Iranisms In Armenian Language?
#41
Posted 24 May 2004 - 11:57 AM
#42
Posted 24 May 2004 - 02:55 PM
Yes, Iran # 1 we do use that word, however with a twist. Thank you.
As I mentioned before in that article there are so many more words and names that are common to both of our languages as there are historical ones such as Anahit, Khosrow, Trdat and others. We will leave them aside and perhaps treat them under a separate proper topic. Oh! btw there is another word in that same paragraph which is also used in Armenian, "barj" commonly written as "barts" means pillow.
Too bad that site does not allow copy and paste, unless I don't know how.
That word "bazm/bazum" is not used in the sense of feast in Armenian but it is somehow related.
When I staretd my search I was hoping that it would somehow lead me to the other usage of "bazum" but it turned out one "bazum" was not related to the other. The other "bazum/bazoum" I am referring to is its use as "multiple", my hope was that since the common usage in Armenian of your word of "bazm" has to do with "sit" I was hoping that in its use of "sitting on a cushion, i.e. "reclining/spreading" would eventually appear as spread/multiply/grow, but that was not the case.
As mentioned above in Armenian the word appears in the verb form "bazmil/to sit". We have another word for "sit", "nstil". There is a slight difference and a nuance, while nstil simply means to sit bazmil on the other hand refers to sitting in a ceremonial fashion, i.e. at a feast. As mentioned above we do use the word more specifically to mean ceremonial sitting as a king would (spread) at a banquet table/sufra, we also use it to mean to sit on a cushion hence the Armenian word for cushion-bazmots.
As to the other "bazoum" that we use as "multiple", it derives from the PIE*** "bzng'hu" (don't ask me how) which in fact means many, wide, large so our use as in bazmativ/numerous, bazmutyun/multitude, bazmapatkel/to multiply, bazmapatik/many folds(as used in bazmapatkel) etc. is from the fact that the word has been remanded to the status of an adjunct to stress the superlative nature of a word, in other words it is a kind of a superlative prefix as the English suffix -est, or the Greek prefix "mega".
***No Sip, it is not a dessert
Edited by Arpa, 24 May 2004 - 03:12 PM.
#43
Posted 24 May 2004 - 03:56 PM
#44
Posted 24 May 2004 - 04:08 PM
Rouge Or else kosmetika or nerk (paint), like shrtnanerk (lipstick). I don't know, I don't use much make-up. Grim is more make-up for artists.
#45
Posted 24 May 2004 - 04:19 PM
All of the above.
The one word that I know is "shpar" which, (I looked it up) is supposed to be from the Assyrian "shappir", literally beautiful. It is commonly used to mean rouge whrther for the face or the lips. It is also used as verb as in "shparvil".
No, no "bazak".
#46
Posted 24 May 2004 - 04:25 PM
But I was thinking of "pure" words. For example "ārāyesh" in modern Persian means makeup. It comes from older word , "ārāstan" which means to trim, furnish...
"Bazak" isnt used in modern Persian so much.
Btw, why do you chop/chomp first vowel in Armenian: shrtnanerk , nstil...
Is it the way the word is pronounced or has it to do with Armenian alphabet?
#47
Posted 24 May 2004 - 08:30 PM
Bazmoc means couch.
#48
Posted 24 May 2004 - 08:35 PM
Dim comes from demk, compare to dimagits, "a" being a shaghkap.
#49
Posted 25 May 2004 - 01:46 AM
Do you mean how to copy/paste from PDF-format?
On the pdf-menu you have the icon "T". Activate it if necessary, then mark the text and right click and copy.
#50
Posted 25 May 2004 - 04:39 AM
I was looking at this site ( In Persian script) : http://armanestan.persianblog.com
There is a section about Armenian and Persian languages....
The word "arzān" , "ārzhan" :
While in modern Persian it means "cheap", in Armenian it means "suitable, fit".
But sometimes in prayer in Persian people still say: God thank you making your gifts "arzan" to us..!
#51
Posted 25 May 2004 - 05:19 PM
I was looking at this site ( In Persian script) : http://armanestan.persianblog.com
There is a section about Armenian and Persian languages....
The word "arzān" , "ārzhan" :
While in modern Persian it means "cheap", in Armenian it means "suitable, fit".
But sometimes in prayer in Persian people still say: God thank you making your gifts "arzan" to us..!
In Armenian it means cheap also.
EZHAN
Edited by Teutonic Knight, 25 May 2004 - 05:19 PM.
#52
Posted 26 May 2004 - 12:22 AM
#53
Posted 26 May 2004 - 02:11 AM
But I was thinking of "pure" words. For example "ārāyesh" in modern Persian means makeup. It comes from older word , "ārāstan" which means to trim, furnish...
"Bazak" isnt used in modern Persian so much.
Btw, why do you chop/chomp first vowel in Armenian: shrtnanerk , nstil...
Is it the way the word is pronounced or has it to do with Armenian alphabet?
interestingly enough i have hears people call it "svaghvel" meaning something to do with cement- construction i believe- very funny trm to use
#54
Posted 26 May 2004 - 07:44 AM
Who borrowed from whom?
Yes, ezhan (eastern) and azhan (western are both official and both mean cheap, low priced.
I'll be!!!
In proper circles it is considered a mortal sin to use "arzhan" to mean cheap. Those who use the one with the R to mean the one without it are looked down as barbarians and are accused of poor mastery of the language.
Blow me down!!! As that great philosopher Popeye would say.***
It turns out that all three versions, azhan, ezhan and arzhan are derived from the same origin, i.e the last one, the one with the R (from the Pahlavi "arzan" which in fact means proper, becoming, WORTHY. I read the monograph a million times yet I cannot make out as to how one word acquires a totally different meaning, a meaning that is a totally opposite, a rotation of 180 degrees?
Let's play a game. Let us see how many words are composed with "arzhan" (worthy, precious/pricy) as the base. I will begin with "hargarzhan/arzhanapativ Ter Hayr".
I still maintain that the peoper Armenian word is "shpar/shaperel". YOu may also consider ("Hambartsum yayla... zugvel en dashter...") zugvil, zugaran.
Dear Iran01, also consider "nakhsh/nakshun".
** Don't be scandalized. I can write about dzo, tso, as in "tso tgha"!, lo, lao, qa , as in "qa ahgchik"!, qla as well.
*** When George W's father asked him who had cut the cherrry tree down, little Georgy answered; "Popeye did"!! Can you see what he actually meant?
#55
Posted 26 May 2004 - 02:13 PM
It turns out that all three versions, azhan, ezhan and arzhan are derived from the same origin, i.e the last one, the one with the R (from the Pahlavi "arzan" which in fact means proper, becoming, WORTHY. I read the monograph a million times yet I cannot make out as to how one word acquires a totally different meaning, a meaning that is a totally opposite, a rotation of 180 degrees?
Dear Arpa
That was my point, Those "proper circle" are right.
plz look in Armenian poetry, writting .... . I am sure you will see the usage of:
light/heavy and cheap/expensive
are not as it is expected to be. It will confirm thier arguments....
The word "cheap" is more associated to "weight" ! The price-level is defined as "worth to best". It is hard to explain, but when I saw the the definition of "arzān" as suitable, worthy in Armenian..I got an "aha" experience since the word "garān" ( expensive in Persian ) confirm the correct meaning of "arzhan".
#56
Posted 26 May 2004 - 02:49 PM
Nāiri, Nāirikā
An Avestan's word for "devouted married woman" .
http://armanestan.persianblog.com
http://www.avesta.or...avdict.htm#dctn
#57
Posted 27 May 2004 - 05:55 PM
And it's interesting how I don't even realize this. There are so many words I took to be Armenian, but they were straight up Persian. Sometimes I remark to my mom that at times it seems most of our words come from Persian, and she agrees, giving me a list, .
#58
Posted 30 May 2004 - 05:47 AM
Nāiri, Nāirikā
An Avestan's word for "devouted married woman" .
http://armanestan.persianblog.com
http://www.avesta.or...avdict.htm#dctn
Brilliant! I didn't know this. See here:
http://hyeforum.com/...ic=1539&hl=naru
By the way, is there a word for great-grandmother in Farsi? There doesn't seem to be one in Armenian. We call our grandmothers and great (great-great-great- etc.) grandmothers "tatik" or "metsmam". The same goes for our great-grandfathers, either "papik" or "metspap". Although this may differ in dialects. From what I understand, in Armenia "metspap" means "great-grandfather" and "papik" grandfather. So what's a great-great-grandfather?
I'll never forget my mom asking me to bring shaqar (sugarcubes) and when I brought them, she said: "No, not ghand. Shaqar". Meaning: shaqar = (granulated) sugar, ghand = sugarcubes. In "proper" Armenian, granulated sugar is "shaqaravaz" (lit. sugar sand) and sugarcube is "shaqar".
Welcome to hyeforum Shaunt.
#59
Posted 30 May 2004 - 06:49 AM
http://hyeforum.com/...ic=1539&hl=naru
By the way, is there a word for great-grandmother in Farsi? There doesn't seem to be one in Armenian. We call our grandmothers and great (great-great-great- etc.) grandmothers "tatik" or "metsmam". The same goes for our great-grandfathers, either "papik" or "metspap". Although this may differ in dialects. From what I understand, in Armenia "metspap" means "great-grandfather" and "papik" grandfather. So what's a great-great-grandfather?
Something was funny there and I will not ask so much
Anyway, interesting thread about names by Arpa , You ,...
What goes for "Naire" ( male) "Nāiri" (female):
What I can recall, for ex the ancestor of Rostam ( hero of heros in Shahname) is mentioned as "Sām Narimān (= Sām the hero, the male, the brave..)". And the modern word "nar" is devoted to "male animals". So it dosent sounds so good to be refered as "nar" in modern Persian But on other hand it is considered as very beautifull to have last name such as: "Narimān".
Check this one, plz: http://www.canada-os...yston/saga.html
This the mythology of ossetians. It is story about "Narts".
There is a theory that the "Nart" has its root in some indo-European languages as : "male".
It is indeed very interesting with names. For ex "Ānush" in Armenian is used mainly for girls name, but in Persian both for boys and girls.
What goes for grand..grand..father/mother ! I dont know. Nothing I can recall now. I know in some Iranian dialects "māmik" or modern "māmi" is used by children to show thier affection....In old/new Persian these words are used for father/mother : pedar/bāb/bābā and mādar/mām/māmā.
The only word I can recall close to grand....grand is: "niā or niākān" which means ancestor. Otherwise "mādar/pedar bozorg" is used for grand father/mother.
#60
Posted 30 May 2004 - 07:15 AM
This the mythology of ossetians. It is story about "Narts".
There is a theory that the "Nart" has its root in some indo-European languages as : "male".
Mind you, not to Ossetians only. I'm not even sure that John Colarusso has studied Ossetian versions of the Nart tales.
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