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[Arpa]

Kurds, Armenians, Raffi and Jhad

We often talk about books that some people call "holy". Armenians don't have, have not written a book that can be called holy.
Are you sure?
What about Raffi's Khent?
Everything we need to know about what is good for us, or rather what is bad for us is there. Just as most of Raffi's works Khent is not a fictitious novel, it is a docudrama as if it were news reportage. Raffi is a prophet and he should be declared a saint.
No one has written so extensivley and in such depth about Kurds and Armenians as he, and what he said 122 (1881)years ago still rings the truth.
I spelled "jhad" as it is spelled by Raffi himself çѳÃ. The world thinks they have discovored a new word "jihad", little do w know that Raffi has used the word over a hundred years ago. If the world thinks it is a new threat they should ask us as we have experienced the disastrous effects of jihad even before the world had heard of the Turk, the Kurd and the Arab. Belows we will see that the translator took the liberty to use "holy war" as a synonym, it may be true in spirit as even the inventors of the word at times translate it that way. Jihad literally means struggle, however those who declared jihad against us were hardly struggling, we were and still are. The Armenian word for it would "payqar".

Here is where the following excerpts are taken from. Thank you Raffi K.
http://www.cilicia.com/armoz.html

Chapter XXIV
Below "holy war" which Raffi calls "jhad".

In addition, besides the plundering of the Armenian villages and having the accumulation of ten or twenty years snatched from them at one swoop besides their bitter poverty, they were smitten with terror, they were threatened with universal and frightful misfortune. The Mohammedan element exhibited a brutal ferocity toward the Christians, toward all the giaours. From the lips of each and all was heard the frightful word, "massacre"' The mollahs, muftihs, ghatis and the sheikhs had kindled the fanaticism of the turbulent hosts. They had excited them, preaching "a holy war." In Istanbul, the Sacred banner would soon be unfurled and the "holy war" would be proclaimed, and all Islam must take up the sword against the Christians.

Do you think the Turks have taken the idea of the Armenians betrayal and acting as a fifth column siding with the Russians from this passage?

Chapter 28
"I will tell you, I will tell all, Landlord Khacho; be patient," replied the Effendi, easier now, and speaking with more animation, he explained his meaning with a fresh proverb from his store of such tales, saying, "The ass would not kick against the goad unless he wished to have his leg pricked." From this he drew the conclusion that Armenians should not oppose the Turks, and especially not in time of war. And citing the burning of Van as an example, he began to prove that it is great folly to disobey the Turks. He explained why the Turks of Van had burned several thousand Armenian shops and plundered them of their goods. "Because," he said, "the Armenians there were spying for the Russians. After all," he added, "in this war, the Armenian need not expect gain from the Russians." And again returning to the subject of faithfulness he said the Turks are not as bad as we think; the fate of the Armenian is linked with that of the Turk, and for this reason every plan of revolt must be considered "folly". And for this reason the Effendi considered Salman's behavior "craziness", and he would not be at all sorry to see him severely punished. He was only sorry that on his account some other men would be exposed to danger of punishment also.

In closing, please read the book and see how the Kurd has sucked the blood of the Armenian and lived by pillage and murder all in the name of religion and as a favor to the Ottomans who let them do their dirty job for them. I wonder what the Kurds say if we were to murder and rob them as a favor to the ruling parties in Ankara?


And the Kurds; Chapter 32
*Raffi's note. Because Mohammedans consider swine unclean, they use clothes brushes made of donkeys' hair instead of pigs bristles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The ass is still an ass, but the mule is worse," replied the Effendi in his usual style. "The Kurds are as bad as mules for they are illegitimate."

The night was nearly over. Zoulo, sitting apart near her sick child, listened in displeasure to the conversation of the guests, which was very tiresome for her. She waited patiently for them to finish, to cease drinking wine, in order that she might be able to go to Sara and Stephanie to see what condition they were in.

But the Effendi did not intend to sleep yet. He had much more to say to the priest and only the presence of Chorister Simon hindered him. For this reason he remarked that he would like to go to sleep for he was obliged to rise early in the morning on account of important business. The chorister, bidding him goodnight, left. After he had gone the priest said, "He knows more than seven bishops, the poor fellow, but alas, he likes to drink too well. Did you see how well he read off the account of my dues?"

Resistence;Chapter 41


"A small but very significant event proves that my supposition is not wrong; I will tell it briefly. After the emigration, when the Russian Army had left Bayazid and the province of Alashgerd, i.e., when those places returned into the hands of the Turks, then, as I told you, the Kurds began to rob, massacre and torture the remaining Armenians. At that time a few hundred families left their homes and fortified themselves in the mountains.

"Now picture several thousand Kurds fighting for several weeks against those brave men who not only would not surrender but, making more successful attacks, were able to snatch rich booty from the enemy and military materiel also. My heart is filled with unbounded joy when I remember those never-to-be-forgotten days. Not only the young men fought, but the old men and the women. I am sure now a people which has inherited valor from its ancestors, will never submit to enslavement. Enslavement may crush and break the spirit of bravery temporarily, but can never destroy it. When fortune strikes the hour it walks again with its ancient strength, and with ever more power. I saw that with my own eyes. And the only cause for rejoicing which can comfort me, in these days of misery is this."

Plesse, let us read the book before we jump to conclusion ans see how the Kurd joyfully tobbed and plundered the Armenians as a means of lifestyle ans sutenance just as a favor to the Ottomans doing their dirty word for them.
What would the Kurds say if we were to rob and murder them as a favor the powers to be in Ankara???

[nairi]

The only thing I really didn't like about this book was the last chapter and the fact that he envisions Kurds being assimilated with the Armenians. Perhaps because I was reading it in this modern era where ideas as such are considered extremely racist and "übermensch-ish". I was hoping Raffi would end his book envisioning a peaceful future alongside the Kurds...

[Arpa]

The only thing I really didn't like about this book was the last chapter and the fact that he envisions Kurds being assimilated with the Armenians. Perhaps because I was reading it in this modern era where ideas as such are considered extremely racist and "übermensch-ish". I was hoping Raffi would end his book envisioning a peaceful future alongside the Kurds...

Nairi, you bring a valid point.
However assimilation is a fact, or rather the mixture.
As you saw above Raffi alludes to the fact that the Kurd or whoever for that, stole our best(women) thereby improving their gene pool while we were left with the less desirable (shame on Raffi!). Yes we did mix with our neighbors it is more plausible than having Mongolian blood or Jewish blood, both of which are several lands removed.
In fact as you wrote the above I was thinking.
If the Kurds had ambitions of independence, (did they?) why then did they side wuth the oppressor rather than ally with the other oppresseds forging an alliance and a just and livable division of the land? Are they willing to do that now?

ARE WE???

Or would that be against our Christian heritage?
What a blasphemy!! To ally with the infidel!!
Where are the Byzantians!!!???
Are they known as Greeks now?
Beware of ..... bearing gifts?

[Arpa]

The only thing I really didn't like about this book was the last chapter and the fact that he envisions Kurds being assimilated with the Armenians. Perhaps because I was reading it in this modern era where ideas as such are considered extremely racist and "übermensch-ish". I was hoping Raffi would end his book envisioning a peaceful future alongside the Kurds...

I just noticed something. Thank you Nairi.
When I quoted from Chapter 32 I did not realize that a whole paragraph was missing. Whether it was by default or design?
It seems, just like you some other people did not like that paragraph either.
Here it is;My translation.
It follows the paragraph that ends:

"The ass is still an ass, but the mule is worse," replied the Effendi in his usual style. "The Kurds are as bad as mules for they are illegitimate."
----------

The comparison of the Kurd to the mule, not only in the Effendi's opinion but in the oipinion of many Armenians, is that the Kurd is evil and unjust, because just the like mule he is a bastard and a mongrel. Our people have a low opinion of illegitimates. But what is true is that the Kurd mixing with the Armenian, while losing some of their ethnic identity they created a new and noble race. By choosing the best looking and the most handsome of our boys and girls (the Kurd very much likes tall women) they beautified their race. In contrast, the Armenian, losing their most select, slowly but surely turned outlandish (aylandak). Those who closely study Turkish, Kurdish and Armenian affairs will find much similarity among them beacause the KURD IS NONE OTHER THAN A NEW RACE DERIVED FROM THE ARMENIAN(highlight, upper case mine)

Is that what bothers you?

[nairi]

Is that what bothers you?

No, sorry It's the very last chapter that bothered me the most. I don't have the book here with me now and can't remember the details all too well, but I remember that he said something about the village Vartan (?) wakes up to where everything is peaceful (again) thanks to the Armenians and the Kurds who have assimilated with them after realizing that the Armenians were a superior race.

I'm wondering to which degree these thoughts (including the one you quoted) coincide with Raffi's. Maybe he was just describing/recording the general Armenian thought at the time from a distance. That's how I read the book. But the last chapter was almost like a wake-up call for me making me realize that the narrator may well be Raffi himself, expressing what he truly believed was right.

[Armat]

Kurds, Armenians, Raffi and Jhad

We often talk about books that some people call "holy". Armenians don't have, have not written a book that can be called holy.
Are you sure?
What about Raffi's Khent?
Everything we need to know about what is good for us, or rather what is bad for us is there. Just as most of Raffi's works Khent is not a fictitious novel, it is a docudrama as if it were news reportage. Raffi is a prophet and he should be declared a saint.

Raffi is my favorite writer notice I said writer not an Armenian writer since his works simply trancends into great works of world literature. I read him a lot in my teens but now I understand him even better.I also like the "Kaiser" and "Khachagoghi hishatakaran@" He also wrote detail history of Artsagh's isghaneri history.

[Armat]

It is pretty interesting that Raffi gave great importance to arms struggle in general and notably to counter offenses by the Armenians of Artsagh against the Kurds and Turks and on the opposite spectrum he describes how Armenian kids in Iran were harassed maliciously and their parents put through enormous taxes but they were too afraid even to keep a sword in their houses. Artsagh’s Armenians never really succumbed to invaders due mostly to their courageous character.

[Teutonic Knight]

Or would that be against our Christian heritage?
What a blasphemy!! To ally with the infidel!!
Where are the Byzantians!!!???
Are they known as Greeks now?
Beware of ..... bearing gifts?

Armenians can claim to be Byzantines just as much Greeks can.

[TashnagZinvor]

Armenians were the first to translate the Bible into another language, and distribute it amongst Byzantine. The first copy of the Bible in Serbia and Croatia was in Armenian.

[Harut]

Armenians were the first to translate the Bible into another language, and distribute it amongst Byzantine. The first copy of the Bible in Serbia and Croatia was in Armenian.

and what language was it translated from? Greek? Hebrew? Latin? or all three?

just fyi, armenian alphabit was put in use in the year of 405. christianity was already quite popular among romans, armenians, and others at that time.

[TashnagZinvor]

From Hebrew, its original text. I'm sure you as an educated historian know that Christianity was not socially acceptable in Roman culture untill after 600AD, when sooner or later Roman bassilicas would be transformed to Churches, and the first Latin Biblical Text would have been written. Armenian, was the second language the Bible was written and distributed as a nation and people. Greek alphabets were not printed untill Byzantium. You have to remember, that a book, was not printed in those days, but hand written, which came out to be a multi-million dollar government project so to speak. It wasnt something done everyday by the local printing factory.

Im sure you also knew that the Armenian alphabet was created so that Mashtots, a christian, could provide the church with an entity to unite the Armenians? of coarse you did You also knew that Armenia was the first Nation to adopt christianity, making it social and legally acceptable? yep yep

Edited by TashnagZinvor, 14 December 2003 - 05:00 AM.

[TashnagZinvor]

Harut dont think Im trying to make Armenians look like the wholy christian nation of God...I hate christianity, and all other Semite religions. If it were up to me I would erase christianity from the history of the Armenians and replace it with Kragapasht.

[Sasun]

Harut dont think Im trying to make Armenians look like the wholy christian nation of God...I hate christianity, and all other Semite religions. If it were up to me I would erase christianity from the history of the Armenians and replace it with Kragapasht.

I am so glad it is not up to you.

[TashnagZinvor]

No, instead you'd rather have it up to the Jew to control your destiny. Of coarse, it's the blind idiocy of the Armenian's to do so...

[Teutonic Knight]

No, instead you'd rather have it up to the Jew to control your destiny. Of coarse, it's the blind idiocy of the Armenian's to do so...

lol if only you weren't a dashnak and stopped calling hook nosed swarthy freaks Armenian you would get along with my White Armenian nationalist friends quite well.

[Sasun]

Tashnag, I suggest you worry about your own destiny.

[TashnagZinvor]

Your racial generalizations are also imposed on me, since I cannot claim to be anything other than the seemingly united ARMENIANS. Therefore, it is my destiny in every which way or form, the interests of both my Armenians, and yours, despite my disliking for them. Teutonic Knight I find it hard to beleive that you would know anything about geneology, and also find it hard for an Eastern Armenian, with an overwhelmingly non-white, non-european, irano-afghan influenced swarthy beings to be part of a white nationalistic group. In either case, the Armenians are not WHITE, therefore there is no way you are white unless you are depigmented in every aspect of the body hair and eyes, ultimately being a Nord. Which I find extremely hard to beleive. Perhaps you might display forms of Caucasian ancestry. Tell me, who are your "white" armenian nationlist friends? Id appreciate it if you called my by my proper screen-name, Deudonic Gnight.

[Yeznig]

The central weakness of modern Armenian political thought is expressed in its treatment of the Kurdish question. Raffi was, despite his brilliance, no exception. Nevertheless 'Khente' remains a classic work worthy of study. Here an evaluation of it.


'The Fool' retains significance for Armenians and for all oppressed peoples. It also
retains its capacity to inspire. Its essential value is expressed best
in a contemporary appreciation by an African-American jazz trumpeter
who writes:

'Wow!! What a book. I absolutely love it and I feel it. I'd heard
a little bit about the Armenian people and I was glad to delve
deeply into this book. I used to wonder how Franz Fanon, a black
psychiatrist from the little Island of Martinique, could become so
involved in the Algerian Revolution. Damn he wasn't even
Algerian. But I'll tell you, as I have been reading this book, if
I lived during those times I'd be for the Armenian people. Raffi
... was the Malcolm X of the 1800's. What incredible foresight and
beautiful poetic analogies.'

[Hayeforlife]

are the Kurds a trhreat to us Armenians?
what do you think about a Kurd state?

[Stormig]

Can't imagine. Whose blood do they suck on?