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BEIJING 2008


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#21 Arpa

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 07:52 AM

Guess who has a gold medal!
Yup!
Our “friends” on the east.!
Armenia does not yet appear in the medals list.
http://www.nbcolympi...ings/index.html
Changing faces. Modern Olympics don’t look any thing like the original.
It is ironic that during classical Greek days no one had heard of 90% of these people. More ironic that during the beginning of the modern Olympics , 1896 there was no “boobaijan”.
Changing faces. China is well on its way to win this Olympics. Their faces don’t look very “greek”.
Speaking of faces, look how many non- Caucasians, non-Arians are playing for countries otherwise known as milk white.
For quite sometime Africans and African Americans have dominated the more physical sports like marathons, 100 meter dash etc., look what is happening when they enter the more noble and more “affluent” venues (Tiger Wood?)
And Cullen Jones.
His own story is that at the age of 4 he almost drowned and came back to “conquer “ the water. Listen to him;


PS. Armenia should also consider moving, besides the primitive weight lifting, wrestling, boxing etc. to the more noble sports like gymnastics,
http://www128.pair.c...k7/Azaryan2.jpg
http://www.azariangy...mages/hist3.jpg
http://www.google.co.../...=image&cd=1
http://www.armeniape...Armenian_Sports
swimming, synchronized swimming(water ballet, Swan Lake), diving etc. Not to forget Igor TerOhanessian (ՏէրՀովհաննիսյան)the broad jumper.
http://www.nytimes.c...ml?pagewanted=3
QUOTE
To Igor Ter-Ovanesyan, not quite twenty-two, who had made the Soviet team in the broad jump for the second straight Olympics, competing against athletes from the United States remained an intimidating prospect. Igor was the Soviet version of a gym rat, a lifelong product of the state-run athletic system. His father, an Armenian-born discus thrower, and his mother, a Ukrainian volleyball player, had met at the Kiev State Institute of Physical Education, and both taught there while he was growing up. Although he did not turn to track and field until he was fifteen, Ter-Ovanesyan showed uncommon early talent, breaking the broad-jump record for his age group in his first competition.

Edited by Arpa, 11 August 2008 - 08:45 AM.


#22 vava

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 11:28 AM

QUOTE (nairi @ Aug 9 2008, 03:59 PM)
Btw, I thought the countries came in order of how many strokes it takes to draw the first character of the name of the country.


Yes, I think you're correct smile.gif

And thanks for the link Domino...

#23 Arpa

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE (vava @ Aug 11 2008, 06:28 PM)
Yes, I think you're correct smile.gif

And thanks for the link Domino...

Mi estil no unstand. Mi no espik chinki tongue.gif biggrin.gif smile.gif

#24 DominO

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 12:24 PM

I don't trust the olympics anyway, many of those athletes are on drugs. From the way Phelps Jaw has developped I'm pretty much sure he's drugged too.

Anti-drug agencies will catch banished agents, which are pass dated.

Thorpe had high LH and testosterone in his blood and could get through all the tests and keep his 5 gold medals. LH is suppressed when testosterone levels rise, unless someone has a pituitary tumor big enough or is taking some for of Recombinant LH.

You could keep LH on the upper range with testosterone, and couple this with the best training technology including with sport doctors specialising in metabolism and you could be as much drugged and advantaged as anyone who is banished because they could detect what he took.

#25 nairi

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 04:36 PM

I just now watched a documentary on Dutch TV about Chinese children trained to become acrobats. I saw a similar documentary about two years ago. Still, it's only after watching the torture that many children have to endure in order to become top athletes that you begin to understand why the Chinese are doing so well during the Olympics. It's sad to see that humanity is gradually being stripped from us to reach the top of our fields. Apparently, in order to "make it," we need to turn into machines. Which brought the grim image of the Soviet Union to mind. We all know that our weightlifters are on dope: another one of the legacies of the Soviet Union.

#26 nairi

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Aug 11 2008, 03:52 PM)
PS. Armenia should also consider moving, besides the primitive weight lifting, wrestling, boxing etc. to the more noble sports like gymnastics, swimming, synchronized swimming(water ballet, Swan Lake), diving etc. Not to forget Igor TerOhanessian (ՏէրՀովհաննիսյան)the broad jumper.


Yes, yes, yes!!! And figure skating in the winter sports. They already have the music and the coaches. smile.gif All we need now are skaters!

#27 DominO

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE (nairi @ Aug 11 2008, 06:36 PM)
We all know that our weightlifters are on dope: another one of the legacies of the Soviet Union.


Being on dope has no signification anymore, human growth hormone, recombined LH, epitestosterone (hiding agent) etc.

I am personally against drug test, they should run health tests not drug tests. Drug test advantage the West particularly the US, where technology is available. Modern athletes are technologically doped (training with the best sport doctors, or swimming dress worked by NASA etc.) or the uses of substances which will never be detected because they are bioidentical to normal hormones etc.

Insteed substances should be tested and made available to any athletes who wish to take them. Drug is part of professional sport and no one can do anything about it. Think of as simple as autotransfusion, when an athlete keep his own blood to be tranfused during competition etc. There are many many ways to cheat. Drug control actually is even more unjust, because now only a limited number of athletes can cheat while others will be catched.

Edited by DominO, 11 August 2008 - 11:36 PM.


#28 vava

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 09:00 AM

QUOTE (DominO @ Aug 12 2008, 01:34 AM)
Being on dope has no signification anymore, human growth hormone, recombined LH, epitestosterone (hiding agent) etc.

I am personally against drug test, they should run health tests not drug tests. Drug test advantage the West particularly the US, where technology is available. Modern athletes are technologically doped (training with the best sport doctors, or swimming dress worked by NASA etc.) or the uses of substances which will never be detected because they are bioidentical to normal hormones etc.

Insteed substances should be tested and made available to any athletes who wish to take them. Drug is part of professional sport and no one can do anything about it. Think of as simple as autotransfusion, when an athlete keep his own blood to be tranfused during competition etc. There are many many ways to cheat. Drug control actually is even more unjust, because now only a limited number of athletes can cheat while others will be catched.


And so where do you draw the line? There will always be newer "enhancement" technologies - is it all "part" of the competition? I would hope not... We know now that the East German swimmers who cleaned up the medals in '76 were doped. They won, kept their medals (well, some chose to return them) and 20 odd years later they have beards & a slew of health problems including liver cancer, organ damage, psychological defects, hormonal changes and infertility. Ben Johnson's gold in '88 was turned over to American Carl Lewis, also a doper. But is this fair? Isn't it just the easy was out to say "Let's even the playing field" and let everyone cheat? It still won't be equal - there will be better, more expensive drugs, better trained physicians etc. - the only winners will be those who supply the enhancement. The athletes will be left behind, along with their health.

Drug testing seems to be always behind the curve, so it's not an ideal solution - but it seems to me that the institutions and those who fund amateur sport will (long-term) disassociate themselves if doping/cheating continues.



#29 Arpa

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:06 AM

Nowadays specimens must be preserved for a minimum of 8 years, waiting for the next inevestigative technology.
And, as Vava above shows how many were found to have been doped after so many years .
If only we had the technology to see how the original olympians were doped, to see what they were smoking or ingesting.
If, today our athletes were to compete like the original olympians, in their "birthday suits', read "nude", they would be arrested, remanded to a prison or, in the least to an insane asylum.
Of course, today we wear "laser" swim suits and string bras to cover our nipples and peepees, not much else. tongue.gif biggrin.gif
Who said that athletes must wear thick fleece/մուշտակ overcoats? smile.gif Maybe, if the Summer Olympics were held in the winter in Siberia!! tongue.gif

Edited by Arpa, 12 August 2008 - 10:12 AM.


#30 Harut

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 10:24 AM

on the happier note, armenia won 2 bronze medals yesterday... smile.gif

#31 vava

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 11:31 AM

QUOTE (Harut @ Aug 12 2008, 12:24 PM)
on the happier note, armenia won 2 bronze medals yesterday... smile.gif

2?? biggrin.gif Great news. One of them was Roman Amoyan - who won bronze in the 55kg Wrestling event. For those interested, Russia won gold, and Azerbaboonistan won the silver...

#32 Arpa

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 11:35 AM

QUOTE (Harut @ Aug 12 2008, 05:24 PM)
on the happier note, armenia won 2 bronze medals yesterday... smile.gif

Yes!! http://www.nbcolympi...ists/index.html
NBC stinks! They don't show anything that US team is not involved in, even if it is more than scratching ones' crotch! tongue.gif biggrin.gif
They will show us three hours of boring bitch, oops.gif"beach vollybal", but they will not show us real volleyball. Lest the Cubans or the Egyptians rule.
They may also show us how, see 2004 Athens Olympics, a 40 kg Bulgarian furk midget lifted 80 kgs. tongue.gif biggrin.gif
There must be another way to watch the whole thing.
Where is hitler?
Where was he when the American "negro" Jessie Owens blew his blond and blue eyed "arian" myth'?
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Jesse_Owens

Edited by Arpa, 12 August 2008 - 12:11 PM.


#33 vava

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Aug 12 2008, 01:35 PM)
NBC stinks! They don't show anything that US team is not involved in, even if it is more than scratching ones' crotch! tongue.gif biggrin.gif
There must be another way to watch the whole thing.


CBC.ca - but that won't guarantee that you'll see Armenians...
Tigran Gevorg MARTIROSYAN won the other Medal for Armenia in Weightlifting 62-69kg class. thumbsup.gif

#34 DominO

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 11:50 AM

QUOTE (vava @ Aug 12 2008, 11:00 AM)
And so where do you draw the line? There will always be newer "enhancement" technologies - is it all "part" of the competition? I would hope not... We know now that the East German swimmers who cleaned up the medals in '76 were doped. They won, kept their medals (well, some chose to return them) and 20 odd years later they have beards & a slew of health problems including liver cancer, organ damage, psychological defects, hormonal changes and infertility. Ben Johnson's gold in '88 was turned over to American Carl Lewis, also a doper. But is this fair? Isn't it just the easy was out to say "Let's even the playing field" and let everyone cheat? It still won't be equal - there will be better, more expensive drugs, better trained physicians etc. - the only winners will be those who supply the enhancement. The athletes will be left behind, along with their health.

Drug testing seems to be always behind the curve, so it's not an ideal solution - but it seems to me that the institutions and those who fund amateur sport will (long-term) disassociate themselves if doping/cheating continues.


Vava, it's not only about being behind the curve, but we already know that some enhancing drugs will never be detected, so athletes can give thir blood for the 8 years 'super testing.'

I am a little unconfortable about the cheating 'thing', as this suggest that there could be anything about having equal rights in those sports, while we know that eugenism is already practiced in sport for decates. Is this not cheating? Everyone does not have the same amount of testosterone and other hormones, they do not have the same feet size etc. What's really fair?

Insteed of fighting to keep sport clean from enhancing drugs, those drugs should be better controlled not banished, with a given dosage etc. We know for instance that some drugs will cut the advantage of using other drugs, particularly those we know could never be detected. Tests should be run on the limits of hormones like they are done in the case of hemoglobin, insteed of the substance used.

#35 vava

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE (DominO @ Aug 12 2008, 01:50 PM)
Vava, it's not only about being behind the curve, but we already know that some enhancing drugs will never be detected, so athletes can give thir blood for the 8 years 'super testing.'

I am a little unconfortable about the cheating 'thing', as this suggest that there could be anything about having equal rights in those sports, while we know that eugenism is already practiced in sport for decates. Is this not cheating? Everyone does not have the same amount of testosterone and other hormones, they do not have the same feet size etc. What's really fair?

Insteed of fighting to keep sport clean from enhancing drugs, those drugs should be better controlled not banished, with a given dosage etc. We know for instance that some drugs will cut the advantage of using other drugs, particularly those we know could never be detected. Tests should be run on the limits of hormones like they are done in the case of hemoglobin, insteed of the substance used.


Height, weight, shoe size are part of the natural variances in an individual. Injecting chemicals and artificially isolated hormones is wholly unnatural, and when used for performance enhancement is cheating. You cannot draw the same parallels between between an optimized exercise and diet regimen and the use of steroids & growth hormones.

I don't think you can "control" these drugs. How would you control dosages, for example? It would be impossible to determine if someone was using higher than permitted levels... I agree with your last point, however the possibility will remain that someone innocent may get caught as a result of abnormal levels of some naturally occurring hormone/chemical.

#36 DominO

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE (vava @ Aug 12 2008, 02:12 PM)
Height, weight, shoe size are part of the natural variances in an individual. Injecting chemicals and artificially isolated hormones is wholly unnatural, and when used for performance enhancement is cheating. You cannot draw the same parallels between between an optimized exercise and diet regimen and the use of steroids & growth hormones.

I don't think you can "control" these drugs. How would you control dosages, for example? It would be impossible to determine if someone was using higher than permitted levels... I agree with your last point, however the possibility will remain that someone innocent may get caught as a result of abnormal levels of some naturally occurring hormone/chemical.


This is where I draw the line. You are saying artificial vs natural, I am saying no matter if it is natural or 'artificial' they should have similar chances.

What is an optimized excercise? Sport doctors specialising on cell metabolism, with the right combination to maximize the potential of the athletes? What is a diet regiment? Some zinc formulations believed to rise testosterone levels? Is hypobaric chambers 'optimized' excercise? And what is autotransfusion? What about increaing LH and FSH hormones with recombined human 'forms', we aren't touching steroids there, are we?

They should contrate on the level of those hormones in the blood rather than how those levels were achieved. Giving a defined limit, also making controlled substances that can be used to achieve those limits available to those athletes.

There should be controls on the health statue of the athletes rather than what they are taking, too much of anything will have impacts on the liver, kidneys etc. and mesuring health statues like a strict range for creatinine etc. are better measure because those parametters are influenced when someone takes a substance.

This anti-drug hunting will push further the technology to find better substances which will not be detected, sport medecine (which can also be considered as a form of doping) or so called diets etc..., and in this game sport becomes a multi-million dollar industry it is now, where to excell you have to be an American or have a group behind you who has access to all this as well as investors.

#37 Zartonk

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 03:53 PM

We have two bronze medals!

Congratulations to Roman Amoyan (Greco-Roman, 55 kg) and Tigran Gevorq Martirosyan (Weightlifting, 96 kg).

Let's hope more is on the way smile.gif

#38 nairi

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Aug 12 2008, 07:35 PM)
NBC stinks! They don't show anything that US team is not involved in, even if it is more than scratching ones' crotch! tongue.gif biggrin.gif


http://os2008.nos.nl...e/index/kanaal/ in case cbc.ca doesn't work, but it's live, so you'll have to get up on time to watch the games.. Ladies water polo again tomorrow, Holland-Greece (keep an eye out for No. 4).


#39 Armenak

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 08:48 PM

A certain Armen Vardanyan (competing for Ukraine) just beat Azeri favorite Farid Mansurov at Greco-Roman wrestling.

A certain Varteres Samourgachev (a lawyer by profession, competing for Russia) will take on Azeri Ilgar Abdulov to reach the quarterfinals of the men's Greco-Roman 74 kg. Arsen Julfalakyan (competing for Armenia!) will take on Hungarian Peter Bacsi to reach the same position!

Good luck to all of them (especially Julfalakyan!).

#40 vava

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE (nairi @ Aug 12 2008, 07:00 PM)
Ladies water polo again tomorrow, Holland-Greece (keep an eye out for No. 4).


Hmmm... any relation? smile.gif




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