84 replies to this topic

[Zara]

Today I was talking to one of my friends and I found out that her parents arranged her marriage for her. She was completely mortified and dreading the thought of getting married to someone she didn't know. My great grandmother had an arranged marriage and she got married when she was 14 or 15 years old. She grew to love and respect her husband very much and vice versa. By the way, he was a young French professor.

What do you guys think of these kinds of marriages? Are they successful? Repressive? Personally, I don't really know what to make of it so I wanted to know what you guys thought.

[nairi]

It's easier than having to choose for yourself, but repressive if neither party is attracted to the other, or if one of the parties simply doesn't want to get married to anyone.

Although my grandmother never regretted her arranged marriage with my grandfather, she did always stress that she envied her children and grandchildren's opportunity to choose.

[Nvard]

you know what's funny about arranged marriages- you actually never know whether it's going to be a successful one or not.
same thing with the so-called free choice.It looks like you make your choice,you use your opportunity, but in the ned you break up.And somebody, whose marriage has been arranged is living happily.
It's all God's will

[Em]

Call me crazy , but I have recently changed my mind about it. With one out of three marriages destined to end in divorce, I have come to the realization that too much freedom isn't such a good thing. You get so caught up in the"my life, my choice, I will do as I please" that you lose sight of the purpose of the institution of marriage.

I would like to share an excerpt from an inspirational book I just finished. I will type up the relative portion tomorow.

[ExtraHye]

I’ve seen both arranged and not arranged marriages go bad. But how ever it’s smarter to have your kids pick their lifetime partner out of their own will. However there is a huge difference between the two:

If they start an unsuccessful family with an arranged marriage then they will be blaming their parents for this.

But how ever if they find their own wife/husband then they have no one to blame but themselves.

I always here people say how marriages lasted longer when they where arranged and that more people get divorces now then they did then. I don’t agree with this, the reason that hardly anybody got a divorce in the past is because woman weren’t as independent as they are now. We even have a woman running for president, but they couldn’t even vote in the olden days.

[Harut]

the institution of marriage is outdated and should be abolished altogether...

[Takoush]

the institution of marriage is outdated and should be abolished altogether...

Suppose you are right, then people will have illegitimate children all over the place?

I mean, I see that in most respects marriages aren't working very well, I must say you do have a point; but I don't agree on three points:

1) Diseases

2) Children; and

3) The will of God; if you believe in God.

Edited by Takoush, 21 February 2008 - 09:19 PM.

[Eva]

Suppose you are right, then people will have illegitimate children all over the place?

I mean, I see that in most respects marriages aren't working very well, I must say you do have a point; but I don't agree on three points:

1) Diseases

2) Children; and

3) The will of God; if you believe in God.

he doesn't

[nairi]

Why illegitimate? There are other ways to legitimize children, such as claiming them before the law. It's an option that couples in Holland have. And even then I'm left wondering: how can a human being be illegitimate? Especially one who had no say in its conception and birth. The same goes for "illegal" immigrants in my book. How can a human being be illegal?

[Takoush]

Why illegitimate? There are other ways to legitimize children, such as claiming them before the law. It's an option that couples in Holland have. And even then I'm left wondering: how can a human being be illegitimate? Especially one who had no say in its conception and birth. The same goes for "illegal" immigrants in my book. How can a human being be illegal?

You know Nairi, I was speaking from what I have heard all my life hearing my elders talking about this and that illegitimate child and so and so. I see your point now when there are numerous women nowadays that are single moms and nobody's saying their children are legitimate or not or whatever. Usually Armenians and Greeks in that nature do. Personally, at this stage of my life I'm beginning to wonder about the institution of marriage also.

Talking now about immigrants; governments say that for instance in the U.S. there are a lot of "illegal" immigrants that come here without going through "red tape", meaning having a kin to apply for them then the whole process of application processes and physicals that for instance, I had to endure before being able to make my move from Canada to the U.S. Now people who just sneak in this country without all those legalities and processes are called "illegal" immigrants.

Edited by Takoush, 21 February 2008 - 11:05 PM.

[Ashot]

Ok peoples - The biggest issue today is the children that have so much "independence", now this might sound funny, but this whole thing is making them blind - leaving two options, getting merried to a guy that they think is the perfect one, but end up divorcing = 1 out of 1000 families end up in a good marriage! the other one is they go out with so many guys that now they don't know who to choose, and they end up being very picky and not finding the right person untill their late 20's or early 30's and end up marrying or not...

One of the biggest problems we are facing today is children growing up without a mother or a father. It is very hard to raise a child when you are a single parent. Your child grows up with nanny, grandparents, not seeing you as much as needed, and doesn't get the family influence as much as needed, especially in the early stages of life!

On the other hand, fixed marriages, as far as I know at least 80% of them work out just fine, especially when they are arranged as early as 16-19 years old!!! the couple get's used to one another, becoming a family!!! Besides, no one's parents would want the bad for their children, no matter how bad the parent is, they always want the best for their own children!!!

Basically "love matches start out hot and grow cold, while arranged marriages start out cold and grow hot" - not in every case but most cases!!!

[Harut]

Ok peoples - The biggest issue today is the children that have so much "independence", now this might sound funny, but this whole thing is making them blind - leaving two options, getting merried to a guy that they think is the perfect one, but end up divorcing = 1 out of 1000 families end up in a good marriage! the other one is they go out with so many guys that now they don't know who to choose, and they end up being very picky and not finding the right person untill their late 20's or early 30's and end up marrying or not...

One of the biggest problems we are facing today is children growing up without a mother or a father. It is very hard to raise a child when you are a single parent. Your child grows up with nanny, grandparents, not seeing you as much as needed, and doesn't get the family influence as much as needed, especially in the early stages of life!

On the other hand, fixed marriages, as far as I know at least 80% of them work out just fine, especially when they are arranged as early as 16-19 years old!!! the couple get's used to one another, becoming a family!!! Besides, no one's parents would want the bad for their children, no matter how bad the parent is, they always want the best for their own children!!!

Basically "love matches start out hot and grow cold, while arranged marriages start out cold and grow hot" - not in every case but most cases!!!

fixed marriages work out better in terms of lesser divorces, because people who are pushed into that kind of marriages are people who are generally "hnazand"/"hamakerpvogh"/"anvoghnashar"/etc people who, no matter how bad their situation is, are afraid to do anything about it... there is no way back or out of it... so they stick to the marriage their parents chose for them and that's the end of story... because for them, the other option is jumping from the clip, just like Maro did...

[Harut]

Suppose you are right, then people will have illegitimate children all over the place?

how can children be "illegitimate" if there is no such thing as marriage to produce "legitimate" children?

[Anonymouse]

fixed marriages work out better in terms of lesser divorces, because people who are pushed into that kind of marriages are people who are generally "hnazand"/"hamakerpvogh"/"anvoghnashar"/etc people who, no matter how bad their situation is, are afraid to do anything about it... there is no way back or out of it... so they stick to the marriage their parents chose for them and that's the end of story... because for them, the other option is jumping from the clip, just like Maro did...

Maybe you forget that to even have any successful relations, whether friendship or marriage, involves biting your tongue more often than letting it loose on the other side. After all, most of our loving relations (be they with friends, parents, etc.) are not for their perfections, but their faults. If people viewed even friendship, nevermind marriage, as an endeavor in picking the faults we are most comfortable with and willing to tolerate, then it wouldn't seem that bad. But people are full of shyt, thinking in abstractions all the damn time. Of course, someone will think they are so intelligent and point out, "but what if they are just soooo faulty," well, this is where I say differences are in degrees, not in kinds.

The logical implication of what you seem to prescribe based on the notion of being afraid to do anything about it is a throw away society that breaks down at the slightest sight of disagreeable behavior or behavior contrary to our supposed lofty goals and ideals.

[Harut]

Maybe you forget that to even have any successful relations, whether friendship or marriage, involves biting your tongue more often than letting it loose on the other side. After all, most of our loving relations (be they with friends, parents, etc.) are not for their perfections, but their faults. If people viewed even friendship, nevermind marriage, as an endeavor in picking the faults we are most comfortable with and willing to tolerate, then it wouldn't seem that bad. But people are full of shyt, thinking in abstractions all the damn time. Of course, someone will think they are so intelligent and point out, "but what if they are just soooo faulty," well, this is where I say differences are in degrees, not in kinds.

The logical implication of what you seem to prescribe based on the notion of being afraid to do anything about it is a throw away society that breaks down at the slightest sight of disagreeable behavior or behavior contrary to our supposed lofty goals and ideals.

that's all good and dandy, but has nothing to do with what i was pointing out, which was the divorce statistics and how people use it to justify arranged marriages...
being able to choose your life partner and "biting your tongue" to work out the relationship has nothing to do with being told who to marry and psychologically not being able to do anything about it when things get out of hand...

[Takoush]

Maybe you forget that to even have any successful relations, whether friendship or marriage, involves biting your tongue more often than letting it loose on the other side. After all, most of our loving relations (be they with friends, parents, etc.) are not for their perfections, but their faults. If people viewed even friendship, nevermind marriage, as an endeavor in picking the faults we are most comfortable with and willing to tolerate, then it wouldn't seem that bad. But people are full of shyt, thinking in abstractions all the damn time. Of course, someone will think they are so intelligent and point out, "but what if they are just soooo faulty," well, this is where I say differences are in degrees, not in kinds.

The logical implication of what you seem to prescribe based on the notion of being afraid to do anything about it is a throw away society that breaks down at the slightest sight of disagreeable behavior or behavior contrary to our supposed lofty goals and ideals.

Hi Anon inchbes es?

Yes there's a great deal of Americans and others too who subscribe to what you're saying above (being throw away society); but what do you say when a partner for instance;

Stops working at his/her marriage and regards his/her family first and utmost and puts his/her spouse way in the back seat because he/she does not carry the same blood in his/her veins? Especially when the in-laws treat the spouse badly? Or

If he is a notorious womanizer, or

he has sickness such as a horrible gambling problem, or

a very heavy drinking problem, etc. etc. etc.

I would say;

In the first scenario the resentment stays for always and the relationship falters.

In the second scenario, well if the spouse does it only once, maybe she/he can forgive and try to forget about it; but if it keeps coming up again and again; with the scary diseases, it's up to the spouse to let it go and separate or some few people tolerate it.

In the third scenario, when a spouse (usually men) have a heavy gambling problem they can seek help and hopefully can be cured mostly.

In the fourth scenario, again AAA and if the spouse is willing the heavy drinking will be mostly cured when they seek help.



Other things go wrong in marriages too; but I put out a few of the above that would be reasons for separation or divorce. In my view I think there are very few marriages that are really successful and happy. Of course if a couple are free spirited couple, they both make money and they are both in control of themselves and their destiny, they have guts and they don't regard much that their children will suffer to some extent about the divorce or the separation. But I agree to the fact that in pre-arranged marriages, most of them cease to have spine/guts to separate even when things go wrong.

Edited by Takoush, 22 February 2008 - 12:51 PM.

[Anonymouse]

that's all good and dandy, but has nothing to do with what i was pointing out, which was the divorce statistics and how people use it to justify arranged marriages...
being able to choose your life partner and "biting your tongue" to work out the relationship has nothing to do with being told who to marry and psychologically not being able to do anything about it when things get out of hand...

I think it does have everything to do with it, regardless of what people use to justify arranged marriages. By insinuating these people don't get a divorce because they have no spine or will take anything, you are implying that they are biting their tongue and taking it therefore having a lower divorce rate, whereas people who chose to get married, have more of a backbone and therefore know when to say "Enough" and thereby get a divorce.

You brought this up, not me. I am merely taking what you stated to its logical implication.

[Anonymouse]

Hi Anon inchbes es?

Yes there's a great deal of Americans and others too who subscribe to what you're saying above (being throw away society); but what do you say when a partner for instance;

Stops working at his/her marriage and regards his/her family first and utmost and puts his/her spouse way in the back seat because he/she does not carry the same blood in his/her veins? Especially when the in-laws treat the spouse badly? Or

If he is a notorious womanizer, or

he has sickness such as a horrible gambling problem, or

a very heavy drinking problem, etc. etc. etc.

I would say;

In the first scenario the resentment stays for always and the relationship falters.

In the second scenario, well if the spouse does it only once, maybe she/he can forgive and try to forget about it; but if it keeps coming up again and again; with the scary diseases, it's up to the spouse to let it go and separate or some few people tolerate it.

In the third scenario, when a spouse (usually men) have a heavy gambling problem they can seek help and hopefully can be cured mostly.

In the fourth scenario, again AAA and if the spouse is willing the heavy drinking will be mostly cured when they seek help.



Other things go wrong in marriages too; but I put out a few of the above that would be reasons for separation or divorce. In my view I think there are very few marriages that are really successful and happy. Of course if a couple are free spirited couple, they both make money and they are both in control of themselves and their destiny, they have guts and they don't regard much that their children will suffer to some extent about the divorce or the separation. But I agree to the fact that in pre-arranged marriages, most of them cease to have spine/guts to separate even when things go wrong.

So in your example, if the people were married because of an arranged marriage, I would say they would have no excuse to have chosen such partners, but in a free choice world, my question would be, why did women choose to be with such men to begin with? I cannot blame those men any more than I blame those women who choose them, and then they turn around and talk about how much of a creep he is, or what not.

Those choices you listed are pretty much grounds for divorce, but most people divorce or separate for many other stupid reasons. And besides, if I were a chick I'd never make that choice anyway because most of these women who choose these "jerks" have what I have railed against for ages, this notion of changing the guy or thinking he will change for them or what have you because they believe their vagina is a magical vagina that this guy will surely change all his life for! Oh brother. And when you give people choice, they choose the worst of the worst and complain about it. When you arrange a marriage, they end up with someone good and solid and they complain about it.

[Harut]

I think it does have everything to do with it, regardless of what people use to justify arranged marriages. By insinuating these people don't get a divorce because they have no spine or will take anything, you are implying that they are biting their tongue and taking it therefore having a lower divorce rate, whereas people who chose to get married, have more of a backbone and therefore know when to say "Enough" and thereby get a divorce.

You brought this up, not me. I am merely taking what you stated to its logical implication.

i see a very fine line between "biting your tongue" (especially knowingly) to maintain a relationship and not being able to do anything about it when "danak@ voskorin hasnel"...

[gamavor]

I personaly don't see anything wrong with arranged marriages, esp. for people like us that live among foreigners.