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Baron Garen V Paron Karen

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#1 Arpa



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Posted 22 September 2004 - 01:22 PM

Paron Karen or Baron Garen?
How about Oryord Karen?

We read about Paron/Baron here;

The westerners write and pronounce "garen", the easterners write and pronoiunce "karen". To dispel confusion, we are talking about the masculine Armenian name as opposed to the European Karen , a girl's name. Further, to minimize the confusion we had tore fashion a girls' name from it as "Karineh". Regardless, it is still confusing specially when we write it in the Latin alphabet.

I supsect that this name/word has gone through a silmilar fate as Baron/Paron.

A bit of history;
Circa 14 AD, Arshavir the king of Persia, at this juncture died, leaving three sons, Artaces, Caren and Suren... Artaces, being the eldest, naturally , was the heir to the throne but Caren and Suren contested and each of them founded petty kingdoms known as Carenian Pahlavis and Surenian Pahlavis. Eventually the Surenians prevailed and their legacy continued all the way to the times of Lousavorich and St. Sahak who were both of Pahlavi ancestry and were known as Parthav/Partev.

Not much is known about the Carenian Pahlavs except in passing.

So if Karen/Garen is from Caren why all the confusion?
Once again let us read the above article about Paron/Baron.

The correct transliteration of caren into Armenian would be gim-ayb-re-ye-nu but it seems at times some people when they heard the sound of "gim" would automatically interpret it as "gen/ken", wetern speakers do this as a rule, just like in the case of baron/paron. So, if we spell "caren" as ken-ayb-re-nu, the eastern speakers will pronounce it as "karen" and naturally transliterate it (into English) as Karen.

In my opinion that name should sound as "garen" and to correct that we should probably go back to the original "caren" and transliterate it back (to the Armenian) as "gim-ayb-re-nu" In so doing Caren will sound like "garen" and the gender issue will resolve itself.

What do say Baron Karen/Garen and oryord Karineh/Garineh??

PS. Does the town of Garin/Karin/Erzrum have anything to do with Caren Pahlav?

#2 vkarenpahlav


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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:05 PM

Although I can not answer your question exactly but I think that I can talk a bit about my clan, Karen-Pahlav.
My name is Vafa Karen-Pahlav and I am a member of Karen-Pahlav clan. All my ancestors lived in Hamedan and Nahavand and they were all Zoroastrians until about 100 years ago, one of our ancestors converted to Bahai faith; this means I am a Bahai too. 
Karen is made up of two parts Kar(short for Karzar which means battlefield) and en part (just like er in English e.g. farm and farmer); therefore Karen means Warrior. The Pahlav part means of Parthian origin. It is claimed by my ancestors that we are descendent of Kaveh the black smith; Karen is the son of Kaveh and is considered as a Pahlavan and hero in Shahnameh. On the other hand, from historical evidences, we are descendent of Parthian kings.
There were also a branch of our clan in Armenia but from what I know they no longer exist or perhaps changed their surname; anyway we have had no contact with them for generations.

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