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The Armenian Church And Human Sexuality


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#21 ED

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:40 AM

QUOTE (Sip @ Nov 4 2005, 05:14 AM)
It wasn't really from day 1. I'd say this modern concept of "love" between man and woman is not really that old ... maybe from the Renaisance days? You don't see too many squeeshy lovey dovey poetic stuff about "love love love" from much before that ... though I am certainly no expert on the subject.



Sip, I think concept of modern love is originated back at 11th century when troubadours came into picture and were considered sinners by the church, but the revolution they started gave rise to many masterpieces and had a positive and beautiful effect in renaissance period.

#22 Takoush

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE (Edward @ Nov 4 2005, 11:40 AM)
Sip, I think concept of modern love is originated back at 11th century when troubadours came into picture and were considered sinners by the church, but the revolution they started gave rise to many masterpieces and had a positive and beautiful effect in renaissance period.

Yeah, I remember this from my History class on Western Civilization and also from my Music Appreciation class. You've remimded me this Ed. Thanks. smile.gif

#23 Sip

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 03:13 PM

Ok first off, please direct all comments about my upside down-ness to Mosjan jan. He's the one that has made me "dakn-u-vra" sad.gif

Second of all, Arpa, how could I forget the nick-name sip-the-dip biggrin.gif

Third of all, Armenia exporting goat cheese to US? I can just picture the faces of my coworkers when I hand them some Armenian chese with the Armenian wine (nuri gini) they already get once a year!!!!

My mom was in Jones market in LA a couple of weeks ago ... called me and asked me which wine I wanted .. she said they had six of this one kind and two of the other. Of course I told her to get them all biggrin.gif

And fourth of all, thanks for the info Ed.

And fifth of all, as long as the likes of Azat, Domino, and Accelerated are roaming around on this board, I don't have a chance with the available young ladies tongue.gif

#24 ExtraHye

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 03:30 PM

QUOTE (Sip @ Nov 4 2005, 01:13 PM)
And fifth of all, as long as the likes of Azat, Domino, and Accelerated are roaming around on this board, I don't have a chance with the available young ladies tongue.gif

lol.gif

This one was tooooooooo easy, but I'll be nice. ph34r.gif

tongue.gif

#25 MosJan

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 03:32 PM

iys paragayin mej al yes meghavor yella ???

#26 Anahit

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 07:33 AM

QUOTE (Sasun @ Nov 3 2005, 10:08 AM)
Yeah, everyone is equal in front of God's Law -not man made temporary and changeble laws. Don't blame God, you have been told not to do so.


tongue.gif biggrin.gif Sasun, u gave me such a big smile!!!! "God's Law" u say????? Maybe u mean Natural Law or the Law of Nature (as u wish), but God, if any, has only COMMANDS!!!! at least that's what they write in THE book smile.gif The Law i wrote, is the law that applies to the societies (each has differnet ones). every member of that society IS equal and must benefit from the law as well as be protected by it!

QUOTE
Those who act against God's laws suffer the consequencies.

sorry, but that is the wrongest thing i have ever read in a very long time! i can't disagree more. thanks to all the people that went against the God's commands and challanged EVERYTHING He... should i write "said??" hm... ok, "said", if u believe in what they write in Bible. If noone ever acted against or was always afraid to question Him, we would have still be stuck without knowledge about our universe, technology, our own-self etc. Thanks to all that heros, who, yes indeed, DID suffer "the consequencies" of telling the truth, opening our eyes, calling things their real names... in short acting against what was never to be questioned! i think i owe lots of what i know and who i am to that very brave men and wemen!

QUOTE
Don't blame God, you have been told not to do so.

well, the principle of my life:"want to blame someone, blame yourself!" besides, how can u blame someone else when you are the one taking the decisions??? how can anyone be so...should i say naive or stupid to blame God????? i never read THE book or pray, like the believers smile.gif ,when i have any problems, i ALWAYS SOLVE THEM RIGHT AWAY!
AND.... I NEVER DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO!!! smile.gif "ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD AND BE DIFFERENT, NEVER DO THINGS LIKE OTHERS HAVE DONE" the secret of my success smile.gif and i think i am gonna add "never do what others have always been told to do" smile.gif

#27 Anahit

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 08:00 AM

QUOTE (Anahid Takouhi @ Nov 3 2005, 08:58 PM)
Sasun:

You are quite right. That's exactly what the Bible says. That sex is for reproduction only. You are on target.

How do you figure that God created homosexuals? How do you know that the devil isn't the one to be part of that?

Why do people place all the ill doings of people as God's doings and not the devil's?

IF SEX WAS ONLY FOR REPRODUCTION, THEN WHY DID GOD PUT SUCH BIG PLEASURE ON THE PROCESS????? ever thought of it???

homosexuals exicted far before the bible and the Jesus, and as the ever-mighty God is the creator of the world and everything on it, even around it, above it etc, brings us to the conclusion, that, YES HE CREATED HOMOSEXUALS TOO! bible is JUST A BOOK WRITTEN BY PEOPLE! and nowdays all we get is just the interpretation of that book, which, in its own case, is an interpretation of events written/created by the writers.
The God says He is the ever-mighty, can do all, everything is in his hands, so, he should take care of the devil and protet the creatures He has created, no? wink.gif even us, the simple "mahkanacuners" take the responsibilities of what we make/create, so God should do as well, with all his power... i mean, it just goes without saying. of course, He doesn't HAVE to do anything if He doesn't want to, afterall it's a free world, we live in NOW wink.gif

#28 Takoush

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 12:38 PM

QUOTE
the bible is JUST A BOOK WRITTEN BY PEOPLE!

Anahit:

The Bible is not just a book written by people. The Bible was written by philosopers, yes; but those philosopers were inspired by God. They were inspired by the almighty when they wrote the Book. Therefore, God's words and God's rules are in there all over the Bible; and especially the Second Testament, which is Jesus' life.

I see you are not a believer of God or Jesus; I am. When you read it though; you must read it with belief, otherwise it will be like any other book for you. The Bible is not like any other book for me; but it is God's words and God's message to men and to us.

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 07 November 2005 - 06:45 PM.


#29 kakachik77

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE (Anahid Takouhi @ Nov 7 2005, 01:38 PM)
Anahit:

The Bible is not just a book written by people. The Bible was written by philosopers, yes; but those philosopers were inspired by God. They were inspired by the almighty when they wrote the Book. Therefore, God's words and God's rules are in there all over the Bible; and especially the Second Testament, which is Jesus' life.

I see you are not a believer of God or Jesus; I am. When you read it though; you must read it with belief, otherwise it will be like any other book for you. The Bible is not like any other book for me; but it is God's words and God's message to men and to us.


this entry had a lot of mistakes and assumptions, consider revising.

#30 Takoush

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE (kakachik77 @ Nov 7 2005, 08:18 PM)
this entry had a lot of mistakes and assumptions, consider revising.

What do you mean assumptions????? It is not assumptions. Your entry is full of assumptions.

The philosophers who wrote the Bible were certainly inspired by Him....and that's not an assumption.

#31 skhara

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 10:09 PM

The "Old Testament" should be called by its proper name -- and that is Torah.

Well here is what I learned from my recent readings:

The Torah is a collection of plagarisms taken mostly from Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, etc., stories, myths, religions, edicts (Code of Hamurabi --> "Ten commandments").

The creator of modern day Christianity is a man called Saul of Tarsus, aka Paul. Paul was a pharisee. He linked the Torah (Old Testament) to the life of Jesus of Nazareth (New Testament). He's agenda may very well had been to convert Jews to Christianity so he tried to pass off Jesus of Nazareth as the messiah that the Jews were waiting for. But it didn't make sense. The Jews wait for an earthly king who will destroy all enemies of the Jews and give them a materialistic kingdom, not a spiritual one.

The morals and teachings of the two writings are entirely alien to one another. The Christian god is a sinless spirit who does not play with men like chess pieces. The Jewish desert diety --Yahweh-- is an ethnocentric, homocidal maniac who sits on a mountain.

#32 Anahit

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 09:26 AM

Anahid Takouhi,

I totally agree with what Kakachik77 wrote about your post, and want to write again, that:
1st of all, philosophers ARE people (mardik).
2nd, if the writers of Bible were philosophers, as u assume, I believe that they would have done much better work than that smile.gif
3rd, EVERYONE THAT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE BOOK, WAS JUST A NORMAL PERSON, LIKE ME AND U, THUS, THE BIBLE WAS NOT WRITTEN BY GOD, NOT EVEN BY ANGELS smile.gif IT WAS WRITTEN BY PEOPLE! And I want to add: IT WAS WRITTEN TO CONTROL PEOPLE’S MINDS, MAKE THEM SLAVES!
4th,U WROTE: “The Bible is not like any other book for me; but it is God's words and God's message to men and to us”. U are right here: IT IS A SPECIAL BOOK FOR U! but it is still just a book! Like ARMENIA is not “just a country” FOR US, but it IS A COUNTRY like other countries in the world! We can’t claim it be a special land for everyone on the earth, have no right either to force others to like it, praise it etc.

Anyway, I am not gonna argue with u about it, cause u are a strong believer of the book and Jesus, I am not. 道不同,不相为谋!(people with essentially different principles/ideas/paths shouldn’t advise each other). It’s like talking about democracy when one believes in equality of people, and the other one doesn’t believe at all: that’d lead to nowhere.


p.s. just for the record, I haven’t completely made up my mind about the God, to tell the truth smile.gif just can’t take the book and the idea of praising Jesus like the God, having him the “door” to the heaven bla bla bla etc.

#33 Eloren

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 09:51 AM

Faith has nothing to do with books.

Funny thing by the way.. In the Bible, Old testament, it is written that men should not praise statues, or objects or anything else than God himslef.. But how come people almost praise a book, which is an object, written by philosophers ?

I am christian, i believe in "God" (even if i have a different vision). But for me, the Bible is just a book, the Cross is just an object.. I have my faith, I have my rule of conduct which i think is "good and honest". I obey the 10 comandmants which are also a healthy base for any good society.
That's about it. What is written in the Bible is not THE Truth. It's just some philosophers point of view that were "inspired" by Jesus's sayings.

I read the book, and i myself got inspired by what is written to create my own rule of conduct. I guess that's how it should be done and not follow the rules strictly and give birth to harsh and stupid rules like in islamic countries that follow word by word the Coran..

#34 kakachik77

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 10:48 AM

QUOTE (kakachik77 @ Nov 7 2005, 08:18 PM)
this entry had a lot of mistakes and assumptions, consider revising.


people who wrote and collected the stories in the bible are called Apostles and NEVER philosophers. Therefore we belonged to the Armenian Apostolic Church and not Philosophic Church. Here are some definitions from Catholic Encyclopedia

The name Apostle denotes principally one of the twelve disciples who, on a solemn occasion, were called by Christ to a special mission. In the Gospels, however, those disciples are often designated by the expressions of mathetai (the disciples) or dodeka (the Twelve) and, after the treason and death of Judas, even of hendeka (the Eleven). In the Synoptics the name Apostle occurs but seldom with this meaning; only once in Matthew and Mark. But in other books of the New Testament, chiefly in the Epistles of St. Paul and in the Acts, this use of the word is current. Saul of Tarsus, being miraculously converted, and called to preach the Gospel to the heathens, claimed with much insistency this title and its rights.
In the Epistle to the Hebrews (iii, 1) the name is applied even to Christ, in the original meaning of a delegate sent from God to preach revealed truth to the world.
The word Apostle has also in the New Testament a larger meaning, and denotes some inferior disciples who, under the direction of the Apostles, preached the Gospel, or contributed to its diffusion; thus Barnabas (Acts 14:4, 14), probably Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), Epaphroditus (Phil., ii, 25), two unknown Christians who were delegated for the collection in Corinth (2 Corinthians 7:23). We know not why the honourable name of Apostle is not given to such illustrious missionaries as Timothy, Titus, and others who would equally merit it.


it's one things to be religious but another to study religion, in this day and age try being the second one, but this is my humble opinion. Now the same way, try to find the exact definition of what a philosopher is and see the difference.

Edited by kakachik77, 08 November 2005 - 11:12 AM.


#35 Takoush

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 05:58 PM

QUOTE (kakachik77 @ Nov 8 2005, 11:48 AM)
people who wrote and collected the stories in the bible are called Apostles and NEVER philosophers. Therefore we belonged to the Armenian Apostolic Church and not Philosophic Church. Here are some definitions from Catholic Encyclopedia

The name Apostle denotes principally one of the twelve disciples who, on a solemn occasion, were called by Christ to a special mission. In the Gospels, however, those disciples are often designated by the expressions of mathetai (the disciples) or dodeka (the Twelve) and, after the treason and death of Judas, even of hendeka (the Eleven). In the Synoptics the name Apostle occurs but seldom with this meaning; only once in Matthew and Mark. But in other books of the New Testament, chiefly in the Epistles of St. Paul and in the Acts, this use of the word is current. Saul of Tarsus, being miraculously converted, and called to preach the Gospel to the heathens, claimed with much insistency this title and its rights.
In the Epistle to the Hebrews (iii, 1) the name is applied even to Christ, in the original meaning of a delegate sent from God to preach revealed truth to the world.
The word Apostle has also in the New Testament a larger meaning, and denotes some inferior disciples who, under the direction of the Apostles, preached the Gospel, or contributed to its diffusion; thus Barnabas (Acts 14:4, 14), probably Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), Epaphroditus (Phil., ii, 25), two unknown Christians who were delegated for the collection in Corinth (2 Corinthians 7:23). We know not why the honourable name of Apostle is not given to such illustrious missionaries as Timothy, Titus, and others who would equally merit it.

it's one things to be religious but another to study religion, in this day and age try being the second one, but this is my humble opinion. Now the same way, try to find the exact definition of what a philosopher is and see the difference.


Kakachik77

You are telling me or suggesting to me to study religion even more so than being religious. First of all by only studying religion is not the same as being religious, although they are both necessary in the long run and to become even more religious you need to study the Bible, this is true. Though, you can study all you want, but you would not by choosing to be religious; because you don't have belief in you. I may not have studied the bible from A-Z, but did you? Maybe you did, if so, good. By opening up a Chatholic Encyclopedia and copying from it does that make you so literate on the subject? Although I have read only a few parts of the Bible and understood the philosophy of it as well as the messages that was there for me; but I didn't read the whole Bible yet and I can't even start now that I am extremely busy with my school and my daughter's schooling. It's imatereal to me at this point, whether you are a believer or not, I am and whenever I was in need of an answer in my life I opened up the exact verse in the Bible that I needed to sought help from. Funny heh? No, it wasn't funny, I believe in it and He always helped me to sought the messages that was beneficial to me at the right time.

Anahit, the Bible is just a book for you in likeness of other books, but it isn't. God's messages are in there. That's where you are wrong Anahit and I totally disagree with you. THE BIBLE IS NOT JUST A BOOK. THE BIBLE IS OUR MESSAGE FROM GOD. Again, He Himself didn't come down from heaven and wrote it, nor the angels wrote it, I never said that. If you go back to this thread and reread, you will see that what I said was that 'the philosopers were inspired by God in writing the Bible'.

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 08 November 2005 - 06:02 PM.


#36 Takoush

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 07:09 PM

The Bible, as the inspired recorded of revelation, contains the word of God; that is, it contains those revealed truths which the Holy Ghost wishes to be transmitted in writing. However, all revealed truths are not contained in the Bible; neither is every truth in the Bible revealed, if by revelation is meant the manifestation of hidden truths which could not other be known. Much of the Scripture came to its writers through the channels of ordinary knowledge, but its sacred character and Divine authority are not limited to those parts which contain revelation strictly so termed. The Bible not only containes the word of God; it is the word of God. The primary author is the Holy Ghost, or, as it is commonly expressed, the human authors wrote under the influence of Divine inspiration. It was declared by the Vatican Council (Sess. III, c. ii) that the sacred and canonical character of Scripture would not be sufficiently explained by saying that the books were composed by human diligence and then approved by the Church, or that they contained revelation without error. They are sacred and canonical "because, having been written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that have God for their author, and as such have been handed down to the Church". The inerrancy of the Bible follows as a consequence of this Divine authorship. Wherever the sacred writer makes a statement as his own, that statement is the word of God and infallibly true, whatever be the subject-matter of the statement.


This was also taken by the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Bible

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 08 November 2005 - 07:11 PM.


#37 Eloren

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 11:13 PM

Quoting books, in my opinion, does not lead us anywhere. Still written by humans, etc..

Religion has nothing to do with books, crosses, churches, holy water etc... Religion is between only you and God. As they say, on "Judgment Day".. You will no have to pass an exam about your knowledge of the Bible, you will not have to expose the collection of Holy objects you have or count the number of times you went to church.. It's just about your faith.

In fact, I could even say that true religion is something personal. And the rest was created by men to control the population with fear and guilt.

#38 Sip

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 11:35 PM

I can't wait for the Holy Ghost to inspire a Holy Computer ... You would be able to recognize it with one of these logos:



#39 vava

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 11:51 PM

lol.gif

#40 Takoush

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 12:12 AM

QUOTE (Sip @ Nov 9 2005, 12:35 AM)
I can't wait for the Holy Ghost to inspire a Holy Computer ... You would be able to recognize it with one of these logos:

Sip:

I must say you are very funny. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 09 November 2005 - 12:15 AM.





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