9 replies to this topic

[Arpa]

TOUMANIAN THE MAN

This is a takeoff from EddiE’s excellent critique. I felt kind of awkward making ethno-socio-political comments under the category of Literature.
http://hyeforum.com/...=0
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Yes dear Zartonk, you said it so much more eloquently than me.
You have affirmed my point that we don’t take Toumanian “seriously“, but just a story teller. His Sasna Tsrer, even if it IS only a medieval epic legend has so much history, culture, and social commentary. Msra Melik/King of (Msr) Egypt, is none other than the Mamluks of Egypt that devastated Kilikia and caused its demise. Khantut is of Persian culture, just as the “pehlivans”. Dzenov Ohan the uncle is a portrayal of our soft underbelly/yellowbelly/cowardice and avarice. We can go on, take every one of the characters, be they in rhyme or prose and see the message behind it. His parable “A Drop of Honey” that is usually taken as an entertainment has a powerful message.
Even his most memorable and loved opus Anush is rife with social commentary, if only we go beyond the “song and dance“ and everything nice. I have known the opera for a long time I have even sung in it, I have seen it a few times at the Yerevan Opera house, but when I first saw it, I was so overtaken by emotion I could not hold back and hide, I had to exit . It must be mandatory for everyone to see Anush Opera in Yerevan.
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Komitas was commissioned and agreed to compose the music, but when He lost his muse and “(musical)musa’s”) and soul. Armen Tigranian took over, and did a wonderful job.

[Zartonk]

As you mention, the epic displays different vestiges of our history within it. This I see as a testament to the timeless adaptability of memetic transfer, the organic and mobile means by which a folk preserve information. The epic, then, is the selective collection of the most revered and expressive ideals of a given people, the ultimate motif within which the real events of the time find a context.

This is a discussion that is extensive, and it may need a venue seperate from Toumanian's topic.

[Eddie]

TOUMANIAN THE MAN

This is a takeoff from EddiE’s excellent critique. I felt kind of awkward making ethno-socio-political comments under the category of Literature.
http://hyeforum.com/...=0
----
Yes dear Zartonk, you said it so much more eloquently than me.
You have affirmed my point that we don’t take Toumanian “seriously“, but just a story teller. His Sasna Tsrer, even if it IS only a medieval epic legend has so much history, culture, and social commentary. Msra Melik/King of (Msr) Egypt, is none other than the Mamluks of Egypt that devastated Kilikia and caused its demise. Khantut is of Persian culture, just as the “pehlivans”. Dzenov Ohan the uncle is a portrayal of our soft underbelly/yellowbelly/cowardice and avarice. We can go on, take every one of the characters, be they in rhyme or prose and see the message behind it. His parable “A Drop of Honey” that is usually taken as an entertainment has a powerful message.
Even his most memorable and loved opus Anush is rife with social commentary, if only we go beyond the “song and dance“ and everything nice. I have known the opera for a long time I have even sung in it, I have seen it a few times at the Yerevan Opera house, but when I first saw it, I was so overtaken by emotion I could not hold back and hide, I had to exit . It must be mandatory for everyone to see Anush Opera in Yerevan.
---
Komitas was commissioned and agreed to compose the music, but when He lost his muse and “(musical)musa’s”) and soul. Armen Tigranian took over, and did a wonderful job.

This of course is absolutely correct. It does not do to underestimate Toumanian as an artist who was simultaneously a profound thinker and critic in ALL his work. A fantastic commentary 'Daredevils of Sasun' Poetics of an Epic by Azat Yeghiazaryan deals with the manifold significance of this epic.

Here my own little note that will be part of my commentary on Toumanian's epic poetry of national and social liberation.

-----------------------

Toumanian’s stature as a narrative poet who was also a social and political thinker of substance is cemented in his ever-popular retelling of the Armenian national epic ‘David of Sassoon’. A gripping drama that pits superhuman David representing the Armenian people against the imperial Arab invader Toumanian’s retelling synthesises those democratic and moral principles that shape the best progressive trends within all popular national liberation movements. Describing David’s preparation for battle against imperial invaders coming to seize ‘forty caravans filled with Armenian gold and forty caravans filled with beautiful Armenian women’ Toumanian also defines the main characteristics of the two dominant trends within national liberation movements across the globe.

A unique individual gifted with superhuman strength David of Sassoon is however devoid of selfish egoism that would pit him against community and collective. A ‘crazy brave born to the Armenian nation’, he is fearless, recognising ‘neither lord nor master’. Though a king he lives like and within the common people. His every action, his every emotion and feeling, his very being expresses his dedication to the community and the people. David does not of course represent a particular or typical individual. An epic figure with mythical dimensions that are developed with brilliant wit and drama he is the artistic representation of the collective, of the community and nation, its interests, its ambitions and moral vision. As such David has no time for debate or negotiation about the right of nations to self-determination. He cannot understand why others worry when he prepares to take on the Arab invaders.
‘What will the king of Syria do me anyway
What am I asking from the king
Let the king remain in Syria
What business does he have in my father’s mountains

National independence is an inalienable right and anyone seeking to subvert it must be resisted with uncompromising determination and all the force necessary.

David’s uncle, Dzenov Ohan is an absolute opposite. Albeit Armenian, he represents only the narrow, selfish elite that so often dominates national liberation movements. He refuses to resist or to fight. He hides away the famous family sword and locks away the epically powerful stallion inherited from his forefathers. In Dzenov Ohan’s explanation of his compromising ways we hear the refrain of all opportunist politicians. Pretending to care for the people he happily considers surrendering caravans of Armenian gold and Armenian women claiming that this will ‘ensure’ that imperial power ‘looks upon us with gentle eye’. No doubt if Dzenov Ohan were to have had his way, he and his family may have been safe. But the common people whose mothers, wives, sisters and daughters are surrendered along with their national wealth, it is they who would pay the price of Dzenov Ohan’s security. This David will not tolerate.
‘I shall not hand over he said, my father’s gold
I shall not hand over the women of my people.
In the land of Sassoon there is no place for you.’


The personification of ruthless and uncompromising resistance David is however also a democrat and humanist. He has no contempt or animosity for other peoples and other nations. His enemy is not the common Arab man and woman, not even the rank and file Arab solider who has invaded Armenia under the command of the Arab emperor.
Your order common people, shepherds he said
Penniless, in darkness, hungry and pained
A thousand fires and woes
A thousand worries you have
What have you lifted arrow and bow
And come to foreign fields.
Do we not also have home and hearth
We too have children and our old.

The end of David’s address to the defeated Arab soldiers whom he has spared speaks of a patriotism that is at once a profound humanism and internationalism, a patriotism the revival of which is so urgently necessary today:
‘Return along the road you came
To your homeland of Msra
But if once again you come upon us
with sword and soldier
You’ll find before you like today
David of Sasson and Tour-Gayzag.

Hovanness Toumanian’s poetry of national and social engagement, like his poetry of love and life is driven exclusively by a preoccupation with and concern for the actual character and quality of the everyday life of ordinary men and women. His nationalists, patriots and social rebels do not go about with boastful swagger or superior airs mouthing bombastic phrases and slogans that all too frequently muddy the fields of Armenian literature. They are all cut from the same human cloth as those from his poetry of love and life. They oppose oppression and exploitation because these are negations of life, because these obstruct and destroy the flowering of love and solidarity. It is in this that Toumanian’s poetry stands as a welcome and edifying corrective to the intolerant, anti-democratic nationalism s of today that with chauvinist, exclusivist and irrational assertions of national superiority would have appalled David of Sassoon.

[Arpa]

Don't blame me. Blame all those yahoos who have harassed and dismissed the likes of Nairi, Johannes, and MJ.
Thank you.
As always, Eddie'’s signature”, a must read”, why we should read” and worth a read”.. Yes indeed it is “worth a read”.
Please read the entire article. Here;
http://www.groong.or...c-20100614.html

Hovannes Toumanian's most popular epic `Anoush' is a universal tale of the tragedy of Anoush and Saro whose quest for love and life is destroyed by a complex of those perennially recurring human passions, of pride, humiliation, revenge and murder. Essentially a novel in verse form `Anoush' is characteristically dense with revealing event and action. Integral to a swiftly moving plot are some of Toumanian's abiding social and moral preoccupations including those of personal responsibility, collective solidarity and the danger of irrational or bigoted individual and mob behaviour that appear here exacerbated by a web of unjust social relations and bigoted moral laws. ..

As indicated before, it takes a “critical eye” to see beyond the “entertaining”, the fabulist, the writer of children’s rhymes façade of Toumanian, Eddie digs deep down to show us Hovannes’ serious side of a philosopher, a socio-political commentator, a critique of the times’ bigotry and mostly misogynic prejudices.
Whereas I and many of us remember the Opus Anush as a source of entertainment, sing and dance to tunes like Hambartsum Yayla, Ampi Takits or conversely weep and cry with tunes like “Bartsr Sarer”, “Aghji Anastouats” , or when we agree with Mossi’s solo “Amot Qez Mossi” , we forget and agree to “shame on you Mossi”, where in fact he is talking about his dark inner thoughts and intentions to avenge his treacherous defeat by a blinded and love smitten Saro, who breaks all existing social norms where a wrestling match is just an entertaining demonstration, who defying all that treacherously humiliates his “best friend”. The drunken village mob is not without blame when they ridicule Mossi. Whose “male” ego bigger, Saro’s or Mossi’s? To Saro Anush is just a toy, and to Mossi she is just a nobody, a little sister, an error of genes that she was born a girl, not a boy.**
Please read further to see Maro and Sako to see the bigotry and prejudices of the time.
**Do you remember what Spartans did to baby girls? They took them beyond the mountains and let nature do its work. How many of us are fathers? How many of us have had female offspring?
For lack of better sources here is one.

The historical Greeks considered the practice of adult and child sacrifice barbarous.[24] However, exposure of newborns was widely practiced in ancient Greece. In Greece the decision to expose a child was typically the father's, although in Sparta the decision was made by a group of elders.[25] Exposure was the preferred method of disposal, as that act in itself was not murder; moreover, the exposed child technically had a chance of being rescued by the gods or any passersby.[26] This very situation was a recurring motif in Greek mythology.[27]
The practice was prevalent in ancient Rome, as well. Philo was the first philosopher to speak out against it.[28] A letter from a Roman citizen to his wife, dating from 1 BC, demonstrates the casual nature with which infanticide was often viewed:

Edited by Arpa, 15 June 2010 - 11:35 AM.

[Arpa]

A very disturbing story. We will see if we can learn more about it.
What will the sign on the building say, Tumanoglu?
http://news.am/eng/news/89339.html

January 17, 2012 | 01:37
Turkish hostel to be opened in Armenian Tumanyan’s house-museum in Georgia

January 16, 2012 | 18:00
YEREVAN. - House-museum of Armenian famous writer Hovhannes Tumanyan in Tbilisi, Georgia will be sold, Armenian community in Tbilisi informs Armenian News-NEWS.am.
Part of the house-museum was sold to a businessman in 1990s, who is going to sell it to a Georgian-Turkish company Geo Turan. The latter will build a hostel for Turkish citizens. The company has offered Tumanyan’s grand-grandchild Alain Tumanyan to sell the other part, however, received a negative response.
Armenian Ministry of Culture expects information from Georgia to understand the situation and take corresponding measures, head of the Ministry press service Gayane Durganyan told Armenian News-NEWS.am.

Հունվար 17, 2012 | 01:38
Հովհաննես Թումանյանի տուն-թանգարանը վաճառվելու է վրաց-թուրքական ընկերությանը

Հունվար 16, 2012 | 18:00
Ամենայն հայոց բանաստեղծ Հովհաննես Թումանյանի տուն-թանգարանը վաճառվելու է: Այս մասին NEWS.am-ը տեղեկանում է Թբիլիսիի հայ համայնքի տարածած հաղորդագրությունից։ Նրանց փոխանցմամբ` 90-ականներին թանգարանի մի հատվածը հանձնվել է մի գործարարի, ով այսօր տուն-թանգարանը պատրաստվում է վաճառել վրաց-թուրքական «Ջեո Թուրան» ընկերությունը: Վերջինն էլ, իր հերթին, այն դարձնելու է թուրքերի համար նախատեսված հանրակացարան: Թբիլիսիի հայ համայնքի տվյալներով՝ «Ջեո Թուրանը» Թումանյանի ծոռ Ալեն Թումանյանին առաջարկել է վաճառել տուն–թանգարանի երկրորդ հարկը, սակայն մերժում է ստացել:
Այս խնդրի հետ կապված փորձեցինք մեկնաբանություն ստանալ Մշակույթի նախարարությունից: NEWS.am-ի թղթակցի հետ զրույցում ասաց ՀՀ մշակույթի նախարարության մամուլի ծառայության ղեկավար Գայանե Դուրգարյանը նշեց, որ իրավիճակը հստակեցնելու համար այժմ իրենք Վրաստանից սպասում են տեղեկատվության, որպեսզի հասկանան, թե ինչ է կատարվում եւ ըստ այդմ` քայլեր ձեռնարկեն:

[Zartonk]

Pardon my French, but that's a f***ing travesty.

[Arpa]

Pardon my French, but that's a f***ing travesty.

You said a mouthful dear Zartonk.
What will be next?
Sell the Pantheon/All gods/Դիցարան to mehmet?
After all, our most venerable gods, the likes of Komitas, born in Kotina/Kutahya,furkey, Charents, born in Kars(furkey), Sevak born in the then known village of Chanakhchi in the azizbekov region, now known as Sevak and Vayots Dzor respectively.
Are the sacred remains of Charents and Sevak re-interred at the Pantheon? Nairi told us that Bakounts’ house museum is now a boutique. Is there a limit to sacrilege/Սրաբապղծում?
We read that the “brain drain/emigration” is at an all time high. At this rate of evacuation, the Pantheon will be renamed “allahlar”,Lalvar/Allah Verdi,** Vanadzor/karakiliseh/kirovakan/Vanadszor….
Shall we redefine հայրենասիրում patriotism with գլենտեյլնասիրում/Glendale-a-siroum /մոսկվասիրում?
Read the rest here;
http://www.armeniano...aphic_situation

Experts warn that Armenia’s rapid, increasing and damaging emigration is a natural response to the country’s economic policy. Further, economic development suffers, as prevailingly well-educated people are leaving Armenia and their skills and knowledge contribute to other countries’ progress.

Related,,see # 13 by Ani;
http://hyeforum.com/...=0

** http://hyeforum.com/...=1

Edited by Arpa, 17 January 2012 - 03:33 PM.

[Yervant1]

BUSINESSMAN TO SELL TUMANYAN'S TBILISI APARTMENT TO GEORGIAN COMPANY; ARMENIA SENDS DELEGATION
Marine Madatyan

hetq
19:16, January 18, 2012

Four rooms of a seven room apartment in Tbilisi where Armenia's
"national poet" Hovhannes Tumanyan once resided is to be sold by the
family given the property by the Georgian government in the 1990s.

Archil Lezhav, the son of a wealthy Georgian businessman, says he
will sell the place to a Georgian company called Georgia Touran to
pay for his father's surgical bills.

At a press conference today in Yerevan, Irma Safrazbekyan, a
granddaughter of Tumanyan, lamented the fact that Armenians never
purchased the home when it had the chance.

"My husband and I met with Lezhav senior in 2004. He was a pleasant
man and said that he knew of Hovhannes Tumanyan and felt it improper
to change anything in the apartment. He offered to sell the place
for $25,000. At the time, the Armenian government argued it didn't
have the money," Safrazbekyan told reporters.

Concerned about the looming sale, the Armenian government has sent
a delegation to Tbilisi for negotiations with Lezhav's son.

The delegation will be headed by the Levon Ananyan, President of the
Writers Union of Armenia.

Ananyan noted that the market price for the 120 square meter apartment
is around $70,000.

Yesterday, employees of Georgia Touran visited Alyona Tumanyan,
the poet's great granddaughter who owns the other three rooms and
proposed that she sell them to the company as well. She refused.

Alyona Tumanyan told Irma Safrazbekyan that she would only sell
the three rooms if Lezhava agreed to transfer his four rooms to the
Armenian community as a cultural center.

Writer and literature expert Hovik Charkhchyan told reporters that
he wasn't hopeful of a positive outcome from the delegation's visit.

"The bitter experience of the past leads one to believe that we will
lose the Tumanyan home for all times. It won't matter who purchased
it or for what purpose," he said.

[Arpa]

http://news.am/pic/news/91375.jpg


What the %^&# is happening!!!
A SCANDAL of epic proportions.
Now that we have seen your jaws, show us your pockets. We have not yet seen even one “touman” ** or one Luma. Look at all the punchunis below who have been exercising their jaws, chewing the fat . Ջուր են ծեծում.
**We will see what a “touman” is under another subject.
If my memory serves me right, when this scandal first broke out they were talking about an asking price of some $ 70K . Heck! Many of us here can come up with that kind of money out of their piggy banks, or forego one day in Las Vegas.
CAUTION! Who ever ends up buying that property better have honest and international real estate lawyers, unless it end up like some “mickey mouse” real estate deals in Yerevan Province.
If I were to have my I would take that house out of that damn country and move it piece by piece, stone by stone to Hovaness’ birthplace Dsegh.
http://hetq.am/eng/news/9928/
Gyumri Mayor Pledges to Buy Tumanyan House
16:02, 31 January, 2012
Chairman of the Writers Union of Armenia ,Levon Ananyan, told reporters today that Gyumri Mayor Vardan Ghukasyan has pledged to purchase the Hovhannes Tumanyan house in Tbilisi from its current owner Archil Lezhava.
“The Mayor of Gymri has purchased the house on his own funds. I talked to Lezhava this morning and he is ready to wait for a few weeks,” Ananyan said at the press conference.
----
http://news.am/eng/news/91366.html
February 1, 2012 | 19:23
Armenian mayor to buy famous Armenian poet’s house in Tbilisi
January 31, 2012 | 14:03
YEREVAN.- Mayor of Gyumri Vardan Ghukasyan will buy the house of famous Armenian poet Hovhannes Tumanyan, chairman of Armenian Writers’ Union Levon Ananyan told reporters on Tuesday. As he informed he had received a letter from Gyumri’s mayor in which the mayor stated that the Gyukasyan family was ready to donate money in order to buy Tumanyan’s house.
There were rumors earlier that Prosperous Armenia leader Gagik Tsarukyan was planning to buy the house but later those rumors were dismissed.
To note, on January 19 a group Armenian intellectuals led by Writers’ Union Chairman Levon Ananyan went to Tbilisi to clarify the matter.
After returning from Tbilisi Levon Ananyan announced that the house owner was an honest young man who had promised to give the house to the Armenian side if they give him a likewise house in return.
To note, it was informed that Hovhannes Tumanyan’s house-museum was to be sold. In the release, which was issued by Tbilisi’s Armenian community, it is noted that a section of the museum was sold to a businessmen, who now wants to sell the house-museum to a Georgian-Turkish company. And the latter plans to turn it into a boarding house for Turks. The company had also proposed Tumanyan’s great-grandson, Alen Tumanyan, to sell the second floor of the house-museum, but its proposal was rejected.
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---
The following is response to rumors that a certain businessman had bought the house.
---
http://hetq.am/eng/print/9920/

Tsarukyan Hasn't Purchased Tumanyan House, Claims Spokesman
12:58, 31 January, 2012
The press spokesman for Prosperous Armenia Party President Gagik Tsarukyan has denied reports that the wealthy businessman has purchased the house once owned by Hovhannes Tumanyan in Tbilisi.
Irma Safrazbekyan, grand-daughter of the famous poet, had stated that the house had indeed been purchased by an unknown buyer.
Recent reports in the Armenian press that a part of the Tumanyan house was up for sale and was to be snatched up by a Georgian businessman caused a veritable uproar in many circles.

Edited by Arpa, 01 February 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[Arpa]

http://www.panorama....tumanyans-home/

18:04 15/02/2012 » Topic of the day
Ghukasyan brothers to pay USD 145000 for Hovhannes Tumanyan’s Tbilisi house
The purchase agreement of Hovhannes Tumanyan’s Tbilisi house will be signed on February 22. The house will be sold for USD 145000, Chairman of the Writers’ Union of Armenia Levon Ananyan told a Panorama.am reporter from Tbilisi.

We will remind that Mayor of Gyumri Vardan Ghukasyan said Ghukasyan brothers are ready to buy with their own financial means the part of the house which belongs to A. Lezhava (120 sq.m.) to donate it to the Armenian community of Tbilisi. He wrote a letter of obligation.

A delegation left for Tbilisi on Tuesday which included Chairman of the Writers’ Union of Armenia Levon Ananyan, the cousin of Gyumri Mayor, MP Artyom Ghukasyan, and two representatives of Gyumri Mayor’s Office.

Levon Ananyan said that they and Armenian Ambassador to Georgia Hovhannes Manukyan met with A. Lezhava today.

“I think there will be no obstacles and the purchase agreement will be signed on February 22,” said he.

http://hetq.am/eng/n...now-damage.html
Tumanyan House-Museum Suffers no Snow Damage