20 replies to this topic

[Armena]

Many asked me to believe in Christianity. Many invited me, almost pleaded with me, to accept Jesus as my savior. Over the years they have given me (sometimes unasked for) Bibles, tracts, pamphlets
and books. I’ve read their material and more. I’ve read about Christianity, thought about it, even prayed about it. I can’t accept it. Not that Christianity doesn’t have some good features. It does.
It has high teachings and wise counsels (love God, love your neighbor, be forgiving, honest, humble, etc.). I accept those teachings but I don’t accept Christianity itself because I’ve found too many lies and contradictions, too many myths and fables, too much wishful thinking and weak explanations.
I believe in God but not the god of Christianity, who drowned the entire world, who couldn’t forgive the sin of a fairytale couple in Eden until his only son was tortured and murdered, a son who he fathered with a woman with whom he was not married. This is not a true description of God; it’s a caricature. Christianity’s absurdities and delusions, its lies and contradictions, its misinterpretations and self-deceptions, are the topic of this book, which is mostly a compilation of articles I wrote over the past year, though I’ve thought about them much longer.

[Armena]

The death and resurrection of Jesus are central—many would say fundamental—to Christianity. And as every good Christian knows, Jesus died on Good Friday and arose from the dead on Easter Sunday.

Or did he? Jesus said he would be in the ground for three days and three nights.

12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (King James Bible, Matthew)

The New American Bible has a footnote to these verses.

The only additional sign to be given to the faithless is that of Jesus’ death and resurrection, typified by the story of Jonah in the belly of the fish. The allusion to Jesus’ resurrection could not have been grasped by his audience at the time.

I, too, have trouble grasping the “allusion” (did they mean “illusion”?) because if Jesus really was crucified on Good Friday and resurrected on Easter Sunday morning, then he spent only two nights, not three, “in the belly of the earth.” Most people would count Friday to Sunday as two days, especially since Friday at 3:00
P.M. (the traditional time Jesus is supposed to have died) until Sunday morning is less than 48 hours. Yet it might be argued that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday span (part of ) three days. But can you find three nights between Friday and Sunday? I can’t. Another verse makes the problem worse: in Mark, Jesus predicts he will rise again after three days.

8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. (King James Bible, Mark)

What’s going on? Either Jesus made an incorrect (i.e., false) prophecy about his death and resurrection, or else Christians for the past two thousands years have been commemorating his death and resurrection on the wrong days. And if Christian churches can’t even get the days right (after all, “three days and three nights” is a simple expression, isn’t it?), it’s easy to wonder how many other things they have wrong, too.

[Sasun]

Oh, how wonderful. You have found an incorrect prophecy. So Jesus could resurrect, but somehow was unable to calculate the time correctly

[Zartonk]

I believe in God but not the god of Christianity, who drowned the entire world, who couldn’t forgive the sin of a fairytale couple in Eden until his only son was tortured and murdered, a son who he fathered with a woman with whom he was not married.

When it comes to posessing a split personality, no other Supreme Diety in any religion even competes with the God of the Bible. While the Elohim of the Old Testament is a mean-spirited, dictatorial scourge-God of a single nation, the Heavenley father of the Gospels is the all exepting, all mercifull, loving redeemer of the entire world. In envy and compassion, the two are almost respective foils. Therfore it wasn't Jesus' God at all who expelled and drowned humanity, alongside many other questionable actions. Since it is the man made institution of Christianity (or the church system) that roots itself back to the Torah and not the personal teachings of Jesus, I don't think Christianity as a belief should be judged by the Old Testament. And as far as the Virgin Birth and the prophecies and details of the Resurrection are concerned, I leave it to the individual to choose the faith or reject them. I prefer to focus on the inner thoughts of Jesus anyway.

[skhara]

When it comes to posessing a split personality, no other Supreme Diety in any religion even competes with the God of the Bible. While the Elohim of the Old Testament is a mean-spirited, dictatorial scourge-God of a single nation, the Heavenley father of the Gospels is the all exepting, all mercifull, loving redeemer of the entire world. In envy and compassion, the two are almost respective foils. Therfore it wasn't Jesus' God at all who expelled and drowned humanity, alongside many other questionable actions. Since it is the man made institution of Christianity (or the church system) that roots itself back to the Torah and not the personal teachings of Jesus, I don't think Christianity as a belief should be judged by the Old Testament. And as far as the Virgin Birth and the prophecies and details of the Resurrection are concerned, I leave it to the individual to choose the faith or reject them. I prefer to focus on the inner thoughts of Jesus anyway.

Excellent Zartonk!

Edited by skhara, 11 November 2005 - 06:54 PM.

[Armen]

When it comes to posessing a split personality, no other Supreme Diety in any religion even competes with the God of the Bible. While the Elohim of the Old Testament is a mean-spirited, dictatorial scourge-God of a single nation, the Heavenley father of the Gospels is the all exepting, all mercifull, loving redeemer of the entire world. In envy and compassion, the two are almost respective foils. Therfore it wasn't Jesus' God at all who expelled and drowned humanity, alongside many other questionable actions. Since it is the man made institution of Christianity (or the church system) that roots itself back to the Torah and not the personal teachings of Jesus, I don't think Christianity as a belief should be judged by the Old Testament. And as far as the Virgin Birth and the prophecies and details of the Resurrection are concerned, I leave it to the individual to choose the faith or reject them. I prefer to focus on the inner thoughts of Jesus anyway.

Briliant post indeed.

[armjan]

I believe in God but not the god of Christianity,

what/which god do you believe in?

Edited by armjan, 12 November 2005 - 11:53 PM.

[Anoushik]

I believe in God

... I don't

[Anahit]

What i can't stand about so called "christians" is their disrespect towards other religions and teachings (like Buddha), how they think they are the best and the only right one, how they laugh at other's believes etc. The other thing about them, that really makes be angry, cause i see how stupid human beings can act, is their narrow-mindedness: i know "christians" for whom the ENTIRE WORL'D POPULATION is devide just into 2 categories of people: christians and bad people. and i know "christians" who are sure that God sent Bush to wipe the muslems off the world, to save christianism... "christians" who were forcing me to read bible and praise jesus in order to be given the "predominance" to go to heaven...

[Eloren]

What i can't stand about so called "christians" is their disrespect towards other religions and teachings (like Buddha), how they think they are the best and the only right one, how they laugh at other's believes etc. The other thing about them, that really makes be angry, cause i see how stupid human beings can act, is their narrow-mindedness: i know "christians" for whom the ENTIRE WORL'D POPULATION is devide just into 2 categories of people: christians and bad people. and i know "christians" who are sure that God sent Bush to wipe the muslems off the world, to save christianism... "christians" who were forcing me to read bible and praise jesus in order to be given the "predominance" to go to heaven...

It's the same with most "monotheist" religions in fact.. Jews deny the Christ and Islam, Christians deny Islam (they can't deny Judaism, it's a part of it christianism) and Muslims deny the other two.
This is what happens when you follow blindly a religion without really questionning yourself and your beliefs.

How can a religion declare itself a religion of peace, love and respect and at the same time, deny other people's beliefs, fight against infidels, and categorize the ones who don't believe the same things as them as "bad people" ?

This is the reason why i have stopped to follow blindly what i have been thought since i am a kid to follow only what i believe in. Religion is between God and me and nothing else is important (Bible, Cross, Holy things, Saints etc..) exept for love and respect.

[phantom22]

What i can't stand about so called "christians" is their disrespect towards other religions and teachings (like Buddha), how they think they are the best and the only right one, how they laugh at other's believes etc. The other thing about them, that really makes be angry, cause i see how stupid human beings can act, is their narrow-mindedness: i know "christians" for whom the ENTIRE WORL'D POPULATION is devide just into 2 categories of people: christians and bad people. and i know "christians" who are sure that God sent Bush to wipe the muslems off the world, to save christianism... "christians" who were forcing me to read bible and praise jesus in order to be given the "predominance" to go to heaven...

Anyone can call themselves "Christian." Those you speak of are not Christians at all. They are a corruption of what it means to be a Christian. They are a political force in the USA, but using the word "Christian" to describe them is a corruption of the word. How can one be a Christian when their agenda is Satanic? They want to starve people to death who do not agree with them, both domestically and internationally. They have stolen two Presidential elections in 2000 and 2004, using the most un-Christian means possible, namely stealing votes by corrupting the programs of electronic voting machines.

[Arpa]

Anyone can call themselves "Christian." Those you speak of are not Christians at all. They are a corruption of what it means to be a Christian. They are a political force in the USA, but using the word "Christian" to describe them is a corruption of the word. How can one be a Christian when their agenda is Satanic? They want to starve people to death who do not agree with them, both domestically and internationally. They have stolen two Presidential elections in 2000 and 2004, using the most un-Christian means possible, namely stealing votes by corrupting the programs of electronic voting machines.

The problem of the so called Christians of today is that they don’t know what the whole thing is about.
Read about “false prophets”.
The Armenian word for "prophet"(from the Greek-pro and phata) is margar-(eh)/Մարգարէ. You will be surprised to learn what it literaly means.

Matt.24
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Speaking of which, see how that moronic “prophet” aka P(h)at Robotson( read flatulence) placed his big foot in his BIG mouth for the umpteenth time. Yet, so many grandmothers on miserly welfare checks, who don’t even have enough money to buy a loaf of bread send their last penny to that SOB to help him live in “pagan” splendor. And, you thought Christianity was a discipline of love, not fear, derision, threats and intimidation!
Speaking of “assassination of Hugo Chavez… that fat Pat should use some of his ill acquired funds to hire extra bodyguards.
What a MK idiot!!!
He is lucky to have been born and lived in the US. If he were in another country he would have met his “creator” long time ago.
The definitive word below is Intelligent Design, aka ID, oddly enought those two first etters are used to spell I D I O T.
http://www.cnn.com/2...robertson.reut/


Robertson warns Pennsylvania voters of God's wrath
Eight 'intelligent design' school board members lost election
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Conservative Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson told citizens of a Pennsylvania town that they had rejected God by voting their school board out of office for supporting "intelligent design" and warned them Thursday not to be surprised if disaster struck.
Robertson, a former Republican presidential candidate and founder of the influential Christian Broadcasting Network and Christian Coalition, has made similar apocalyptic warnings and provocative statements before.
Last summer, he hit the headlines by calling for the assassination of leftist Venezuelan Present Hugo Chavez, one of President George W. Bush's most vocal international critics.
"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city," Robertson said on his daily television show broadcast from Virginia, "The 700 Club."
"And don't wonder why He hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for His help because he might not be there," he said.
The 700 Club claims a daily audience of around one million. It is also broadcast around the world translated into more than 70 languages.
In voting on Tuesday, eight Dover, Pennsylvania, school board members up for re-election lost their seats after trying to introduce a statement on "intelligent design" to high school biology students.
Adherents of intelligent design argue that certain forms in nature are too complex to have evolved through natural selection and must have been created by a "designer." Opponents say it is the latest attempt by conservatives to introduce religion into the school science curriculum.
The Dover case sparked a trial in federal court that gained nationwide attention after the school board was sued by parents backed by the American Civil Liberties Union. The board ordered schools to read students a short statement in biology classes informing them that the theory of evolution is not established fact and that gaps exist in it.
The statement mentioned intelligent design as an alternate theory and recommended students read a book that explained the theory further. A decision in the case is expected before the end of the year.
In 1998, Robertson warned the city of Orlando, Florida that it risked hurricanes, earthquakes and terrorist bombs after it allowed homosexual organizations to put up rainbow flags in support of sexual diversity.

Edited by Arpa, 13 November 2005 - 12:44 PM.

[DominO]

... I don't

The more accurate answer would be that you believe in the non existance of a god.

[Sip]

Most people would count Friday to Sunday as two days, especially since Friday at 3:00 P.M. (the traditional time Jesus is supposed to have died) until Sunday morning is less than 48 hours. Yet it might be argued that Friday, Saturday, and Sunday span (part of ) three days. But can you find three nights between Friday and Sunday?

It might have been a daylight savings time change that weekend. Also, the whale might have crossed the time-line at some point with Johna. I'm sure God has a perfectly good explanation since God created time to begin with

[ED]

the most stupetest thing i found in this thread is,.... the Topic title itself.

[Takoush]

What i can't stand about so called "christians" is their disrespect towards other religions and teachings (like Buddha), how they think they are the best and the only right one, how they laugh at other's believes etc. The other thing about them, that really makes be angry, cause i see how stupid human beings can act, is their narrow-mindedness: i know "christians" for whom the ENTIRE WORL'D POPULATION is devide just into 2 categories of people: christians and bad people. and i know "christians" who are sure that God sent Bush to wipe the muslems off the world, to save christianism... "christians" who were forcing me to read bible and praise jesus in order to be given the "predominance" to go to heaven...

Anahit:

You're generalizing. Although as I told you before I also happen to know a great many Christians that they say that they are but they don't practice it. Certainly not. Some say they practice it such as Bush; but he's the worst Christian I'll ever know. SOB. He's an idiot. Many were killed in the war he sought and instigated and when they brought Sadam Hussein's gun he raved about it. Knowing well that idiot that many many beautiful and young American boys were killed for it. What I would call it a useless war for money hungry bloody Bush and the money hungry and sellfish Jews in this country and Jerusalem. Yet Bush claims he is Christian. The worst and the bloodiest person I know.

Not all are like him. Thank goodness. I should hope some of the Christians that they claim that they are Christians are not like him. They should in reality concentrate on Christ and God; but definitely have respect towards all of mankind. If they are true Christians. Take heart there are some Christians that have good ethics, dignity and real love of mankind as a true Christian person should be.

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 13 November 2005 - 04:05 PM.

[phantom22]

Anahit:

You're generalizing. Although as I told you before I also happen to know a great many Christians that they say that they are but they don't practice it. Certainly not. Some say they practice it such as Bush; but he's the worst Christian I'll ever know. SOB. He's an idiot. Many were killed in the war he sought and instigated and when they brought Sadam Hussein's gun he raved about it. Knowing well that idiot that many many beautiful and young American boys were killed for it. What I would call it a useless war for money hungry bloody Bush and the money hungry and sellfish Jews in this country and Jerusalem. Yet Bush claims he is Christian. The worst and the bloodiest person I know.

Not all are like him. Thank goodness. I should hope some of the Christians that they claim that they are Christians are not like him. They should in reality concentrate on Christ and God; but definitely have respect towards all of mankind. If they are true Christians. Take heart there are some Christians that have good ethics, dignity and real love of mankind as a true Christian person should be.

Takouhi,

Anahit is not referring to the Christians that you are positively referring to, the true Christians. Did you not notice her subtleties? I did. When she put Christian in qoutes (" ") and did not capitalize the word, she was referring to those who call themselves Christian but who are not. Just the ones you speak disparagingly about, Bush and his cronies. There are many true Christians around the world. Let their good deeds alert you to their presence.

Edited by phantom22, 13 November 2005 - 04:15 PM.

[Takoush]

Takouhi,

Anahit is not referring to the Christians that you are positively referring to, the true Christians. Did you not notice her subtleties? I did. When she put Christian in qoutes (" ") and did not capitalize the word, she was referring to those who call themselves Christian but who are not. Just the ones you speak disparagingly about, Bush and his cronies. There are many true Christians around the world. Let their good deeds alert you to their presence.

I know what and to whom she was referring to; but she was generalizing it also. Most of them unfortunately are NOT BY ANY MEANS THE TRUE CHRISTIANS. Frankly and unfortunately in a lot of cases I happen to agree even in her generalizations. I think I know that there are good Christians in this world. I don't have to wait for you to tell me that there are. Unfortunately though, a great deal of them that I have interacted around here, do not practice Christianity. And I was referring to that if you have gotten my subtleties?

Edited by Anahid Takouhi, 13 November 2005 - 05:21 PM.

[Harut]

...

Edited by Harut, 13 November 2005 - 10:00 PM.

[armjan]

diff strokes for diff folks!

Edited by armjan, 14 November 2005 - 02:31 AM.