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#1 Arpa

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 08:19 AM

UrarTurk?
Look what is going on.
First it was the Hittites, I mean HitTurks.
The Turkish word for culture is "kultur", kulTurk?

David O’Byrne’s article
“Istanbul exhibit focuses on lost empire of Urartu” (Nov. 7)

It saddens me deeply that Turkey’s current government refuses, like all the previous ones, to let go of their revisionist history approach. O’Byrne is a serious reporter ­ it should not have been hard for him to cross north to Armenia and obtain a more accurate account of Urartu and its real history. With this article, O’Byrne might as well be on the Turkish government’s payroll.


Hagop Toroyan
Toronto, Ontario, Canada



Istanbul exhibit focuses on lost empire of Urartu

http://f25.parsimony...sages/12268.htm

Geschrieben von / Written by News am 07. November 2003 12:32:22:

Civilization spanned eastern Turkey, Caucasus, northern Iran
David O’Byrne
Special to The Daily Star

ISTANBUL: It’s a common complaint from even educated Turks, that their country has played home to so many civilizations that it’s all but impossible to have more than a passing knowledge of even the most significant ones.
As a fault though it’s easily forgiven, after all some of these civilizations were themselves lost from the record for
millennia, and still remain almost unknown outside the world of archaeology.
Take for example, the Urartu civilization which controlled much of eastern Turkey, the Caucasus and northern Iran between the 6th and 9th centuries BC.
Despite sharing the roots of its name with biblical mount Ararat which lay with its boundaries, and despite rating a mention themselves in the Old Testament as the kingdom of Urartu, the Urartians were unknown to ancient historians who wrote about their near neighbors and rivals the Assyrians, and to who they ascribed responsibility for the many Urartian buildings still existing.
Indeed it wasn’t until the late 19th century when strange artifacts from a previously unknown culture began appearing on western antiquities markets that western archaeologists realized the existence of Urartu.
Now that lengthy absence from the historical record is being addressed by a fascinating new exhibition jointly organized by the Turkish Ministry of Culture and Yapi Kredi Bank at the Vedat Tor Cultural Center on Istanbul’s main Istiklal Street.
Taking as its title “Urartu: War and Aesthetics” the exhibition aims to put Urartu firmly back on the map, detailing the lost empire’s comparatively short history and attempting to offer an insight into Urartian life and beliefs.
With no references in later historical accounts, what is known of Urartian history comes solely from archaeological sources, largely from the deciphering of the bizarre and beautiful cuneiform script ­ consisting entirely of triangular figures which the Urartians borrowed from their Assyr-
ian neighbors.
The Urartian language itself took several generations to decipher and is now believed to be a distant ancestor of exist-
ing Caucasian languages such as Chechen.
A basalt stele inscribed in Urartu cuneiform is displayed in the exhibition, alongside a translation of its text ­ a report of a battle victory.
The picture that has emerged is one a society that followed a semi-nomadic lifestyle tending flocks of sheep and goats on the high plains of eastern Anatolia, yet confusingly equally at home with the traditions of the settled urban lifestyle.
Aside from constructing huge fortified settlements to withstand attack from the Assyrians to the east, with whom they were in a near constant state of war the Urartians were also exemplary craftsmen developing previously unseen levels of skill both metal working and ceramics.
At the same time they developed a highly sophisticated agricultural tradition ­ cultivating vegetables, fruit orchards and vineyards, and constructing vast irrigation canals some of which are still in use today.
The Urartian capital and main population center ­ which they knew as Tushpa, was the enormous citadel which still stands overlooking the city of Van, on the shores of lake Van in eastern Turkey.
Plans and photographs of Tushpa ­ many of them taken by Turkey’s former Magnum photographer Ara Guler are included in both the main Urartu exhibition, and an ancillary display mounted on panels installed outside on Istiklal street.
But despite their skills
as builders the Urartian’s were nomads with the importance
of their flocks attested to
in both their religious and burial practices.
Unlike their neighbors who were still worshipping multiple gods the Urartians followed a single God who they knew
as “Haldi.”
In his honor they constructed some of the most bizarre monuments to be found anywhere in Turkey ­ blind doorways carved into south facing rock faces, away from their main settlements but apparently on routes used during the movement of their flocks.
A typical Urartian burial chamber is reproduced in the exhibition, with visitors viewing from above the carefully laid out skeleton and burial goods which include the skeleton of a dog ­ believed to be a direct ancestor of the ferocious native sheep dogs still used to guard flocks in eastern Turkey.
The bulk of the exhibition however consists of exhibits of artifacts demonstrating the skills the nomadic Urartians developed in pottery and metalworking both for everyday life and for the arduous business of war.
Domestic wares on show range from simple red clay bowls and jugs tastefully decorated with geometric patterns to finely crafted elaborate items of jewelry.
Most unusual by far is the display of bronze brooches whose main elements are shaped like human arms.
No less impressive are the displays of Urartian weapons armor and horse tackle.
Dependent on horses for both tending their flocks and waging war, the Urartians exercised control over their mounts using beautifully wrought jointed bronze bits and blinkers, and adorned their harnesses with unusual cast bronze bells, bearing an inscription indicating the name of the Urartian king in power when they were cast.
Being in a state of near constant war with their Assyrian neighbors meant that the production of weapons and armor was an important Urartian industry which they were able to develop to the extent that their wrought iron swords and pointed bronze helmets with nose and cheek guards served as the prototypes for those used by subsequent empires including both the Greeks and the Romans.
But however advanced their skills, they were not enough to save the Urartians from conquest by the combined forces of the Scythians. Medes and Babylonians who in 612BC conquered the Urartians arch enemies the Assyrians.
Over the following century they were then able to pick off the Urartian fortified cities weakening the empire to the point of final collapse ­ an event which as with most of Urartian history, went unrecorded and whose exact date is still unknown.


http://www.dailystar.../07_11_03_c.asp

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#2 Arpa

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 08:46 AM

The sad irony is, look who the photographer above is.

See pictures of Urartu and others;

http://arcimaging.or...RexUrartu1.html

#3 DominO

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 10:12 AM

Unlike their neighbors who were still worshipping multiple gods the Urartians followed a single God who they knew as “Haldi.”

Is that true? I have read they had many gods and have seen statues of those gods... had they really one god?

#4 CrystalHye

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 03:24 PM

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!

WOW!!!, ANOTHER ATTEMPT BY TURKS TO REWRITE HISTORY THEY WERE NOT PART OF. AHAHAHA!!!! MAN!! YOU GUYS CANNOT IMAGINE HOW HARD AM I LAUGHING.

STUPID TURKS!!!! ANY INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD KNOW HOW TO FIND THE REAL STORY ABOUT URARTANS. WHAT A BUNCH OF JOCKEYS!!!!

#5 Arpa

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 04:10 PM

And while we're at it let us also watch the Rape of Ani.
Note the blatant and impuned vandalism.

http://www.virtualan...y3/history3.htm

#6 Arpa

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Dec 13 2003, 04:12 PM)
Unlike their neighbors who were still worshipping multiple gods the Urartians followed a single God who they knew as “Haldi.”

Is that true? I have read they had many gods and have seen statues of those gods... had they really one god?

Pardon me for posting this twice in one day.

http://www.angelfire...Azgaser/AR.html

Domino, read the description of Haik again and this time read it to the end until where Haldi/Hyek is mentioned.
As a amtter of fact, contrary to the prevailing myth monotheism is not that new and certainly not post Chritianity. Egyptians are credited as the first monotheists. Yes, they did have many gods, just like the Armenians but they always had a supreme god and lesser ones. It is no different in Christianity when we have Father God, A Son God, a Mother God and a host of lesser (saints, each which their particular specialty like wind, water, fire etc.) gods.

#7 Twilight Bark

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Posted 15 December 2003 - 02:34 PM

With a hasty reading, I could not find any blatant misstatements outside of the mainstream view, other than the "direct ancestors of Chechens" bit. I don't think they are claiming the Urartu to be Turkish; they are just not acknowledging that they formed a big part of Armenian ancestry and culture. But then, even plainly Armenian, more recent things are left, ahem, unmentioned in Turkey. It would be a bit much to expect them to mention "the A word" on their own. I for one will be grateful enough if Turkey stops flooding archaelogically important areas under dubious "hydroelectric projects". I also hope that any "uncomfortable" archaeological finds that might support the connection of the Urartian and Armenian cultures are merely kept in a secret room somewhere rather than destroyed. Expecting any more than that at the moment would be unreasonable.

#8 Anonymouse

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Posted 19 December 2003 - 04:10 PM

This is the problem of all modern nation states that try to lay claims to land and political boundaries. They essentially project themselves into the distant past and create for them a history. Everyone is guilty of this, not just the Turkish government.

#9 COSSACK1

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Anonymouse @ Dec 19 2003, 04:10 PM)
This is the problem of all modern nation states that try to lay claims to land and political boundaries. They essentially project themselves into the distant past and create for them a history. Everyone is guilty of this, not just the Turkish government.

some nations not all....more so the Turks. in times of Urartians the Turks of Turkey did not exist. they were bunch of tribes living in caves and ground holes somewhere in Asia.

this is Pan-Turkism in action.......laughable. Actually this is good, it only shows their stupidity and ignorance to the rest of the world. soon they will claim to have given the world the first civilization and then we can laugh some more.

one thing they invented for sure is GREASE WRESTLING.......i can't think of anything else.

----> ----> ---->

#10 hagopn

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 06:16 AM

QUOTE (Anonymouse @ Dec 19 2003, 10:10 PM)
This is the problem of all modern nation states that try to lay claims to land and political boundaries. They essentially project themselves into the distant past and create for them a history. Everyone is guilty of this, not just the Turkish government.

"Everyone is guilty of this."

This is pure nonsense. Disprove that precise descriptions of Armenian boundaries by 12th century non-politically oriented scientific minds, and then I will agree with you. Arpa has posted a lengthy post on Shirakatsi and his mapping of Armenia, "Metz Hayk" and so on, and you cannot get more precise than that. And, incidently the concept of "modern nation-state" in yrou sole adopted and "enlightenment" defitinion was all but non-existent. Shirakatsi had absolutely no reason to make false claims. Thos were the boundaries of Armenian speaking populations and states, whatever their political structure.

#11 gurgen

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (COSSACK1 @ Dec 27 2003, 12:08 PM)
some nations not all....more so the Turks. in times of Urartians the Turks of Turkey did not exist. they were bunch of tribes living in caves and ground holes somewhere in Asia.

this is Pan-Turkism in action.......laughable. Actually this is good, it only shows their stupidity and ignorance to the rest of the world. soon they will claim to have given the world the first civilization and then we can laugh some more.

one thing they invented for sure is GREASE WRESTLING.......i can't think of anything else.

----> ----> ---->

I am just waiting for them to resurrect the glory of the empire of Turan.
They have such dreams biggrin.gif

#12 Gino

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (CrystalHye @ Dec 13 2003, 03:24 PM)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!LOL!!!LOL!!!

WOW!!!, ANOTHER ATTEMPT BY TURKS TO REWRITE HISTORY THEY WERE NOT PART OF. AHAHAHA!!!! MAN!! YOU GUYS CANNOT IMAGINE HOW HARD AM I LAUGHING.

STUPID TURKS!!!! ANY INTELLIGENT PERSON WOULD KNOW HOW TO FIND THE REAL STORY ABOUT URARTANS. WHAT A BUNCH OF JOCKEYS!!!!

I think you shouldn't have react with such anxiety. After all it isn't Turks' fault if some ignorant historian pops up and starts proposing nonsense. wink.gif

Edited by Gino, 14 January 2004 - 05:34 PM.


#13 Sasun

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 11:54 AM

I removed some jokes... you know what I mean wink.gif

#14 Sarduri

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 12:52 PM

the urartus worshiped the war god haldi, after whom hayastan was named after.

#15 Hellektor

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE(gurgen @ Jan 11 2004, 12:36 PM) View Post
I am just waiting for them to resurrect the glory of the empire of Turan.
They have such dreams biggrin.gif

There's no wonder they claim Urartu as UralTurk. In fact, they claim the Armenians came (one wonders where from!) and destroyed the Urartian civilization, who were Turks of course, therefore, the Armenian Genocide, where the Turks avenged the "extermination" of "their" ancestors, is justified.

They claim every existing and imaginary civilization includind but not only Sumerians, Babylonians, Etruscans, Greeks, Persians, Aratta, Urartians, Elamites, Hitites, Hurries, Armenians, Medes, Kurds, Aghvank, Ionians, Phrygians, Scythians, Manni, Martians, Saturnans, Jupiterians, Out of Milkywayans, Parallel Universians, Out of this Universians, Pre Big Bangians, Residents of the Black Holes, etc., etc., etc.

Their claim of Turan is also baseless. I paste from my megafile:

The Turanian Fallacy


In Iranian mythology, Fereidun has three sons: Iraj (Aria), Tur and Salm (Sayrima). Salm received Rum (Rome, the West). Tur received the East. Iraj received Iran.
It is supposed that Iranians are descendants of Iraj, Turanians come from Tur and the Sarmatians (Ossetians, Alans) are from Salm. All these peoples are of Iranian origin.

The Turanians were the Iranian peoples of the north east of Iran, who were less developed, had a nomadic way of life unlike the civilized Iranians and had a different religion.
The Iranians and the Turanians were always engaged in war, pictured beautifully in Ferdowsi's Shahnameh.

Of course, by the conquest of Central Asia by the savage ancestors of the Turks in the sixth century A.D., the Tu Kiu, the demography of the area changed in favor of the Turks.

Abusing the similarity between Turk and Turan, the Turks have also usurped the word Turanian (just with the rest of the universe) and have undeservedly attributed it to themselves.

The problem is not because they are savage barbarians with civilization envy; they can't care less, they only want to justify their illegal, undeserved and illegitimate presence on other peoples' territory. But history tells us they only set hoof this side of the Caspian after the 11th century, no matter how heavily they lie.




Turkish reverence for Urartian heritage...




Reconstruction of Anania Shirakatsi's Ashkharhatsouits


#16 Arpa

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 07:36 AM

EXPERTS SAY URARTIANS HAD NO DIRECT PRESENCE IN NORTHEASTERN IRAN

Mehr News Agency, Iran
Dec 6 2006

TEHRAN, Dec. 6 (MNA) -- A team of Iranian and Italian archaeologists
which recently studied 27 ancient sites east of Lake Urmia said that
despite the previous theory, the Urartians never had a direct presence
in the region, the Persian service of CHN reported on Tuesday.

The team, led jointly by Iranian archaeologist Hamid Khatib-Shahidi
and Italian archaeologist Rafael Bichone, began the surveys about
three weeks ago to demarcate the boundaries of the Urartian state
with Media and Mannai in the region.

Before the studies, many archaeologists regarded the region as the
center of Urartu and consigned it to the map of the Uratian state.

"An appropriate environment, an abundance of water, and fertile land
encouraged settlement and the establishment of local states in the
region during the Iron Age," Khatib-Shahidi said.

"It is certain that the Urartians had indirect relations with the
people of the region. Sometimes they had clashes and sometimes allied
(with each other). But the Urartians never had a direct presence or
made fortifications in the Tabriz (region) and the Maragheh plains,
i.e. north and south of Mt. Sahand," he added.

The Iron Age castles near Mt. Sahand have mostly been built of stone
without the use of mortar, he explained.

The ancient kingdom of Urartu, the biblical Ararat, flowered in the
area south of the Caucasus from the ninth century to the seventh
century BC.

Urartu, centered in the mountainous region around Lake Van, existed
from about 1000 BC, or earlier, until 585 BC, and stretched from
northern Mesopotamia through the southern Caucasus, including parts
of present-day Armenia up to Lake Sevan.

"The local governments of the region (east of Lake Urmia) were
tributary states of the Urartian state before the Medes came to
power. The extant texts from the Assyrians, particularly Sargon II,
refer to this fact," Khatib-Shahidi noted.

The team has also identified remnants of some fortifications believed
to date back to the Chalcolithic period (7000?-3500? BC).

"The inhabitants of the period built their castles on heights, but
we have not yet been able to determine why they chose to settle on
the heights rather than the plains," Khatib-Shahidi said.

If it is proven that the remnants definitely belong to the Chalcolithic
period, the fortifications will surely be among the oldest and last
remaining very ancient defensive structures in the Middle East,
he explained.

The team has also discovered shards dating back to the Achaemenid era.

#17 Zartonk

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 11:31 AM

Doesn't this place the alleged site of the Musasir temple at Rabat tepe outside Urartu's boundaries?

#18 Error 404

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 05:13 PM

I think the pic with vandalizm should see zurderer (turkish member of this forum ) He was telling me that they are not destroying our heritage, they just don't have money to take care of them.

#19 irlandahay

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 05:44 PM

QUOTE(COSSACK1 @ Dec 27 2003, 01:08 PM) View Post
some nations not all....more so the Turks. in times of Urartians the Turks of Turkey did not exist. they were bunch of tribes living in caves and ground holes somewhere in Asia.

this is Pan-Turkism in action.......laughable. Actually this is good, it only shows their stupidity and ignorance to the rest of the world. soon they will claim to have given the world the first civilization and then we can laugh some more.

one thing they invented for sure is GREASE WRESTLING.......i can't think of anything else.

----> ----> ---->


i remember on another forum, this turk (hes the typical turk, does not recognise genocide "but mounrs our dead", then praises atturk) showed me an article. it was from turkishdaily news. it was an article written by the ambassador of turkey to mexico. he says that he has done research and has proven that mexicans are direct descendants of the turkish nation. yes, he said that, on an official turkish document. then, they have black and white pictures of exican and turkish ancient civilisation, naturally we are supposed to understand that they are one and the same.

like...wtf?!?!

#20 irlandahay

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 05:47 PM

QUOTE(Hellektor @ Aug 29 2006, 05:32 PM) View Post
They claim every existing and imaginary civilization includind but not only Sumerians, Babylonians, Etruscans, Greeks, Persians, Aratta, Urartians, Elamites, Hitites, Hurries, Armenians, Medes, Kurds, Aghvank, Ionians, Phrygians, Scythians, Manni, Martians, Saturnans, Jupiterians, Out of Milkywayans, Parallel Universians, Out of this Universians, Pre Big Bangians, Residents of the Black Holes, etc., etc., etc.


you forgot huns and mexicans

HAHAHAHAHA




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