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William Saroyan's Famous Quote


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#1 Էլիա

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 01:40 AM

Նոյնիսկ հաւանաբար է որ արդէն հայերէնի թարգմանուած է ու հեշտօրէն գտնուած կրնայ ըլլալ համացանցին մէջ, առանձինս թարգմանեցի, գլխաւորապէս հաճոյք առնելու եւ երկրորդական պատճառը՝ ժամանակ չպարպելու թարգմանութեան փնտռելու համար: Վայելեցէ՛ք:

QUOTE
"I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, literature is unread, music is unheard, and prayers are no more answered. Go ahead, destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them into the desert without bread or water. Burn their homes and churches. Then see if they will not laugh, sing and pray again. For when two of them meet anywhere in the world, see if they will not create a New Armenia."

---William Saroyan (translated from English to Armenian by me)

«Տեսնեմ որեւէ աշխարհի զօրութիւն մը ջջնէ այս ազգը, այս պզտիկ խումբը՝ անկարեւոր անձերէ կազմուած, որուն բոլոր պատերազմերուն մէջ կռուած ենք ու ձախորդ եղած ենք, որուն շէնքերը բզքտուած դարձած են, գրականութիւնը անկարդացած է, ու աղօթքները այլ պատասխանուած չեն: Ըրէ՛, ջնջէ՛ Հայաստանը: Նայի՛ր եթէ կրնաս ընել: Իրենց ղրկէ՛ անապատին առանց հացով ու ջուրով: Իրենց տուները ու եկեղեցիները այրէ՛: Վերջը նայի՛ր եթէ նորէն չեն խնդար, չեն երգեր, ու չեն աղօթեր : Որովհետեւ երբ իրենցմէ երկու անձեր կը հանդիպին որեւէ տեղ աշխարհին մէջ, նայեցէ՛ք եթէ Նոր Հայաստան մը չեն շիներ:»

---Վիլեամ Սարոյան (անգլերէնէ հայերէն թարգմանող՝ ես)

Edited by Էլիա, 15 March 2008 - 01:41 AM.

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#2 Aratta-Kingdom

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 02:44 AM

smile.gif let's hope Nairi is not gonna read that

#3 Yervant1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 09:33 AM

Very good effort Elia Jan. smile.gif

#4 Էլիա

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE (Aratta-Kingdom @ Mar 15 2008, 01:44 AM)
smile.gif let's hope Nairi is not gonna read that

Why not? huh.gif

#5 Aratta-Kingdom

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 12:24 AM

QUOTE (Էլիա @ Mar 15 2008, 06:20 PM)
Why not? huh.gif


eh Elia jan, hin verqer@ ari chbacenq quyrs.
mersi shat quoti hamar.

#6 Էլիա

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 11:31 AM

QUOTE (Aratta-Kingdom @ Mar 15 2008, 11:24 PM)
eh Elia jan, hin verqer@ ari chbacenq quyrs.
mersi shat quoti hamar.

Բան մը չէ, բայց ես քոյր չեմ, եղբայր եմ: tongue.gif

#7 Arpa

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 01:13 PM

Dear Էլիա Elia/Եղիայ, we love you , we love your passion ԿԻՐՔ as well.
We also share your passion about your fellow Fresnian Old Billy .
Could someone please tell us what Saroyan meant and the VALUE by that outburst, a cliché that is only second to that other farting by Hitler.
I only wish that both Old Billy and Hitler were here to tell us what thy meant and how much thy knew about our Saga.
Did Saroyan know how Many times our neighbors have DARED to wipe us off the map, and as things go , they may succeed. What does he really mean? Have we not already been wiped off the map? Try an find Armenia on the world map. You may need a microscope.
Yeah! Yeah! We all shoot our mouths after a couple glasses of OGHI.
Reminds me of the anecdote, where this drunken Irish (St. Patrick’s day was a few days ago), was making too much noise at the pub., while all along there was this motion at his breast pocket. The barkeep asked him to keep it down. The drunken Irish replied - “Do you want a punch across your mouth”? At which time that motion in the breast pocket, a mouse raised its whiskers, rolled them and said “Yeah! That goes to your cat too”!!
Speaking of whiskers. When did Saroyan face the ottoman guns and canons?
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


#8 nairi

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Mar 19 2008, 08:13 PM)
Could someone please tell us what Saroyan meant and the VALUE by that outburst, a cliché that is only second to that other farting by Hitler.


Saroyan never said those words. Some drunk Armenian who thought he was a better writer than Saroyan did. Aratta was right: I shouldn't have read this topic. Elia, search the forum for an answer.


#9 Nané

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 05:34 PM

Here's a wonderful "quote" from Saroyan.

In The Time of Your Life

In the time of your life, live—so that in that good time there shall be no ugliness or death for yourself or for any life your life touches. Seek goodness everywhere, and when it is found, bring it out of its hiding place and let it be free and unashamed.

Place in matter and in flesh the least of the values, for these are the things that hold death and must pass away. Discover in all things that which shines and is beyond corruption. Encourage virtue in whatever heart it may have been driven into secrecy and sorrow by the shame and terror of the world. Ignore the obvious, for it is unworthy of the clear eye and the kindly heart.

Be the inferior of no man, or of any men be superior. Remember that every man is a variation of yourself. No man's guilt is not yours, nor is any man's innocence a thing apart. Despise evil and ungodliness, but not men of ungodliness or evil. These, understand. Have no shame in being kindly and gentle but if the time comes in the time of your life to kill, kill and have no regret.

In the time of your life, live—so that in that wondrous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it.


William Saroyan

Edited by Nané, 06 October 2009 - 05:35 PM.


#10 NoComment

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:35 AM

http://www.armenweb..../html/008/5.htm


#11 Louise

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:27 AM

QUOTE (NoComment @ Oct 9 2009, 11:35 AM)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But "In the time of your life " is not the same quotation translated in armenweb.

Thank you Nane

#12 Louise

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:45 AM

QUOTE (Louise @ Oct 14 2009, 11:27 AM)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But "In the time of your life " is not the same quotation translated in armenweb.

Thank you Nane

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recognize that "In the time of your life" is not as good as the famous "I'd like to see..." that I had tranlated too in French.
But the writers do not always write masterpieces. Nor Plays.

I read the book in armenian "Tebi Bitlis Saroyan hed", It was a wondeful trip, but he never talk about what happened in 1915-16.
He was very happy indeed to meet all those people, who were very nice, and to see the place where his parents had lived.

#13 Nané

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE (Louise @ Oct 15 2009, 08:45 AM)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recognize that "In the time of your life" is not as good as the famous "I'd like to see..." that I had tranlated too in French.


I disagree. I find the "in the time of your life" quote more powerful because it relates to all of humanity.

Edited by Nané, 15 October 2009 - 02:09 PM.


#14 Louise

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 02:18 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Mar 19 2008, 02:13 PM)
Dear Էլիա Elia/Եղիայ, we love you , we love your passion ԿԻՐՔ as well.
We also share your passion about your fellow Fresnian Old Billy .
Could someone please tell us what Saroyan meant and the VALUE by that outburst, a cliché that is only second to that other farting by Hitler.
I only wish that both Old Billy and Hitler were here to tell us what thy meant and how much thy knew about our Saga.
Did Saroyan know how Many times our neighbors have DARED to wipe us off the map, and as things go , they may succeed. What does he really mean? Have we not already been wiped off the map? Try an find Armenia on the world map. You may need a microscope.
Yeah! Yeah! We all shoot our mouths after a couple glasses of OGHI.
Reminds me of the anecdote, where this drunken Irish (St. Patrick’s day was a few days ago), was making too much noise at the pub., while all along there was this motion at his breast pocket. The barkeep asked him to keep it down. The drunken Irish replied - “Do you want a punch across your mouth”? At which time that motion in the breast pocket, a mouse raised its whiskers, rolled them and said “Yeah! That goes to your cat too”!!
Speaking of whiskers. When did Saroyan face the ottoman guns and canons?
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dear Arpa, you said "that other farting by Hitler". I can affirm that the sentance of Hitler is not a joke. It has been read during the trial of Hermann Goering, there were many people,
journalists, translaters, and typewriters. Goering knew english, and he corrected when a translation is not right. That was on october 16, 1946. You can read all the details in Google.
Here is what Hitler said to his officers on august 22, 1939. during his speech he said:

[Citation de Hitler en allemand: discours du 22 /8/1939
Extrait:]
"Wer redet heute noch von der Vernichtung der Armenier"

(inhalt der Rede an die Oberbefehlshaber und Komm. Generale.
Obersalzberg 22.8.39)
His words have been certified, I have all the certificates.


#15 Arpa

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 04:12 PM

Dear Louise et al. I am not questioning the veracity of hitler's vomitus.I have to take it at face value and believe it since I don't know any better. Neither am I pooh-poohing Saroyan's outburst.
My question is- How have these cliches and slogans benefited us?
As to hitler v Armenians, did he really know who and what Amenias are? See the book "Ëichmann's Trial", where he (Eichmann) tells about the time when hitler and his monkeys we prparing a list of nations and people, to see who deserved to live and who not. When they came to Armenians he asked- "Who and what is an Armenian, are they some kind of gypsies"?
Now let's put the two together and see if hitler really knew Armenian history?
The above quote was extensively used when we were still in a dream world trying in vain to win the holocaust survivors' sympathy and cooperation.
A book that was smuggled from London and I read in secret.
http://en.wikipedia..../Adolf_Eichmann

Edited by Arpa, 16 October 2009 - 07:11 PM.


#16 Arpa

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

At the risk of opening some festering old wounds.
No, no we are not talking about someones auntie christie , neither are we speaking about popes and other poops. :pooh:
Seems there are few others that share my view, (including the likes C K Garabed, see below) of this outburst of Old Billy, perhaps during a drunken stupor.. I dont, I never did understand the message. Any others here do?
Did Old Billy know History, in particular Armenian History, beside what he heard from great uncle and aunt? Was he born and raised in Armenia? Why not? Did he know that Armenia was practically and virtually wiped off the map so many times, and eventually reduced to an area smaller than Fresno?
Could he have spoken those words at the risk of being hanged at the nearest tree in his ancestral Bitlis? Why did his ancestors flee Bitlis **and moved to Fresno, at the present less tha 10% of what it was before Baghesh became Bitlis?
Yes, we all shoot the breeze after a couple of glasses of oghi..
Note. This nonsensical outburst has done us as much good as that other farting by hitler.
**The original name of Bitlis was Baghesh. The Arabs renamed it Bitlis.
http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Բաղեշ
----
Quote.
Obviously, I had found the quote impressionable; otherwise I would not have done what I did. I would read the quote every now and then with some sense of comfort that our growing sons may read it, too, and over time establish some understanding as to who we are and where do we come from. Over time I established a familiarity with it. When novelty gives way to familiarity so do feelings give way to reason of varying degree. It is then that it occurred to me to ask myself: "What is this quote really saying?"
====
Published in Keghart.com (http://www.keghart.com)

http://www.keghart.c...royan-quote.jpg

Saroyans Popular But Nonsensical Quote
By Vahe H. Apelian, Ohio, 9 January 2014
I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, literature is unread, music is unheard, and prayers are no more answered.
Go ahead, destroyArmenia. See if you can do it. Send them into the desert without bread or water. Burn their homes and churches. Then see if they will not laugh, sing and pray again. For when two of them meet anywhere in the world, see if they will not create a New Armenia.
Many, I bet most, English-speaking Armenians have seen William Saroyan's quote. Some may have also bought an inscription of the quote on a plaque. I was no exception. In fact, I ordered the larger size and hung it on a wall in our house. Saroyan looms larger than life, especially for Armenians. His image may have helped to bolster the impression. He was a bear of man with an oversized and impressive mustache. That is how he remains etched in my memory.
Obviously, I had found the quote impressionable; otherwise I would not have done what I did. I would read the quote every now and then with some sense of comfort that our growing sons may read it, too, and over time establish some understanding as to who we are and where do we come from. Over time I established a familiarity with it. When novelty gives way to familiarity so do feelings give way to reason of varying degree. It is then that it occurred to me to ask myself: "What is this quote really saying?"

First and foremost I saw a pervasive paranoia in the quote: I should see any power destroy this race. Go ahead, destroy Armenia, etc. etc. etc. Surely we have had and have our share of enemies but I bet more people on this planet do not know us to ever bother to think of harming us.
Destroy, but who?
Destroy this small tribe of unimportant people. Is that what we are? Is this what I want our children to read growing up...that we come from a tribe of unimportant people? How would my sons teacher and friends react, I thought, if my son took the plaque to school for a morning class show-and-tell? I felt aghast.
On further thought, I realized that there is more in the quote that kills the spirit than uplifts it. After all, we are speaking of a people whose structures have crumbled, literature is unread, music is unheard, and prayers are no more answered. Gosh, imagine trying to explain this to a child you are raising to be proud of his or her heritage.
Granted, that there are affirmative statements in the quote about Armenians coming together, laughing, singing and creating a new Armenia. All that is good and well, but offers little solace after all the paranoia, doom and gloom.
Eventually it occurred to me that the plaque did not cite the source of the quote. Internet search-engines were of no help. I started having doubts whether Saroyan had really said it.
Sometime later I came across a discussion in Armenian media which alleged that Saroyans quote is a sanitized version of his utterance. The writer said that Saroyan started it with an obscene expression. If I were to use it in an article, more likely than not, editors will censor it. The commentator said that the original quote contains the word mother but not as in the Holy Mother of God expression. It would not surprise me that Saroyan would use a foul expression. As I said, he loomed larger than life and had his way when it came to words.
I still don't know for sure if a foul expression precedes the quote. However, it makes more sense to me that it does. Saroyan, more likely than not, said what he said in rage. We are not supposed to sound rational when angry. Our rage is an outlet to express our frustration more so than to make sense. Surely what we say in our rage in not meant to be educational.
For all those who would like to display the quote in their homes, I suggest them to have it inscribed in verbatim and indicate the source once they find it. Its the right thing to do. After all, words, even foul expressions, make sense and may even sound less offensive if they are used in context. Otherwise, one may consider doing what I did with its sanitized version: I tucked it away.

Edited by Arpa, 15 January 2014 - 10:47 AM.


#17 onjig

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 05:31 PM

The farting of Hitler: "Who today remembers the Armenians?"



#18 hagopn

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:10 PM

At the risk of sounding apologetic, which I truly don't care anymore, since Eshrael is busy denying the Armenian genocide, providing strategic and intelligence support as well as constantly arming furkey at every turn, I will say that the brainwashing against the "Nazi" is mostly political and unfounded - which, "Nazi" is apparently was a derogatory term coined by a Jew that the National Socialists themselves resented.

 

As much as I cannot stand the "nordic supremacist" drivel such as that spewed at stormfront and other trash sites, I also cannot equally stand the "we are the worst and only worthy victims of genocide" drivel of Zionists.

 

I came to this conclusion, ironically. after sitting, in good faith and conscience, in a series of Holocaust study classes and hearing, day after day, how tragic it was.  I agree that death of innocents is always a tragic deal, and genocide should never be condoned.

 

Yet, two unexpected categories of knowledge were thrown my way, at first without my full comprehension of just what was being said. 

 

First, that the Holocaust studies professors, almost all, were very non-chalant with the phrase "humans and gentiles."  That, in the beginning, didn't irk me as much, until I began reading Elie Wiesel and then seeing him deny support for genocide recognition in the Knesset.  It certainly made me look twice, starting in 1993, when I was absolutely irate already, as Arpa and others would know.  Then, to be even more blunt, A. Spiegelman wrote a comic novel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus "Maus", which absolutely blew me away on the hypocrisy of all this.  Read it yourselves and find out.

 

Day by day, I became more and more convinced that I needed to seek sources outside the mainstream and even attempt to locate some Hitlerian period scholarship and prose.  You have got to read both sides.  In their case, there really are two sides.*** 

 

Needless to say, I found something interesting.  The second interesting fact: Hitler's Germany was a land with no unemployment, no inflation, no "interest bearing" crippling loan system but instead a series interest free government grants and loans programs, low crime rates, low prostitution rates, low divorce rates...  you get the picture.  Those are the official stats.  Would they lie?  Apparently not, if they had such a strong following of people ready to die for it, and they died in droves believing in it. 

 

The Volkswagen was specifically developed to make automobiles affordable and easy to maintain, low cost with low emissions and pollution factors, no water cooling required.  This was something that gave their tanks, also, an edge in desert warfare for Rommel, apparently.   The Autobahn was developed for ease of transportation and low energy consumption, the first of its kind.  These folks, in every way, were way ahead of any other society out there!  Technologists were encouraged to improve and then improve some more.  To me, that sounds benevolent, but that's just me.  All the eugenics and all the "Nordic supremacist" nonsense notwithstanding, their state model was truly remarkable, not flawless, but damn functional!

 

Yes, I know, I know, "Hitler is evil incarnate, much, much worse than Tala'at", even Armenians are taught that.  How absolutely pathetic!  Are you $&*$%^*($% kidding me?  Try reading Primo Levi and find out that their camp days were vacations in Cancun compared to what our ancestors went through! 

 

Besides, since they are such compassionate beings, where is the Armenian Genocide exhibit in their Simon Wiesenthal Museum of Tolerance?  You might read about the Kalmyk "genocide", or the Adyge "genocide", but you will not hear or read about the Armenian one! 

 

Strategically and Militarily: Aside from the well known fact of arming Turkey to the teeth, they also provide it with intelligence, as mentioned above.  That is not enough, they also have a long-standing Defense Pact between Israel-Georgia,-Azerbaijan-Turkey.  The Ossettian massacres of 2008 were led by 2 Israeli citizens in the Georgian upper echelons:  Iacobashvili, the then "Interior Minister For the Integration of Georgia" and the military commander of the campaign, Zerekhashvili, both dual citizens and fluent in Hebrew.  Israeli sources then "expressed pride" in their "military hardware."  You do the math.

 

Ideologically, have they ever truly objected to an even more "Nazi" like political party that is very active, the Bozkurt/Gray Wolves?  In fact, they quickly removed an article on the Internet that spoke of the Gray Wolf leader being embraced by the Rabbi during a visit to a synagogue in his attempt to garner votes.  This was in 1992, and I remember it well.  I have the archived emails.  It is no secret that Zionists love fascist Turkey.  Islamist Turkey?  Well? Have they stopped arming it?  Have they stopped supporting it in propaganda wars against Armenians?  Not a chance!  Will they "because we are so nice to them?"  They merely see it as a sign of weakness!

 

Therefore, for Turkey's "Hitlers" to be still worshipped in Turkey, that is just fine and dandy.  We have, after all, an "Ataturk International Airport."  Do we have a "Adolph Hitler International Airport" in Germany somewhere I didn't know about?

 

***Ironically, it is the Armenian case that has no "two" sides to it!  Turks are parasitic butchers, and Armenians the civilized ones who were murdered, really in a span of 800 or so years, in the most cruel series of manners one can think of.  That is the end of it!  "Russian collaboration" blah blah.  What the hell do they expect an occupied and constantly abused people on their OWN LAND to do?  "Armenians citizens against their own country."  The gall of it all!  "Ottoman citizen" bullshit was only adopted by "brotherhood" idiots in Constantinople and Smyrna.  No Armenian in his right mind ever saw himself to be a "citizen" of anything!  We were occupied by a hostile parasite who bled us dry and then murdered us once it became apparent that we could successfully become masters of our OWN territories again and re-instate our own identity, which we had begun at an accelerated pace.


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#19 onjig

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:59 PM

Mirig was born Maryam Marget Adalian, in Yetem, California in the year 1900 on the Adalian ranch.  Her friend Lucy Saroyan's brother wrote short stories and articles. She was happy to know people liked his work even non Armenians. While I never knew the family, I saw, as years passed, there were fewer people who didn't recognize his name.

 

That saying attributed to him bothered me, knowing we were almost erased and they are not satisfied yet. 


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#20 hagopn

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:35 AM

Mirig was born Maryam Marget Adalian, in Yetem, California in the year 1900 on the Adalian ranch.  Her friend Lucy Saroyan's brother wrote short stories and articles. She was happy to know people liked his work even non Armenians. While I never knew the family, I saw, as years passed, there were fewer people who didn't recognize his name.

 

That saying attributed to him bothered me, knowing we were almost erased and they are not satisfied yet. 

Glad to have met you!  Thanks for letting us know of this.






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