70 replies to this topic

[DominO]

Elbayr, which haplotypes are suspected being originated from the Armenians and has the highest frequency among the Armenians, we ain't talking about chromozone X and Y here, go ahead show us you know of what you are talking about.

Edited by Fadix, 15 December 2003 - 05:58 PM.

[DominO]

I'm waiting and waiting...

[Elbayr]

Sirumem I'm not even gonna bother answering that, I well know who the TURK is out of the both of us.

So!? So WESTERN ARMENIANS, are perecuted politically and socially for being a purer form of Dinaroid, and not socially similar with eastern Armenians. This leads to a)hatred for eastern armenians/eastern looking people b)supremacism c)racial outbursts

There are still western Armenians being persecuted in Turkey, living in towns afraid to claim Armenian identity and naming there Noric children TURKISH/MONGOL names! All in all while the Eastern Armenia, a communist state, sits by and tries to point fingers at us for "starting wars" and shaking hands with the Turk. Am I still not clear?

[Armen]

I am not white (not nordid in bone structure) but europid, as the Armenoids once were. I am depigmented, (blonde, and blue eyes) however im Dinarid/Celtic, my father is a Celtic Armenian, now GALATIA in Turkey, an Armenian state, divided by the Romans. Armenians were never white, and did have white minorities, such as the celts, however the Armenians were once purely Dinaroid and Armenoid, which know, due to Turkish racial persecution, are merely half Turks. Most of the genes in Galatia, Western Armenia, stayed untampered becase a)most of whome were raped were killed in the genocide, b)mountainous regions were hard to fight in Turkey, and many of the Tribes remain in Turkey and the Balkans, and c) they did not mix with turks, and many fled to other nations.

Bolsahyes just means an Armenian from Turkey, it does indicate Race or Culture. The Armenians are a diverse group of people, and I beleive that the Western Armenians deserve more respect, primarily those of Noric ancestry

Did you know that 80% of Armena's present population have ancestors from Western Armenia.

[DominO]

Will you finally answer?

[Elbayr]

Domino the haplotype (y chromosone) is a recessive allele in men, which originates in TURKS the m100+ is indication of Asian ancestry. Geneologists say that Turks were in fact the fathers of the Mongols, and they father of the Chinese, not the other way around. Its a turkic haplotype. m173 and m172 are most common in the Armenians of Armenia, then in Turkmenistan

[DominO]

Domino the haplotype (y chromosone) is a recessive allele in men, which originates in TURKS the m100+ is indication of Asian ancestry. Geneologists say that Turks were in fact the fathers of the Mongols, and they father of the Chinese, not the other way around. Its a turkic haplotype. m173 and m172 are most common in the Armenians of Armenia, then in Turkmenistan

Are you escaping the topic Elbayr? There is many and many halotypes you can find more commonly among Armenians, this was not my question, I believe my question was simple, I am asking you which haloptype is found the highest among the Armenians than any other ethnic group.

[Elbayr]

ArmenSarq are you saying? Western Armenians are dispersed amongst the Eastern Meditarannean and Balkans, not the Caucus. A large majority were killed in something called the Genocide, and the rest assimilated into Turks (giving Turks a large European entity, along with Serbs and Greeks. There is less than 8% western armenian origins in Armenia. Otherwise theyd have Turkish last names and western pronounciations, and "ian" indicating western, and sometimes iranian. I have known western Armenians from Lebanon who moved back to Armenia when it gained independance. And just as fast moved back to Lebanon...post war...

[Elbayr]

Amongst which Armenians? Most tests are done in Armenia , hg2 (non recessive) that means its not dominant, then turks, romanians, bulgarians (other turkisized slavs).

[Armen]

ArmenSarq wtf are you saying? Western Armenians are dispersed amongst the Eastern Meditarannean and Balkans, not the Caucus. A large majority were killed in something called the Genocide, and the rest assimilated into Turks (giving Turks a large European entity, along with Serbs and Greeks. There is less than 8% western armenian origins in Armenia. Otherwise theyd have Turkish last names and western pronounciations, and "ian" indicating western, and sometimes iranian. I have known western Armenians from Lebanon who moved back to Armenia when it gained independance. And just as fast moved back to Lebanon...post war...

Wrong, the entire population of Armenia's Shirak is from Mush, Sasun, Erzeroum and Kars. Major part of Gyumr's population is Mshetsi. The major part of Armenia's Gegharqunik marz are from Bayazed. There are numerous villages in Ararat valley with people from Van.

[Elbayr]

Vanecis (dikranagercis) and ararat region armenians, speak an eastern dialect of Armenian. Traditionaly, it was yes regionaly Western Armenia, but not Giligia or Galacia. The Vanecis sufferend the most trecherous persecutions (severe rapings, killings, burning of land) because VAN was a closed off region far from British grasp. They are not traditionall "western", as goes for the Ararat Armenians (all of the traditional Dikranagerci regions)

[DominO]

Amongst which Armenians? Most tests are done in Armenia , hg2 (non recessive) that means its not dominant, then turks, romanians, bulgarians (other turkisized slavs).

Elbayr, which Armenian or not is not at all important, if you did a research about HLA markers, alleles and haplotype, you won't have any difficulties answering to this question at all, we are not talking about chromozone Y, we are talking about the usual Class II alleles and such, if you had any Genetic book and really had done any researchs, you would know of what I am talking about.

[Elbayr]

Either way there's no doubt In my mind that the Eastern and Western Armenians cant be pointed out. There is also a presence of Eastern Armenians (darker pigmented Armenians) in Lebanon and Iraq. Some of whome fled from Armenia and Iran, and some of whome came from Eastern Armenia (post WWII).

[Armen]

Vanecis (dikranagercis) and ararat region armenians, speak an eastern dialect of Armenian. Traditionaly, it was yes regionaly Western Armenia, but not Giligia or Galacia. The Vanecis sufferend the most trecherous persecutions (severe rapings, killings, burning of land) because VAN was a closed off region far from British grasp. They are not traditionall "western", as goes for the Ararat Armenians (all of the traditional Dikranagerci regions)

OK, than name me the exact traditional Western Armenians.

[Elbayr]

fedix your talking about paleolithic times. that same allele* is found in all eastern/southern people. what else can I say? I still dont understand what your trying to ask me

Edited by Elbayr, 15 December 2003 - 06:19 PM.

[DominO]

fedix your talking about paleolithic times.  that same y chromosome is found in all eastern/southern people.  what else can I say? I still dont understand what your trying to ask me

Elbayr I am NOT talking about paleolithic times, what you refered are markers from the Y chromozone used to find the distance between ethnic groups based on the "male" chromozone. What I am asking you is specific haplotypes combinations, Human leukocyte antigens, haplotype markers that are known to be the most frequent among the Armenians compared with others, there isen't billions, there is just one combination that by % varies to most compared to the rest of the other ethnic groups.

Edited by Fadix, 15 December 2003 - 06:26 PM.

[Elbayr]

The Traditional Western Armenian States (now in Turkey/Syria) is as follows, as well as Armenian minorities(racial minorities),

Cilicia/Giligia, who are seperated from western and eastern by Musa Dagh: Kessablanca (kessab), Aleppo, Mut, Anamur, Antyochia, Kilis, Antalya ancient hittite coastal regions

Artaxata, and Kharpert, Moosh (north of tigranagert)

Artvin and Pontus (lazestan)

Caesarian (gazar) and Malatian, Sivas, Gatal Huyuk

, Mersin, Haran

Amasya, Samsum, Karabuk, Giresin, Zonguldak (Bythanos Asia)

Galatia, and the Celtic Galatians (seperate from armenians, yet religiously armenian)

as for minorities

The Galac (galatia), from the celtic islands, brunne/faelid, 75% reside in Yugoslavia
The Hamsheci (Hameli) of Noric Meditarannean ancestry, in the Laz/pontic regions of Turkey, most of whome speak Hamsheci (an Armenian disguised as Turkish), written and spoken like turkish, most of whome are orthodox, some muslim, to evade Turkish attrocities.
The Laz, also Armenian entity, essentially Hamshecis
The Gughoy: ostrogothic settlements in central Armenia dating post-hunnic invasions, near regions of Sivas, east of Galacia


The list goes on

[Elbayr]

um is it ht14? i dont know , educate me...

[Elbayr]

I also forgot the Dynars (no not Dinarics), ethnically ARMENOID, in western turkey
The Mevedli (north west Turkey) ethnically meditarannean, linguistically un-classified, previously KIRAKOI SAI POLIS, in Byzantine (last written documentation of them)

Sarekamis and Kars (both western),

Van was more the meeting place of all Armenian Types, those who extended to Persia for trade and work, and those who absorbed caucasian/turkic tribes in the north such as Bulgars, Albans, Irjeks, Turcmens, Huns and Dengiz Lazes (deniz = uggro-finnic like Bulgars and Finns) settling in north eastern lazestan, today georgia

[DominO]

And that would answer to my simple question? Face it Elbayr, your knowledge of Armenian DNA is near to non-existant. You wanted a challenge, I just asked you a question to see if you could have an intellectual debate which you asked to have.

You will find your answer in genetic classifications and HLA markers works, this same answer prove the hypotheses of Armenians originating from Basques(this is your clue) is very unlikely. Now that you have this clue, search your informations and when you would be enought educated about Armenian DNA, perhaps then you could come here and try to educate the members of this board.

I think I have wasted too much time with you.