120 replies to this topic

[Sasun]

Every possibilities that you can imagine, exist one way or another in other Universes, you just choose in which of those you want to live, conscience is just that, a filter, that filter what it dosen't like, and lets pass the Universe it want to live in.

What if you imagine two things that are not in the same universe. According to this logic, you then choose to live in both universes? How is it possible?

[DominO]

What if you imagine two things that are not in the same universe. According to this logic, you then choose to live in both universes? How is it possible?

That is impossible, because every possible Universes exist, one Universe for sure will exist that will contain both.

[Sasun]

What if you imagine two things that are not in the same universe. According to this logic, you then choose to live in both universes? How is it possible?

That is impossible, because every possible Universes exist, one Universe for sure will exist that will contain both.

OK, lets say that explanation is accepted.
But here is another question: what if someone imagines that multi-universe model is not true that only one universe exists? According to your logic, for this person there is a universe where it is true that no other universe can exist. So one universe denies the existance of all other universes. If there is such a universe, then that is the only one. Right? If there is no such universe, then your model doesn't work because someone was unable to be in a correct universe. Now explain me this Mr. Multi-Universalist

[DominO]

OK, lets say that explanation is accepted.
But here is another question: what if someone imagines that multi-universe model is not true that only one universe exists? According to your logic, for this person there is a universe where it is true that no other universe can exist. So one universe denies the existance of all other universes. If there is such a universe, then that is the only one. Right? If there is no such universe, then your model doesn't work because someone was unable to be in a correct universe. Now explain me this Mr. Multi-Universalist

Actually, that is very easy to explain. Imagining that only one Universe exist, is admitting that many exists.

Let me try to explain what I mean. In order to believe that there is all but one Universe, you recognise the possibility of other Universes, this is only a problem of definition, you could consider every Univereses just as many cosmoses in one and only universe. I may on the other hand consider that on every fraction of second I change Universe. For example, I moved my hand, I can suppose that I have done nothing such, and that what I have done is to change my universe to another, where my hand was not on the same position etc...

What I claim is interesting, because it gives an interesting look at the symetry of information processing in two different area of the brain at the same exact time, without both communication with each others, this happens in quantum level. What if, the brain is the filter, that permit us to change Universe in each fraction of second, than the brain will act as a quantum superposition, the same locality between the two brain areas which communicate with each others near instantaniously. I don't know how to write this belief. But, suppose that in fact consciencenous and the "me"the self, or everything that goes with it is a product of our brain, suppose that there is no soul, I know you believe there is one, but suppose there is none. That will make the brain even more complex, because it has to generate consciencenous that is so misterious, the biggest mistery in the whole universe, I would think. If we consider that consciencenous that sound so magical is produced by the brain, what I propose does not sound more magical at all.

The reason why we have differences, like me considering there is many univereses and you just one, and that you and me could be as right, is because you could consider every phenomen being explained by one Universe that would contain everything in it, I mean, if there is many Universes, you may call all this thing together one and only Universe, while I will suppose that every of those things are universes, so again, both of us will be right, we are limited with human words to define what is what, it is our words our comprehentions that creat the undeterministic Quantum comprehention of things.

I came to my conclusion that no soul need to exist to suppose a postmortal life, even more, I believe that no soul would better support it. All those Universes, or better all those little Cosmoses in this Universe, or whatever... for infinity, once or for while quantum states will be formed, connections will be formed that will creat this you, this unique bases of "yous" and "mes" etc...

I also believe that we are always conscient, before birth, there is quantum states and connections making this me, but my brain does not have any record of it. I see that like when you have a dream where you do not remember your present life... you are conscient in that dream.

Life and death is just illusion, we simply are, and know we exist...

Edited by nairi, 12 August 2003 - 04:46 PM.

[Sasun]

Actually, that is very easy to explain. Imagining that only one Universe exist, is admitting that many exists.

Let me try to explain what I mean.

.....

Oh I missed your post for some reason. (I clicked 'new messages' and it didn't show your answer, this maybe a bug).

Your answer doesn't satisfy me. I believe there is only one universe. So how does it mean that I admit there are multiple universes? When I say only one universe, I understand that when you move your hand it is a certain event and there can be no other universe where your hand didn't move. Maybe I don't understand this model well. If multi-universe is a true model, then shouldn't it work in all universes that it supposes can exist? Is there any other universe where multi-universe theory is not true?

Also I don't understand why you are mentioning the brain - my question is a pure logical question. Let me rephrase it: you are saying that for each belief there is a universe where that belief is a reality. Correct? If yes, then I say, I believe that the universe we are seeing and experiencing is the only one. According to your theory, I am absolutely correct in a certain universe, but there is at least one other universe (such as your universe) where my belief is false. So your version tries to accept my belief. But as soon as it accepts, there is a logical conflict. The confict is that I cannot observe your universe, it simply does not exist for me. This cannot happen in objective reality. Maybe you don't think that there is objective reality?

Let me ask you a separate question then: is there objective reality? What I mean by objective reality is that is something the brain has nothing to do with. The function of brain is to understand the reality, but not create it in any way. And the brain may or maynot understand the objective reality correctly. So in my understanding, objective reality is the same regardless of the brain. If you don't think this is correct, then I don't know how to understand anything that you say

Edited by nairi, 12 August 2003 - 04:40 PM.

[DominO]

OK! Lets put it that way.


Imagine that the truth, the "origine" of all those Universes, etc... is one Universal law... and everything is derived from it.

This law, as humans, we can interprate it, and comes up with laws, the reason why we can not understand and find this truth, is because we are limited by the selectivity effect of us being humans, all limited as well with our 5 senses.

So, what happens is that, this pure truth, is everywhere, and that as a human, we just detect parts of it. What is the Universe of yours, is what your brain has made of the part it has detected, what part it took, what parts it has excluded.

Lets give an example, lets talk about imagination, imagination has no limit, an artist will produce a painting, or a scenario for a film, this artist, does not bring something from him, he does not bring something absolutly new... what he has just done, is that his brain has just taken one true and real possibility, that exist, and he made of it something.

So, what I say can not be contradicted, by the reality of the fact that if you think that there is one Universe, then, it should be a Universe that admits one Universe... because the word Universe itself is subjectif, relative, like I said previously, this multyuniverse, its consequences you could interprate it as the consequences of the fact that the Universe could be multilayered, and that there is only one Universe.

When I refer to the Universe, I refer to my, your and everyone else Universe, that is the product of the vibration of this truth, in yourself, myself etc... this is what produces your Universe... the Universe is just the product of the interpretation of the Truth, this Universal law. There is at least, as much Universe as there is conscient form of life on Earth, in fact, there is infinit.

Life is just a "capacity" to do something, with a part of this "Truth."

We are only thinking, the Universes are only the product of Thinking... This is the conclusion I came up with.

I will explain now, why I do not believe to the existance of the soul. Imagine that(I have quickly refered to that last time), from the superstring theory, everything is a product of a vibration, a string, like electrons etc... its just a kind of vibration of what(I think the notion of eather will be again reconsidered soon, with those new theories)? An eather?

Now, that would mean, that we are empty, we are just a kind of ampty vaccum, what makes us, is vibrations, strings etc... Consciencenous, in its turn, is the consequences of those connections of the brain, a perfect connection that makes you, "Sasun."

But what is really your body? You are empty, nothing, your consciencenous is the vibration of a vibration. You already are your soul, because you are composed of pratically nothing, NADA!

When you think, in your brain, 99.99999999999... % is just free space, a vacuum, but still YOU THINK, now, from nothingless, there is quantum bubble creating, so that would mean, that in this free space, there is exotic particules, or whatever that we can even not detect, forming... since they come from nothing, the slightest little influence on that empty space, would influence it, because the only thing there is, that takes that space, is not matter, because matter does not really exist, just string, vibration, the only thing that exist in this empty space, is your thinking, your consciencenous.

What would that mean? That would mean, that the only thing that could influence a quantum bubble, is thinking, consciencenous... and for sure, there is something influencing it, because if nothing could influence it, all quantum bubbles would be identical, and our Comos would just face others every second as we speak, since they will all pupup and be made of the same matters etc...(I will not developpe this point right now).

So, when you think, your thinking influence the space that your consciencenous take, in fact, your thinking could be the only thing that could influence it, beside others thinking and consciencenous, because matter does not really exist, therefore could not influence.

What does that mean? It means, that we are better without a soul, because our lifetime has influences and has created Universes, bunch of them, and has drawn the path, for many other Universes in billions of years from now, that will creat the same connections as the one you have, that will make you Sasun... but billions of years, is nothing... time is not existant, virtual, and even if we consider this virtual time, this virtual time itself is as well relative...

Those billions of years from now, has a direct influence with the present and the past, not only does the past find itself modified from the future, but the present as well. When you think of a decesed one, your brain...( I'll let you suppose what that may mean).


So now, do you better understand what I mean?

Edited by Fadix, 13 August 2003 - 02:59 PM.

[Sasun]

According to your belief, thoughts and consciousness are quantum states. On the other hand, according to the superstring theory, all of physical world is a vacuum consisting of quantum states. Hence, you conclude, the products of brain (thoughts, imagination, dreams, perceptions, etc.) are also physical things because just like the universe they are also quantum states in a vacuum. Am I understanding you correctly? Tell me and I will continue

[DominO]

According to your belief, thoughts and consciousness are quantum states. On the other hand, according to the superstring theory, all of physical world is a vacuum consisting of quantum states. Hence, you conclude, the products of brain (thoughts, imagination, dreams, perceptions, etc.)  are also physical things because just like the universe they are also quantum states in a vacuum. Am I understanding you correctly? Tell me and I will continue

There is a mistake here, according to the superstring, quantum states are a product of super strings, they orginate from the superstring, not the other way.

And, as well, thoughts brings quantum states, and quantum states as results produce thoughts, both are dependent to eachothers.

Ah and, the physical world does not exist, it is just consisting of strings in a vaccum world... so we are already "souls"



There is another thing I forgot to say on the other post. New studies shows that those that believe in supernatural powers, or other stuff like that, compared to those that believe in nothing, have more dopamines in their brains. Some skeptics(so-called skeptics, because those skeptic organizations are not true skeptics, the skeptic is he who dought, not deny everything that we would dought) claims that this is an evidences that those that have beliefs have some sort of overdose of a brain chimical, or are somehow ill. On the other hand, in those same tests, those having higher dopmaine production in their brains were able to see paterns in pictures, that were there, contrary to those that have few dopmanie that have missed those paterns. You may ask, what the hell this has do do with what I bring. It has a lot to do with it. What makes those that have higher dopamines to believe those things, is just that the composition of dopmaine, makes us detect a reality, which those that have few don't detect, or better they detect another reality.

This is what our brain is, it is more like a TV set, where the source, the cable is connected to the Universal Law... the Universal law has infinit numbers of channels, and our Universe, just happens to be those channels that the TV set is able to take, those others, it just does not take them... and when chanels are played on the TV set, consciencenous happens.

It is funny, because more and more I think of those things, and more and more I start to believe that we are neither mortals, neither immortals, we are eternel reduced in a timeline.

We are just thoughts, our thoughts just affect those quantum bubbles, and creat whole new Universes.

Edited by Fadix, 13 August 2003 - 08:37 PM.

[vava]

oh brother. I better not read this stuff before going to bed.

[DominO]

oh brother. I better not read this stuff before going to bed.

Hey! But if you don't read those kind of stuff before going to bed, when are you going to read them? I mean, before bed should be the best time to read those kind of things... you may even have a bonus from your subcinscient, and dream of them.

[vava]

No, 'cause you see, when I read this kind of material before going to bed - I end up NOT going to bed, and then I get very tired. All because of you and Sasun.

[DominO]

No, 'cause you see, when I read this kind of material before going to bed - I end up NOT going to bed, and then I get very tired. All because of you and Sasun.

You see Sasun, here an example of thinkings(of both of us) creating a new universe, a universe where Vava can not sleep.

Edited by Fadix, 13 August 2003 - 10:33 PM.

[Sasun]

Vava jan, don't blame me I blindly fell into Domino's trap (or universe?) by following his nonsense that causes headache. I also lost my sleep and lot's of valuable time.
You Domino guy, its time to roast you again. It's been a while since you are let go around without being roasted. I guess because its August and time for vacation. But enough is enough, you had enough vacation

[Sasun]

There is a mistake here, according to the superstring, quantum states are a product of super strings, they orginate from the superstring, not the other way.

Where exactly is my mistake? Did I say anything about the superstring created by quantum states?

And, as well, thoughts brings quantum states, and quantum states as results produce thoughts, both are dependent to eachothers.

This is only your belief for this week. Next week you will say something else

This is what our brain is, it is more like a TV set, where the source, the cable is connected to the Universal Law... the Universal law has infinit numbers of channels, and our Universe, just happens to be those channels that the TV set is able to take, those others, it just does not take them... and when chanels are played on the TV set, consciencenous happens.

Maybe your brain is like a TV, but not mine I wonder what would happen if we disconnect that cable from your brain. Maybe you will give us a break

[DominO]

You supposed that I meant that superstrings are caused from quantum states(this is what I understood from what you wrote), this was the mistake.


As for next week I will find something new... I have this belief for months now, and I believe I will keep it for long, because it is the thing that has the most sense I ever found.

Just thing about that, if we are just vaccums, the every thing that would be contained in the space I take, is my thoughts, my consciencenous, nothing more. So, since it is the only thing, therefore, it is the only thing that could influence quantum bubbles... my consciencenous influence quantum bubbles, and creat a universe.

------

My brain, and your brain, and everyone else brain is like a TV set, I am surprised that you don't agree with that, because everyone believing in the soul, that I have read, compare the brain like a TV set, and the soul as the source chanel. While, the thing I've done, is to replace the soul as the source chanel, as the ultimate truth, THE LAW, and our limit, being our brain, that can only take few chanels.

[America-Hye]

Read the memoirs of the late Robert Monroe, Virginia-based television executive, and it will confirm some of what Domino is conveying.

[Sasun]

Read the memoirs of the late Robert Monroe, Virginia-based television executive, and it will confirm some of what Domino is conveying.

What? That our brains are like television sets?

[America-Hye]

His experiences had little to do with his professional career. He relates his experiences of being connected to the "brain cable" of the universe. His first experience occured rather innocently, but he developed it into a permanent "cable hookup." He became a free traveller in space and time, even meeting up with his dead father in another dimension. Very interesting reading.

[Sasun]

I believe that science and religion/spirituality are totally different domains. Soul belongs to the religion domain, so there is no point in looking for the soul or deny its existance scientifically. Because a priori soul doesn't belong to the science domain. For this reason I am skeptical to scientific views of everything spiritual, although it is interesting how scientists (and Domino ) look at that.
As for Domino's views, first one needs to understand them then evaluate. Domino is doing a poor job in explaining. When I ask him a question he confuses me instead of clarifying So I still don't know what exactly Domino says. Therefore, it is better to roast Domino than try to understand his multi-universe theory

[DominO]

Sasun, science is observation, spirtuality is its understanding.