102 replies to this topic

[Maral]

Maral, the "selfish" entity in that line of thought is not you per se.  It's your selfish genes, using you to propagate itself.  It's there, in our machinery; we wouldn't be here if it weren't.  Given the humans' level of self-awarenes, we can, of course, make sense of things in a better and more profound way.

Fascinating!
So it's our genes who want to reprouduce,ok that could be it.

[Maral]

For the life of me I can't think of a legitimate enough reason to have kids...but I love every exhausting minute of it!

But how can you resist them????
Just look at her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[Anileve]

there is no way that anyone would say that having kids is sellfish after they've had one or two
and who the heck cares about my genes when I'm gone..when I'm gone I'm gone...period end of story.

We are going into an argument of egoism. Having kids is a selfish concept: You want a dog, you like dogs, it makes you feel special and embodies you with feelings you haven't experienced before. To keep the feeling alive you reward it with care and sacrifice. It's still selfish.

Maral this is not the case with you, but many people feel as if they should have kids because it is the right thing to do and to escape the crucifixion of the society because you don't live up to your human potential. Taking a chance of not having kids means a lot of judgments from everyone around you as well as annoying inquiries into your supposedly "abnormal" relationship or marriage. I feel as if at this moment no one really needs to have kids, if you want them because of your personal interests fine, if you don't that's fine to.

[Twilight Bark]

It's so much easier being a man and wanting kids...

You are generalizing missy.

Some of us fully participate in it, diapers and all.

[Maral]

I never meant to imply that if one doesn't want to have kids it wasn't fine.
It is what it is...I just can't comprehend it I said.

I still say not having kids is a sellfish concept.
And to each his own.

I guess one can't understand having a child with someone you love if the union of marriage seems 'abnormal' anyways.
Time will tell.

[Twilight Bark]

We are going into an argument of egoism. Having kids is a selfish concept: You want a dog, you like dogs, it makes you feel special and embodies you with feelings you haven't experienced before. To keep the feeling alive you reward it with care and sacrifice. It's still selfish.

Maral this is not the case with you, but many people feel as if they should have kids because it is the right thing to do and to escape the crucifixion of the society because you don't live up to your human potential. Taking a chance of not having kids means a lot of judgments from everyone around you as well as annoying inquiries into your supposedly "abnormal" relationship or marriage. I feel as if at this moment no one really needs to have kids, if you want them because of your personal interests fine, if you don't that's fine to.

Hopefully the Me I see in the replies here will become smaller, and better balanced with the rest of existence as people mature.

Edited by Twilight Bark, 15 October 2004 - 03:48 PM.

[Maral]

Hopefully the Me I see in the replies here will become smaller, and better balanced with the rest of existence as people mature.

time will tell

[DominO]

I love kids... I'm too tired to say why.

[Maral]

I love kids... I'm too tired to say why.

ohh because we're all kids at heart Domino jan.

[Maral]

And equating having kids to getting a dog...absolutely absurd!

[Maral]

And equating  having kids to getting a dog...absolutely absurd!

I have both...they are not equal on any level.

[Anileve]

I guess one can't understand having a child with someone you love if  the union of marriage seems 'abnormal' anyways.

You misunderstood me Maral jan. I said that not having a child with someone as a result of your love union is considered "abnormal" by the mainstream morality. I am all for a personal choice of a preferred lifestyle without measuring it up to my ruler of morals. But I argued this concept of selfishness, where I said there are various degrees of something, (that reminds me that I have to reply to Sasun), perhaps not wanting to have kids is slightly more selfish.

For example, my father said that he will not have any kids because he doesn't think he did a good job as it is. And I find that to be a lesser degree of selfishness, because I know he's right, because the result would not be positive.

[nairi]

Ooh, diapers. Yes, the big challenge

Maral!!!!!! She's so cute!!!! My niece is about that age to and all I want to do when I see her is eat her up! But God forbid she live in my house!!!!

[DominO]

ohh because we're all kids at heart Domino jan.

No we are not. Kids are so innocent, they're the true philosophers but without needing to be wise... asking questions about everything, everything fascinate them, everything is magical without being insane. They have everything to learn. They are still not dogmatically formed by society to be conformists etc...

[Maral]

Ooh, diapers. Yes, the big challenge

Maral!!!!!! She's so cute!!!! My niece is about that age to and all I want to do when I see her is eat her up! But God forbid she live in my house!!!!

That pic is ok Nairi,but there is another on my fridge I have to scan and share...this is wrong to say,but she looks so sexy!
I feel the same way about others children,can't wait till they take them home!

Edited by Maral, 15 October 2004 - 04:06 PM.

[Anileve]

Maybe there's also a difference between men and women. After all, it's the women who have to go through most of the (physical) trouble. Not all of us are looking forward to this. Not to mention the sleepless nights afterwards... It's so much easier being a man and wanting kids...

I know it may seem like I am jumping on my feminism wagon, but it really is much easier being a man and wanting kids. I remember telling some Hyastantsi guy I was seeing that I may consider having one and adopting one. He looked as if I just told him I am a lesbian. He said, "you know it's a really nice thing to say, and you must be a really good person to say it, but I don't think you want to adopt a child. There is nothing like your own, please think about it." I turned around and told him not to worry because I am not planning to marry him. It's so easy for him to just point his finger and say I want, but who delivers in the end? I always wonder what if men got pregnant how would things change? I think 2 things, either the birth rate would plummet severely or shoot through the roof. After all it's a lot of pain after some pleasure and sometime the latter is not sufficient enough to substitute the magnitude of the former.

[Maral]

No we are not. Kids are so innocent, they're the true philosophers but without needing to be wise... asking questions about everything, everything fascinate them, everything is magical without being insane. They have everything to learn. They are still not dogmatically formed by society to be conformists etc...

well okkkkkk then,I stand corrected!

[DominO]

I know it may seem like I am jumping on my feminism wagon, but it really is much easier being a man and wanting kids. I remember telling some Hyastantsi guy I was seeing that I may consider having one and adopting one. He looked as if I just told him I am a lesbian. He said, "you know it's a really nice thing to say, and you must be a really good person to say it, but I don't think you want to adopt a child. There is nothing like your own, please think about it." I turned around and told him not to worry because I am not planning to marry him. It's so easy for him to just point his finger and say I want, but who delivers in the end? I always wonder what if men got pregnant how would things change? I think 2 things, either the birth rate would plummet severely or shoot through the roof.  After all it's a lot of pain after some pleasure and sometime the latter is not sufficient enough to substitute the magnitude of the former.

There is no much differences between adopting it or having one. What is important is that the kid is healthy and as well what you put in the hardware... what you and society transmit to that kid.

[Armen]

When spirituality is forcefully removed from the society human beings get tired of everything. They get tired of traditional sex, traditional food, they want more and more facinating things. A new musical group is labled an old one just a month from its debute. The whole process of human development is being artificially accelerated. People move from one idea to the other and from one point of view to the next one simply being tired of the former. The ultimate necessity of an alternative in everything and everywhere has become the only path of rescuing onself form a mental deadlock.

[Anileve]

as well what you put in the hardware.

Care to explain what you mean by that?