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What dialect is this?


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#21 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:50 PM

Yaman means clever (jarpik)

The dictionary says "yaman=strong violent", like when they say the pepper is yaman.
We have spoken about this in re Dle Yaman, when I interpreted it as Cruel Heart.

Edited by Arpa, 02 February 2014 - 01:51 PM.


#22 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:00 PM

I don't use any dictionary, I go with the common daily usage of it. If you say this kid is yaman, it means (atchqe bats) clever. Maybe it changes according to the sentence, for example the pepper is (hot), the kid is (clever) or the kid is (strong) what I mean is multiple usage.



#23 hagopn

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:19 PM

Yervant, Arpa is also on the right track.  Yaman is used to mean "jarbig", cunning, but also to mean ruthless, remorseless, uncouth.



#24 hagopn

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:27 PM

Excellent!  I knew I could count you.  Team work it is!  --> :)

 

Yervant, it is anonymous.  Modern Turkish is extremely latinized not only in script, but its "modern" vocabulary.  Perhaps Mustafa The Camel essentially had Hagop Debil-anchar (aysinkn Esh oghl eshek) replace most perso-arabic terms with latin terms.

 

What is ճին?  Իզ դատ արաբիկ ֆոր դիմը՞ն։ 



#25 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:46 PM

Jin is ghostly apparition that's what it means, like calling someone "ciniviz" meaning now you see now you don't, usually used for fast kids or unruly. I have never heard the word yaman used as ruthless, I'm not disputing it but from my experience it was always used as mischievous and "takits ashkhatogh" which is cunning.

 

When mustafa camel took over, he ordered the linguists to clean up the non language from foreign words, when they came back with the report, there were only about 500 words which is not enough, the order was given to leave it as it is.



#26 Arpa

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:40 AM

OK. Another attempt.Here is a revised version I am sure it can still be revised.
Comments and corrections are welcome.
Above someone said that it sounded like Sassoun or Tigranakert dialect. Are there any Sassountsis or Tigranakert- tsis here?
--------------

Գնա արի, ման արի, ճին ելար, ճին ելար,
Ճին ելարես թամամ ա , հէրըդ գիտի, տուն արի
Գուրգեն ջան, Բաբկեն ջան հալըս յախսշի յաման ա..:

Ինձի համար լուսնակ ես
Մեր պիպէրը ձեր պիպէրը, ջիկէրը, ջիկէրը
Մատանու անգին ակ ես
Ինձի վառեց Հոռոմիսմը** Կայանէ , Շողակաթը
Ճանը ճարը ջիկէրը:

Այ տղայ ոլոր մոլոր, ճին ելար, ճին ելար ես, թամամ ա
Քանիմըն կոսիմ բոլոր
Գուրգեն ջան, Բաբկեն ջան հալըս յախշի յաման ա

Կապել ես քիրման գօտին:
Մի փախիր, սէրըս դու ես, ճին ելար
Գուրգեն ջան.
Ահ երբ արիր, երբ գտար:
Գլխին լիհշ են , այվախ,, վախ

Ես մոտ եմ, ք ո յարը.


**I think Horomism is meant to be Hripsimeh.Or Roman Gayaneh

Edited by Arpa, 03 February 2014 - 07:43 AM.


#27 man

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:01 PM

 

hagopn says: you might just be right about the dialect

I tried looking for another version of that song in Hemshen section of youtube, no luck so far, I leave the search to others, meanwhile here are 2 Hemshen Armenian songs, they are distinctively different from the one you posted hagopn.

I had a tape recorded with an Armenian song in Tikransketsi dialect sung by a real Tikranaketsi Armenian, which should have looked close or similar to Sasun Armenian dialect since those two towns are not too far from each other. But I do not know where I put that old cassette tape.



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#28 Arpa

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

What the F in the world are you talking about?
Shall we assume that you are of Sassoun or Tigranakert origin?
If so. Then please write something in those Dialects.

#29 MosJan

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:49 PM



#30 Arpa

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

What the F in the world are you talking about?
Shall we assume that you are of Sassoun or Tigranakert origin?
If so. Then please write something in those Dialects.

In Aleppo we used to poke jokes at the sassountsis, most of whom were bakers, furunji, praban
Ertam sassoun banam furun, yepem lahmajoun.

Edited by Arpa, 03 February 2014 - 02:04 PM.


#31 hagopn

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:14 PM

 

Good find!  7/8 rhythm, (in common with Laz, and sometimes Pontic greeks).  The singing is taptepadz, but it is a difficult tempo to sing in.



#32 hagopn

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:17 PM

I also like the double-headed jutak they are playing, the same instrument used by Jivani and Karintsi rooted musicians  , The Pontus is influenced heavily by the Erzngan-Karin cultural belt, which was notoriously rich in musical traditions during the Bagratuni kingdom...   and far beyond if the parasites ever lose control of that territory and we start properly researching the area..



#33 man

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:19 PM

Speaking of Laz, after viewing this video I am convinced the dialect in question is Laz one after all:



#34 man

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:01 PM

In this link there are some Hamshin songs, good luck:
http://www.hemshin.org/songs.html

From same site some history.

They are divided in 3 main groups. The ones in Abkazya and Grasnodor were lucky to escape the massacres of the Turks and assimilation, their Hamshin dialect is slightly different than their kins in Turkey, its more like pure Armenian (no Turkish words), and the Kurdish video that hagopn first posted, if it's in Hamshin dialect then surely it belongs to those Northern Hamshentsis and not to those of Turkey.

In the 8th century, the Armenian Prince Hamam and his father Prince Shabuh Amadouni were forced to leave their lands in Ardaz [map in link] (Vasburagan) under the pressure of the Arab Invasion. The 2 Princes along with their priests, people and soldiers moved to the Black Sea Region where they settled in the destroyed City of Tambur and its surrounding villages (currently Hemshin and ChamliHemshin). Prince Hamam rebuilt the city of Tambur and called it Hamamshen (which in Armenian means Hamam’s city --[actually I think it means 'build by Hamam'. Another thought, is this Armenian prince the one who created the bathhouses and called them "hamam" after his name, a word the Turks took from the Armenians; so after all there are no 'Turkish' hamams but Armenian hamams to bath and scrub]

 

...and over the years Hamamshen became Hamshen in Armenian and Hemshin in Turkish....
they preserved their Armenian Identity, traditions, culture, Christian religion and language for many centuries. Until the 14th century, Hamshen was a kingdom and was ruled by its princes. Almost each village had its Church and its priest....With the establishment of the Ottoman Empire, the problems of Hamshen increased. Look in link for more:
http://www.hemshin.org/history.html

Current Situation:

Currently, there are 3 main groups of Hemshinlis spread over a large geographic area.
1. Eastern Hamshentsis
Eastern Hamshentsis - better known as Hopa Hamshentsis - are the people living in Artvin Province (Turkey); mainly between the cities of Hopa and Borcka. They are dispersed all over Turkey (Ankara, Istanbul, etc...) and Europe (Germany, France). Hopa Hamshentsis are Sunni Muslims. They refer themselves as Homshetsi and their language as Homshetsma (which is basically Armenian).

Hopa Hamshentsis came from Hemsin region during the 18th century. They survived the massacres by converting to Islam but were able to keep their language.  
In the 19th century, a large group of Hopa Hamshentsis migrated to the southern part of Adjaria (currently in Georgia) and settled in 6 villages close to the Turkish border. However, in 1944, upon the orders of Stalin they were all deported to Central Asia where they continue to live.

Another group of Hopa Hemshinlis were transferred to several villages of Sakarya province (Achmabashi and nearby villages) during the 1850s where they still live and keep their language.
Here in this video Hopa Hemshin Armenians are having a feast with wild dancing:


2. Western Hamshentsis
Western Hamshentsis - better known as Bash Hamshentsis - are the people living in Rize Province (Turkey) [next to Trabizon]; mainly in Hemshin, Chamlihemshin and the surrounding villages. They are also dispersed in the main cities of Turkey (Ankara, Istanbul, Izmir, etc…) along with Europe and US. Bash Hamshentsis speak Hemshinji (Hemsince: a Turkish dialect with many Armenian letters) and are Sunni Muslims.

3. Northern Hamshentsis
Northern Hamshentsis are the people currently living on the northern and eastern coasts of the Black Sea [between Rize and Batum]. Mainly in Abkhazya (Georgia) and Grasnodar (Russia). They migrated from Hemsin, Cemlihemsin, Rize, Trabzon, Samsun and Ordu during 18th and 19th centuries.
They speak Homshetsma (similar to Hopa Hamshentsis). Northern Hamshentsis are Christians and unlike most of their brothers in Turkey they know their Armenian origins and some of them have moved to Armenia in the 20th century.

Hamshen history is mixed with blood and tragedy but it’s the history of a courageous and proud people who continue to remain loyal to its roots and ancestors.
 



#35 Arpa

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:36 PM

Speaking of Laz, after viewing this video I am convinced the dialect in question is Laz one after all:

What the XYZ are you talking about?
He we are talking about Sassoun and Tigranakert Dialects and you show us dancing monkeys.
Do you have to say anything intelligent about the subject?
Otherwise shut the &(*%$ up! Go back to your XYZ auntie christe

#36 Arpa

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:01 PM

How about our Ads and Mods ban you and your auntie Christie forever to never come back to pollute the air with your cultic garbage???

#37 Arpa

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:44 AM

Thank you Mods for removing the latest, and my outburst in response.
Please ADVIISE THAT IDIOTIC COMEDIAN TO NEVER AGAIN TALK ABOUT "ARAB ARMENIANS".
If he only knew half as much as us??!!




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