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STUDY BACKS 5TH-CENTURY HISTORIAN'S DATE FOR FOUNDING OF ARMENIA


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#1 Yervant1

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 09:09 AM

STUDY BACKS 5TH-CENTURY HISTORIAN'S DATE FOR FOUNDING OF ARMENIA

New York Times
March 10 2015

By NICHOLAS WADEMARCH 10, 2015

Movses Khorenatsi, a historian in the fifth century, wrote that his
native Armenia had been established in 2492 B.C., a date usually
regarded as legendary though he claimed to have traveled to Babylon
and consulted ancient records. But either he made a lucky guess or he
really did gain access to useful data, because a new genomic analysis
suggests that his date is entirely plausible.

Geneticists have scanned the genomes of 173 Armenians from Armenia
and Lebanon and compared them with those of 78 other populations
from around the world. They found that the Armenians are a mix of
ancient populations whose descendants now live in Sardinia, Central
Asia and several other regions. This formative mixture occurred from
3000 to 2000 B.C., the geneticists calculated, coincident with Movses
Khorenatsi's date for the founding of Armenia.

Toward the end of the Bronze Age, when the mixture was in process,
there was considerable movement of peoples brought about by increased
trade, warfare and population growth. After 1200 B.C., the Bronze
Age civilizations of the eastern Mediterranean suddenly collapsed,
an event that seems to have brought about the isolation of Armenians
from other populations. No significant mixing with other peoples
after that date can be detected in the genomes of living Armenians,
the geneticists said.

The isolation was probably sustained by the many characteristic
aspects of Armenian culture. Armenians have a distinctive language and
alphabet, and the Armenian Apostolic Church was the first branch of
Christianity to become established as a state religion, in A.D. 301,
anticipating that by the Roman empire in A.D. 380.

The researchers also see a signal of genetic divergence that developed
about 500 years ago between western and eastern Armenians. The date
corresponds to the onset of wars between the Ottoman and Safavid
dynasties and the division of the Armenian population between the
Turkish and Persian empires.

"This DNA study confirms in general outline much of what we know
about Armenian history," said Hovann Simonian, a historian of Armenia
affiliated with the University of Southern California.

The geneticists' team, led by Marc Haber and Chris Tyler-Smith of
the Sanger Institute, near Cambridge in England, see long-isolated
populations like that of the Armenians as a means of reconstructing
population history.

Armenians share 29 percent of their DNA ancestry with Otzi, a man
whose 5,300-year-old mummy emerged in 1991 from a melting Alpine
glacier. Other genetically isolated populations of the Near East,
like Cypriots, Sephardic Jews and Lebanese Christians, also share
a lot of ancestry with the Iceman, whereas other Near Easterners,
like Turks, Syrians and Palestinians, share less. This indicates
that the Armenians and other isolated populations are closer than
present-day inhabitants of the Near East to the Neolithic farmers
who brought agriculture to Europe about 8,000 years ago.

The geneticists' paper was posted last month on bioRxiv, a digital
library for publishing scientific articles before they appear in
journals. Dr. Tyler-Smith, the senior author of the genetics team,
said he could not discuss their results for fear of jeopardizing
publication in a journal that he did not name.

http://www.nytimes.c...of-armenia.html
 

 



#2 Arpa

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 01:42 PM

Good find Yervant :ap:
Those who can see and read the Armenian text, also look here.
http://www.yerakouyn.com/?p=74943
Where it is attested that Khorentsi was a much read, much studied and much traveled consummate scientist, historian and histriographer..
Despite my past trepidations about his credentials of Khorenats-s professional historiography, see what is said below.
http://www.yerakouyn...khorenatsi.jpeg

khorenatsi.jpeg
 

Նորագոյն ծննդական (genetic) հետազօտութիւններով ապացուցուած է հայ ժողովուդի ծագման թուագրութեան իսկութիւնը, որ 5-­րդ դարուն տուած է պատմահայր Մովսէս Խորենացին: «Արմենպրես»-­ի փոխանցմամբ, այս մասին կը յայտնէ ամերիկեան «Նիւ Եորք Թայմզ» պարբերականը:
Մովսէս Խորենացի իր «Հայոց պատմութիւն» աշխատութեան մէջ գրի առնուած աւանդազրոյցին մէջ կը նշուի, որ հայ ժողովուրդը ծագած է Ք.ա. 2492 թուականին: Թէեւ պատմիչը նշած է, որ ճանապարհորդած է Բաբելոն եւ ուսումնասիրած հնադարեան աղբիւրները, այդ ժամանակաշրջանը երկար տարիներ կը համարուէր առասպելական: Սակայն գիտնականներու կատարած վերջին հետազօտութիւնները կ՛ապացուցեն Խորենացիի պատմութեան արժանահաւատութիւնը:
Ինչպէս կը հաղորդէ «Նիւ Եորք Թայմզ»-ը, ծննդագէտները զննած են Հայաստանի եւ Լիբանանի 173 հայերու ծիները եւ անոնք համեմատած են աշխարհի այլ 78 ազգերու ծիներուն հետ: Պարզուած է, որ հայերը խառնուրդ են հնագոյն ցեղախումբերու, որոնց ժառանգները այսօր կը բնակին Սարտինիոյ, Կեդրոնական Ասիոյ եւ քանի մը այլ տարածաշրջաններու մէջ: Ծինային ուսումնասիրութիւններուն համաձայնˋ այդ ժողովուդներու միախառնումը տեղի ունեցած է Քրիստոսէն 3000-­2000 տարի առաջ, ինչ որ լիովին կը համընկնի Մովսէս Խորենացիի տուած թուագրութեան հետ:
Պրոնզէ դարու վերջը, երբ ցեղախումբերու միաձուլումը դեռ ընթացքի մէջ էր, տեղի ունեցած է ժողովուրդներու տեղաշարժˋ պայմանաւորուած առեւտուրով, պատերազմներով եւ ժողովրդագրական աճով: Իսկ Ք. ա. 1200 թուականէն ետք Միջերկրական ծովու արեւելեան ափի պրոնզեդարեան քաղաքակրթութիւններու անսպասելի անկումը, կարծես թէ, յանգեցուցած է միւս ժողովուրդներէն հայերու մեկուսացումին: Յետագայ տարիներուն հայերու եւ միւս ժողովուրդներու միջեւ էական միաձուլումներ տեղի չեն ունեցած, որուն մասին կը վկայեն ծննդական հետազօտութիւնները: Այս մեկուսացումը պայմանաւորած է հայկական մշակութային շարք մը առանձնայատկութիւններˋ լեզուն, այբուբենը, կրօնը:
Բացի այդ, ծննդական հետազօտութիւնները շեղումներ ցոյց տուած են հայկական արեւելեան եւ արեւմտեան հատուածներու միջեւ, որ յառաջացած է 500 տարի առաջˋ Օսմանեան եւ Սեֆեան կայսրութիւններու միջեւ բռնկուած պատերազմի սկիզբը, երբ Հայաստանը բաժանուեցաւ թրքական եւ պարսկական կայսրութիւններու միջեւ:
«Այս ՏՆԹ ­ուսումնասիրութիւնը ընդհանուր գիծերով կը հաստատէ հայկական պատմութեան մասին մեր գիտելիքները»,-­ըսած է Հարաւային Քալիֆորնիոյ համալսարանի պատմաբան Յովհան Սիմոնեանը:
Հետազօտողներու հետաքրքրական բացայայտումներէն է նաեւ այն, որ հայերը շատ աւելի մօտ եղած են 8 հազար տարի առաջ գիւղատնտեսութիւնը Եւրոպա բերած նէոլիթեան երկրագործներուն, քան Միջին Արեւելքի ներկայիս բնակիչներուն:
Հետազօտութեան արդիւնքները անցած ամիս հրապարակուած են bioRxiv թուայնացուած գրադարանին մէջ:



#3 Yervant1

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:50 AM

In some ways, as if he is talking about today!

 Fifth Century Historian Describes

        eplorable State of Armenian Society
       
        By Harut Sassounian
        Publisher, The California Courier
 
A friend recently sent me an excerpt written in the 5th Century by historian Movses Khorenatsi in which he described the deplorable societal conditions in ancient Armenia.
My friend commented: “St. Movses could have easily written these words about our Armenian clergy, leaders, church, organizations, judges, institutions and us today in 2017 as he did in the 5th Century. So what has changed in 1,600 years? What will change? What if nothing changes? What if this is who and what we are? The greatest challenge we face as Armenians is how to survive and succeed on the world stage in spite of ourselves and not give up hope. Because despite the worst of our nature that St. Movses describes, somehow this small nation found a way to survive to this day. Let’s not lament over Armenia. Let’s rejoice over our children, grandchildren and the bright future that each of us can create for our nation.”
The quotation below is from Movses Khorenatsi’s trailblazing book, “History of the Armenians.” The chapter is titled, “Lament over the removal of the Armenian throne from Arsacid Family and of the archbishopric from the family of St. Gregory.” The book has been translated from Armenian into English by Prof. Robert W. Thomson of Harvard University. I have added in brackets a few clarifications to the translation.
Movses Khorenatsi wrote:
“I lament over you Armenia; I lament over who you are superior to all the nations of the north. For your king and priest, counselor and teacher, have been removed. Peace has been disturbed, disorder has taken root, orthodoxy has been shaken, and heresy has strengthened through ignorance.
“I pity you, church of Armenia, which has lost the splendor of the sanctuary and has been deprived of the noble pastor and his companion. No longer do I see your rational flock pastured in a verdant place and by peaceful waters nor gathered in a fold and protected from wolves, but scattered to the wilderness and precipices. ….
“The teachers are ignorant and presumptuous, taking honor by themselves and not called by God, elected by money and not by the [Holy] Spirit; lovers of gold and envious, they have abandoned gentleness, where God dwells, and have become wolves, tearing their own flocks.
“The religious are hypocritical, ostentatious, vainglorious, lovers of honor rather than lovers of God.
“The [senior] clergy are proud, slothful, frivolous, lazy, haters of the arts and instructive words, lovers of commerce and buffoonery.
“The students are lazy to study and eager to teach; they are theologians before their examinations [before they finish their studies].
“The laity are arrogant, insubordinate, blusterers, loafers, topers [drunks], pernicious, and they flee their patrimonies.
“The soldiers are cowards, false boasters, hating their weapons, negligent, lovers of ease, intemperate, thieves, drunkards, marauders, imitators of brigands.
“The princes are rebellious, companions of thieves, robbers [bribable], rapacious [greedy], avaricious, grasping, plunderers, despoilers of the land, depraved, likeminded with their subjects [servants].
“The judges are inhuman, false, deceitful, venal, [not protectors of rights] ignorant of the law, volatile, contentious.
“And [in general], love and shame have been entirely removed from all….”
“The kings are cruel and evil rulers, imposing heavy and onerous burdens and giving intolerable commands. Governors do not [keep the order] correct disorders and are unmerciful. Friends are betrayed and enemies strengthened. Faith is sold for this vain life. Brigands have come in abundance and from all sides. Houses are sacked and possessions ravaged. There is bondage for the foremost and prison for the famous. There is exile abroad for the nobility and innumerable outrages for the common people. Cities are captured and fortresses destroyed; towns are ruined and buildings burned. There are famines without end and every kind of [epidemic] illness and death. Piety has been forgotten and expectation is for hell….”
My friend who sent me this “lament” is comparing Movses Khorentasi’s description of the deplorable state in Armenia 1,600 years ago to today’s conditions in general both in Armenia and the Diaspora! Of course, one cannot generalize to everyone in Armenian society. There are respectable exceptions in every segment of our society, among the teachers, clergy, military, students, judges, and rulers.
I agree with my friend when he expresses the hope that our nation will survive despite all the shortcomings and setbacks, and despite all enemies inside and outside of the country, as it has for centuries since Movses Khorentatsi wrote his highly critical observations!

 


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#4 MosJan

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:53 PM

history repeats itself, but we never learn 


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