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Azeris In Their Natural Behavior > Destroying In Nakhitchevan


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#1 Dave

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 04:55 PM

http://www.armenianh...-massacres.html

Cultural Genocide in Nakhitchevan (Azerbaijan) continues on. The government has ordered the destruction of a Khachkar cemetary a few years ago, something that has been ignored by the international community.



Edited by MosJan, 25 March 2007 - 09:04 AM.

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#2 Hellektor

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 06:16 PM

QUOTE (Dave @ Jul 5 2005, 04:55 PM)
http://www.armenianh...-massacres.html

Cultural Genocide in Nakhitchevan (Azerbaijan) continues on. The government has ordered the destruction of a Khachkar cemetary a few years ago, something that has been ignored by the international community.

When it comes to protesting against this sort of barbarity, Armenians are so lenient and slow.
Look how the "Azeris" have used the Khojaly incident, perpetrated by themselves, to bring the Armenians down to their level, whining and sniveling and whimpering and wailing to the top of their voices.
I wonder why we don't complain when they commit such atrocities.
It's human heritage that belongs to everybody and not Armenians only.
Can you show another nation who destroys the centuries old monuments of another nation in like manner in this day and age?

http://www.armeniadi...ugha/index.html

#3 ED

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 12:00 PM

Azerbaijani Soldiers Destroy Armenian Kchachqars in Nakhichevan mad.gif

December 15, /PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Armenian Embassy in Iran received an information from the Armenian eparchy of Atrpatakan that about 100 Azerbaijani soldiers burst into Old Julfa cemetery, which is on the bank of the Araks river, and began destroying and smashing into dust Khachqars (cross-stones) with hammers, spades and heavy equipment. These are Khachqars, which were saved in 2002 from being vandalised by the Azerbaijanis, Armenian Embassy in the IRI reports. This incident is another step taken by Azerbaijan in order to distort the history, which aims at erasing the Armenian trace in Nakhichevan. In this connection the leaders of three Armenian eparchies of Iran, on behalf of the Armenian nation expressed their indignation and resentment. They appealed to the international community, international organisations, particularly, the UNESCO, for the latter to take steps, according to its mandate and capacity, in order to prevent another cultural genocide by Azerbaijan. Besides, the Armenian Embassy in Iran via its diplomatic channels informed the Foreign Ministry of Armenia of the fact and will keep an eye on the subsequent developments.

#4 Arpa

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 12:24 PM

Edward, tsav@d tanem.
I understand your pain.
Do you know that the way things are going some day, probably not too long from now, when America becomes an Islamic state, look how many goddam "mohammeds" are in your local phone book, the same will happen to all of our churches and kahchkars here?
When will we ever learn to manufacture "qar-berds" (stone forts) instead of stone crosses, khachkars??
They are "reducing our kahchakars to dust"/ How about we manufacture devices to "reduce THEM to dust"?

Edited by Arpa, 15 December 2005 - 12:27 PM.


#5 ED

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Dec 15 2005, 10:24 AM)
Edward, tsav@d tanem.
I understand your pain.
Do you know that the way things are going some day, probably not too long from now, when America becomes an Islamic state, look how many goddam "mohammeds" are in your local phone book, the same will happen to all of our churches and kahchkars here?
When will we ever learn to manufacture "qar-berds" (stone forts) instead of stone crosses, khachkars??
They are "reducing our kahchakars to dust"/ How about we manufacture devices to "reduce THEM to dust"?



Arpa jan, this is niot just Khachqars, this reflects somewhat out national identity, calture and history, it would be hard to imagin Armenia without them, I dont think Kachqars only have a religious value but also reflects master hand work of our Varpets, and yes insted of helping iranians our sciantists should start thinking about nuclear bomb

ay estex jisht e asvats "qarits hats qamogh azg"

#6 Takoush

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ Dec 15 2005, 01:00 PM)
Azerbaijani Soldiers Destroy Armenian Kchachqars in Nakhichevan mad.gif

December 15, /PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Armenian Embassy in Iran received an information from the Armenian eparchy of Atrpatakan that about 100 Azerbaijani soldiers burst into Old Julfa cemetery, which is on the bank of the Araks river, and began destroying and smashing into dust Khachqars (cross-stones) with hammers, spades and heavy equipment


This is terrible and soooo indecent, I am also as enraged as can be....mad.gif

I mean what are we supposed to do here... put heavy guards or huge walls around it?

I guess that's what we have to do. It's unbelievably indecent.

#7 Takoush

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ Dec 15 2005, 01:38 PM)
and yes instead of helping iranians our scientists should start thinking about nuclear bomb

Ed jan:

I would go along with your idea here to put these degenerates in their place.

#8 vava

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 02:44 PM

QUOTE (Anahid Takouhi @ Dec 15 2005, 02:36 PM)
Ed jan:

I would go along with your idea here to put these degenerates in their place.


The bomb. <sarcasm>Great - we'll be declared in the axis of evil along with Iran. Perfect solution for the betterment of Armenian. </sarcasm>

With respect to both of you, I disagree 100%.

#9 Arpa

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ Dec 15 2005, 06:38 PM)
Arpa jan, this is niot just Khachqars, this reflects somewhat out national identity, calture and history, it would be hard to imagin Armenia without them, I dont think Kachqars only have a religious value but also reflects master hand work of our Varpets, and yes insted of helping iranians our sciantists should start thinking about nuclear bomb

ay estex jisht e asvats "qarits hats qamogh azg"


Is there an international law that condones across the border intervention to save one’s national cultural heritage?
Of course Ed, I am sure you know that I said that word as symbol of our culture, even if at times we have placed too much emphasis on it.

This is not the first time we hear such stories;

http://www.raa.am/Ar...Hodv_E_03_7.htm

The biggest Khachkar in Noratus Cemetary in Jugha Nakhjavan;

http://www.armeniape...oratus_Cemetery


Khachkar mean Stone CROSS. Let us by all means preserve it yet not to forget the “cross” below.

http://www.shutterst...pic-338640.html

#10 DominO

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 06:00 PM

QUOTE (Hellektor @ Jul 6 2005, 07:16 PM)
When it comes to protesting against this sort of barbarity, Armenians are so lenient and slow.
Look how the "Azeris" have used the Khojaly incident, perpetrated by themselves, to bring the Armenians down to their level, whining and sniveling and whimpering and wailing to the top of their voices.
I wonder why we don't complain when they commit such atrocities.
It's human heritage that belongs to everybody and not Armenians only.
Can you show another nation who destroys the centuries old monuments of another nation in like manner in this day and age?

http://www.armeniadi...ugha/index.html


That a human tragedy happened in Khojali isen't a myth, that the Armenian soldiers there have to share a blame isen't a myth.

The myth is that 500, 600 or a thousand people died there. This is a myth. That Armenian soldiers scalped the courps to then open a corridor giving access to the press is a myth.

What is not a myth, is that I got recently from French newspapers articles reporting eyewithnesses that claim Russians and Armenians shouting on people, placing the Russians first, which is entirly different than the coverage of Goltz.

CODE
http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5840&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=140


I've discussed about Khojali a little with few Azeris there.

During vaccation I will post more non-Goltzian news coverage of the time.

BTW, Azeris did not perpetrate those killings themelves, people were indeed killed from Armenian and Russian guns, but it happened entirly differently than what Azeris authorities poop.

Here an article I've retrieved from an archival research of French newspapers I did when I had time. This one is dated Feb. 27, and was fresh, before Goltz spread his news. What it shows is that the story of Iranian intervention to stop the conflict is probably true and an accord by the Iranian Red Crescent of corps exchange very plausible.

Le Monde, jeudi 27 février 1992, p. C7

Washington s'inquiète de la violence au Nagorny-Artsax

AFP; Reuter

WASHINGTON - Le gouvernement américain s'est déclaré hier «profondément inquiet» de la recrudescence de la violence au Nagorny-Artsax et a demandé à toutes les parties d'appuyer les efforts de médiation de la Russie et du Kazakhstan. Toutefois, Arméniens et Azéris ont démenti qu'un cessez-le-feu ait été conclu au Haut-Artsax comme l'avait affirmé Radio-Téhéran dans son compte rendu de la médiation engagée par Ali Akbar Velayati.

L'existence d'une telle trêve a du reste été démentie dans les faits avec l'annonce, hier, de la capture de la ville azérie de Khojali par des combattants arméniens et le bombardement d'une autre ville azérie de l'enclave, Choucha, ainsi que de la capitale à dominante arménienne, Stepanakert.

Le ministre iranien des Affaires étrangères avait l'intention d'aller se rendre compte par lui-même de la situation au Haut-Artsax, peuplé en majorité d'Arméniens mais administré par l'Azerbaïdjan. Mais cette visite semblait compromise hier par la violence des bombardements. En vingt-quatre heures, 150 roquettes tirées par des Azéris se sont abattues sur une base militaire de la CEI à Stepanakert, tuant un soldat et renforçant les craintes de voir les forces de la CEI entraînées dans le conflit.

Radio-Téhéran avait annoncé mardi, en citant un «responsable proche des négociations», que, à l'issue de longues discussions avec des responsables azéris, Ali Akhbar Velayati avait obtenu la conclusion d'un cessez-le-feu de vingt-cinq heures au Haut-Artsax. Le ministre iranien doit rencontrer aujourd'hui des responsables armémiens.

Mais les deux parties ont démenti tout accord, notant que Ali Akbar Velayati - soucieux d'accroître l'influence de l'Iran dans la région - n'avait pas encore rencontré de représentants arméniens ni parcourus le Haut-Artsax. Sur le terrain, la situation ne porte pas davantage à l'optimisme. Une cinquantaine d'Azéris ont attaqué un poste frontalier contrôlé par des garde-frontières de la CEI et ils ont volé 14 mitraillettes et un lance-grenades, rapporte l'agence Itar-Tass. Les dirigeants arméniens ont affirmé que, au cours d'un précédent raid, des irréguliers azéris s'étaient emparés d'obus et d'explosifs d'une puissance totale de sept mégatonnes.

L'Azerbaïdjan assure qu'il a le droit de posséder de telles armes dans le cadre de sa campagne de «nationalisation» des anciennes installations militaires soviétiques. Face à la dégradation de la situation des forces de la CEI, leur commandement a autorisé lundi le 366e Régiment motorisé, bloqué à Stepanakert où il en est réduit à manger des chiens errants, l'autorisation de riposter s'il était attaqué.

Après la mort, dimanche, de deux soldats de ce régiment, un troisième militaire et plusieurs civils ont été tués mardi par des obus tirés par les Azéris, rapporte Tass en citant le commandement central. «Les affrontements se transforment en guerre ouverte où les forces de la CEI et plus précisément la 366e Division motorisée pourraient être entraînées», avertit la Pravda. La télévision russe a pour sa part déjà présenté le conflit du Artsax comme la première guerre de l'ère post-soviétique. Paris a annoncé son intention de présenter à la Communauté européenne un plan de cessez-le-feu en quatre points.

Edited by QueBeceR, 15 December 2005 - 06:04 PM.


#11 MosJan

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 07:25 PM

iy mard Anglerenits shat eyinq glux hanel hima le franseren

FAduli - English Please

#12 ED

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Dec 15 2005, 02:41 PM)
Is there an international law that condones across the border intervention to save one’s national cultural heritage?


No Arpa, there is no such a law but international laws are made acordind to times and actions a nation undertakes, you can say I dont give a damn what the world thinks, where was is the world when we were murdered, and I say the same thing, I'm no politician!

but I wouldent take such a daring act having in mind the state of out Nation, ROA in perticular, for such a republic needs resorces and strenght, Vava doesent agree with me on bomb issue, but do israelis give a damn by possesing nuclear bomb? NO, they spith on every UN resolution passed against them, UN is a joke a toy and a whore for the powerful Nations....lets count how much difarance UN made since 1947, none why should we care! this is exacly why I scream my lungs of for unity and collective voice, I think today is much much more important times in our history then there ever has been, while kusaktsutyuns and mtavoRakans are ingadged in profit taking, and fighting for ator! this will continue, next you know we read in the paper Yerabluor is being distroyed

#13 skhara

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 04:46 AM

There is no international law period. Just law of the jungle. The bomb would be a good thing, but requires materials not just know-how.

#14 Arpa

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 08:06 AM

QUOTE (skhara @ Dec 16 2005, 10:46 AM)
There is no international law period. Just law of the jungle. The bomb would be a good thing, but requires materials not just know-how.

In fact my question was rather in the negative expecting exactly such responses .
No t only there is no law against it, on the contrary it is expected, and there are precedents. Of course Turkey’s occupation of Northern Cyprus purportedly to protect their ethnic kin is nothing but a ruse. Even greater powers have done. Comes to mind the invasion of Grenada by the US supposedly to protect American students, Britain’s invasion of the Falkland islands and many more.
Not only we can and should take action to protect our heritage in places like Nakhjavan we should also take a closer look at what is happening across the border in Ani, lest all Armenian vestiges be totally erased and churches turned into cinemas or cattle stables.

#15 hytga

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 02:42 PM

http://azg.am/?lang=EN&num=2005121602

AZERI SOLDIERS DESTROY TOMBSTONES OF JUGHA CEMETERY

Armenian embassy in Iran was notified that around 100 Azeri soldiers invaded the cemetery of Old Jugha on the bank of River Arax and began destroying Armenian khachkars - saved from similar sacrilege in 2000 - with hammers, spades and military vehicles. The embassy views this as another attempt to falsify the history by wiping off the Armenian trace in the region of Nakhijevan.

Aram I Catholicos of Cilicia sent a letter to UNESCO president on occasion of this act of vandalism expressing his anger and concern.

Attached Files


Edited by hytga, 16 December 2005 - 02:43 PM.


#16 MosJan

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 03:14 PM

Azeri Forces Continue Destroying Armenian Khachkars in Nakhichevan

YEREVAN (Yerkir)--Dozens of Azeri soldiers, armed with sledge hammers, are destroying the Old Jugha cemetery khachkars (cross-stones) that are still standing following a similar act in 2002, according to the Armenian Embassy in Tehran.

After the destruction, the khachkars are loaded on trucks and then dumped into the Arax river. The vandalism is yet another example of the Azeri government's effort to destroy all traces of the Armenian people in Nakhichevan. This historically Armenian region was forcibly attached to Soviet Azerbaijan in 1921 and subsequently cleansed of its entire Armenian population.

A statement released by the embassy calls on Baku and Nakhichevan to immediately cease these actions. It also appeals to UNESCO and other international bodies to send a group of experts to the region to investigate the destruction and take appropriate measures. While Armenia has consistently welcomed monitoring groups, Azerbaijan has resisted.

According to the European Convention for The Protection of Architectural Heritage, all member countries inherit the responsibility to preserve cultural and historical monuments found on the territory of member states.

According to the same convention, if a country is found guilty of destroying cultural, historical monuments, they must be punished accordingly


asbarez

#17 MosJan

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 03:53 AM



The Khachkars of Jugha pictured in the photo perhaps don't exist any more. The Azerbaijani soldiers who entered the cemetery of Old Jugha broke with hummers, spades Armenia Khachkars. The RA Ministry of Foreign Affairs has made a proper declaration. The Azeris remind Talibs who exploded the statue of Buddha in Afghanistan some years ago as a non-Muslim statue.

THE CURRENT "HARMLESS" THEME

When a public dispute started on classic orthography, I asked to my director's opinion about the problem /I was working in the Institute of Arts at the Academy of Science/. The famous philologist Levon Hakhverdian "judgment" was rather strict. "It's another way to make our half-illiterate people a complete illiterate."
The literacy of our people hasn't been raised in last 15 years. In particularly the young people in the half part of '90s who are now 20-30 years old have problem to read in any orthography / in any language/. And if it is right that the National Assembly is the mirror of the public then the deputies who haven't learned all letters of the Armenian alphabet reflect nowadays situation. It isn't simply rational to teach adults and schoolchildren new grammatical system; they will forget what they knew and won't remember the new one /classic/. It's also obvious that a literate Armenian either in Armenia and Diaspora will read in any orthography and in that case there won't be any discrepancy between two parts of Armenians. The remain is the business of specialists.
Fortunately our authority doesn't oppose its strict solutions to the disputable Bolshevik solutions in '30s. And that problem seemed nobody rises beside Paruyr Hayrikian. And why does Hayrikian speak of it. Because he must speak of anything by all means. But he doesn't speak any more that Kocharian is "Party Committee" and Andranik Margarian is an "Agent of State Security Committee". Perhaps he is again in good relations with the authority and was announcing the Constitutional amendments. He also didn't speak how his approved Constitution had been passed.
What about grammar it's a "harmless" theme, there is no danger of it. Mr. Hayrikian threatened his life, health and freedom in communistic period in favor of independence of Armenia. But now he prefers safe themes. Perhaps he has tired.


Aram Abrahamian

#18 Marseliatsi_M26

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 06:17 PM

Aus: International Council of Monuments and Sites

http://www.internati...rbaijan2002.htm


Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

For a long time there have been complaints about the destruction of
Armenian monuments and sites in Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey, three
of the neighbouring countries of Armenia. A particularly sad example
is the destruction of the Armenian cemetery in the former town of
Djulfa, situated in the south of Nachitchevan, a region under the
sovereignty of Azerbaijan. This cemetery, which had been in use from
the early Middle Ages to the destruction of the town in 1605, was an
outstanding testimony of Armenian culture because of thousands of
tombstones mostly from the 15th and 16th centuries in the shape of
so-called Khatchkars. The destruction process, which began in 1998
when 800 Khatchkars were removed, was temporarily halted following
protests from UNESCO, but in November 2002 it was taken up again. When
ICOMOS was informed and given photos of this barbaric act in a remote
frontier area by RAA (Research on Armenian Architecture) in January
2003 and by ICOMOS Armenia in February 2003, the destruction, which
cannot have been carried through without the consent of the Azerbaijan
government, was already completed: "On January 10th Mr Haghnazarian
[author of the following report] was called by the very distressed
Armenian Bishop of Tabriz (Iran) who informed him that he went to the
Iranian side of the river Araxes opposite the cemetery of Djulfa some
days ago to see with his own eyes what had seemed incredible to him:
The 1500-year-old cemetery had completely been flattened in the
meantime."

There only remains the hope that under the guidance of UNESCO it will
be possible to investigate the situation on the spot and to take care
of the remains of the tombstones, transported away by Azerbaijan
railways probably to be used as material for building
measures. Hopefully, strong protest will at least prevent the
demolition of more Armenian heritage sites in Azerbaijan in the
future. The intentional destruction of the cemetery of Djulfa should
be considered as a crime against the common heritage of
humanity. Apart from that all that remains is deep sorrow for the
irreplaceable loss.

Here is the report of RAA:

Khatchkars are cross-stones about one metre wide and up to 2.50 metres
high, richly decorated with Christian symbols, flowers and arabesque
climbing plants as well as with subjects from daily life. These
delicately engraved stones represent a 1500-year-old tradition of
Armenian stone masons. Khatchkars are unique and were used as
free-standing steles but also as ornaments in the masonry of Armenian
churches and cloisters. Since the early Middle Ages they have been
used as tombstones on cemeteries.

One of the outstanding cemeteries because of the unusually great
number of Khatchkars is the one in the former town of Djulfa (old name
Djugha) in the south of Nachitchevan right on the bank of the river
Araxes which forms the border to Iran. Alexander Rotes mentions this
cemetery in his description of journeys in 1648 and reports of 10.000
fully decorated cross stones. In 1605 the Armenian people of Djulfa
were forced by Shah Abbas to settle in Persia in order to have trade
and commerce developed by them in his country. He destroyed the town
to prevent their return, however left the cemetery untouched. At the
beginning of the 20th century 6000 reclining and standing Khatchkars
were still counted.

After Armenia was incorporated into the Soviet Union Nachitchevan in
the south of Armenia was declared a part of Azerbaijan at Stalin's and
Lenin's behest in 1922. Nachitchevan is still under Azerbaijan's
political sovereignty.

During the Soviet reign this historically and culturally unique
cemetery of Djulfa was not at all under the protection of historical
monuments of Azerbaijan. On the contrary. After 1922 a large number of
Khatchkars disappeared. Considering the close watch of the border of
the prohibited military zone this could not have happened without the
government's knowledge. And more destruction was yet to come.

In November 1998 eye witnesses from the Iranian border zone observed
tombstones being excavated by a crane and loaded onto railroad wagons
on the cemetery grounds across the river Araxes. The ripped-up ground
was then made even again by bulldozers. This destruction lasted for
three weeks and about 800 Khatchkars were taken away. There is reason
to believe that these cross-stones - if not destroyed right away -
were used as building material for foundations of new houses to hide
their removal. The transportation by the State Railway is clear
evidence of the planned action by the Government of Azerbaijan.
Protests on behalf of UNESCO and affiliated organisations finally put
a stop to these barbarous activities.

To our great regret the cultural outrage is going on. Reliable sources
informed us that the destruction not only of the tombstones but also
of the still existing, though greatly reduced churches and cloister
grounds in the area was resumed on 9 November 2002. A great number of
workmen are again dismantling valuable relics of Middle Age Christian
culture partly by demolishing them and partly by taking them away on
trucks to an unknown destination. And yet again this cannot be done
without the permission of the government.

One cannot avoid drawing a parallel to the fundamentally motivated
destruction of the Buddha statues by the Taliban in Afghanistan, which
was accompanied by world-wide protest. Similar to that case we are
here confronted with the systematic obliteration of religious
monuments of a foreign culture, the only difference being that the
destruction in Nachitchevan concerns the European history of
civilisation.

Azerbaijan signed the UNESCO World Heritage Convention in 1993 and is
represented in the parliamentary assembly of the Council of
Europe. Azerbaijan consequently committed itself to the aims of this
institution and should be asked to account for its action in
Nachitchevan.


Dr. Armen Haghnazarian
Dr. Dieter Wickmann

http://groong.usc.ed.../msg132288.html

Look at these pictures :
http://www.cathcil.o...Pictures109.htm

WE CAN'T ACCEPT THAT.
WE MUST LOBBY THE UNESCO, THE UNO, THE COUNCIL OF EUROPE AND OUR DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTS TO STOP THIS
CRIME AND PUNISH AZERBAIJAN.
WE MUST INFORM THE MEDIAS OF THAT.

#19 HOB

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 04:30 AM

Video made from Iranian side

http://clips1.vimeo....vimeo.37011.wmv

#20 MosJan

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 12:27 PM

hetaqrqri klini tesnel te et shan tsundner@ inch en aselu vorpes ardaratsum
inch heqyat en horinelu




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