, I wouldnít even understand her words. The words donít come clearly in music, frequently.

Dear Movses, with all due respect, I cannot consider someone with musical education of ďpioner palatĒ to have the right to be called musician. You can say that Sayat-Nova was not educated much either, but I think there is a mountains of distance between the two of them Ė I am sure you would not argue with this. When I listen to Sayat Nova, I feel nobility and purity coming out of his music. When I listen to H.P., I smell corruption, and I sense shallow culture. By the way, never have bought his CDs, and donít believe will ever do it

P.S. I have no opinion regarding moving this subject to the Music section.

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Posted 11 October 2000 - 08:19 AM

Pambukjyan

I have a couple of his songs. "Ampec korav lusnkan" is ok. And some qochary-s. But I think the song are good themselves and Harout has nothing to do with it. Never listened to his original songs, though I've heard there are some.

At present he is not popular in Armenia. Especially among the youth. Well, they know his name but nothing more. He is history.

The guy to blame for the turik-arabic-qef-khorovats-BMW-etc influence is Aram Asatryan. If I compare Harout with him, Harout sounds totally Armenian.

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Posted 11 October 2000 - 09:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Berj:

But I think the song are good themselves and Harout has nothing to do with it.


Yes. That's the main reason I think he had/has some importance in the US. Without him, alot of us wouldn't have heard and learned those songs.


quote:
Originally posted by Berj:


At present he is not popular in Armenia. Especially among the youth. Well, they know his name but nothing more. He is history.



That doesn't surprize me. Following my point from above, why would he have much value in Armenia?

What are the current popular groups/singers in Armenia that sound Armenian (whatever that is! ). On TV in Glendale, all I get exposed to is one cookie-cutter piece of crap singer after another. I swear they all use the same producer who has one synthesizer and drum machine. Are any of the current groups there using actual instruments? I think one of the best things about Nune's second album was the use of real instruments.

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Posted 11 October 2000 - 09:52 AM

Barev
Mj Barekam :) Sayat-Nova Ashurr er yerqahan / kompozitor :) ham el TAguhu sirats@ .
es mer PArchak HArut@ Yerkicha kataror.
chem kartsum Sayat-novayin kareli e Vorakazrkel yev HAmematel mer tsankatsats Rabiz yergichi het .


Berj jan vorjuyn esur es vor? inch ka chka ? shsheri gorts@ vontsa ? statsvuma ?

Minchev aram asatryan@ enter K@ku U Totik kar :) enter Mino u afon kar, enter Surik u boka kar enkan kayin ha Tatul@ moratsa :) Konstatin Orbelyani pes mardun berel Voske Ashnan@ kangnatsrel en bemi vra vor dashnamur n@vagi, isk Tatulin BMW stadyon@ 3 krug man en talsi :) yev jorourtn el siruma tsapa talis irar en antsel Tatul en goruum ehh Jorovurt jorovurt.
Asatryaneri Dinastyan vor amis@ 2 hat taza yerga mogonum hanum mi kich tarbera myusnerits
nor yerger & gortsikavorumn el vat chi shnorhiv Levoni & HAykoyi


darer araj Yerkichner@ derasaner@ jorovrtin yev uraxatsnelu hamar eyin , Sharjvum eyin Jorvrty Kariknerin hamadziyn ,
hima jamanakner@ poxvela
jorovurtn@ es artistnerin urax pahelu yev harstatsnelu . yev mi moratsek es mer artistner@ shat mets azdetsutyun unen jorvrty vra, n@ranst sharj u dzev@ n@ranst hakats shorer@ u qshats mekenaner@.

Mj mi kopit hamematutyun anenk .
mek shabat arach LA 3 hamergner kayin
#1 Harout pambukjyan
#2 LA norasterts Jor-Gortsikneri ansambli #1 hamerg@
#3 Maxsim + Paul + Goyrun kasanjyani

HArouty hamerg@ tsiyrits tsiyr dahlij@ ltsvel er.

:( norasterts Jor-gortsikneri ansambli dahlij@ miyayn yev miyayn 40% dra kesn el hraviratoms er .

maxsim paul goyrun el de Yerel en eli 60-70%.

jisht haskatsek chem asum Harout@ lava uraki mer Jahelner@ Haykakan Jor Gortsikneri yev mer HAykakan Azgayin yerg u yerashtutyan@ iynkan el kapnvats chen , mite yete Maman Papan dzerkits brnen tanen Hamerg . Jor-gortsikneri Dahliji himnakan handisatesner@ mer Tatik papiknern eyin .inchpisin er Gurgen Dabaryani mi knao HAmergner@ lep letsun dahlijner 10% yeritasardner 90% Tatik papikner.
de hima duk asek indz te vorkanov enk mek Yeritasardners heratsel mer Azgayin mshakuytits.
2 Americatsy @enkerner unem vor Oclandits qshel eyin 6-7 jam LA yekel vor HAmergin nerka lineyin , Iskakan Haykakan Yerashtutyun lseyin, Haykakan Duduk Zurna Qyamancha lselu hamar, isk hents nuyn Glandalum apror mer HAyer@ vor 5 rope heru eyin aprum dahlijits ur eyin ?

ehh amen inch popoxakan e yev amen inch ir jamanakn@ yev terr@ uni yerevi ,HArutner@ yev aramner@ srank jamanakavor yerevuytner en ,
hazaravor rabiz yergichner kan , sakayn srantsits kanisn en mnalu Hay azgi srty mej tariner ants ? shat q@cher@,
Yev huysov em jamank k@ga vor menq HAyers mi kich aveli l@rjoren h@partoren k@ndunenk yev k@zbarvenk Mer HAykakan HArazat mshakuytov.

Tamam Ashxar P@tit yeka
chitori ha-bash nazani
el chutesa qo debari pes
dun dipunen vash nazani
endu hamar qiz tesnor@
asum e te vay vash nazani

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Posted 11 October 2000 - 10:19 AM

Dear MosJan,

But we have many good Sayat-Nova performers, right? For example, Flora Martirosyan, who I remember had been residing in LA some 7 years ago. Don't know where she might be now. We should've asked her, Hovhannes Badalyan, Rouben Matevosian, what they have thought of Haruts, and him alike. I know at least what Flora used to think - and she refused to compromise, perhaps at the expense of her personal financial success.

As far as your example, and the demand of our colony is concerned, that's what troubles me. I think it is some kind of vicious circle - this is what the people demand, but on the other hand, this is the education they get - what else they would demand, if it is being offered to them with such intensity, as to shape their taste and preferences.

It seems to me that the two of us have no more arguments

But I am less tolerant to that expression of "art." By in large, people go for what is easy and, unfortunately, Harout is indeed easy.

Don't know any of the other names mentioned in your and Berj's messages.

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Posted 11 October 2000 - 10:37 AM

Who was it that asked, I forget....but here's the answer:

My criteria for rating singers: a voice!!, formal music training, (depending on the genre) repertoire, range, stage presence, creativity and ability to change with the times, manners!!, to name a few

I believe that aside from decent musical ability an artist must also have personality, a certain charm that sets him/her apart from the rest of the field ...(this is difficult to explain)

I realize, however, that given the general lack of standards in pop music, not every artist is going to be able to fulfill these criteria...but, as we say in armenian, "xixjnel lav bana"...there is no reason why the general public has to be subjected to "musicians" like harut and countless other rabiz flakes...

ehhh, i'm getting annoyed again just thinking about this...

lol
gayan

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Posted 11 October 2000 - 01:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gayane:

...but, as we say in armenian, "xixjnel lav bana"...there is no reason why the general public has to be subjected to "musicians" like harut and countless other rabiz flakes...


But they obviously vote "yes" with their dollars. There has been and always will be fans of shallow pop music in any country and era. So Harout's the musical equivalent of junk food. Who doesn't like Doritos every now and then?

People eat too much junk food (both metaphorically and literally!) We just need to make sure everyone gets their fruits and veggies, too.

Is music an artform or a business? Both.

Now please pass the barbeque sauce, my Celine Dion is lacking in flavor.

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Posted 12 October 2000 - 11:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Pilafhead:

What are the current popular groups/singers in Armenia that sound Armenian (whatever that is!


Well Nune is already very popular. Jivan is classic. Violin melodies of Karo Karapetyan are as popular as they were in 70s and 80s, so I think that's smth to become classic too. Actually, Karo is an example of good melody arrangement. He was the first to perform folk songs with violin-guitar-dhol trio. Smooth sound, nothing vulgar. I like him.

Shushan, Lilit, Sona-popular among educated youth.

Tata, Levon Abrahamyan-smth to listen to after having barbeque.

Aram Asatryan, Tatoul-they rule the suberbs of Yerevan. Mix of all Middle Eastern, Minor Asian and Causacian sounds. Thrash

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Posted 12 October 2000 - 11:26 AM

Thanks Berj!!

I will print out your post and try to track some of those down. Fortunately, there are 3 or 4 Armenian music shops in Glendale.

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Posted 12 October 2000 - 08:45 AM

3 or 4 music shops in glendale???!!!!! Where have you been?...lol...there are many more...you say fortunately, i say unfortunately..lol..

Gayane

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Posted 12 October 2000 - 02:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gayane:


3 or 4 music shops in glendale???!!!!! Where have you been?...lol...there are many more...you say fortunately, i say unfortunately..lol..

Gayane



Really? I meant 3 or 4 Armenian ones (Gtak, Pe-ko and someother one on Glendale), but you're right I can think of a few more I forgot Ahktamar (s*cks) & Garni. I can't remember if Parseghian relocated from Hollywood or not.

Why don't you like them? Is it the junk they peddle? I always get a cold/rude reaction when I go into any of those places. Like they're doing me a favor. Jeez, I'm a customer for christsakes. Maybe I should put on a silk shirt, a gold chain and enter with a cigarette-smoke laden, "Inch bes, gor?"

I still have yet to go into Gtak. They might throw rocks at me and call me names.


[This message has been edited by Pilafhead (edited October 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Pilafhead (edited October 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Pilafhead (edited October 12, 2000).]

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Posted 05 November 2000 - 11:29 PM

I dont think nowbody has a right to make harsh judgments about anybody without knowing %100. Nobody has the right to dirty someones rep.What people do to there bodies is there problem but the fact of the matter is that he is a pioneer in the music industry.Sorry for being a bit harsh but a am in the music industry also and revolt comments like that specially when there is no proof.

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Posted 06 November 2000 - 08:05 PM

All I can say to your analysis of Armenian merchants Pilafhead, is an resounding AMEN! I am glad I am not the only one to find most Armenian merchants to be incredibly rude, especially if they find out you are Armenian. I used to have a complex that maybe it was because I am half, but now I am not so sure. In fact I think they are nicer to odars! Example is Massis Kabob at the Montebello Mall. The guy, a Barskahay, is always a bit aloof toward me. The other day I went with some fellow teachers to eat there, they themselves noticed this, yet the owner was very chummy chummy with every Mexican customer, sweet talking them! Why are we like this?

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Posted 07 November 2000 - 12:21 PM

FarsiJan,

What a shame those people were rude!

I am an armenian , but you can say I'm ever like that to you? Can you?

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Posted 07 November 2000 - 05:48 PM

Kazza, you are a sweetheart! If only all Armenians were like you!

Everyone else, leave poor Harout alone already! Like it or not we all will listen to him! Admit it! In Barskahayeren: Basaw dige, inch kan vat baner'enk asum badbakh martin masin!

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Posted 08 November 2000 - 12:44 PM

smilies/biggrin.gif

#39 Guest__*

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Posted 09 November 2000 - 08:26 PM

i've been reading this interesting thread from the beginning, and all it has done is left me shaking my head in disbelief with regards to some of the comments made.

1st of all, to say that harout is a joke means that the guy hasn't done any contributions to armenian pop music. and that is simply not true. if any of you have heard his early material (late 70's - mid 80's), from a POP MUSIC standpoint, it's pretty good. i think his vol. 1 & 2 is especially interesting. i do agree that his later material is forgettable, but i think it's absolutely unfair to call him a joke, especially when some of you guys admitted that a lot of musicians copied his style.

2nd, how in the world can MJ say that harout's music style has encouraged the actions of the so-called "rabizagans" in glendale?? come on, man! that's as ignorant a statement as all those conservatives made about judas priest in the 80's causing youngsters to commit suicide. the fact is that those kids live the way they do because of the way their FAMILIES brought them up, not the music they listen to. if you're gonna blame the tragedies and violence that occur in glendale and hollywood on somebody, blame the families, not music! harout's songs in no way have anything to do with violence, - they encourage happiness and joy.

lastly, regarding harout's musical credibility, let me ask all you guys a simple question, "what do you expect?" i think we all need to realize that harout, along with other popular armenian musicians in that genre, don't make musical credibility a priority when they put out their albums. some of you guys even admitted it when you labeled this pop music consisting of nothing more than drum machines and synthesizers. the fact is that pop music, whether it's armenian, american, or british, has never made musical credibility its priority, - it's always been about the lyrics and how it makes the listener feel.

and that, my friends, is what harout has always been about, - HOW HE MAKES YOU FEEL. the guy's talent is not in his music, it's in his charisma and his ability to make people enjoy themselves. not surprisingly, his most common gigs, to this day, are weddings and engagements. why? see 2nd sentence of this paragraph.

sincerely,

------------------
Raffi

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Posted 10 November 2000 - 09:36 AM

Charisma???!!!!!!!
Charisma??!!??!!??
You think that provincial flake has charisma??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH-MY-GOD!

lol...your comment prompted an unsurpassed show of emotion from me on this forum, and I'm pretty emotional!

wow...that's all I have to say on that one.




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