66 replies to this topic

[aSoldier]

Do I think God Exist?NO
I find it almost laughable the whole Adam/Eve story.When a earthquake happens,innocent get slaughter,kids getting cancer where is GOD?If God created people he/she/it did a horrible job.Too many defects.One can argue those defects were in place for a reason but I am not buying.
God is a creation for our ultra ego and nothing else.

Ahh yet again we are faced with same old questions...judging by your posts you know very little about god and yet you think you understand him and even tell us why he exists..wow those are some pretty big assumptions..if he did such a bad job why dont you take over?

[Armat]

Ahh yet again we are faced with same old questions...judging by your posts you know very little about god and yet you think you understand him and even tell us why he exists..wow those are some pretty big assumptions..if he did such a bad job why dont you take over?

True.I never claimed to know God.I guess I am unfortunate category.I have to overcome a lot to believe myths like Adams/Eve,Floods (just about every culture has a disaster myth) Resurrection (idea copied from Egyptians and Egyptians copied from Assyrians and Sumarians)
See?Too much for me to overcome.

[Armat]

Domino and others check this out
See the Video here
Elegant Universe -- Can String Theory detect God?

[DominO]

Domino and others check this out
See the Video here
Elegant Universe -- Can String Theory detect God?

Armat, follow the link provided, it was a PBS series, we already discussed it in the past. Not really to do with a god though.

[DominO]

Ahh yet again we are faced with same old questions...judging by your posts you know very little about god and yet you think you understand him and even tell us why he exists..wow those are some pretty big assumptions..if he did such a bad job why dont you take over?

I laught at your professed knowledge.

[Sip]

I wonder with all the travels Sip did, once was he compleatly out of civilisation and out from light pollution to whatch the sky and see our galaxy so bright and wonder what evolutionary advantages could there be for our mystical fascination for anything beyond Earth.

Anytime I think about the Universe I end up realizing that "significance_of_humanity == 0". I find it strange that those who want to claim "God" created the Universe and the humans are also trying to make the case that God somehow has any interest in what we humans do.

If God created the Universe in all its vastness, he or she will not give a damn about something sooooooooooooooo utterly irrelevant and insignificant (in the big picture) as "humanity". We mean NOTHING in the scale of the Universe (let alone multiverse ).

Edited by Sip, 05 November 2007 - 05:23 PM.

[Armat]

Anytime I think about the Universe I end up realizing that "significance_of_humanity == 0". I find it strange that those who want to claim "God" created the Universe and the humans are also trying to make the case that God somehow has any interest in what we humans do.

If God created the Universe in all its vastness, he or she will not give a damn about something sooooooooooooooo utterly irrelevant and insignificant (in the big picture) as "humanity". We mean NOTHING in the scale of the Universe (let alone multiverse ).

Sip
I am not joking but this is far the best sharpest comment I read on God.Like it a lot.
Here is what I suspect we feel.
Universe and everything in it including humans are made with the same substanc but vibrate on different level and that substance say the building block of everything is in us as well so we do feel at weird interludes something profound but can't explain exactly.
I think Heaven,Hell and all the religious fantasy are man made that is figment of our imagination.Universe is a brutal place and like you said we are nothing in comparison.

[Ani]

Dear Armat, I've missed your posts on Hyeforum. Maybe because the old gang of you, Sasun, Domino, Eve, Edward, etc. are not around so much anymore, or have stopped posting altogether, visiting the forum is not the same anymore. I think we used to have many meaningful discussions (and some silly ones too, I admit!).

Your comment about Khachaturian's music prompted me to listen to one of his works - "Nocturne" from Masquerade. It's gorgeous.

Yes...Why?? Late again...??

[aSoldier]

I don't know if I should even try..

[Sip]

Ok I sat through the whole 7 minutes. What's the point of that video? The guy spent 7 minutes trying to argue that the universe must have had a beginning. Should I file this in the "well, duh!" folder?

By the way, the Big Bang theorists do a MUCH better job at making a case for the "finite universe" than the line of reasoning this guy was trying to pursue with this "infinite hotel" talk. Also, mathematically, he made some very questionable statements in my opinion.

For example, if x is infinite and y is infinite, he was making it sound like you can then conclude x and y are the same quantity which I think is a very dangerous (and wrong) way of thinking about infinity.

Edited by Sip, 06 November 2007 - 05:28 AM.

[Sip]

Sip
I am not joking but this is far the best sharpest comment I read on God.Like it a lot.

Glad you thought so

[Arpa]

I did something at work which I should of had done and I came home saying to myself "please God let me not get fired" h@?
Now that's coming from an atheist.
Weird ,very weird.I came close to dying twice in accidents and both times I also prayed for my life.Pathetic! There is something wrong here.One can't be an athist and remember God in crises or maybe its normal?Like last resort,hope etc.YeahYeahYeah but I could of prayed in front of my bicycle but didn't.
Sometimes we ourselves don't even know the answers.I simply don't know and can't explain my experiences of praying in crises.

I had written this a few days ago, but decided to sit on it hoping that this debate and its likes woud subside.
=====
This is ironically comical.
What does “atheist” mean? Is that not, by the mere invocation of “theo-god” an admission in itself that a concept of a god, be it Astuats, Jehovah, Allah and so on? There are a-theists who claim to reject the existence and there are anti-theists who are against. Yet, neither of them, be deniers or anti-s can shake off the concept . Did not, don’t they still, the communists, the most virulent atheists and anti-theists use such terms as “god-willing/”տէրը կամի, “god forbid/աստուածմի արասցէ” etc?.
The most ironic is that this thread is running parallel to the ones below.
Are not those who claim to be “atheists” in fact deniers of theology turned into politics and sectarianism turned into factionalism?
Contrary to the prevailing popular wisdom that “god created man in His image. Is it not that “man created god in his own image”? Look at all these “gods” created by people to fit their own agenda. .When some are talking about ecumenism, meaning communion with the likes of the Pope, the Anglican Bishop, the Rabbis and the Islamic Imams, the Coptic Bishop, the Hindu and the Buddhist, when they ignore the fact that our most holy bishops of one see don’t even say hello to the bishops of the other see (primacy-prelacy/). Of all the gods above, the Armenian god/astuats seems to be the most submissively “meek”, bowing to Allah and His butchers.. Extend our necks and wait to be decapitated .
Who is the primate and who the prelate? Which of them is the real heirs of the Apostles? Which of them just came back from a conference with God, Jesus and the Apostles? You mean to say that there were two Jesus-es and He had two separate sets of Apostles?
Here are at least two other parallel threads where the writers seem to know everything and more about the subject. Of course we know how.
Ecumenical;
http://hyeforum.com/...topic=17007&hl=
Apostolic Succession;
http://hyeforum.com/...topic=16968&hl=
There seems to be among us those who are so BOLD /ՀԱՄԱՐՁԱԿ to try and convince us that they have just come back from a conference with God, and that they know more about Jesus that He Himself did not know.
Speaking of which. Jesus himself was not so bold to contend that He knew everything. Look what He said;
Matt.5
[5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Երանի հեզերուն, վասնզի անոնք պիտի ժառանգեն երկիրը:
Did He mean that we cannot so bold to know everything, and that only the “meek” who profess to not know everything shall “inherit the earth”?
What did He mean by “meek”? Was He referring to Himself?
Did He have me in mind. Me, who is full of questions and very few, if any answers at all?
Then again. Why would I have any questions when I know that tomorrow the Sun will rise again !!
Who designed the Solar System?
Ask again!!!
Who/what made the sun?
Why spoil the fun on a gorgeous day at the beach wondering rather than enjoying the light and the warmth!!!

[DominO]

Anytime I think about the Universe I end up realizing that "significance_of_humanity == 0". I find it strange that those who want to claim "God" created the Universe and the humans are also trying to make the case that God somehow has any interest in what we humans do.

If God created the Universe in all its vastness, he or she will not give a damn about something sooooooooooooooo utterly irrelevant and insignificant (in the big picture) as "humanity". We mean NOTHING in the scale of the Universe (let alone multiverse ).

That's the thing, I spoke about feeling, you spoke about thinking. While we can measure the significance of humanity by its size compared to the multiverse, it is not the only way. Compare the significance of the first computer by its size compared with the most power laptop, is it a fair comparaison?

Just consider that you simulate a universe in your computer with in it intelligent beings, where will you be checking more? Obiously if there is countless numbers of intelligent beings you will miss most when checking in your computer. From a gods interest, we become significant only if some of our specificity, enters in that gods parametters of interest and significance.

Comming to your thinking, Sip, in the wild far from light polution, are you telling me that you felt nothing when watching the sky with all those thousands of starts and our galaxy? I am not asking you what you were thinking, just an impression a fealing.

Edited by Domino, 12 November 2007 - 01:20 PM.

[DominO]

Ok I sat through the whole 7 minutes. What's the point of that video? The guy spent 7 minutes trying to argue that the universe must have had a beginning. Should I file this in the "well, duh!" folder?

By the way, the Big Bang theorists do a MUCH better job at making a case for the "finite universe" than the line of reasoning this guy was trying to pursue with this "infinite hotel" talk. Also, mathematically, he made some very questionable statements in my opinion.

For example, if x is infinite and y is infinite, he was making it sound like you can then conclude x and y are the same quantity which I think is a very dangerous (and wrong) way of thinking about infinity.

Actually, eithere there is infinit number of universes, or the universe is infinitly big. It can not be one finit universe, or finit number of finit universe, or finit number of infinit universe. The finit has no place in ''everything there is.'' It defies logic unless someone believes that a god created everything, which push the problem elsewhere.

If the universe just appeared alone, then there is no reason that a universe can not appear alone. If it was because of the existance of certain parameters, there is not reason that those parameters could not exist again. If it happen again, there is no reason it won't happen again, again and over again for eternity... there is no reason there is any limit in the left neither the right side. Infinit..., either one infinit universe with various different bigbangs OR infinit numbers of universes.

BTW, the guy is misinterpreting Hilberg, the infinity notion presented there is similair to the one of Cantor, if you remember correctly, you were the one having submitted it. This infinity notion works when you have infinit numbers of thing in a finit space. Since 1/n = 2/n = 3/n... when n approches inf, no matter how big as long as it is finit it will be able to contain the same amount as another even bigger but still finit. This concept does not fit for a set in a boundless line (universe or whatever).

[Armat]

I had written this a few days ago, but decided to sit on it hoping that this debate and its likes woud subside.
=====
This is ironically comical.
What does “atheist” mean? Is that not, by the mere invocation of “theo-god” an admission in itself that a concept of a god, be it Astuats, Jehovah, Allah and so on? There are a-theists who claim to reject the existence and there are anti-theists who are against. Yet, neither of them, be deniers or anti-s can shake off the concept . Did not, don’t they still, the communists, the most virulent atheists and anti-theists use such terms as “god-willing/”տէրը կամի, “god forbid/աստուածմի արասցէ” etc?.
The most ironic is that this thread is running parallel to the ones below.
Are not those who claim to be “atheists” in fact deniers of theology turned into politics and sectarianism turned into factionalism?
Contrary to the prevailing popular wisdom that “god created man in His image. Is it not that “man created god in his own image”? Look at all these “gods” created by people to fit their own agenda. .When some are talking about ecumenism, meaning communion with the likes of the Pope, the Anglican Bishop, the Rabbis and the Islamic Imams, the Coptic Bishop, the Hindu and the Buddhist, when they ignore the fact that our most holy bishops of one see don’t even say hello to the bishops of the other see (primacy-prelacy/). Of all the gods above, the Armenian god/astuats seems to be the most submissively “meek”, bowing to Allah and His butchers.. Extend our necks and wait to be decapitated .
Who is the primate and who the prelate? Which of them is the real heirs of the Apostles? Which of them just came back from a conference with God, Jesus and the Apostles? You mean to say that there were two Jesus-es and He had two separate sets of Apostles?
Here are at least two other parallel threads where the writers seem to know everything and more about the subject. Of course we know how.
Ecumenical;
http://hyeforum.com/...topic=17007&hl=
Apostolic Succession;
http://hyeforum.com/...topic=16968&hl=
There seems to be among us those who are so BOLD /ՀԱՄԱՐՁԱԿ to try and convince us that they have just come back from a conference with God, and that they know more about Jesus that He Himself did not know.
Speaking of which. Jesus himself was not so bold to contend that He knew everything. Look what He said;
Matt.5
[5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Երանի հեզերուն, վասնզի անոնք պիտի ժառանգեն երկիրը:
Did He mean that we cannot so bold to know everything, and that only the “meek” who profess to not know everything shall “inherit the earth”?
What did He mean by “meek”? Was He referring to Himself?
Did He have me in mind. Me, who is full of questions and very few, if any answers at all?
Then again. Why would I have any questions when I know that tomorrow the Sun will rise again !!
Who designed the Solar System?
Ask again!!!
Who/what made the sun?
Why spoil the fun on a gorgeous day at the beach wondering rather than enjoying the light and the warmth!!!

Arpa great post.
I will get into it more time allowing.I sense that by rejecting the fables and myths one possibly is closer to God?By saying I am athist it seems closer then people on TV trying to convert thousands by religious indoctrination.
Universe is mysterious and it just could be that our brains are incapable to grasp its essence although I did practice Zen and I suspect the enlighten state comes closest for realization of God.Interesting in Zen practice one must renounce his ego as important.I felt this many times that our personality,likes,dislikes,thoughts are insignificant in front of these powerful force.
I will get into your other comments later

Not much sun today

[Armat]

Dear Armat, I've missed your posts on Hyeforum. Maybe because the old gang of you, Sasun, Domino, Eve, Edward, etc. are not around so much anymore, or have stopped posting altogether, visiting the forum is not the same anymore. I think we used to have many meaningful discussions (and some silly ones too, I admit!).

Your comment about Khachaturian's music prompted me to listen to one of his works - "Nocturne" from Masquerade. It's gorgeous.

Hi baby!!I missed this forum as well.I still love Aram even more.Weird I find his music powerful by every year I get older.Sometimes it takes time to appreciate great music.
Check this young girl playing Aram Khachaturian Sonatina 1959 one of my faves.She is unreal for her age.
Video playing

Have a great day

[Arpa]

Arpa great post.
I will get into it more time allowing.I sense that by rejecting the fables and myths one possibly is closer to God?By saying I am athist it seems closer then people on TV trying to convert thousands by religious indoctrination.
Universe is mysterious and it just could be that our brains are incapable to grasp its essence although I did practice Zen and I suspect the enlighten state comes closest for realization of God.Interesting in Zen practice one must renounce his ego as important.I felt this many times that our personality,likes,dislikes,thoughts are insignificant in front of these powerful force.
I will get into your other comments later

Not much sun today

Aha!
Finally the mask comes off.
You are as much an A-theist as I am A-rmenian.
I have known all along that your rejection of the "theo" was in fact what our so called churches, be they Apostolic, Orthodox, Cathlic or Protestant have made of HIM to fit their particular agenda and politics.
If, as you say you are an "atheist" why would you still look for HIM in places like Zen and other Zndans**?
** Whatever language it may be "zndan" means dungeon, tanjaran/darcharan, a dark place for punishment much like Khor Virap.

Edited by Arpa, 06 November 2007 - 01:11 PM.

[Anoushik]

Hi baby!!I missed this forum as well.I still love Aram even more.Weird I find his music powerful by every year I get older.Sometimes it takes time to appreciate great music.
Check this young girl playing Aram Khachaturian Sonatina 1959 one of my faves.She is unreal for her age.
Video playing

Have a great day

That Sonatina is such a fun piece. She's doing a good job!

[Anoushik]

Yes...Why?? Late again...??

Dear Ani, it was just the nostalgia talking. I practically matured with Hyeforum so looking back at those years is bittersweet. But that doesn't mean that we can't start creating new, meaningful, current discussions!

[Ani]

Dear Ani, it was just the nostalgia talking. I practically matured with Hyeforum so looking back at those years is bittersweet. But that doesn't mean that we can't start creating new, meaningful, current discussions!