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#21 slartibartfast

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 07:06 PM

can i just say something? yeah? ok thanks.
i just want to say that you guys need to start making a distinction between the Jews, Israel/Israeli government, and just the views of individuals. the Israeli government may be the voice of the majority of the jews in Israel (hence their being in power) but it does not mean that they are the voice of all jews. far from it. I mean there are a lot of distinctions within Judaism, and these groups don't always (or often) have the same position, and there are always going to be dissenting views within each group.
for instince, take this sephardic jew that made the speech. that is one person from a minority group of Jews (the sephards) who happens to believe what he said. it was not an official position of any Jewish group, merely him babbling on about what he thinks. sure he has a position of some authority, but not nearly as much as 125 scholars meeting. and before anyone says why should they have to meet to acknowledge it, i tell you that it is because of the issues that you have been discussing, the problem of some people not acknowledging the truth. if, for instance, well known members of the armenian church said publicly the Holocaust did not exist, it would become neccesary for the authority to make an official statement acknowledging the holocaust, just to show the world that this is not the position of most of the church. the Roman Catholic Church did it. of course everyone kn\ew the holocaust happened and was bad, but because of accusations that the Church was in support of Hitler's actions, they made an official condemnation, that otherwise would have been understood without being official. in the same way, these 125 scholars picked as representitaves of a large number of Jews, are trying to show that just because some people refuse to acknowlegde this atrocity, the greater jewish population does not follow those few.
my teacher, just as an example, is Jewish. i was doing a project and presentation on the Armenian quarter, and he specifically told me to make sure i included the information on this atrocity in my presentation. he did not deny it, but insisted on me informing the rest of the class on it. that is one specific example which i know has little or know weight, but i am just showing that the population of Jews cannot be stereotyped according to one person. no group should be.
not a sermon, just a thought.

#22 gamavor

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 08:07 PM

Did your teacher allow you to explain the love affair between Turkey and USA, and covered and not so covered attempts by the Western Barbarians (Scots, Anglo-Saxons) to cover up the Armenian Genocide?

Edited by gamavor, 20 April 2004 - 08:08 PM.


#23 slartibartfast

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 09:52 PM

yes he did. he did not edit or censor my report before i presented it to the class. he just made the suggestion while i was researching that i include that inmy report, because it was an important and far under-recognized or spoken about issue.it just gets skipped over by the general populace, as a rule. people are to focused on other things. but anyone that is attuned to that area of politics and history do not deny the facts, and most of those people that i know are Jewish. In fact, i would probably say that more Jews that i know are aware of the facts than non-Jews. and they do not deny attempts in th epast by people to cover it up. in fact they speak bitterly about the evils of the U.S.A., which my entire school seems to have decided is an evil entity based on all the history, the number of times they f-ed up. but i digress.
I fear many people see the Jews as the extremist Jews that get in the press, because the stick out. in most society's the people who have the extremist views shared by the fewest people are heard, simply because that is what is interesting. no one wants the common concensus repeated over and over. the want to have things stirred up. but most of my friends are Jewish, and they are not at all as you have described them. i will admit, the more Israeli ones do tend to be quite Israel biased in many regards, though they are more focussd on the current arab-israeli conflict with the western bank. but just the Jews, no. they are just like your normal person in general, though they usually have a moral support of Israel. but they do not support everything Israel does. they wish israel to stay in place, but many of them bitterly decry the steps that have been taken to make that happen.
anyone who makes insinuations that all Jews are evil and bent on destroying people and backstabbing and manipulating is entirely false and obscene, and shows a strong ignorance. say what you want about a certain position, but it is absolutely unnecasary and wrong to say that all Jews hold that, or all jews should be accountable for what a few people say. Strm Thurmon makes racist comments and is clearly against equality between black people and white people, but that doesn't mean that all of the U.S.A. is in the KKK.

#24 slartibartfast

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 10:02 PM

on a completely seperate note, isn't it strange that the Armenian section is called a quarter, when really it is only about a sixth of the city? I think we should readjust the names so that they reflect the current sizes. so it would be like Armenian sixth, Jewish 2/7, Muslim 2/7, and Christian 2/7 (i know that it afdds up to more than 1, but it was the closest guestimate i could come up with on the spot). either that or we could like pool it all together and then redivy it up evenly. like communism!

#25 gurgen

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Posted 21 April 2004 - 07:00 AM

QUOTE (gamavor @ Apr 21 2004, 03:07 AM)
Did your teacher allow you to explain the love affair between Turkey and USA, and covered and not so covered attempts by the Western Barbarians (Scots, Anglo-Saxons) to cover up the Armenian Genocide?

A teacher who does this is not a teacher. Even they can learn something.

#26 slartibartfast

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 07:52 PM

hey guys heres some more proof that israe3lis aren't like all anti armenian. AND THIS IS A HIGH UP GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL. check it.

see for yourself.

ISRAELI MINISTER AFFIRMS ARMENIAN GENOCIDE

Washington, DC -- Israeli Minister of Education Yossi Sarid marked the 85th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide Monday, pointedly drawing attention to the significance of his official presence at the memorial gathering in Jerusalem.

In a powerfully-worded statement released in Washington, DC by the Armenian National Institute, the Minister said, "For many years, too many years, you were alone on your Memorial Day. I am aware of the special significance of my presence here today, along with other Israelis. Today perhaps for the first time, you are less alone." He stated also: "I am here, with you, as a human being, as a Jew, as an Israeli, and as Education Minister of the State of Israel."

The Minister also noted that it was a Jewish ambassador of America to Turkey, Henry Morgenthau III who in 1915 was among the first and most determined in telling the world about the massacres, and ultimately, genocide then taking place in Armenia.

"The Minister's statement in Jerusalem on Memorial Day is deeply moving, and at the same time, most encouraging to Armenians seeking worldwide affirmation of the Armenian Genocide," said Robert A. Kaloosdian, Chairman of the Armenian National Institute (ANI) Board of Governors. "Last April, an ANI delegation traveled to Armenia with the grandson and great-grandsons of Ambassador Morgenthau and they were widely honored there. We are pleased that the Israeli administration also remembers Ambassador Morgenthau and publicly applauds those, like him, who speak out against genocide, this crime against all humanity."

The Minister of Education concluded his statement with a commitment to ensure that the Armenian Genocide be included in the Israeli secondary school history curriculum. Its inclusion has previously been blocked by the foreign ministry, which fears possible repercussions on Israel's relations with Turkey. The current Turkish government continues to deny the Armenian Genocide of 1915.

The Armenian National Institute is dedicated to the study, research, and affirmation of the Armenian Genocide.

* Attachment: Speech of the Minister of Education Yossi Sarid, Jerusalem, Israel, dated April 24, 2000. (See below)

(For more information or to arrange interviews with the grandson of Ambassador Morgenthau, Henry Morgenthau IV, or Dr. Rouben Adalian, Director of the Armenian National Institute, please call 202/ 383-9009.)


Speech of Mr. Yossi Sarid, Minister of Education of Israel, at the Armenian memorial gathering, morning of April 24, 2000.

I join you, members of the Armenian community, on your Memorial Day, as you mark the 85th anniversary of your genocide. I am here, with you, as a human being, as a Jew, as an Israeli, and as Education Minister of the State of Israel.

Every year, Armenians gather in Israel and all over the world to remember and to remind the world of the terrible disaster, that befell your people at the beginning of the last century.

For many years, too many years, you were alone on your Memorial Day. I'm aware of the special significance of my presence here today along with other Israelis. Today perhaps for the first time you are less alone.

The Armenian Memorial Day should be a day of reflection and introspection for all of us, a day of soul-searching. On this day, we as Jews, victims of the Shoah should examine our relationship to the pain of others.

The massacre, which was carried out by the Turks against the Armenians in 1915 and 1916, was one of the most horrible acts to occur in modern times.

The Jewish ambassador of America to Turkey in those days, Henry Morgenthau, described the massacre as "The greatest crime in modern history." Morgenthau did not predict what was in store later in the 20th century for the Jews, the Shoah, the most terrible of all is still in front of our eyes.

The person who was most shocked and shocked many people was the Prague-born Jewish author, Franz Werfel, with his masterpiece The Forty Days of Musa Dagh. The idea for writing the book was born in March 1929, when Werfel visited Damascus on his way to Palestine. He wrote: "The pitiful scene of the starved and mutilated children of the Armenian refugees gave me the last push to redeem the cruel fate of the Armenian people from the abyss of oblivion."

The book that appeared in German in 1933 shocked millions of people. Adolf Hitler was then in power. The Forty Days of Musa Dagh was thrown into the flames along with other forbidden books. The book was translated into Hebrew in 1934, and influenced many young people in Eretz Israel including me.

For me and for many youngsters my generation in Israel, The Forty Days of Musa Dagh had a formative effect on our personality and our world outlook.

Today in Israel very few youngsters have heard about Musa Dagh, very few know about the Armenian Genocide. I know how important the position of the Jews, and especially the attitude of the State of Israel to your genocide, are for Armenians in the world. As Minister of Education of the State of Israel, I will do whatever is in my capacity in order that this monumental work The Forty Days of Musa Dagh is once more well known to our children. I will do everything in order that Israeli children learn and know about the Armenian Genocide. Genocide is a crime against humanity and there is nothing more horrible and odious than Genocide. One of the objectives of our education - our main objective - is to instill sensitivity to the harm to the innocent based on nationality alone. We, Jews, as principal victims of murderous hatred are doubly obligated to be sensitive, to identify with other victims.

We have to evoke among the young generation natural and deep indignation against manifestations of genocide in the past, in the present and in future. Genocide is the root of all evil and we have to make supreme political and educational efforts to uproot and extirpate it.

Whoever stands indifferent in front of it, or ignores it, whoever makes calculations, whoever is silent always helps the perpetrator of the crime and not the murdered.

In 1918, Shmuel Talkowsky, the secretary of Chaim Weizmann wrote with the approval of Weitzmann, an important article entitled "The Armenian Question from a Zionist Standpoint."

Among other things, he said. "We, Zionists, have deep and candid sympathy for the fate of the Armenian people. We do this as human beings, as Jews and as Zionists. As human beings our motto is: I am a human being. Whatever affects another human being affects me."

"As Jews, as an ancient exiled people we suffered in all parts of the world. I dare say, they made us experts of martyrdom. Our humanitarian sentiments are so sharpened that nobody matches us. The suffering of any nation no matter how foreign to us or how far from us, affects deeply the chords of our souls, and created between us and the suffering nation a profound sympathy which we can call the "brotherhood of affliction." Among the nations who suffer in our neighborhood there is no nation whose martyrdom is more similar than the Armenian people. As Zionists we have several reasons to sympathize with the Armenian Question. As Zionism by its essence is nothing but the Jewish expression of the demand for national justice, it is natural and logical, that the struggle of a nation for emancipation arouses in us a profound interest. We are convinced that in that region of the globe--the Middle East -- the birthplace of our nation -- Eretz Israel, is only a small part of it, will secure peace and prosperity when the well-defined national aspirations will be fulfilled (to the maximum extent possible.) In our view, a free and prosperous Armenia, free and prosperous Arab land and free and prosperous Eretz Israel are the three pillars on which will be built peace and calm in the Middle East."

#27 Vigil

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 11:22 PM

The Jerusalem Post
Thursday, June 15 2000

A tragedy offstage no more
By Leora Eren Frucht

(May 11) - The decision by Education Minister Yossi Sarid to include the Armenian genocide in the national curriculum is a significant step toward counteracting Israelis' often deliberate ignorance of the atrocity, writes Leora Eren Frucht.

When Hitler ordered his death units to "exterminate without mercy or pity men, women, and children belonging to the Polish-speaking race," he was confident that the world would overlook the mass murder.

"After all," he asked rhetorically on the eve of the 1939 invasion of Poland, "who remembers the extermination of the Armenians?"

For a moment last month it seemed as though Israel was determined to answer that question with a resounding: "We do."

At a ceremony in the Armenian Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City, Education Minister Yossi Sarid bemoaned the fact that Israeli students know next to nothing about the 1915-1916 genocide - in which some 1.5 million Armenians, one-third of the Armenian people, were killed by Turks - and declared his intention to change this.

"I will do everything so that Israeli pupils will study and learn about the Armenian genocide," he declared at the April 24 memorial, where he announced plans to introduce a chapter on genocide into the national history curriculum which would include references to the Armenian genocide.

He also promised to try to acquaint Israeli youth with Prague-born Jewish writer Franz Werfel's The 40 Days of Moussa Dag, the 1933 novel whose graphic depiction of the Armenian plight "shaped a generation in Israel," noted Sarid, but is unfamiliar to most students today.

THE SPEECH and plan marked a sharp departure from the traditional Israeli attitude toward the Armenian genocide, which has for years been downplayed and, some say, even denied by Israel, mainly because of vociferous objections by Turkey.

Ankara maintains that there was no genocide - a claim leading scholars have dismissed as part of an extensive campaign of denial.

"Outrageous," is how Prof. Deborah Lipstadt described the Turkish position.

Lipstadt, the American historian who defeated Holocaust denier David Irving in a highly-publicized libel trial in a London court last month, said in an interview last year with The Jerusalem Post: "The Turks have managed to structure this debate so that people question whether this really happened." She was one of 150 scholars and writers who signed a Washington Post ad last year decrying the Turkish denial of the Armenian genocide.

Another signatory was Prof. Yehuda Bauer, academic director of Yad Vashem and a leading authority on the Holocaust.

"If you accept the UN 1948 definition of genocide - which we and many other nations have done - then there can be no argument [about calling this a genocide]," Bauer told the Post.

But in Israel, the Turkish position - that there was no genocide - has prevailed for years, with the Foreign Ministry playing an active part in suppressing any mention of that dark chapter in Ottoman history.

Anxious to maintain close ties with Ankara, the ministry has tried - and frequently succeeded - in canceling academic conferences, educational programs, and even TV shows mentioning the Armenian genocide.

OVER THE years, the Israel Broadcasting Authority (IBA) has repeatedly canceled scheduled screenings of programs dealing with the subject - including a British documentary, Passage to Ararat, and a seemingly innocuous film on the Armenians living in Jerusalem's Old City.

Years after one such incident, Yosef (Tommy) Lapid, now Shinui party leader and MK, admitted that as IBA director-general he had canceled a documentary on the Armenians under pressure from then-Foreign Ministry director-general David Kimche, who warned him that angering Ankara could harm efforts to help Syrian Jews escape via Turkey.

Prof. Israel Charny, founder and executive director of the Jerusalem-based Institute on Holocaust and Genocide, said that in 1982 he resisted Foreign Ministry pressure to cancel what was to be the first Conference on the Holocaust and Genocide, and was to include a session devoted to the Armenian case.

More than half the scheduled participants withdrew, among them Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel, who was to have been president of the conference. (Wiesel rejected a Foreign Ministry demand to cancel the Armenian session, but withdrew from the conference when Charny turned down a ministry request to move the venue from Jerusalem to Europe, a compromise Wiesel supported.)

Bauer said he never experienced pressure but was "advised" by the Foreign Ministry to keep the Armenian issue out of the public eye - advice which left him feeling "uncomfortable."

In 1989, the Israeli Embassy in Washington actively lobbied to block a US congressional measure to commemorate the Armenian genocide. In that instance, the Foreign Ministry chided embassy officials for their excessive involvement in an issue that embarrassed Jerusalem.

ISRAEL'S official, though unspoken, policy on Armenia has also kept government representatives away from the Armenians' commemoration of the genocide, held every April 24 - the day in 1915 on which 300 Armenian leaders were rounded up, deported, and killed in Turkey, setting off the beginning of an 18-month campaign of deportation and mass murder.

With the exception of former absorption minister Yair Tzaban, who attended the ceremony in 1995, Sarid is the only minister to participate in the memorial. Not surprisingly, Sarid's speech prompted an outcry in Turkey that included a protest to Israel's charg* d'affaires in Ankara.

In response, a Foreign Ministry source was quoted as saying "it's a pity that Sarid made a decision on such as sensitive topic without consulting us first and without raising the subject in any government forum."

The pragmatic reasons for Israel's position are clear. Turkey is one of Israel's most important and strategically positioned allies in the region, a Moslem ally with which Israel has growing military ties.

When France adopted a bill in 1998 recognizing the Armenian genocide, Turkey promptly suspended the signing of a $145 million defense contract.

BUT realpolitik has its price. In siding with Turkey, Israel has placed itself in the uncomfortable - and bitterly ironic - position of colluding with a denier of genocide.

"There has been a tendency here to ignore the subject [of the Armenian genocide]," said Bauer.

"And on the part of some Israelis there is even support for denial," added the Holocaust expert, who praised Sarid's decision.

"Israel's attitude has very definitely constituted denial," asserted Charny.

The Lipstadt-Irving trial showed the world that denial of genocide can be done in sophisticated and indirect ways, added Charny, citing similarities between Irving's claims and the type of arguments made by deniers of the Armenian genocide.

"In the wake of that trial, it becomes much more difficult to engage in double-talk about the Armenian genocide - the kind of double-talk we Israelis have been guilty of. We are left with a choice: Are we going to allow people to distort a genocide the way Irving does?"

THERE IS another reason why Israelis have preferred not to confront the Armenian genocide, one that has nothing to do with Turkey.

Few will say it aloud, but many fear that acknowledging the Armenian genocide will call into question the uniqueness of the Holocaust and somehow diminish its weight.

"For years it was a sin to mention genocide of other people," said Charny. "If you did, you were viewed as disloyal and a traitor to the Jewish people. This attitude of 'we're not gonna talk about the goyim's suffering' is a sad phase of immaturity and a betrayal of our ethics."

"As Jews and as human beings we should care very deeply about other people who were victims of genocide. And we should realize that doing so does not diminish the enormity of the Holocaust," said Charny, who edited the recently published Encyclopedia of Genocide.

In response to Sarid's decision, Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes Remembrance Authority, issued a press release saying it "supports the teaching of the subject of the Armenian genocide in schools and does not think that this will harm the study of the Holocaust, and that, if anything, the opposite is probably true."

"The way to establish the uniqueness of the Holocaust is by comparison," explained Bauer of Yad Vashem.

"The Holocaust was unprecedented. In order to establish that there was no precedent, you've got to compare it with other genocides. So I am very much in favor of teaching the Armenian genocide."

In fact, without putting the Holocaust into perspective, words like "unique" and "unprecedented" are fast becoming empty slogans for many Israeli students, said one educator who is deeply involved in the subject.

THE HANDFUL of educators who have exposed their students to the Armenian genocide - which is not part of the school curriculum - have seen surprising results.

Since 1995, Orit Shimoni, a teacher at Ramot Hefer High School in the Sharon region, has taught the subject to her 11th-grade history students. Interestingly, she said, the students emerged with a much deeper awareness of the Holocaust.

"They told me that learning about the Armenian genocide had shown them how easy it is to simply forget and ultimately deny a genocide. They were shocked and shaken by this," said Shimoni.

"They felt it was more important than ever to read and talk about the Holocaust constantly in order to ensure that it is never forgotten."

The study module used by Shimoni was developed by Dr. Yair Auron of the Seminar Hakibbutzim State Teachers' College and was initially slated for use in a country-wide pilot program for 11th-grade history students.

Called "Sensitivity to the Suffering of the World: Genocide in the 20th Century," the program was written by Auron in 1994, following a decision by then education minister Amnon Rubinstein to introduce the study of the Armenian genocide into the school curriculum.

The program - separate from the study of the Holocaust - was to have looked at genocide in general, focusing mainly but not exclusively on the Armenian and Gypsy examples.

But Auron's study program was rejected by an Education Ministry committee which called it unbalanced. Proponents of the program suspect that Turkish pressure may have been the real reason for its rejection - a charge denied by the Education Ministry.

WHATEVER the reason, the result is not open to debate. Rubinstein's decision was not implemented and, with the exception of a few classrooms in the country like Shimoni's, the vast majority of Israeli high-school students do not study the subject of genocide - with the obvious exception of the Holocaust - from a broad perspective.

Auron, whose book on the Armenian genocide, The Banality of Indifference, was published in the US last month, applauded Sarid's decision to teach the topic.

He said that surveys he has conducted on college and university students show that some 85 percent know very little or nothing about the Armenian genocide, a fact Sarid referred to in his speech last month.

It's not clear whether Auron's original program on genocide is to be revived.

"I don't care whether it's my program that is used or another one - as long as the subject is taught," said the historian, who now teaches a similar course to college students at Seminar Hakibbutzim and is developing one for Tel Aviv's Open University.

If the Armenian genocide is taught, as Sarid promised, it will be as part of an elective course on genocide, probably one of some 20 or so topics that high-school students specializing in history can choose from. That's not quite a revolution, but it's still a sharp policy change for Israel - and a first step in breaking a national taboo.

But if, as appears increasingly likely, Sarid carries out his threat to resign over the transfer of funds to Shas's educational system, then for most Israeli students, the Armenian genocide will most likely revert to the dustbin of forgotten history.

Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 05:01 AM.


#28 Vigil

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 11:26 PM

Is Turkey's relationship with Israel a "brotherly" one or could it just be described as blackmail?

It seems to me that if Israel does not grow some balls it may end up being Turkey's bitch for a long time, but again that is just some observational facts.

Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 05:01 AM.


#29 koko

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 07:27 AM

turks and israelis are taught to think the same way ( by their goverment). They have occupied someone elses lands ( the least they have done), and they continuesly deny that.

as for the armenians, they real defenders of israel, avoid to mention them or the palestinians in the same context if they are dicussing politics and israel.
Plz, we dont give a damn if they LIKE us or not. What really matters is what they DO and not say.

Edited by koko, 28 April 2004 - 07:30 AM.


#30 Iran Forever

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE(Vigil @ Apr 22 2004, 11:26 PM) View Post
Is Turkey's relationship with Israel a "brotherly" one or could it just be described as blackmail?

It seems to me that if Israel does not grow some balls it may end up being Turkey's bitch for a long time, but again that is just some observational facts.

Turkey and Azerbaijan have become Israel's bitches. Azerbaijan is Israel's second largest supplier of oil, and the REAL intent behind the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline was to get Caspian oil to Turkey's Mediterranean port of Ceyhan, from there it is a short Mediterranean cruise down to Israel, and these oil barges would be protected by the U.S. Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean (the Fifth Fleet is in Bahrain in the Persian Gulf protecting oil barges there). Israel will be getting her oil easier this way.

The same Israel that is rapidly Judaizing Muslim and Christian holy places in Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, holy to Christians, is becoming all Jewish, the Palestinian population living in the area (known to Arabs as Jabal Zaytoon) being moved out. Islam and Christianity have become captives to Zionism. Christian Palestinians have suffered the most, caught in the middle of a daily battle between Israeli settlers who are Jewish extremists of the worst kind (plus the brutal Israeli army) on one side, and radical Islamic groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the other. Thousands of Christian Palestinians have left Palestine, and the Land of Christ is becoming devoid of Christians.

One reason Turkey supports Israel is because Turkey like Israel, is a pariah in the world of civilized nations, and like Israel, has very few friends. So countries with no friends find each other. Another reason is, Turkey hates Arabs...the Arabs joined the British in kicking the Turks out during WWI (now as much as I despise Turkey and its Ottoman past, if the Arabs had not employed British help for their liberation, the Zionist state of Israel would not have been created, and neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan would have their Jewish protector around...so the irony is, this actually benefited the Turks in the long run)...also Turks wonder why Muslim Arabs would join non-Muslim British in kicking out Muslim Turks. But then Turks take very little time to look at how they oppressed the Arabs throughout Ottoman rule.

Edited by Iran Forever, 09 July 2006 - 08:20 PM.


#31 Eurocentric

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 09:45 AM

QUOTE(Iran Forever @ Jul 9 2006, 08:19 PM) View Post
Turkey and Azerbaijan have become Israel's bitches. Azerbaijan is Israel's second largest supplier of oil, and the REAL intent behind the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline was to get Caspian oil to Turkey's Mediterranean port of Ceyhan, from there it is a short Mediterranean cruise down to Israel, and these oil barges would be protected by the U.S. Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean (the Fifth Fleet is in Bahrain in the Persian Gulf protecting oil barges there). Israel will be getting her oil easier this way.

The same Israel that is rapidly Judaizing Muslim and Christian holy places in Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, holy to Christians, is becoming all Jewish, the Palestinian population living in the area (known to Arabs as Jabal Zaytoon) being moved out. Islam and Christianity have become captives to Zionism. Christian Palestinians have suffered the most, caught in the middle of a daily battle between Israeli settlers who are Jewish extremists of the worst kind (plus the brutal Israeli army) on one side, and radical Islamic groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the other. Thousands of Christian Palestinians have left Palestine, and the Land of Christ is becoming devoid of Christians.

One reason Turkey supports Israel is because Turkey like Israel, is a pariah in the world of civilized nations, and like Israel, has very few friends. So countries with no friends find each other. Another reason is, Turkey hates Arabs...the Arabs joined the British in kicking the Turks out during WWI (now as much as I despise Turkey and its Ottoman past, if the Arabs had not employed British help for their liberation, the Zionist state of Israel would not have been created, and neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan would have their Jewish protector around...so the irony is, this actually benefited the Turks in the long run)...also Turks wonder why Muslim Arabs would join non-Muslim British in kicking out Muslim Turks. But then Turks take very little time to look at how they oppressed the Arabs throughout Ottoman rule.


Very well said!

#32 gamavor

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 03:37 PM

Don't fool yourselves. Brits are the same bastards as the Turks. They should equally share the responsibility for the Armenian genocide with Turks and Germans.

PS: The modern Arab (Moslem) terrorists are stupid. Instead of killing indiscriminately and thus antagonizing the whole world against them, they should target only Anglo-Saxons and Jews, because those are their real enemies.

#33 Yervant1

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:09 AM

TRIPADVISOR. DO NOT FORGET TO WALK THROUGH ARMENIAN QUARTER WHEN VISITING JERUSALEM

16:14, 28 July, 2015

JERUSALEM, JULY 28, ARMENPRESS. The most famous tourist information
center Tripadvisor made a list of sights which are mandatory to be
visited during a holiday in Jerusalem. As "Armenpress" reports, the
list titled "30 places that must be visited in Jerusalem" includes
also ceramic art center of Armenian masters located in the old city
of Jerusalem and the Armenian quarter in Jerusalem.

"Ceramic art center in the old city of Jerusalem is one of the rare
places where one can buy unique ceramic items made by the hands of
Armenian masters. They will become both reminiscence and the best
present from Jerusalem", the article informs.

As concerns to the Armenian quarter of Jerusalem, it was found that
it is one of the most favorite places of tourists.

"The Armenian quarter of Jerusalem is a part of the local color of
this fantastic city. It is the best place for leisure, where it is
necessary to walk. This is a part of the city which is exceptional,
unique, interesting and one will never forget it once they visit it.

The city square is in harmony with the surrounding streets. The narrow
streets, unique buildings, the market are so harmonious and combine
several centuries and cultures. It is just wonderful to walk through
the narrow streets of the quarter, breath the air full of history and
be happy by the fact that you managed to feel the spirit of the past",
the article says.

The specialists of Tripadvisor make different rankings based on the
notes made by both tour guides and tourists.

http://armenpress.am...-jerusalem.html
 






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