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Georgy Ivanovitch Gurdjieff
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MJ
, Feb 25 2001 02:40 PM
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#21
Aratta-Kingdom
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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:13 PM
#22
Aratta-Kingdom
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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:26 PM
From the teachings of Gurdjieff:
Q. Is self-remembering the initial process of this system?
A. It is the centre of the initial process, and it has to go on, it must enter into everything. At first this sounds improbable, because you may try to remember yourself, and then you find that for long period of time it does not come to your mind; then again you begin to remember about it. But efforts of this kind are never lost; something accumulates and at a certain moment when in the ordinary state you would have been completely identified and submerged in things, you find that you can stand aside and control yourself. You never know when it will be or how it comes. You must only do what you can---observe yourself, study, and chiefly try to remember yourself; then, at a certain moment, you will see result.
Q. How does one begin to use memory in the sense of self-remembering?
A. Self-remembering is not really connected with memory; it is simply an expression. It means self-awareness, or self-consciousness. One must be conscious of oneself. It begins with the mental process of trying to remember oneself. This capacity to remember oneself must be developed because in self-remembering we must try to study our FUNCTIONS separately from one another---intellectual function separately from the emotional, instinctive separately from moving. This is very important but not easy.
Q. Do you mean we should practice observing these different functions?
A. Yes, at certain moments of the day we must try to see in ourselves what we think, how we feel, how we move and so on. At one time you can concentrate on the intellectual function, at another time on the emotional, then on the instinctive or the moving. For instance, try to find out what you are thinking about, why you think, and how you think about it. Try to observe physical sensations such as warmth, cold, what you see, what hear. Then every time you make a movement you can see how you move, how you sit, how you stand, how you walk and so on. It is not easy to separate instinctive functions, because in ordinary psychology they are mixed with the emotional; it takes some time to put them in their right place.
Q. Would there be any sense in breaking down certain habitual actions, such as going to bed at a certain time at night?
A. Mechanical changes of that kind may be useful in the very beginning of self-study, but they cannot produce any lasting effect. They may help you to see something that you would not have seen otherwise but, by themselves, they cannot produce any change. Change must being from inside, from change of consciousness, from the moment when you begin to remember yourself or even earlier, when you begin to realize the possibility of self-remembering and that it is really important. Only unfortunately it often happens that people start well and then lose the line of efforts.
Q. Does observing mechanicalness impair mechanicalness? I was of physical work.
A. Without work on consciousness all the sides of us that can be conscious will become more and more mechanical. Only very uniform work without any variation is totally mechanical. If work is a little more complicated, then the more mechanical it is the worse it is. In one work is mechanicallness useful---one has to adapt, to change methods in order to produce good work, and for that one has to be aware of what one is doing. Being efficient in physical work does not mean mechanicalness. Training does not make us more mechanical. Being an expert means being intelligent about one's work.
Q. The moving and instinctive centres seem to work more evenly and normally than intellectual and emotional. Why is this so?
A. Because otherwise people wold go to the left instead of going to the right and never get where they want to go. And if the instinctive centre were like the intellectual and the emotional centres are now, a man would soon himself. A certain degree of normality is obligatory for the instinctive and moving centres. Other centres can go mad without immediate harm. In order to understand man's mechanicalness it is very useful to learn and to understand the chief divisions of functions not only in general, not merely in theory, but to study them in their activity, to learn how they work. This division into four function is only a preliminary division, because each of them is gain subdivided. All this has to be studied and understood by observation, because theorical study does not give the same result, does not lead to the same conclusion, does not show the same truth. For instance, very few systems recognize the existence of the instinctive cnetre or instinctive mind, and no system I have heard of recognizes the existaence of and independent moving mind. Yet moving mind plays a very important part in our life, so the absence of this division spoils to a great extent the results of ordinary observation of man, particularly in modern psychology, for, since this fact is not recognized, many things are ascribed to wrong origin. Moving centre is very important to study and observe...Besides, moving centre also controls dreams, and not only dreams at night, but dreams in waking state---day dreams.
Q. Is there a connection between behaving mechanically and moving centre?
A. No, moving centry only means the mind whose legitimate function is to control movements. So 'moving' and 'mechanical' are not the same. Every centre may be mechanical; every function can be more mechanical or less mechanical, more conscious or less consciouls. Certainly, there are some mechanical process in us for which there is no need to become conscious, such s the physiological process which are arranged and controlled by their own mind. But it is our actions as a whole, both in relation to ourselves and to other people, that can become harmful if they are left to themselves.
Q. Is talking always mechanical? I often talk before I have time to stop it.
A. In most cases. this is one of the first thing one has to observe and struggle. with. It is very difficult to observe and difficult to struggle with, but it must be done.
...there may be very different talking; you can talk for the sake of talking, or you can make yourself talk, with effort. Talking can be awakening, and it can be sleep.
Q. Could we be told of some way of making more efforts to observe?
A. If you put yourself in a more difficult position, for instance if you assume an unaccustomed posture, you won't be able to stop observing. We do not observe ourselves because life is too easy. If you are hungry, cold, tired, you will observe yourself. But with civilization there are no strong physical sensations. We smooth out all things before they reach a degree that will make us observe.
Q. Is this the kind of observation you want us to practice? I thought it was observation of our inner states.
A. Everything is useful. You cannot study one side without the other.
Q. Where are the centres situated?
A. It does not matter because each centre occupies the whole body. There is not a single cell in our body that is not controlled by all centres. This must not be taken too literally; for instance, you cannot say that intellect controls every cell, so there are limitations, but speaking generally, each centre controls the whole body in different way. But we cannot know the physical side of ordinary observation; we can study functions, however, and that gives all the material with that is necessary.,
Q. Then one can observe with the intellect?
A. You can do nothing else; that is the only part of us which is to a certain extent under our control, so we can use the mind for observation. Later perhaps you can train other centres to make observations, but that cannot come for a long time. Naturally, other centres must not be in the way. For instance, if you identify emotionally with something, it will prevent your observing; you want to think about one thing, but it will constantly bring you other thoughts, other associations. For a long time we have to work from the intellectual centre, but at the same time we must understand that we cannot go far with it because it has definite limits; it will bring you to a certain point after which you cannot go further unless you can use the emotional centre. But the emotional centre has to be trained first. You must learn not to express negative emotions, and only if you do that for a sufficiently long time can other things be explained
Q. You cannot let your emotions guide you without your intellect, can you?
A. Normally you could, but then we are not quite normal, so they may guide us in a right way or a wrong way. There is no guarantee that they will guide us in the way we want--we may want to go to one place and our emotions may leas us somewhere else.
...Q. Can one encourage the intellectual centre to work?
A. Cultivate attention. You will see that it gives different results. Think with attention. Do not let yourself think mechanically. Mechanical thinking transforms itself into imagination.
Q. What is the difference between doing things consciously and intentionally?
A. We cannot speak about doing things consciously, because were are not conscious. As to doing things intentionally, if you do some work and have to give your attention to it, then even without you noticing it, part of your effort will be connected with keeping attention on what you are doing. But if it becomes quite mechanical, you may be thinking of something else, yet your hands will be still doing it. That will be the mechanical part of the centre. If your work needs constant thinking, invention, adaptation, you have to work with intellectual parts.
The mechanical part of the intellectual centre has a special name. Sometimes it is spoken of as a separate centre, and in that case it is called the formatory centre or formatory apparatus. Most people use only this part; they never use the better part of the intellectual centre. Formatory apparatus has very definite limitations. One of its pecularities is that it compares only two things, as though in any particular line only two things existed. Then formatory centre likes thinking in extremes, for instance it either knows everything or it knows nothing. Another of its peculiarities is immediately to look for the opposite. ...
Q. Can you give an example of formatory apparatus rightly used?
A. If the intellecutal centre does it works normally, that is, if other parts do their work, formatory centre does it world quite all right. It is a registering apparatues. We are concerned only about its wrong work. This refers not only to the formatory aparatus but to all mechanical parts of centres. Only when they begin to world wrongly do they become dangerous. So there is not need to worry about their right work; what you must try to do is eliminate their wrong work. The mechanical part of of the emotional centre wants to do the work of the higher part, and its the same with the formatory centre-- it wants to do the work of the intellectual centre, and as a result the moving part of the centre includes all the intellectual life of an ordinary person. ...
Q. Does work on oneself diminish the functions of the mechanical parts of centres?
A. It will diminish the work of the mechanical parts in the sense that it will diminish mechanicalness where attention and consciousness are useful. The mechanical parts will then do their own world for which they are intended, and perhaps do it better than at present, because now they are too occupied with things that do not concern them. This will enable the better parts of centres to work.
Q. Is mechanicalness to be looked upon as a fact to be observed or as an evil to be fought against?
A. You see, you will never understand mechanicalness if you speak in this way....-...If we look through our life, year by year, month by month, we see things we would never have done conscioulsy, or things we did not do which we would have doen if we were conscious. This is the way to think about mechanicalness.
...Q. I find it difficult to see instances of wrong work of centres. My only observation is that I often experience a sensation of unnecessary excitement.
A. You can see examples when people become unnecessarily emotional in relation to things which would be better done without any emotion.
Q. How can one stop this interference?
A. ...The state of consciousness affects functions, and increased consciousness will create new functions. Complete, real awakening will produce new functions which we do not have now.
Q. The thing to aim at is a perfect adjustment of the four centres.
A. Yes, this is the starting point. After that a man can think about creating higher states of consciousness-about being conscious of himself. ...One centre cannot be improved by itself. All must be improved, must come to normal working. ...For every thought, feeling or action, or for being conscious, we must have corresponding energy. If we have not got it, we go down and work with lower energy---lead merely an animal or vegetable life. Then again we accumulate energy, again have thoughts, can again be conscious for a short time. ...
Q. I have found that trying to keep attention fixed uses a great deal of energy. Does it mean I do it in a wrong way?
A. No, you have to use energy to keep attention. This is work, and work needs energy, although on the other hand it saves energy---it saves waste of energy in another direction. If you are doing things without attention it will mean a much greater loss.
Q. Why is it so difficult to control attention?
A. Lack of habit. We are too accustomed to letting things happen. When we want to control attention or something else, we find it difficult , just as physical work is difficult if we are not accustomed to it.
Q. Why should moments of consciousness be so rare? Is it a question of energy?
A. No fuel. If you have no electricity, or if you have a pocket torch with a bad battery, you may have a flash and then nothing. Consciousness is light, light is the result of a certain energy, if there is no energy there is no light.,
Q. Does the secret of all development of consciousness lie in the conservation and control of energy?
A. No, not all the secret, thought conservation and increase of energy is very important. Energy is the mechanical part of consciousness. We cannot begin with the idea of control. First, we must stop waste of energy; second, collect it by self-remembering; then, adjust things. We cannot begin in any other way.
Q. Can energy be stored?
A. Yes, energy can be stored when you are able to store it. But at first the question is not about storing but about not wasting. We would have enough energy for everything we want to do if we did not waste it on unnecessary things. For instance, the reason why we are so formatory is that we are too dull, we do not feel enough. We think we feel, but this is all illusion. And the reason why we feel so little is because we have no energy available for emotional centre. ...Leak of energy were already spoken about, bu the worst of all is expressing negative emotions. If you can stop the expression of negative emotions, you will save energy and never feel the lack of it. We can only hope to become conscious being if we use in the right way the energy that is now used in the wrong way. ...you waste it on being angry or irritated or something like that, and then very little remains. The normal organism produces quite enough energy not only for all centres but also for storing. ...I want particularly to draw you attention to this idea of negative emotion and the state of negative emotion. This is really the second important point; the first referred to consciousness--- that we are not consciouls and that we can become consciouls. It is necessary to realize that there is no a single useful negative emotion, useful in any sense. Negative emotions are all a sign of weakness. Next, we must realize that we can struggle with them: they can be conqured and destroyed, because there is no real centre for them. If they had a real centre, like instinctive emotions, there would be no chance; we would remain for ever in the power of negative emotions.
Q. But it seems to me there are circumstances that simply induce one to have negative emotions.
A. This is one of the worst illusions we have. We think that negative emotions are produced by circumstances, whereas all negative emotions are in us, inside us. This is very important point. We always think our negative emotions are produced by the fault of other people or by the fault of circumstances. We always think that. Our negative emotions are in ouserlves and are produced by ourselves. There is absolutely not a single unavoidable reason why somebody else's action or some circumstances should produce a negative emotion in us. It is only weakness. No negative emotion can be produced by external causes if we do not want it. We have negative emotions because we permit them, justify them, explain them by external causes and in this way we do not struggle with them.
Q. Is self-remembering the initial process of this system?
A. It is the centre of the initial process, and it has to go on, it must enter into everything. At first this sounds improbable, because you may try to remember yourself, and then you find that for long period of time it does not come to your mind; then again you begin to remember about it. But efforts of this kind are never lost; something accumulates and at a certain moment when in the ordinary state you would have been completely identified and submerged in things, you find that you can stand aside and control yourself. You never know when it will be or how it comes. You must only do what you can---observe yourself, study, and chiefly try to remember yourself; then, at a certain moment, you will see result.
Q. How does one begin to use memory in the sense of self-remembering?
A. Self-remembering is not really connected with memory; it is simply an expression. It means self-awareness, or self-consciousness. One must be conscious of oneself. It begins with the mental process of trying to remember oneself. This capacity to remember oneself must be developed because in self-remembering we must try to study our FUNCTIONS separately from one another---intellectual function separately from the emotional, instinctive separately from moving. This is very important but not easy.
Q. Do you mean we should practice observing these different functions?
A. Yes, at certain moments of the day we must try to see in ourselves what we think, how we feel, how we move and so on. At one time you can concentrate on the intellectual function, at another time on the emotional, then on the instinctive or the moving. For instance, try to find out what you are thinking about, why you think, and how you think about it. Try to observe physical sensations such as warmth, cold, what you see, what hear. Then every time you make a movement you can see how you move, how you sit, how you stand, how you walk and so on. It is not easy to separate instinctive functions, because in ordinary psychology they are mixed with the emotional; it takes some time to put them in their right place.
Q. Would there be any sense in breaking down certain habitual actions, such as going to bed at a certain time at night?
A. Mechanical changes of that kind may be useful in the very beginning of self-study, but they cannot produce any lasting effect. They may help you to see something that you would not have seen otherwise but, by themselves, they cannot produce any change. Change must being from inside, from change of consciousness, from the moment when you begin to remember yourself or even earlier, when you begin to realize the possibility of self-remembering and that it is really important. Only unfortunately it often happens that people start well and then lose the line of efforts.
Q. Does observing mechanicalness impair mechanicalness? I was of physical work.
A. Without work on consciousness all the sides of us that can be conscious will become more and more mechanical. Only very uniform work without any variation is totally mechanical. If work is a little more complicated, then the more mechanical it is the worse it is. In one work is mechanicallness useful---one has to adapt, to change methods in order to produce good work, and for that one has to be aware of what one is doing. Being efficient in physical work does not mean mechanicalness. Training does not make us more mechanical. Being an expert means being intelligent about one's work.
Q. The moving and instinctive centres seem to work more evenly and normally than intellectual and emotional. Why is this so?
A. Because otherwise people wold go to the left instead of going to the right and never get where they want to go. And if the instinctive centre were like the intellectual and the emotional centres are now, a man would soon himself. A certain degree of normality is obligatory for the instinctive and moving centres. Other centres can go mad without immediate harm. In order to understand man's mechanicalness it is very useful to learn and to understand the chief divisions of functions not only in general, not merely in theory, but to study them in their activity, to learn how they work. This division into four function is only a preliminary division, because each of them is gain subdivided. All this has to be studied and understood by observation, because theorical study does not give the same result, does not lead to the same conclusion, does not show the same truth. For instance, very few systems recognize the existence of the instinctive cnetre or instinctive mind, and no system I have heard of recognizes the existaence of and independent moving mind. Yet moving mind plays a very important part in our life, so the absence of this division spoils to a great extent the results of ordinary observation of man, particularly in modern psychology, for, since this fact is not recognized, many things are ascribed to wrong origin. Moving centre is very important to study and observe...Besides, moving centre also controls dreams, and not only dreams at night, but dreams in waking state---day dreams.
Q. Is there a connection between behaving mechanically and moving centre?
A. No, moving centry only means the mind whose legitimate function is to control movements. So 'moving' and 'mechanical' are not the same. Every centre may be mechanical; every function can be more mechanical or less mechanical, more conscious or less consciouls. Certainly, there are some mechanical process in us for which there is no need to become conscious, such s the physiological process which are arranged and controlled by their own mind. But it is our actions as a whole, both in relation to ourselves and to other people, that can become harmful if they are left to themselves.
Q. Is talking always mechanical? I often talk before I have time to stop it.
A. In most cases. this is one of the first thing one has to observe and struggle. with. It is very difficult to observe and difficult to struggle with, but it must be done.
...there may be very different talking; you can talk for the sake of talking, or you can make yourself talk, with effort. Talking can be awakening, and it can be sleep.
Q. Could we be told of some way of making more efforts to observe?
A. If you put yourself in a more difficult position, for instance if you assume an unaccustomed posture, you won't be able to stop observing. We do not observe ourselves because life is too easy. If you are hungry, cold, tired, you will observe yourself. But with civilization there are no strong physical sensations. We smooth out all things before they reach a degree that will make us observe.
Q. Is this the kind of observation you want us to practice? I thought it was observation of our inner states.
A. Everything is useful. You cannot study one side without the other.
Q. Where are the centres situated?
A. It does not matter because each centre occupies the whole body. There is not a single cell in our body that is not controlled by all centres. This must not be taken too literally; for instance, you cannot say that intellect controls every cell, so there are limitations, but speaking generally, each centre controls the whole body in different way. But we cannot know the physical side of ordinary observation; we can study functions, however, and that gives all the material with that is necessary.,
Q. Then one can observe with the intellect?
A. You can do nothing else; that is the only part of us which is to a certain extent under our control, so we can use the mind for observation. Later perhaps you can train other centres to make observations, but that cannot come for a long time. Naturally, other centres must not be in the way. For instance, if you identify emotionally with something, it will prevent your observing; you want to think about one thing, but it will constantly bring you other thoughts, other associations. For a long time we have to work from the intellectual centre, but at the same time we must understand that we cannot go far with it because it has definite limits; it will bring you to a certain point after which you cannot go further unless you can use the emotional centre. But the emotional centre has to be trained first. You must learn not to express negative emotions, and only if you do that for a sufficiently long time can other things be explained
Q. You cannot let your emotions guide you without your intellect, can you?
A. Normally you could, but then we are not quite normal, so they may guide us in a right way or a wrong way. There is no guarantee that they will guide us in the way we want--we may want to go to one place and our emotions may leas us somewhere else.
...Q. Can one encourage the intellectual centre to work?
A. Cultivate attention. You will see that it gives different results. Think with attention. Do not let yourself think mechanically. Mechanical thinking transforms itself into imagination.
Q. What is the difference between doing things consciously and intentionally?
A. We cannot speak about doing things consciously, because were are not conscious. As to doing things intentionally, if you do some work and have to give your attention to it, then even without you noticing it, part of your effort will be connected with keeping attention on what you are doing. But if it becomes quite mechanical, you may be thinking of something else, yet your hands will be still doing it. That will be the mechanical part of the centre. If your work needs constant thinking, invention, adaptation, you have to work with intellectual parts.
The mechanical part of the intellectual centre has a special name. Sometimes it is spoken of as a separate centre, and in that case it is called the formatory centre or formatory apparatus. Most people use only this part; they never use the better part of the intellectual centre. Formatory apparatus has very definite limitations. One of its pecularities is that it compares only two things, as though in any particular line only two things existed. Then formatory centre likes thinking in extremes, for instance it either knows everything or it knows nothing. Another of its peculiarities is immediately to look for the opposite. ...
Q. Can you give an example of formatory apparatus rightly used?
A. If the intellecutal centre does it works normally, that is, if other parts do their work, formatory centre does it world quite all right. It is a registering apparatues. We are concerned only about its wrong work. This refers not only to the formatory aparatus but to all mechanical parts of centres. Only when they begin to world wrongly do they become dangerous. So there is not need to worry about their right work; what you must try to do is eliminate their wrong work. The mechanical part of of the emotional centre wants to do the work of the higher part, and its the same with the formatory centre-- it wants to do the work of the intellectual centre, and as a result the moving part of the centre includes all the intellectual life of an ordinary person. ...
Q. Does work on oneself diminish the functions of the mechanical parts of centres?
A. It will diminish the work of the mechanical parts in the sense that it will diminish mechanicalness where attention and consciousness are useful. The mechanical parts will then do their own world for which they are intended, and perhaps do it better than at present, because now they are too occupied with things that do not concern them. This will enable the better parts of centres to work.
Q. Is mechanicalness to be looked upon as a fact to be observed or as an evil to be fought against?
A. You see, you will never understand mechanicalness if you speak in this way....-...If we look through our life, year by year, month by month, we see things we would never have done conscioulsy, or things we did not do which we would have doen if we were conscious. This is the way to think about mechanicalness.
...Q. I find it difficult to see instances of wrong work of centres. My only observation is that I often experience a sensation of unnecessary excitement.
A. You can see examples when people become unnecessarily emotional in relation to things which would be better done without any emotion.
Q. How can one stop this interference?
A. ...The state of consciousness affects functions, and increased consciousness will create new functions. Complete, real awakening will produce new functions which we do not have now.
Q. The thing to aim at is a perfect adjustment of the four centres.
A. Yes, this is the starting point. After that a man can think about creating higher states of consciousness-about being conscious of himself. ...One centre cannot be improved by itself. All must be improved, must come to normal working. ...For every thought, feeling or action, or for being conscious, we must have corresponding energy. If we have not got it, we go down and work with lower energy---lead merely an animal or vegetable life. Then again we accumulate energy, again have thoughts, can again be conscious for a short time. ...
Q. I have found that trying to keep attention fixed uses a great deal of energy. Does it mean I do it in a wrong way?
A. No, you have to use energy to keep attention. This is work, and work needs energy, although on the other hand it saves energy---it saves waste of energy in another direction. If you are doing things without attention it will mean a much greater loss.
Q. Why is it so difficult to control attention?
A. Lack of habit. We are too accustomed to letting things happen. When we want to control attention or something else, we find it difficult , just as physical work is difficult if we are not accustomed to it.
Q. Why should moments of consciousness be so rare? Is it a question of energy?
A. No fuel. If you have no electricity, or if you have a pocket torch with a bad battery, you may have a flash and then nothing. Consciousness is light, light is the result of a certain energy, if there is no energy there is no light.,
Q. Does the secret of all development of consciousness lie in the conservation and control of energy?
A. No, not all the secret, thought conservation and increase of energy is very important. Energy is the mechanical part of consciousness. We cannot begin with the idea of control. First, we must stop waste of energy; second, collect it by self-remembering; then, adjust things. We cannot begin in any other way.
Q. Can energy be stored?
A. Yes, energy can be stored when you are able to store it. But at first the question is not about storing but about not wasting. We would have enough energy for everything we want to do if we did not waste it on unnecessary things. For instance, the reason why we are so formatory is that we are too dull, we do not feel enough. We think we feel, but this is all illusion. And the reason why we feel so little is because we have no energy available for emotional centre. ...Leak of energy were already spoken about, bu the worst of all is expressing negative emotions. If you can stop the expression of negative emotions, you will save energy and never feel the lack of it. We can only hope to become conscious being if we use in the right way the energy that is now used in the wrong way. ...you waste it on being angry or irritated or something like that, and then very little remains. The normal organism produces quite enough energy not only for all centres but also for storing. ...I want particularly to draw you attention to this idea of negative emotion and the state of negative emotion. This is really the second important point; the first referred to consciousness--- that we are not consciouls and that we can become consciouls. It is necessary to realize that there is no a single useful negative emotion, useful in any sense. Negative emotions are all a sign of weakness. Next, we must realize that we can struggle with them: they can be conqured and destroyed, because there is no real centre for them. If they had a real centre, like instinctive emotions, there would be no chance; we would remain for ever in the power of negative emotions.
Q. But it seems to me there are circumstances that simply induce one to have negative emotions.
A. This is one of the worst illusions we have. We think that negative emotions are produced by circumstances, whereas all negative emotions are in us, inside us. This is very important point. We always think our negative emotions are produced by the fault of other people or by the fault of circumstances. We always think that. Our negative emotions are in ouserlves and are produced by ourselves. There is absolutely not a single unavoidable reason why somebody else's action or some circumstances should produce a negative emotion in us. It is only weakness. No negative emotion can be produced by external causes if we do not want it. We have negative emotions because we permit them, justify them, explain them by external causes and in this way we do not struggle with them.
#23
Louise Kiffer
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Posted 27 August 2011 - 10:19 AM
Do you know that in Armenia there is a Gurdjieff Center which seeks to spread knowledge of Armenian philosopher in his homeland.
The center has been founded Margarita Gurdjieff who is the grand daughter of Gurdjieff. The center is situated in the village of Ohanavan; 35 kms N.O. of Yerevan, she is president of Gurdjieff International.(There is also a center in France in
Avon near Fontainebleau) They work in Ohanavan the same way as her grand-father. She says: I work using several techniques.
First I conduct four individual sessions that take a person to a certain conscious state, after the fourth session, he/she
has a dream. When he/she describes the dream, I borrow the mental information from it that reveals the cause of stress.
Se is a psychologist.
(I read this information in the online "ArmeniaNow" in 2005. I dont't know if it is still working, as she had a problem
of money. She also receives patients in the Surp Mariam Astvadzadzin clinic in Yerevan)
The center has been founded Margarita Gurdjieff who is the grand daughter of Gurdjieff. The center is situated in the village of Ohanavan; 35 kms N.O. of Yerevan, she is president of Gurdjieff International.(There is also a center in France in
Avon near Fontainebleau) They work in Ohanavan the same way as her grand-father. She says: I work using several techniques.
First I conduct four individual sessions that take a person to a certain conscious state, after the fourth session, he/she
has a dream. When he/she describes the dream, I borrow the mental information from it that reveals the cause of stress.
Se is a psychologist.
(I read this information in the online "ArmeniaNow" in 2005. I dont't know if it is still working, as she had a problem
of money. She also receives patients in the Surp Mariam Astvadzadzin clinic in Yerevan)
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