220 replies to this topic

[GevorgP]

I posted this on: Mar 2 2005, (under user name: gev12) on the Web site: www.govforum.am, which is down for the last three months.

Doesn't the Nakhidjevan ethnic cleanings history serve as one of the strongest reasons for insisting on Kharabakh independence?

I wonder why we don’t use/articulate the strongest reason: Nakhidjevan ethnic cleanings history, for rejecting Azerbaijan offers on giving Kharabakh highest form of Autonomy, within Azerbaijan. And insist on Kharabakh independence. Note please that it is not likely that the fact supported by USSR formal statistical records would be argued properly.

European Council, UN and most of states worldwide consider the ethnic cleanings as a crime equivalent to the genocide. Let’s remember the lessons learned in our recent history, when forty percent of Armenian origin population of Nakhidjevan, since 1920-ies, have been forced out of Nakhidjevan, during 30-40 years, under the Azerbaijan ruling.

Is the European Council aware of the fact above? If yes, what is their argumentation, when they offer Kharabakh accepting Azerbaijan ruling once again, given the Nakhidjevan history?

We won the Kharabakh war, showing the enemy that Armenians loose the wars only when their forces are divided and they didn’t fight back jointly. This is a turning point in Armenia’s history, we showed the enemy that our ancient nation, with victorious past, fights back enemies every time, when our forces are not divided.

We are not just a nation of mourners of their perished brothers/sisters: don’t forget that, if superpowers (Russia & USA) didn’t intervene in 1994, we could seize Azerbaijan and, offer them autonomy within Kharabakh. Alas they called for help from superpowers, and unfortunately got it.

We remember all the victims of the Turkish genocide of Armenian’s. We never would undergo genocide again, hereinafter we’ll face our enemy on the battleground together and would never loose any battle on our historical ancient soil, because, as opposed to Azeries we have roots there and in addition: now we are united.

Soon or later justice on all historical Armenian soil would prevail and sons of the murders will regret the genocide to adjust a little bit their historical barbarian image.

With regards,

Gevorg

Edited by GevorgP, 01 July 2006 - 01:27 PM.

[Zartonk]

Welcome Sir.

Interesting point, and I believe the Council of Europe is quite honestly well aware of Nakhchavan's history. Also, I always held that the removed Armenian population was much higher than 40%.

[Hellektor]

Welcome Sir.

Interesting point, and I believe the Council of Europe is quite honestly well aware of Nakhchavan's history. Also, I always held that the removed Armenian population was much higher than 40%.

I think it was 54%.

The ethnic cleansing in Nakhijevan and the total desecration of Jugha cemetery along with the destruction of almost 27000 Armenian monuments accounted for by Argam Ayvazian are reasons enough to stop the negotiations, demand compensation, if not to carpet bomb Nakhijevan by Armenia. Since the monuments are gone there will be no unintentional damage to Armenian heritage and since no Armenians live there anymore, there can not be any fear of human loss.

Still we are not talking about the fact that the perpetrators of genocidal acts in Sumgait, Baku, Gandzat, Shamkhor, Shushi, Maragha, Shahoomian, Getashen, etc. in the period of 1988-1992 have to be brought to justice and "Azerbaijan" should eat shit for having started the war.

These are the points the pansy Counsel of Eurofags turn a faggot blind eye on and those castrated OSCE swine, especially that Rabbi Bryza eunuch, can't stop demanding the Armenians to cede land to the sore losers who begged for cease-fire on their knees in 1994.

I really wonder why the Armenian government acts like the loser of the war...

[Dave]

About the ethnic cleansing in Nakhichevan, but:

EDIT: the link is broken... I'll try to find it

Edited by Dave, 12 July 2006 - 08:52 AM.

[Arpa]

About the ethnic cleansing in Nakhichevan, but:

EDIT: the link is broken... I'll try to find it

I have been looking for this for a long time to see how those sonofabitches Turks came so close to Nakhijevan. It still does not give us the details of how and why. Did that sonofabitch Lenin/Stalin have anything to do?
Yes, yes, I have heard that Turkey has the “papers” assigning them as guarantors for the safety and protection of (Azeri)Nakhjavan, and that any threat to it will be taken as a threat to the integrity of Turkakey.
That was then. Turkey has never honored any of the “treaties”. Why should WE honor those so called “treaties” that are not worth the (toilet) paper they were written on.
Even with all this, I am still at a loss as to how, when and why Iran ceded that sliver of land to Turkey. What treaty was it? When? How?
Cut those sonafoabitches off so they will never have free access to either Nakhjavan or Erevan.
Who assigned them as "emperors" of the Caucasus anyway? Y
eah, yeah I know the Ottoman/Kakoman Empire!! Whatever the MQ it means!
Give them access to Ulan Bator, Mongolia, or better yet, to Timbuktu.

NAKHIJEVAN
A HISTORICAL
INTRODUCTION
by Dr. Armen Haghnazarian
Nakhijevan is situated in the area between the
mountain range of Zangezur and the river Arax. It
borders on the Republic of Armenia and the
Islamic Republic of Iran. In 1931 Turkey
exchanged some territory with Iran and acquired a
common frontier with Nakhijevan.
Nakhijevan was located within the borders of
Urartian (Ayraratian) Armenia (9th to 7th centuries
B.C.), as well as the Armenian kingdoms
Observe the map below and tell us why those sonaofabitches have access to it.. It is a narrow goose beak that can be blocked with a couple of tanks and cannons. Why are not the Armenians and the Iranians coming together to cut those so and so’s off??!! That way, those cursed people will have and access to neither Nakhjavan or Ararat.
It’s along read. Be my guest.
Do they know what “blockade” means??

http://www.adiyamanl...ofTurkey/b9.htm

http://72.14.209.104...4...t=clnk&cd=1

This is the html version of the file. Click on the PDF file to see graphics.
http://www.hetq.am/e...lture/Julfa.pdf.
G o o g l e automatically generates html versions of documents as we crawl the web.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: http://www.google.co...A...t=clnk&cd=1
Google is neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.
These search terms have been highlighted: nakhijevan turkey


#Page 1


#Page 2

2
Northern view of the central part of the cemetery with the river Arax in the background. Photo Aram Vruyr, 1915

#Page 3

3
NAKHIJEVAN
A HISTORICAL
INTRODUCTION
by Dr. Armen Haghnazarian
Nakhijevan is situated in the area between the
mountain range of Zangezur and the river Arax. It
borders on the Republic of Armenia and the
Islamic Republic of Iran. In 1931 Turkey
exchanged some territory with Iran and acquired a
common frontier with Nakhijevan.
Nakhijevan was located within the borders of
Urartian (Ayraratian) Armenia (9th to 7th centuries
B.C.), as well as the Armenian kingdoms of the
Orontids (6th to 2nd centuries B.C.), the
Artashessians (189 B.C. to the early 1st century
A.D.) and the Arshakids (66 to 428). In ancient
times and in the Middle Ages, Nakhijevan included
the following districts of Metz Hayk (Armenia
Maior): Sharur District, Ayrarat Province; Yernjak
and Jahuk Districts of Syunik Province; as well as
Nakhijevan and Goghtan Districts of Vaspurakan
Province. Goghtan was the district where Mesrop
Mashtots, the inventor of the Armenian alphabet,
first introduced the Armenian letters.
Due to its geographical position and location
on a transit trade route, Nakhijevan was repeated-
ly invaded and devastated by the Arabs, Seljuk-
Turks, Tatar-Mongols, Ak-Koyunlus (White
Sheep Turkomans), Kara Koyunlus (Black Sheep
Turkomans), as well as the Persians and Turks.
The treaty of Turkmenchay, signed between
Russia and Persia after the Russo-Persian war of
1826 to 1828, shifted Northeastern Armenia,
including Nakhijevan, into Russian domination.
Nakhijevan was included in the Armenian
Province (Armianskaya Oblast) until 1840. It was
then part of Yerevan District between 1840 and
1846, and of Yerevan Province from 1849 till May
1918.
During the period between World War I and
1921, Nakhijevan was situated within the borders
of the first Republic of Armenia.
Between 1919 and 1920, Turkey, under the aus-
pices of its allies, perpetrated the slaughter of
thousands of Nakhijevan Armenians. That carnage
was actually the continuation of the Great
Armenian Genocide, that had been committed in
Turkey since 1915 for the purpose of removing the
obstacle the Armenians posed to Turkey’s unifica-
tion with the Turkic tribes inhabiting what is pres-
ent-day Azerbaijan. A long-pursued dream of Pan-
Turkism, which is still a top priority for that coun-
try...
In compliance with an illegal agreement Soviet
Russia and Turkey signed after World War I, on 16
March 1921 without the participation of the Arme-
nian side, Nakhijevan was placed under the “aus-
pices” of Azerbaijan as an autonomous territory;
in fact, it was annexed to that country after having
formed an inseparable part of Armenia over many
centuries.
Throughout the 70 years of Soviet rule, the
Azerbaijani authorities consistently implemented a
policy of national discrimination against the indige-
nous Armenian populations of Nakhijevan and
Nagorno Karabakh (Artsakh), another Armenian
territory annexed to Azerbaijan in 1923 by Stalin, as
part of his policy of dividing nations to facilitate
control and domination.
On the eve of the collapse of the Soviet Union,
the Armenians of Nagorno Karabakh started a
peaceful movement for self-determination. Azer-

#Page 4

4
Partial views of the cemetery. Photos Rafayel Abgarian, 1986

#Page 5

5
baijan attempted to suppress it, by mobilizing all its
military and civilian forces. Alternately organizing
and allowing pogroms against the Armenians living
in the Azerbaijani cities of Baku, Sumgait and
Gandzak, the Azerbaijani authorities intended to
intimidate the Armenians into abandoning
Karabakh and Nakhijevan. During the years of
armed conflict between Nagorno Karabakh and
Azerbaijan, Northern Karabakh (Northern Artsakh)
and Nakhijevan were totally stripped of their
indigenous Armenian populations. The last remain-
ing 2,000 Armenians were deported from
Nakhijevan in 1989. As a result, Nakhijevan’s cen-
turies-old Armenian cultural heritage was reduced
to a state of captivity, and its planned annihilation
loomed large.
The State of the Armenian
Monuments in Nakhijevan
The centuries-old cultural monuments the
Armenian people created both in Nakhijevan and
other territories of Historical Armenia are of univer-
sal value. At various periods, they were studied by
different foreign scholars.
In recent years, Nakhijevan’s Azerbaijani author-
ities have been perpetrating the premeditated annihi-
lation of a wide variety of Armenian monuments
which are reminders of the Armenian presence in the
region. In August 2005, European researcher
Stephen Sim became witness to the barbarities com-
mitted against the Armenian monuments in
Nakhijevan.
A khachkar, 1551. Photo Zaven Sargissian, 1987
A khachkar, 1575. Photo Rafayel Abgarian, 1986

#Page 6

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Partial views of the cemetery. Photo Zaven Sargissian, 1987

#Page 7

7
The Armenian Cemetery of
Julfa, Nakhijevan
The violence against the memory and his-
tory of the Armenian people reached its cli-
max with the total destruction of the historical
cemetery of Julfa (known as ‘Jugha’ in
Armenian) located in Yernjak District.
Julfa Cemetery used to extend over three
hills on the left bank of the river Arax.
Boasting a special place in the treasury of
world heritage, this extensive depository of
spiritual and artistic monuments aroused the
admiration of both Armenian and foreign
travellers and art historians for many cen-
turies. French traveller Alexandre de Rhodes,
who visited the cemetery in 1648, saw 10,000
standing khachkars and ram-shaped tomb-
stones there. By 1904, however, their number
had been reduced to 5,000.
The khachkars of Julfa Cemetery fall into
three groups. The first group dates from the
period between the 9th and 13th centuries; the
second group from the 14th to 15th centuries,
and the third covers the time span between the
early 16th century and the year 1605.
All the khachkars were carved of pink and
yellowish stone. Having equal width from top
to bottom, they were between two and two
and a half metres high. Their central parts
were more deeply-engraved, the crosses and
double-layer reliefs creating a peculiar con-
trast of light and shade. The khachkars were
adorned with fine rosettes, as well as reliefs
of plants, geometrical figures and scenes of
daily life. Their upper parts often bore the
representations of Christ, the Evangelists and
the Holy Virgin. Most of the khachkars and
grave-stones of the cemetery had embossed
or engraved Armenian epitaphs.
A khachkar, 1571. Photo Zaven Sargissian, 1987

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Khachkars broken to pieces to be used as building material. Photo Zaven Sargissian, 1987

#Page 9

9
The Final Destruction of the
Armenian Cemetery of Julfa
In the Soviet years, Julfa Cemetery was
absolutely neglected by Azerbaijan’s Monuments
Preservation Department; moreover, under state
auspices, its khachkars were continually broken to
pieces and used as building material.
In November 1998, Nakhijevan’s Azerbaijani
authorities started destroying the cemetery with
bulldozers. UNESCO’s intercession was able to
stop that unprecedented vandalism only temporar-
ily.
The annihilation of the cemetery resumed on 9
November 2002. The photographs some eye-wit-
nesses took from the Iranian bank of the river Arax
revealed that none of the cemetery’s khachkars
remained standing.
Between 10 and 14 December 2005, the Azeri
vandals, who had not been held accountable for
their previous crimes, finally succeeded in purging
The cemetery during its destruction with bulldozers. Photo Arpiar Petrossian, 1998
Pombloz Church before its explosion and afterwards. Photos Armen Haghnazarian (1976) and Hrayr Baze-Khacherian (2002)

#Page 10

10
The site of the cemetery with its khachkars toppled over. Photo Hrayr Baze-Khacherian, 2002

#Page 11

11
The Azeri soldiers breaking the khachkars to pieces with heavy hammers. Photo Arthur Gevorgian, 10 to 14 December 2005

#Page 12

12
The Azeri soldiers breaking the khachkars to pieces with heavy hammers. Photo Arthur Gevorgian, 10 to 14 December 2005

#Page 13

13
The crushed pieces of khachkars emptied into the Arax-facing side of the railway. Photo Arthur Gevorgian, 10 to 14 December 2005

#Page 14

14
the three hills of Julfa Cemetery of all the rem-
nants of khachkars. Using heavy hammers and
pickaxes, about 200 soldiers of the Azerbaijani
army reduced the displaced khachkars to a heap of
crushed pieces which were loaded onto lorries and
emptied into the river Arax.
In early March 2006, Nakhijevan’s authorities
stationed a shooting-ground on the site of Julfa
Cemetery. Lying over thousands of human
remains, that firing-ground is an eloquent mani-
festation of Azerbaijan’s moral values. Situated
very close to the Iranian border, it can never serve
soldiers in need of shooting practice. In fact, it was
hurriedly established to conceal Azerbaijan’s
criminal actions: the Azerbaijani authorities
turned the site of the former cemetery into a “mil-
itary zone” so that they could ban foreign missions
and observers from entering it.
An Azerbaijani military base and a shooting-ground stationed in the site of the annihilated cemetery. Photo Arthur Gevorgian, March 2006

#Page 15

15
The Political Consequences of the
Taliban-like Actions of the
Azerbaijani Authorities
A country can gain entry to UNESCO and ICO-
MOS only if it complies with the laws and principles
established in their statutes. Is a member country not
to be expelled from these organizations if it later
infringes its commitments?
Violating the 1948 UN Convention on Cultural
Heritage, Nakhijevan’s Azerbaijani authorities
demolished thousands of Armenian monuments
(churches, monasteries, cemeteries, etc.) in peace-
ful times, with the complicity of their army.
Following the example of the Talibans who
destroyed the statues of Buddha in Bamian,
Afghanistan, Azerbaijan is obliterating Nakhije-
van’s centuries-old historical monuments, thus ho-
ping to prove that the region was never an
Armenian territory...
The destruction of Nakhijevan’s Armenian
cultural heritage at state level is a crime not
only against the Armenian nation but against all
civilization. The annihilation of such monu-
ments as the cemetery of Julfa is defilement of
sacred tenets of all religions. Does a country
having committed such vile desecration have
any right to remain a member of the Council of
Europe?

#Page 16

© RAA Research on Armenian Architecture
http://www.armenianarchitecture.am, http://www.raa.am, e-mail: raayer@sci.am
This publication is sponsored by Aznavour for Armenia Foundation
Printed by “Photogravure Zaven & Fils,” Beirut, Lebanon 2006
“Requiem” for Armenian cultural monuments

Edited by Arpa, 12 July 2006 - 06:33 PM.

[GevorgP]

Dear Zartonk, Arpa and Hellektor,

Thanks a lot for your comments and comprehensive background information on the subject!

I agree that the percentage of Armenian population, in fact, was much higher 40%. But, as you know, after “adjusting” the number of Nakhidjevan Armenian population through Turkish genocide, Azeri “scientists”: the “intellectual” barbarians; who are able to make bare statements, without any factual evidence and/or eating facts, that does not support their conclusions; regardless it is human being or cross stone.

Under USSR Azeries “adjusted” the Armenian population percentage once again to submit it to Soviet Union Statistical Authorities: thus they published the 40%.

But the major argument to ask to Azeri “historians> and officials is:
where are the Nakhidjevan Armenians that USSR statistical authorities officially mentioned? Did you eat the facts?


With best regards,

Gevorg

[Zartonk]

Azeri “scientists”: the “intellectual” barbarians; who are able to make bare statements, without any factual evidence and/or eating facts, that does not support their conclusions; regardless it is human being or cross stone.

Indeed, being the very same barabarians of intellect who decided to create a land in which they are the invaders and plunderes using someone else's toponym for the sake of furthering a chuvanistic "ideology".

[Hellektor]

...Azeri “scientists”: the “intellectual” barbarians; who are able to make bare statements, without any factual evidence and/or eating facts, that does not support their conclusions; regardless it is human being or cross stone.

They don't have to do much. In fact their most common disease is projection. They simply replace 'Turk' ("Azeri" in this case) with 'Armenian' and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history.

They sledgehammer thousands of thousand year old stone-crosses, not to speak of churches, monasteries and everything having an Armenian inscription on it, and when the pansy, queer, immoral, Christ-killer, gayass Eurofags as much as kindly "protest" against these savageries for the sake of lip-service, the "Azeris" vehemently retort and accuse the Europuffs of bias. They project by claiming the Armenians have destroyed all "Azeri" "heritage" in Armenia. Soon the question is forgotten... No one, including Armenian politicians, as much as responds that the fake "nation" called "Azeri" has never existed in human history and was a product of artificial insemination between the Turkish kok and (Jewish) Russian Bolshevik ass in 1918.

The "Azeri" "heritage", when they were still called the Tatars of the Caucasus, for instance, their "tombstones" consisted of a small rather smooth looking stone they would find lying around, with no inscriptions or carvings, placed on the head side of the deceased garbage. After some time, wind would cause the earth to cover the "cemetery" and the precious "human" heritage would be lost forever...

Now someone please tell me, how on earth do you destroy such crap? It's not worth taking a shit on it let alone finding and "destroying" it. So, why the Armenian government does not cease the "negotiations" when Israel destroys Lebanon for a couple of abducted soldiers?

What an objective, balanced, righteous and just phukking democratic world...

As you see I'm not angry with the savage, barbaric, primitive, cattle-herder, tent-dwelling, bloodthirsty, two legged culture-deficiency viruses, rather I'm sick of the faggotery of the Zionist/Western money-worshipping swine who turn a complete acid dissolved eye on such monstrosities.

Under USSR Azeries “adjusted” the Armenian population percentage once again to submit it to Soviet Union Statistical Authorities: thus they published the 40%.

But the major argument to ask to Azeri “historians> and officials is:
where are the Nakhidjevan Armenians that USSR statistical authorities officially mentioned? Did you eat the facts?

Dear GevorgP, It's obvious this is just a rhetorical question, right? The entire existence of the Turks is based on lies and history fabrication. Who gives a damn about the "vanished" Armenians? The only problem these bastards see is the presence of Armenian troops in liberated land.

They can't care less about the fact that "Azerbaijan" started the war in the first place after genociadal acts in Sumgait, Baku, Gandzak, Maragha, Getashen, Shahoomian, etc. which forced 400,000 Armenians (who built Baku) out of their homes in "Azerbaijan". Add to this the destruction of Armenian monuments. The perpetrators of the genocidal acts are at large. The current situation is the consequence of the actions of "Azerbaijan" but all they can bark is that the Armenians have to cede land to the sore losers and "Azeri" vermin should be allowed to infest Armenia. Not a single word for the 400,000 Armenians.

[Hellektor]

For example, just read the filth ejaculated from the rotten bottom of this spokeswhore from the Jewish International Cryjew Group:

The Desperation of a Turk Sucking, Armenian Hating Whore

No Peace Process around Karabakh Now, ICG Believes



Turk Sucking ICG Whore

"/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Past week the Ministers of Foreign Affairs of Azerbaijan and Armenia have issued highly critical statements and these clearly show their concerns over the negotiations process, said Director of the Caucasus project of the International Crisis Group (ICG) Sabine Freizer. In her words, the Armenian side is insisting that the principles included a reference to the Lachin corridor, and to the right to self-determination of the people of NK of their own status through a referendum. The Azerbaijani side is stating that “the principles include liberalization of the occupied territories, demilitarization of the conflict zone, and the return of all Azerbaijani IDPs.” “Yet these are precisely the points that the two sides continue to disagree on – and why they were unable to sign a set of principles in Rambouillet and Bucharest. The modalities of withdrawal from Lachin and Kelbajar and the modalities of a popular vote on the status of NK were not agreed upon by the sides. This is why the co-chairs recommended that they be addressed later – in separate working groups. But in the meantime they suggested that a peace-building process start with the withdrawal of Armenian troops from five districts, to be followed by withdrawal from the other two – and return of IDPs to their homes,” Freizer said. (She ate shit! Kak kerav, boz merakoone H.)

Calling this “a tragic element”, Sabine Freizer stated, “Now there is no peace process. (Thank god! H.) There is not even a negotiations process. Instead the Azerbaijani side is increasingly referring to the military option. If Azerbaijan decides to take offensive action against NK and Armenia (you want to scare us bitch? Let it come if they dare. The chickenshits have to swim across the Caspian this time around. H. ), how many more years will it be before this conflict is resolved. (The conflict war resolved in 1994 when the "Azeri" garbage begged for cease-fire. H.)”

In her opinion, the issue of the referendum on the status of Nagorno-Karabakh is clearly one of the most sensitive points in the package that was being discussed. (The referendum was held in 1991, bitch. Where the hell were you when "Azeris" were shelling Artsakh? H.) “As the co-chairs state: for a withdrawal of Armenian forces from the occupied territories to begin, the sides would have to agree on the principle that a referendum will determine final status. But the precise modalities of this referendum would be discussed in further negotiations. (How fair! H.) Thus the key issue of debate between the Armenian and Azerbaijani side of who would participate in the referendum, where and when it would be held, would be decided upon later,” Freizer underscored. (Kak kerav. No one asked her opinion, who the phuqque is ICG anyway H.)

She added that everything will depend on parties to conflict at the next stage. In her words, if the parties do not display political will to eliminate the differences, no other international assistance in solving the issue should be expected. «The parties should not hope for support of the international community in case the issue is solved by force,» Sabine Freizer said, reports Azeri-Press."

Alleluia! The bitch is desperate! I'm a believer again

[GevorgP]

Dear Hellektor,

Sorry for the answer delay; I could not access the Internet.

Regardless the “reporters” publications; hired by and working under Turks guidance: I guess now the Armenian genocide is almost worldwide recognized and in the coming year 2007 the process will be completed.

Now it is time to draw and discuss the borders of the Armenian territory within Turkey, that we claim as Armenian land, in order to prevent others to initiate it.

Almost for sure, in near future, under the auspices of the superpowers; USA and European Union will be created another independent Armenia-2. Because they would not be willing to join it to nowadays Armenia which is Russia’s ally.

Under current circumstances; when USA almost created the Kurdish state in Iraq, that will become a reliable military base for the superpowers. They don’t recognize Turkey, neither as their ally in the East nor its territorial integrity. Because the Turks are the main Pan Islamic ideology promoters that hurt USA, Europe and the rest of civilized world.

Regards,

GevorgP

[irlandahay]

hey guys.

why we cant take nakhitchevan is simple. (dont get me wrong hellektor yeghpayr, i want it, but i dnt think we can have it just yet)

the turks have a contract with azercrapjan stating that any armenian who crosses the border or any attempt to free the lands is to deal with turkish special forces. they have a base their hidden but there sure enough). if armenians get in we will have to do with american trained turkish special fagces. personnally i dont want to deal with them until we are strong enough to (and we have recognition of armenia and our lands and our genocide)
armenians did try to take the lands abck in 1990 but were quickly pushed out.
on the other hand however, the turks also said theyd protect their armeniancitisens. what im trying to say is a pact with turks on paper isnt worth a penny.

and one question:
getashen, the province. is it the same getashen from that song "im catch getashen" ?

thanks

cheers
-the irish guy

[Hellektor]

Dear Hellektor,

Sorry for the answer delay; I could not access the Internet.

Regardless the “reporters” publications; hired by and working under Turks guidance: I guess now the Armenian genocide is almost worldwide recognized and in the coming year 2007 the process will be completed.

Now it is time to draw and discuss the borders of the Armenian territory within Turkey, that we claim as Armenian land, in order to prevent others to initiate it.

Almost for sure, in near future, under the auspices of the superpowers; USA and European Union will be created another independent Armenia-2. Because they would not be willing to join it to nowadays Armenia which is Russia’s ally.

Under current circumstances; when USA almost created the Kurdish state in Iraq, that will become a reliable military base for the superpowers. They don’t recognize Turkey, neither as their ally in the East nor its territorial integrity. Because the Turks are the main Pan Islamic ideology promoters that hurt USA, Europe and the rest of civilized world.

Regards,

GevorgP

GevorgP jan,

I don't believe the United Slaves of Israel is yet ready to do anything in favor of the Armenians. But what can we do?
We are all "alone" in our struggle and our power is our unity. If Armenians can put their differences aside, we are powerful enough to, at least, liberate Bagavan (Baku) in case the Azerbaboons freak out and start another war, but Turdkey is another story. They are a member of JATO (Judeo-Anglo-Turkish Organization) that has a rule where a member state is attacked it will be defended by the entire bunch.

We need a powerful army that will come once a free and fair (I am on the verge of using a J**ish term that rhymes with Hypocracy ) society is established in Armenia, the economy will also grow in such a society and we can speak of our demands from Jurkey.

Personally, I would like to see the Armenia of Sèvres plus the rest stretching to include Cilicia, Sebastia and Ceasarea, all of it rat and cockroach free of course. On top of that I'd like a 5 trillion dollar compensation for three million killed and expelled (and robbed) Armenians and for the loss of 2000+ churches and monasteries, khachkars, manuscripts, etc., that this species of vermin has inflicted on us in the 20th century alone.

Realistically, when Armenia is powerful enough, we can demand the ratification of the PERFECTLY legal, valid and actual treaty of Sèvres. Before that day, we have the Kurdish thing. They draw the map of their never existing Kurdistan, where the entire Turkish infested Armenian territories (and some) are included. We need to develop a strategy that will prevent the USA to give in to the Kurdish aspirations, but how? We can only hope the love affaire of the Judeo-Saxons and Turks last a little longer and the Turkish ishekery will convince the US not to support the fabrication of Kurdistan in Armenia.

Fortunately, the Armenian government conducts a complementary policy which is really necessary given our unfavorable geographical situation. Leaning too heavily towards NATO or Russia will be dangerous for us. Let's hope fake "Azerbaijan" or Georgia don't become a member of NATO sometime soon. The same way the Russo-Georgian relations shouldn’t worsen more than they are, neither a love affaire between these two is beneficial for Armenia...

[GevorgP]

Let’s put down a preliminary sketch of future developments on creation of Armenia-2 (Western Armenia).



First of all, the superpowers according to the international law will develop a legal document on restoring the rights of population of Armenian decent; who managed to escape the Genocide and now are leaving abroad.



It may look like:



1) Western Armenia should join EU immediately, in order to ensure full protection of the civil rights and democracy according to EU prevailing standards, regardless of race and creed of the people de facto living there.

2) Condemnation of the Genocide and taking back the Western Armenia from Turkey would not affect in any way the interests of the population: Kurds, Armenian’s converted to Islam, Turks and people of other nationalities. It would be very beneficial for them because: they would not any more undergo repressions and discrimination carried out by Turks against population of other Religions.

3) Armenians will be entitled to some small privileges, as compensation.

a) Armenians who escaped the Genocide and now are leaving abroad will be given priority right to get state owned (not private) land free of charge.

Some of not populated areas will be joined to RoA.

c) RoA will be given right to use Black See ports free of charge and transportation through Armenia-2 would not be taxed for RoA citizens.

d) And some reasonable percentage of state budget should be allocated as compensation to the Armenians who escaped the Genocide.



Thus creation of the new Armenian state would not harm in any way the people currently populating the Western Armenia.



Regards,



Gevorg

[annannimusss]

GevorgP,this will not work.You need to move all the Kurds and Turks out and give the Kurds an independent homeland somewhere near the Armenia of Sevres which is what is rightfully ours.

[Hellektor]

GevorgP,this will not work.You need to move all the Kurds and Turks out and give the Kurds an independent homeland somewhere near the Armenia of Sevres which is what is rightfully ours.

The treaty of Sèvres envisages an autonomous Kurdistan on historic Armenian territory, south to the Armenia of Sèvres. Our task is pretty difficult: we need to be prepared for the day the Kurds reduce the Turkish state to rubbles. This means Armenia has to be as democratic (sorry for the use of this Hebrew term) as possible, the Armenian society free and prosperous and the Armenian army strong and technologically up to date. This can be achieved, just look at some small states who have powerful and modern armies.

Then, we'll have to come to an accord with the Kurds that they should erect their tents a little to the south, because an Armenia with 3 million Armenians and 10 million Kurds is no Armenia any more. Even then, they should be kindly reminded that the Armenians are the true landlords of the Kurdistan of Sèvres and should the Kurds succeed in getting their lands from their Muslim brethren in a distant future, they'll have to return the Armenian lands to their rightful owners. To achieve this, we must accomplish what I said. It's therefore important that Armenia improve as fast as it can. The present policy of the government is not bad at all only if they would be a bit more firm in the Artsakh issue.

I believe the potential is there. The most important being the fact that Armenia is a nation since thousands of years whereas a Kurdish nationality is yet to be developed. Only if the complementary policy of Armenia would continue to improve the image of Armenia in the Western eyes...

[irlandahay]

Dear Zartonk, Arpa and Hellektor,

Thanks a lot for your comments and comprehensive background information on the subject!

I agree that the percentage of Armenian population, in fact, was much higher 40%.
Gevorg

i dunno gevorg...

it sortof makes sense that the percentage of armenians leaving is less then that of azeris leaving. because most of the armenians in the are stayed, refusing to give up their homes and be butchered like their brothers to the west (im talking about 1915 of course).

therefore, it makes sense that azeris, having no such relation with the land or the history or its inhabitants, found it much easier to pack up and leave.

look at it this way, its like a kid that stole a chocolate bar and gets caught. he wants the chocolate, but hes ashamed of getting caught at it, so he willingly gives it up not to get into anymore trouble. in our case, the kid baught his chocolate and has had it for quite some time. its only natural that he doesnt want to cave and give his rightfully earned chocolate back just because someone thinks he stole it.

kinda gay example but you get it

[GevorgP]

Հողը սուրբ է — շիրիմն է մեր նախնյաց,

Հողն է պահում օրօրոցը մեր մանկաց,

Հողը զ•ոն սաղավարտ է պահապան,

Դրանից վեր չկա ոչ մի, ոչ մի բան:



Հողն է ծնում հողն է պահում ազ•երին,

Հողն է թաղում իրեն լքած ցեղերին,

Հողը սուրբ է — մատուռն է մեր ուխտի,

Հողը սուրբ է — փարոսն է պանդուխտի:



Հերոսների արյան •ինն է մեր հողը

Այդ արյունից էլ ան•ին է մեր հողը

Կայքից վեր է, կյանքից վեր է մեր հողը

Նախնյաց նվեր — պատվեր է մեր հողը:

[GevorgP]

Ձօն Հայաստանի


Հողը սուրբ է, դա շիրիմն է մեր նախնյաց,
Հողն է պահում օրօրոցը հայ մանկաց,
Հողը զգոն սաղավարտ է պահապան,
Դրանից վեր չկա ոչ մի, ոչ մի բան:


Հողն է ծնում հողն է պահում ազգերին,
Հողն է թաղում հող չպաշտող ցեղերին,
Հողը սուրբ է՝ եւ մատուռն է մեր ուխտի,
Հողը սուրբ է ու փարոսն է պանդուխտի:

Հերոսների արյան գինն է մեր հողը
Այդ արյունից էլ անգին է մեր հողը
Կայքից վեր է, կյանքից վեր է մեր հողը
Նախնյաց նվեր եւ պատվեր է մեր հողը:

[hosank]

my friends, let me tell you a little story about artsakh, naxichevan azeris and turkey and the soviet union.

first there was the Russian empire, Persia and the ottoman empire. Russia took over most armenian lands from the Iranians, yet ottoman turkey still controlled half of our fatherland. from there began the (linguistic separations of Armenians.btw)

Christian imperial Russia for a long time aspired to control the smaller Christian minorities of the caucasus and the northern middle east, such as Armenians, Ionian Greeks, Georgians, Assyrians and so on. (being the major Christian power in the region).

argument with turkey over these Christian peoples (russia seeking to protect them from Islamic turkey) led to several wars including the Crimean war. leading, in turn to an intense rivalry between the two nations that led to ww1.

here comes genocide, followed by Russian intervention, that pretty much saves what is left of Armenians in turkey. at this point, Turkish Armenia declares itself independent and is ruled by an interim directorate, in order to eventually join with an independent eastern Armenia in the first republic of Armenia. Russia defeats an army of a million turks.

Next we have the Bolshevik revolution in russia. russia then capitulates in the war, and begins it's own civil war. meanwhile, newly created azerbaijan begins to try and take over our artsax even though it has no particular claim to it. treaty of Sèvre guarantees Wilsonian Armenia to the Armenian republic. syunic, naxichevan and karabax at this time were under invasion by the tatar beasts.

at this point, the red army sweeps down the Caucasus, obviously, allied to the azeris...and takes over armenia from behind.

obviously later came ww2 and so on. turkey, who at the end of ww2 declared war on germany was actually secretly allied with germany and was supposed to take part in operation blue, but the german defeat at stalingrad stopped that from happening.
the cold war began soon after with turkey on the side of nato.

what we need to understand in this story is that turkey is the world's bitch. they were officially with nato, but underwent several pacts with the soviets, including the one where attaturk' army of islam took over our Wilsonian Armenia and so on. it was lobbying by turkey that gave azerbaijan our lands to the east. to negotiate peace, Stalin was not against giving armenian territory to the west to turkey, and then, under Turkish pressure, to literally give away artsax and naxichevan to azerbaijan, even though they were almost entirely populated by armenians. stalin did not stop the upcoming barbarism of the azeri turks towards the armenians. these lands were given to the Azeri SSR even though a high soviet council ruled 2 out of 3 that these lands are armenian and should stay that way. turkey also made sure that naxichevan should be extended to have a common border with azerbaijan.

many armenians refuse to believe that soviet communism was one of the most evil enemies of armenia, to the same extent as the turks, arabs, muslims...but it is true

next came armenian independence and the war in karabakh. here we should also note that the inferior azeris were actually communist even after the brakeup of the soviet union. im sure you all know this part of the story: armenians in azerbaijan were massacred, which led to the war, and liberation of armenian lands that were for many decades separated from the fatherland. obviously, during the war, the armenians who had not been exterminated in naxichevan till then were during the war. turkey also tried to invade.
but what ever, armenia won crushing victories after another. for every armenian soldier killed in the land, 5 turko-tatar-azeri invaders were slain.

armenia has today the largest military in the caucasus, more powerful than that of georgia and azerbaijan combined. if the azeri beast tried to come back for more, they will get it. in the words of an american security adviser, azerbaijan will run out of young men before armenia runs out of bullets.

we will once again take over naxichevan, our rightful land and then wilsonian armenia, and then, KILIKIa!

մերսի շատ Րաֆֆի

[annannimusss]

One day in my lifetime I belive we will at the very least get Nakhichevan back.I am only 17 so it might not happen soon but it will happen.

Edited by SakoPasha, 22 December 2006 - 12:09 AM.