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#21 MosJan

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 04:42 PM

US President Barack Obama did not fulfill his pledge 24.04.2009 22:58 GMT+04:00 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ US President Barack Obama did not fulfill his pledge. The President refrained from saying the Genocide word in his traditional address to US Armenians on April 24.

''As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide,'' Barack Obama said during his election campaign.



#22 yergatuni1

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE (vava @ Apr 6 2009, 09:27 PM)
Reading the last few posts - I keep asking myself, does anyone actually believe (I mean really believe, not just hopefulness) that the official US policy on AG recognition will change because of this man? He's an amazing orator, and he seemingly has an incredible ability to catalyze the american public towards change, BUT, the AG decision is hardly about your average "joe the plumber". It's a deep rooted political issue that has significant implications (foreign policy & otherwise). Ag recognition seems to have become a tool, (a pawn, a commodity, call it what you will) for negotiation. Apart from doing the "right" thing, what will Mr. Obama gain by supporting a policy change?


Obama seems to be another opportunist, his idealism seems to only serve his own interests, so it looks like we can't rely on him. However, we can never give up on striving to have the AG recognized. We'll keep on pressing for it, no matter who comes up to be president in the future. when we give up, then we've lost.

As a side note, I don't know what the 'bleep' our brilliant leaders in hayastan are doing, they think they can have normal relations with the turks without AG recognition - this is a fools hope.

#23 ExtraHye

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:15 PM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Apr 24 2009, 03:42 PM)
US President Barack Obama did not fulfill his pledge 24.04.2009 22:58 GMT+04:00 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ US President Barack Obama did not fulfill his pledge. The President refrained from saying the Genocide word in his traditional address to US Armenians on April 24.

''As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide,'' Barack Obama said during his election campaign.

Are you surprised? I'm not...

#24 DominO

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE (yergatuni1 @ Apr 24 2009, 09:49 PM)
Obama seems to be another opportunist, his idealism seems to only serve his own interests, so it looks like we can't rely on him. However, we can never give up on striving to have the AG recognized. We'll keep on pressing for it, no matter who comes up to be president in the future. when we give up, then we've lost.

As a side note, I don't know what the 'bleep' our brilliant leaders in hayastan are doing, they think they can have normal relations with the turks without AG recognition - this is a fools hope.


I'm satisfied with what he said, pay attention to this: I have consistently stated my own view of what occurred in 1915, and my view of that history has not changed. My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

This means: I'm saying it's a genocide and I believe the Turks are dumb enough to not see because they don't read footnotes.

He placed more pressures on himself than just saying the actual word, check this: My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts. If the ANCA had more intelligence it would stop yapping for an OK speech and will remind Obama of this promess when the resolution come to floor, since from his own words his interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

But can we really expect something intelligent from ANCA?


#25 Anoushik

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (DominO @ Apr 24 2009, 08:24 PM)
I'm satisfied with what he said, pay attention to this: I have consistently stated my own view of what occurred in 1915, and my view of that history has not changed. My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

Agreed.

#26 MosJan

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE (ExtraHye @ Apr 24 2009, 08:15 PM)
Are you surprised? I'm not...



surprised ? no
i just remember one of the logos that obamya's supporters was using, his picture and below was " hope"

so lets hope - we have 3+ years to hope



#27 Arpa

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 08:21 AM

You say the furks are dumb"". Look who is dumber. We have attacked every US president since Reagan, and we expect to endear the American people and government?
QUOTE (DominO @ Apr 25 2009, 04:24 AM)
I'm satisfied with what he said, pay attention to this: I have consistently stated my own view of what occurred in 1915, and my view of that history has not changed. My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

This means: I'm saying it's a genocide and I believe the Turks are dumb enough to not see because they don't read footnotes.

He placed more pressures on himself than just saying the actual word, check this: My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts. If the ANCA had more intelligence it would stop yapping for an OK speech and will remind Obama of this promess when the resolution come to floor, since from his own words his interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

But can we really expect something intelligent from ANCA?

I was not surprised, I did not hold my breath to hear the G word.!!!
Attacking Pres. Obama at this stage is tantamount to “throwing out the baby with the bathwatër”, and firing from the hip we are “shooting ourselves in the foot“. The more we attack him the more he may snuggle up with the “wolf”, specially when most of the others are praising him for not using the WORD..
I have said this so many times in so many different ways. We have spent and wasted so much time and effort, not to mention the finance on ONE WORD, so much so that we can’t see what is going on, what WORDS others are using. Every president in recent memory has used one WORD or other affirming the MURDER of a NATION, yet we are still playing silly word games, and in the process, if we may have won the “battle“ we are losing the “war“.
===
Look who is not happy with Pres. Obama’s WORDS.
A word of caution. The following article is from a boobjani site quoting a furkish paper. I will not cite the site, you can find it by using the pertinent keywords.
My apologies for the length, I could not decide what to cut out.

QUOTE
Hundreds of thousands of Turks and Armenians were killed in 1915

Turkish President Abdullah Gul has said while commenting upon US President`s written statement.
Turkish President Abdullah Gul criticized Saturday U.S. President Barack Obama for not mentioning slain Turks during 1915 incidents. Meanwhile, Turks in America praised Obama's April 24 statement, while Armenians expressed disappointment, Turkish Hurriyyet informs.

-There are some parts in the Obama's statement that I disagree with. There were hundreds of thousands of Turks and Muslims who lost their lives in 1915. Therefore, he should have shared the pain of everybody who lost their lives," Gul was quoted as saying by the state-run Anatolian Agency. His remarks are the first official reaction to Obama's statement.
Obama, who pledged to recognize the Armenian claims regarding the 1915 incident during presidential campaign, refrained to use the word "genocide" while describing the events in his annual April 24 statement to mark the "day of remembrance of the Armenian deaths."
Instead, he used the Armenian term for the killings, "Meds Yeghern" which has been variously translated into English as "The Great Calamity" or "Great Disaster." He also branded the events as "one of the great atrocities of the 20th century."
Turkish opposition also expressed its displeasure with Obama's statement. The leader of Nationalist Movement Party, or MHP, Devlet Bahceli, also said Saturday that the statement is "harsh and unacceptable".

Armenian American groups criticized Obama for not keeping a campaign pledge to stick to the genocide characterization, saying he chose to allow Armenians position on the 1915 incidents to remain a hostage to Turkey's threats.”
"I join with all Armenian Americans in voicing our sharp disappointment with President Obama's failure to honor his solemn pledge to recognize the Armenian Genocide," Ken Hachikians, head of the Armenian National Committee of America, said in a written statement posted on the organization's Web site.
"The president's statement today represents a retreat from his pledge and a setback to the vital change he promised to bring about in how America confronts the crime of genocide."
Obama's statement came a while after Turkey and Armenia announced that under Switzerland's mediation they have agreed on a comprehensive framework for the normalization of ties between the two neighboring countries that have not had diplomatic relations for more than a decade. U.S. President extended his support to the normalization process.

The Turkish Coalition of America, however, offered praise and thanked the President for refraining to use the word genocide by withstanding enormous political pressure in this respect.
"We applaud President Obama for deferring to historians to settle the long-standing debate over the events of 1915-1918," said Lincoln McCurdy, the group's president.
"This tragic period in history led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims and Christians alike. President Obama has sent a clear message to America and the world that his administration will not sacrifice long-term strategic allies for short-term political gains."
Obama has sent a clear message to America and the world that his Administration will not sacrifice a long-term strategic alliance with Turkey for an issue that cannot be resolved by third parties and is best addressed jointly by Turks and Armenians, the statement on the organization's Web site added.
The issue of the 1915 incidents is highly sensitive one both in Armenia and Turkey. Armenia , with the backing of the diaspora, claims up to 1.5 million Armenians were slaughtered in orchestrated killings in 1915.
Turkey rejects the claims, saying that 300,000 Armenians, along with at least as many Turks, died in civil strife that emerged when Armenians took up arms, backed by Russia, for independence in eastern Anatolia .
Turkey has offered to form a joint commission to investigate what happened in 1915 and has opened all official archives./Hurriyyet




#28 shiner

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE (vava @ Apr 7 2009, 03:27 AM)
Reading the last few posts - I keep asking myself, does anyone actually believe (I mean really believe, not just hopefulness) that the official US policy on AG recognition will change because of this man? He's an amazing orator, and he seemingly has an incredible ability to catalyze the american public towards change, BUT, the AG decision is hardly about your average "joe the plumber". It's a deep rooted political issue that has significant implications (foreign policy & otherwise). Ag recognition seems to have become a tool, (a pawn, a commodity, call it what you will) for negotiation. Apart from doing the "right" thing, what will Mr. Obama gain by supporting a policy change?


Great post!

But the Armenian masses are just as naive as the rest of the masses.

#29 Arpa

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 02:07 PM

I know. I know. I will not get many responses here as this thread is not under the general subject topic of the BIG G which 99.9% of our friend and foe readers solely and exclusively read.
Now that mehmet has taught us the Armenian language, another professor of the Armenian Language teaches us the meaning of “˙eghern”.
http://www.panorama..../2009/04/25/us/
A quote from the above.
QUOTE
Regarding Obama’s electoral promise, irrespective of the sensitive coloring with “genocide” word, Obama’s record is a positive one. If before the U.S. Presidents used “Armenian massacre” or “the greatest crime of the 20th century”, Obama used “Medz Eghern” twice in his speech. This means that the will to name the things with their names Obama has kept and he is conscious of the responsibility he has towards the Armenians.

Here we talked about the actual meaning of “˙eghern”, which among others simply means “murder“.
http://hyeforum.com/...9143&hl=yeghern
Yes, our furkish speaking ancestors, years before 1915 labeled the hamidians massacres of 1895 “buyuk ktal” to mean the “Great Massacre” and in 1909 they labeled it “Ädana ktal” to mean the Adana Massacres. And when 1915 arrived, having run out of words they called it “sefer birlik” (journey, vacation in the deserts of Der Zor) to mean Mass Deportations. Then came the BIG G-word, and we substituted all of the above with “the biggest of tem all “METS YEGHRN”.
Yet, us idiots who seem to know our language even less than mehmet and Barack are willingly dancing to their tunes.
Is not attacking and blockading Armenia for the past 90 years the “mets”est of “Mets Yeghern"”?
Where, at which school did Mr. Obama learn to recite the phrase “Medz Yeghern?
However, let us go easy on Mr. Obama. He seems to know the Armenian language better than many of us who know it as the G word, while some of us call it the K word as in "kenotsid. jester.gif

Edited by Arpa, 26 April 2009 - 01:17 AM.


#30 yergatuni1

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (DominO @ Apr 24 2009, 09:24 PM)
I'm satisfied with what he said, pay attention to this: I have consistently stated my own view of what occurred in 1915, and my view of that history has not changed. My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

This means: I'm saying it's a genocide and I believe the Turks are dumb enough to not see because they don't read footnotes.

He placed more pressures on himself than just saying the actual word, check this: My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts. If the ANCA had more intelligence it would stop yapping for an OK speech and will remind Obama of this promess when the resolution come to floor, since from his own words his interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

But can we really expect something intelligent from ANCA?


Only official acknowledgment of the evensts as Genocide has legal and real political implications. The rest of these references as 'terrible events' 'massacres' or 'calamities' even statements of Obama's 'personal opinions and feelings' don't matter. It just means the debate will go on without end. This allows the turks to just drag this out. What Obama is doing is leaving it to the turks and armenians to work it out. And the bad part about that is the Armenians have little leverage in dealing with the turks without official recognition. I don't agree with you, Obama said plainly he would recognize the Genocide, the ANCA has a right to show dissapointment...

#31 yergatuni1

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 10:10 AM

QUOTE (DominO @ Apr 24 2009, 10:24 PM)
I'm satisfied with what he said, pay attention to this: I have consistently stated my own view of what occurred in 1915, and my view of that history has not changed. My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

This means: I'm saying it's a genocide and I believe the Turks are dumb enough to not see because they don't read footnotes.

He placed more pressures on himself than just saying the actual word, check this: My interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts. If the ANCA had more intelligence it would stop yapping for an OK speech and will remind Obama of this promess when the resolution come to floor, since from his own words his interest remains the achievement of a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts.

But can we really expect something intelligent from ANCA?


Also, if he didn't recognize the genocide on April 24th, our most solemn day, do you think he will recognize it if it comes to the floor, with 'negotiations' under way between Armenia and the turks?, showing dissapointment does put pressure on Obama although I doubt it will help. I think you should pray for some intelligence from the Armenian government at this point....

#32 DominO

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 06:23 PM

That's actually falling in the trap, he said words which can be used against him, we can continue yapping or use those words in our own advantage. ANCA has shown to be run by dumb individuals who are only good at yapping ''Armenian Genocide'', it's time we start playing the international board game, we're far behind anyone else in this domain.

QUOTE (yergatuni1 @ Apr 26 2009, 12:10 PM)
Also, if he didn't recognize the genocide on April 24th, our most solemn day, do you think he will recognize it if it comes to the floor, with 'negotiations' under way between Armenia and the turks?, showing dissapointment does put pressure on Obama although I doubt it will help. I think you should pray for some intelligence from the Armenian government at this point....



#33 MosJan

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:11 PM

we did not get to this stage overnight, we will see more changes in next year or so, baby steps ... just need bit more patience, Mer Xndir Bid Lutsve Shudov hampere Vordis HAmpere...
miyayn iyn vor Obamayi yeluyth@ batsasakan e @endunvum turqyo koghme n@shan pit lini or jisht janaparhi vra enq..


QUOTE
OBAMA PUT METS YEGHERN TERM INTO CIRCULATION

U.S. President Barack Obama's April 24 statement is unprecedented not only for Armenians, a Ukrainian political scientist said. “As a matter of fact, we witnessed renewal of legal language. Employing the term Mets Yeghern, Obama not only confirmed the outrageous crime committed the Armenian nation but also put into circulation a phrase fully identical to Genocide, which means total annihilation of a nation in its historical land like Holocaust means annihilation of a nation in Diaspora,” Tigran Avagyan said. “April 24, 2009 has changed the conceptual and legal mechanism of the system of international relations,” he said, Analitika.at.ua reported.


#34 Arpa

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE (MosJan @ Apr 27 2009, 06:11 PM)
we did not get to this stage overnight, we will see more changes in next year or so, baby steps ... just need bit more patience, Mer Xndir Bid Lutsve Shudov hampere Vordis HAmpere...
miyayn iyn vor Obamayi yeluyth@ batsasakan e @endunvum turqyo koghme n@shan pit lini or jisht janaparhi vra enq..

I am sure you meant “hambere HOGIS hambere”
From this song.
ՀԱՄԲԵՐԷ ՀՈԳԻՍ , ՀԱՄԲԵՐԷ

Օտարութիւն այսքան տարով
Կուլամ կարօտով, կարօտով
Մեր խնդիրքը լուծուին շուտով
Համբերէ հոգիս, համբերէ:

Հեռացել եմ Հայրենիքէս
Բաժանուել եմ ընտանիքէս,
Անշուշտ օր մը պիտ միանանք
Հանբերէ , հոգիս համբերէ:

Սրտիս մէջը ունին կրակ
Կայրէ զիս ամէն ժամանակ,
Հայրենիքէս չլատ նամակ
Համբերէ հոգիս համբերէ:

Seems like the following stanza may have been added and retrofitted
Մայրիկ, կերդնում արեւ վկայ
Յետ այսու ինձ դադարչկայ,
Արար աշխարհ թող իմանայ
Հայը կապրի ու կը մնայ:
Վատ, չար թուրքը թող իմանայ
Դաշնակցութիւն կայ կը մնայ:

Edited by Arpa, 27 April 2009 - 02:33 PM.


#35 MosJan

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 03:32 PM

Shnorhakal Arpa papik / te Aranst Qez yes inch eyi anelu apricot.gif Miyayn Aramazdn giti

#36 Arpa

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 08:07 AM

SO!!!
He did not use the G word. When did that become an Armenian word?
How much more stupider can we be ? tongue.gif
Do you think, the way we are carrying this stupid rhetoric, he will side with us the next time?
We are alienating and insulting the one friend we have had in so many years.
We should all send him Thank You notes and show our appreciation.
Yes, yes. Some of us idiots, all the way from AAA to ANCA who seem to know the Armenian language even less than the furks are “barracking” up the wrong tree and “blackballing” our president. Can we please, before we malign and denigrate (both mean to "blacken")our president!
By now the entire world knows the Armenian word for the G!! All we have to do is teach them the true meaning and implication. He may have thought that he was using the milder meaning. It means MURDER MURDER MURDER!
From Panorama;
QUOTE
TURKISH MEDIA SAYS ARMENIAN-TURKISH STATEMENT SIGNED UNDER PRESSURE
Turkish “Hurriyet” published an article about the recent developments of the Armenian-Turkish relations stressing that the statement signed by both countries has been a result of pressure on Turkey by the American Administration. Referring to their diplomatic sources, the paper writes that an implicit threat by U.S. President Barack Obama to use the word “genocide” in his April 24 address, made Turkey sign the deal.
According to the paper it was first used by Obama implicitly in an April 7 meeting with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and later U.S. negotiators were increasingly straightforward as they pushed their clout. The deal was concluded on April 22 after lengthy negotiations in both Yerevan and Ankara, under the mediation of U.S. officials. Mattew Bryza, U.S. assistant secretary of state, conducted 14 hours of marathon talks with the Armenians in Yerevan, while talks in Ankara were conducted between the U.S. Ambassador to Turkey James Jeffrey and Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Ertugrul Apakan.

He used the Armenian term “Mets Yeghern” (see what we have said about the word), he may have learned it in Ankara, but regardless, who before him had used the Armenian language?
And now those SOBs are going to teach us our own LANGUAGE??!!
Yes, we know that the furks say it means “calamity, disaster” Who caused that “calamity/disaster” Allah or Aramazt? Do those SOBs know our language better than we? It seems so. They have picked and chosen the most obscure meaning of it. Do they know? De we know? That basic meaning of the word is “crime, slaughter ,and MURDER”?
Why are we letting our feathers be ruffled. Let those SOTs ruffle their turkey feathers and soil their shalvars.
GOBBLE GOBBLE!!!.
Ruffled feathers
http://www.zinnia.or...my-feathers.jpg
OH!! Btw. Speaking of "signing under pressure" go back and see all the so called "treaties" that we signed "ünder pressure".

Edited by Arpa, 29 April 2009 - 09:42 AM.


#37 Arpa

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 11:12 AM

EVERYONE!!!
CAN WE PLEASE TONE DOWN OUR RHETORICS AND ATTACKS ON MR OBAMA!!
GIVE HIM SOME TIME, GIVE HIM SOME BREATHING SPACE. AFTER ALL, HE JUST MOVED INTO A NEW (WHITE?) "HOUSE" , (where a short time ago those rooms were labeled "whites" and "colored", read "niggers".). WHERE, HE MAY NOT YET KNOW WHERE THE BATHROOM IS. tongue.gif !
ALSO, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR FAVORITE ARMENIAN ALPHABET SOUP, BE IT AAA, ANCA ETAL TO BITE THEIR TONGUES, LEST WE ALIENATE AND LOSE THE ONLY FRIEND WE HAVE HAD IN SO MANY YEARS.
YES, MR. OBAMA DID NOT USE TE LATIN G WORD, BUT LOOK WHAT HE USED INSTEAD, THE MORE POWERFUL “YEGHERN”.
YES, MAYBE HE DOES NOT KNOW THE FULL IMPLICATIONS AND THE NUANCES OF TE WORD, AND NEITHER DO HIS “TEACHERS’ IN ANKARA.
WE KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. WHEN DID ANKARA BECOME THE INSTITUTE OF ARMENIAN LANGUAGE AND PHILOLOGY? WHICH “TURKOGHLIAN” DICTIONARY ARE THEY READING?
IT MEANS
MURDER MURDER MURDER
AS TO “CALAMITY”AND “DISASTER” WE HAVE OTHER WORDS FOR THEM.**.
DOES THE USE OF THE NATIVE WORD “SHOAH” DIMINISH THE IMPACT OF THE “HOLOCAUST”?.
SEE HOW THAT WORD MADE THOSE DOGS IN ANKARA YELP AND TUG THEIR TAILS BETWEEN THEIR HINDLEGS.
PLEASE, GIVE THE MAN SOME CREDIT AND THANK HIM PROFUSELY!!
---
**Calamity=պատուհաս/patouhas, and disaster=աղէտ/aghet.

Edited by Arpa, 05 May 2009 - 05:00 AM.


#38 vava

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:43 PM

Thank you Arpa...
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was slightly put-off wink.gif by the generally negative reaction to Obama's statements. All we need now is to shake his resolve to "acheive a full, frank and just acknowledgment of the facts."


#39 vava

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE (shiner @ Apr 25 2009, 03:38 PM)
Great post!

But the Armenian masses are just as naive as the rest of the masses.


Good to see you again shiner.
I'm not at all certain of what you mean by this statement (apart from the obvious truth). I can't help but think there's something else implied within... care to elaborate?




#40 shiner

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE (vava @ May 5 2009, 04:44 AM)
Good to see you again shiner.
I'm not at all certain of what you mean by this statement (apart from the obvious truth). I can't help but think there's something else implied within... care to elaborate?


I mean that Armenians are just as likely as any other group to fall for a politician's rhetoric. With every election cycle Armenians get worked up about someone promising to recognize the genocide; and then when the candidate gets in office he doesn't.

Obama wants to have his cake and eat it too, and it's working. First he promises recognition of the genocide, then he takes office and comes up with " my personal views have not changed " , "I'm interested in the facts" etc. , and Armenians are still waiting. They will probably be waiting for 4 or 8 more years. And then there will be another cycle with another politician and the result will be the same.

Obama's words are nothing more then well crafted politically correct statements.

I thought your post was also pointing this out because it had a very skeptical tone whereas many Armenians truly believe Obama is gonna do a whole lot.




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