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Gays/lesbians And Being Armenian


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#21 Sassun

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:03 PM

QUOTE(nairi @ Jun 7 2007, 12:35 AM)  
Being gay is something you are born as, not something you can convert to. Perhaps the difference lies there.

Really ? Hmm, many argue otherwise... both on the issue of whether or not they are born homosexual, and on the issue of whether or not they can "become" heterosexual . At least for the devout Christians who are apparently too shy to venture into this thread and make the same arguments about treason ... mmm !!! smile.gif

QUOTE
What is the percentage of gay and lesbians in our society ? I don't think we have to care about, the majority is hetero.

Same with converts , no ? smile.gif Yet some people do not see anything wrong with calling converts traitors...

So , since I accept their standards on accusing people of treason , I shall now consider homosexuals to be traitors to Armenianness, and to top it all, Dajigs too..

Giving people a taste of their own medicine , i guess.

#22 Sip

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE(Sassun @ Jun 6 2007, 05:03 PM)  
Giving people a taste of their own medicine , i guess.


I wouldn't have expected any less of a muslim biggrin.gif An eye for an eye, eh?


#23 Sassun

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 05:05 PM

QUOTE(Sip @ Jun 7 2007, 01:57 AM)  
I wouldn't have expected any less of a muslim biggrin.gif An eye for an eye, eh?

Absolutely. Isn't that the only language some people understand?

Anyway , read my first reply in this thread and you will see what my position is. The rest is my sarcasm / bitterness.


#24 vahan79

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE(Harut @ Jun 6 2007, 03:43 PM)  
i don't care about gays... but deep me in chocolate and throw me to lesbians... tongue.gif


Yeah, I made the mistake of saying "Oh, cool, gay, cool, uh....I watch the L Word." Leave me alone, it was an awkward moment. He just laughed at me, so it worked out. tongue.gif

#25 Anoushik

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 09:35 PM

QUOTE(Sassun @ Jun 6 2007, 03:03 PM)  
Really ? Hmm, many argue otherwise... both on the issue of whether or not they are born homosexual, and on the issue of whether or not they can "become" heterosexual . At least for the devout Christians who are apparently too shy to venture into this thread and make the same arguments about treason ... mmm !!! smile.gif
Same with converts , no ? smile.gif Yet some people do not see anything wrong with calling converts traitors...

So , since I accept their standards on accusing people of treason , I shall now consider homosexuals to be traitors to Armenianness, and to top it all, Dajigs too..

Giving people a taste of their own medicine , i guess.

Sassun, it's not the same with converts. I've debated about gays too before on this thread (ages ago!) and I've come to the conclusion that being gay is not contagious. Seriously, can you imagine turning gay one day? Statistics also show certain number of people that are gays have existed and continue to exist in society. It's always a fixed number. But with converts it's another story. Weak-minded people like yourself represent a larger number of society. Don't believe me? How do you explain then the various cults that pop up every once in a while, and the growing influences of such "religions" as Jehova's Witnesses, the Church of Mormons, Scientology, and the Muslim converts (such as yourself), etc.?

#26 Anonymouse

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 10:15 PM

QUOTE(vahan79 @ Jun 3 2007, 07:35 PM)  
Hey all, I thought I'd bring this topic up. Basically, I have a friend (Armenian) that just came out to me (and no, it's not me using "friend" to pretending to have a "friend"). Apparently, he has been "out" for a long long time in his circle, but didn't want to tell any of his Armenian friends because he was afraid we'd be judgmental/non-accepting/tell people and it would get back to his parents (he didn't tell them). He does have some gay Armo friends and there is even a group I guess in LA, something like GALAS (not sure what all the letters stand for huh.gif )


Sucks to be your friend. No one wants to be ass pirate but they can't help it so we should of course learn to live with them.

QUOTE(vahan79 @ Jun 3 2007, 07:35 PM)  
(1) Are we, as Armenians, less accepting of gay people among us (i.e., we accept odarner/otarner that are gay, but not "our own")?


Yes we are.

QUOTE(vahan79 @ Jun 3 2007, 07:35 PM)  
(2) Why do we care?


Because Armenians have this notion that being gay or the hippie Western lifestyle somehow overlooks them.


QUOTE(vahan79 @ Jun 3 2007, 07:35 PM)  
(3) Do gay Armenians have the same pressure to partner with another Armenian (despite the whole kid thing being a sort non-issue)?


I wouldn't know. Don't you think this question is better posed to someone who is an actual gay/lesbian/etc Armenian?

QUOTE(vahan79 @ Jun 3 2007, 07:35 PM)  
(4) How do you personally feel about gays/lesbians/etc.?


My personal views on homosexuality are almost neutral unless otherwise. I don't care if someone is gay, wants to be gay, or thinks they are gay. What people do in their lives and in their bedrooms, is of no ones concern. However, I have a problem when homosexuals try to export their lifestyle and advertise it constantly. Homosexuals are a vociferous group and in Hollywood, movies, media, academia, universities, and here in L.A. they are always trying to commercialize and advertise homosexuality as an 'alternative lifestyle' and that we should all be accepting. When homosexuals push their lifestyle into my zone of privacy then I have an issue. If you want to be gay, fine, just keep it to yourself. But please, for God's sake, don't advertise and flaunt your gayness all over the map for us to see that you are gay. We are perfectly adept at judging whether someone is gay based on the lisp, the manner of walking, hand movements, etc. There is no need to advertise to the rest of the world that you are gay. Calm down, have a beer.

It's almost as if homosexuals are trying to convince themselves more than anyone that they are gay.

#27 Anonymouse

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 10:19 PM

QUOTE(Sip @ Jun 6 2007, 05:57 PM)  
I wouldn't have expected any less of a muslim biggrin.gif An eye for an eye, eh?


Is Sassun an Armenian musulman?

#28 Anonymouse

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 10:35 PM

QUOTE(Ariane @ Jun 6 2007, 04:43 PM)  
"no reproduction => no continuation of our existence"
What is the percentage of gay and lesbians in our society ? I don't think we have to care about, the majority is hetero.


This post should be on a sticky on the front of the forum for the most glaring example of ignorance.

You do realize that in todays liberal climate homosexuality is not merely just some deviant behavior people engage in right? It's an 'alternative lifestyle' that is flaunted to our youths and permeates society from almost every orifice of communication. This is no longer a question about 'being born gay' or whatever. Here in modernity, we invent homosexuals and the homosexual identity. It no longer encompasses those poor souls who were born with a predisposition to be gay, but includes all sorts of deviants and wackos who want to experiment, and change sexes and jump clothes from being gay to bisexual and back to being straight.

The majority will always be heterosexual but that misses the point my fellow liberal hippie poster with a French name. In this society, "The West" (i.e. Europe, whatever that means, and America including Canada), Armenians are no longer going from water into wine, but they are water that mix with sands and turn into mud. And while homosexuality or the threat and spectre of homosexuality and its continued promotion in inculcating into the minds of the youth that it is the hip thing to be, is not itself a threat, but coupled with the alarming rate of Armenian miscegeneation and lack of culture creating folk, and you have your culprit of "no reproduction". And while some self-styled Armenians among these boards and beyond like to believe they are righteous Armenians, I assure you, they are nothing but negative leftovers or paper Armenians with the stench of their virulent hedonistic nihilism. To such people, being Armenian is no more and no less a fad than the alternativeness of homosexuality. It's merely a jumpsuit people go in and out of.

#29 Ariane

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 12:24 AM

En réponse à ANONYMOUSE :
IGNORANCE ????? qui es tu, Toi, pour me dire que je suis ignorante, parce que je ne partage pas tes idées !!!!!!! Les gens ont le droit de vivre la vie qui leur plait, tant qu'elle ne nous atteint pas !!!!! NOTRE LIBERTE S'ARRETE Là, Où COMMENCE CELLE DES AUTRES !!!!!!
Tu veux imposer ta façon de penser aux autres de quel droit ???? est ce que je me suis permise de te juger de DICTATEUR !!!!!
Avant de me juger d'ignorante, arrête de te regarder le nombril,
Vis la vie qui te plait, que tu sois homo, ou musulman, tant que tu ne me déranges pas, je respecterai ton mode de vie et ta façon de penser, MOI !!!!!

#30 Anonymouse

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 12:58 AM

Oh okay, clearly I cannot contend with anyone who speaks and writes in French for they are far better and superior. The lesson is folks, when the arguments get tough, dodge them or pretend to respond but do so in another language!


#31 Ariane

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:01 AM

YOU SAID I WAS IGNORANT, SHOW ME YOUR KNOWLEDGE BOY, SPEAK AND WRITE IN FRENCH AS I DO IN ENGLISH, AM I STILL IGNORANT ????

#32 Anonymouse

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:21 AM

QUOTE(Ariane @ Jun 7 2007, 02:01 AM)  
YOU SAID I WAS IGNORANT, SHOW ME YOUR KNOWLEDGE BOY, SPEAK AND WRITE IN FRENCH AS I DO IN ENGLISH, AM I STILL IGNORANT ????


This is a perfect example of a strawman. You need to reassess your priorities and take philosophy all over. I neither implied nor stated that your ignorance is a related to language in anyway. I specifically stated your ignorance is attributable to your myopic viewpoint.

#33 Anonymouse

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:23 AM

And since nairi is viewing this thread, we can definitely expect a reply from her! smile.gif

#34 nairi

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:31 AM

QUOTE(Anonymouse @ Jun 7 2007, 06:35 AM)  
This post should be on a sticky on the front of the forum for the most glaring example of ignorance.

You do realize that in todays liberal climate homosexuality is not merely just some deviant behavior people engage in right? It's an 'alternative lifestyle' that is flaunted to our youths and permeates society from almost every orifice of communication. This is no longer a question about 'being born gay' or whatever. Here in modernity, we invent homosexuals and the homosexual identity. It no longer encompasses those poor souls who were born with a predisposition to be gay, but includes all sorts of deviants and wackos who want to experiment, and change sexes and jump clothes from being gay to bisexual and back to being straight.
...


Interesting that you should single out homosexuals, when heterosexuals have been flaunting their heterosexuality for-ever, to the point of oppressing any alternative (sexual) lifestyle.

#35 Anonymouse

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:34 AM

QUOTE(nairi @ Jun 7 2007, 03:31 AM)  
Interesting that you should single out homosexuals, when heterosexuals have been flaunting their heterosexuality for-ever, to the point of oppressing any alternative (sexual) lifestyle.



Really? And you see something wrong with that? Heterosexuals are the norm and the life force of civilization. Pray to God they keep flaunting it. Deviant behaviors like homosexuality should be tolerated. No one here is advocating killing homosexuals or locking them up. What happened to those two gay teens in Iran is a shame. However, with that said, heterosexuals do not need to have pride parades where they get to dress up half naked with their cocks and balls all over the place.

But then again, you do live in Europe and clearly you and Ariane know best because anyone who lives in Europe knows best, since they are so tolerant and liberal and progressive, right?

#36 Ariane

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:35 AM

I got enough of u ma man, u're just closed, I won't discuss much more with you on this subject, it's out of topic, I don't want to convinced you, stay with your ideas, it's not my problem, whatever you think on me and the rest of the world, and if u want to have the last word, you'll have it !!!!
whatever have a nice day, cause it's your BIRTHDAY today, you just have to mature, a bit more... for to obtain wisdom ! It's what I wish you, as a present.


#37 Anonymouse

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:39 AM

QUOTE(Ariane @ Jun 7 2007, 03:35 AM)  
I got enough of u ma man, u're just closed, I won't discuss much more with you on this subject, it's out of topic, I don't want to convinced you, stay with your ideas, it's not my problem, whatever you think on me and the rest of the world, and if u want to have the last word, you'll have it !!!!
whatever have a nice day, cause it's your BIRTHDAY today, you just have to mature, a bit more... for to obtain wisdom ! It's what I wish you, as a present.


Wow madamme Ariane, I'm sorry to disappoint you mon ami. This isn't about the last word or what not. And who cares about birthdays. I never cared for my birthday and nor should anyone else. And maturity is a matter of perspective, and therefore wisdom is often what we agree with. Anything that quakes the foundations of our prisms is unwise and immature and subterfuge! And by the way, it has never been about obtaining wisdom for me. It's been about riling things and breaking old habits. wink.gif

Edited by Anonymouse, 07 June 2007 - 02:40 AM.


#38 nairi

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 03:01 AM

QUOTE(Anonymouse @ Jun 7 2007, 10:34 AM)  
Really? And you see something wrong with that? Heterosexuals are the norm and the life force of civilization. Pray to God they keep flaunting it. Deviant behaviors like homosexuality should be tolerated. No one here is advocating killing homosexuals or locking them up. What happened to those two gay teens in Iran is a shame. However, with that said, heterosexuals do not need to have pride parades where they get to dress up half naked with their cocks and balls all over the place.


As far as I'm concerned there is still a lot of intolerance towards homosexuals around the world, including Europe, and certainly America. So what if gays want to parade every year in the one city in America where they are somewhat tolerated? Isn't America supposed to be the land of the free? As much as you are allowed to flaunt your Armenian tricolor wherever you go, so too I don't see why gays should not be allowed to flaunt their rainbow colors wherever they go. And surely, as much as there are gays participating in this behavior, there are many more who do not. The same could be said of Armenians living in the diaspora.

And yes, I do have a problem with cultural hegemony and people speaking of norms versus deviation. Because it sets a limit on those who prefer not to follow this construed norm or who cannot follow it for different reasons. The fact that norms are constantly questioned and overturned by those who cannot or do not want to follow them, in fact demonstrates that the norm of human beings (if such a thing is possible) is difference.

#39 Anonymouse

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 03:17 AM

QUOTE(nairi @ Jun 7 2007, 04:01 AM)  
As far as I'm concerned there is still a lot of intolerance towards homosexuals around the world, including Europe, and certainly America. So what if gays want to parade every year in the one city in America where they are somewhat tolerated? Isn't America supposed to be the land of the free? As much as you are allowed to flaunt your Armenian tricolor wherever you go, so too I don't see why gays should not be allowed to flaunt their rainbow colors wherever they go. And surely, as much as there are gays participating in this behavior, there are many more who do not. The same could be said of Armenians living in the diaspora.

And yes, I do have a problem with cultural hegemony and people speaking of norms versus deviation. Because it sets a limit on those who prefer not to follow this construed norm or who cannot follow it for different reasons. The fact that norms are constantly questioned and overturned by those who cannot or do not want to follow them, in fact demonstrates that the norm of human beings (if such a thing is possible) is difference.


You make it seem as if homosexuals are being destroyed. Please save the dramatic effects of going into that sentimental crescendo. The point still stands. So when I made the point that homosexuals flaunt their cock and balls in their pride parades, now it's a matter of them having the right to do it once a year?

If anyone else did that at any other given time, they'd get arrested for indecent exposure. And to suggest there is even a comparison between waving a stupid flag and ones cock and balls is the height of sillyness.

#40 nairi

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 03:28 AM

QUOTE(Anonymouse @ Jun 7 2007, 11:17 AM)  
You make it seem as if homosexuals are being destroyed. Please save the dramatic effects of going into that sentimental crescendo. The point still stands. So when I made the point that homosexuals flaunt their cock and balls in their pride parades, now it's a matter of them having the right to do it once a year?

If anyone else did that at any other given time, they'd get arrested for indecent exposure. And to suggest there is even a comparison between waving a stupid flag and ones cock and balls is the height of sillyness.


I just don't care enough. Mankind is one silly pool of dirt and mud that has polluted the world long enough. Which is another reason why I choose not to follow your norms of procreation.

So yes, I find it stupid that you'd get arrested for flaunting your private parts, because since when are private parts private? Who made them private? There are still lots of tribes who flaunt their manhood, without shame.

As for the flag and the cock and balls comparison, that was not what I was comparing. I was comparing the act of proudly flaunting oneself as being part of a community.




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