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#1 Teutonic Knight

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Posted 13 October 2003 - 02:00 PM

Pardon my ignorance but how come there is a separate Christian Quarter and an Armenian Quater?

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#2 America-Hye

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Posted 13 October 2003 - 02:55 PM

The Armenians had alliances which helped them retain one quarter many, many centuries ago. Also, they were considered outside of the realm of Western Christianity.

#3 bellthecat

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Posted 13 October 2003 - 03:15 PM

Becasue the "Christian quarter" was really the "Greek Orthodox Church quarter" to start with.

#4 Teutonic Knight

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 07:23 PM

Here's what Jews think.
~~~

http://alfassa.com/armenians.html


Armenian Propaganda Campaign Alive and Well in Jerusalem
23 September 2003

By S. Alfassa for the Assembly of Turkish American Associations

I have just returned to the United States after spending a few months in Israel. As many people know, the Old City of Jerusalem has been subdivided into defacto ethnic divisions. There is the Jewish Quarter, the Christian Quarter, the very large Muslim Quarter, and the small Armenian Quarter. The Armenian quarter is small, but it's auspicious location allows for it to be used as a island of propaganda as the tourists walk right through their area on the famous descent to the Western Wall plaza.

The walls we see around the Old City were built by Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent in the sixteenth century, roughly following the course of the walls built by the Romans in the 2nd century. To enter the Old City there are several gate, including the Jaffa Gate and the Zion's Gate. The Jaffa Gate lets you into a mixed Arab and Armenian area, and the Zion's Gate lets you into the Armenian quarter proper. These two gates, especially the latter, is a primary entrance for tourists arriving in the Old City. Tour buses holding tourists from nations across the globe park outside the Zion's gate, then walk their groups up the hill, through the gate Suleiman constructed to defend the city, then walk these tourists into the arms of the Armenian propagandists.

Zion's gate (Bab Nabi Daud) was built for Sultan Suleiman in 1540 so that he may visit the Tomb of Kind David which is nearby outside the city walls. On the stone walls which make up the gate, as well as on the walls throughout the Armenian quarter are large white posters, entitled 'Map of the Armenian Genocide.' They are more than an eyesore, they are revisionist history at its finest. Measuring almost a meter long, and ѕ of a meter high printed in black and red, these ubiquitous posters usually gather large crowds which stand reading their misinformation. On both sides of the map (which contains cities colored with blood-red circles) are photos of dead bodies. After tourists see these signs, which would catch anyone's attention, they then go to the store owners, the locals, who then get to reinforce their version of what happened during the war years of 1915-1923.

The Armenians and their church in Jerusalem act as if they were saints during the war, equating their plight to the Jews during the Holocaust. What they don't tell you is that witnesses saw truck loads of arms and ammunition taken out of their churches in 1915. I quote the respected Turkish-born Albert Amateau. A descendant of Jews who were expelled from Spain in 1492 and settled in the Ottoman Empire, his grandfather later rose to hold the post of Hahambashi of Palestine. Before he died at the age of 106, Amateau documented his personal observations in his: "Sworn Statement of Albert J. Amateau on the allegations that Armenians suffered "genocide" by the government of the Ottoman Empire:

"If 1.5 million Armenian lost their lives during that war, they died as soldiers, fighting a war of their own choosing against the Ottoman Empire which had treated them decently and benignly. They were the duped victims of the Russians, of the Allies, and of their own Armenian leaders."

These placards proclaiming "Map of the Armenian Genocide" have been posted for many years now, and they are replaced when they fade or occasionly are torn. Though the posting of these signs in the Old City are illegal, they are put on with a sticky substance which does not allow for their complete removal. The police and the city of Jerusalem do not enforce their own sign ordinances in regards to these illegal postings, and thus a new generation of people are getting a daily dose of dishonesty and revisionism.

###

--S. Alfassa is a vice-president with the Foundation for the Advancement of Sephardic Studies and Culture. He holds both American and Israeli citizenship, his family is from Edirne.


Note: Albert Amateau's complete statement is located at http://www.sephardic...es.org/aa3.html

#5 Teutonic Knight

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 07:23 PM

Armenian patriarch bemoans `harassment' by extremist Jews

By Amiram Barkat



The Armenian patriarch of Israel, Archbishop Torkom Manoogian, yesterday complained to Interior Minister Avraham Poraz of harassment by `extremist' Jews.


"They [the Jews] spit on us and swear at us when I or our people walk down the street," Manoogian told Poraz.

He made the complaint during a round of meetings that the minister was holding with leaders of Israel's Christian communities, following the transfer of the department for non-Jewish communities from the defunct Religious Affairs Ministry to the Interior Ministry.

Poraz asked police officers at the meeting why the police were not making efforts to arrest those who torment the archbishop and his people. The officers replied that the police safeguard religious processions, but lack the means to guard every monk.

All the community leaders asked Poraz to facilitate the procedures for obtaining entrance visas to Israel for religious figures. Some religious leaders also complained that they were forced to undergo humiliating physical examinations on entering Israel via the Allenby Bridge border terminal. The Coptic archbishop, Anba Abraham, said that he was forced to take his shoes off for the examination and that the cross he wears on his chest was taken by the guards for inspection.

Poraz told them that he would look into the situation and try to solve their problems.


http://www.haaretz.c...ges/382294.html

#6 America-Hye

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 08:49 PM

Some insignificant A*****E posting o his website. What about the 125 prominent Jews who signed the Genocide Declaration in the NY Times. GTeuton, get in bed with your fag boy Hitler.

#7 America-Hye

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 08:52 PM

A few bigoted Jews in Jerusalem and you paint them all with one brush. I guess Archbishop Torkom Manoogian walking arm-in-arm with Arafat just makes the Jews love us so much more, huh??

#8 Teutonic Knight

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 09:07 PM

Degenerate freak, you can shove your insults up your bisexual ass.
The only people who resemble the likes of Hitler in any way are your Zionist butt buddies.
~~~


Sworn Statement of Albert J. Amateau on the
allegations that Armenians suffered "genocide" by
the government of the Ottoman Empire

On this eleventh day of October in the year of 1989, there appeared before me, a notary public duly commissioned by the State of California, Albert J. Amateau, known to me. In my presence the said Albert J. Amateau duly took the required oath and affixed his signature to this instrument as well as to every page of the attached Statement of Facts (nine pages), declaring it to be an integral part of his sworn statement.

Wendy O'Steen, Notary Public - California, Principal Office in Sonoma County,
My Commission Expires December 1, 1992, Signed and Sealed
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6- 7 - 8 - 9 - 10

Albert J. Amateau, residing at #413 Oak Vista Drive, in the village of Oakmont, City of Santa Rosa, County of Sonoma in the State of California, being duly sworn, deposes that he has prepared and hereby submits the attached statement containing (a) facts, (cool.gif extracts from published and/or uttered communications which disprove the allegations of Armenians that their ethnic brethren suffered genocide by the government of the Ottoman Empire in 1915-1923.

These facts are submitted to oppose approval of resolution S.J.212, introduced by the Honorable Robert Dole, Senator and Republican leader of the United States Senate, at the first session of the 101st Congress of the United States. The said resolution seeks to designate April 24, 1990, as the "National Day of Remembrance" of the 75th anniversary of the alleged Armenian genocide of 1915-1923 perpetrated by the government of the Ottoman Empire.

I was born in Milas, Turkey, on April 20, 1889. In 1905 I was a student at the American Internatioal College in Izmir (Smyrna), Turkey. At the time, The Reverend John McGlaglan was President and I attended classes in English conducted by Professors Lawrence and Evan-Jones. These details to make it possible to ascertain the truth of my statements.

There, I became acquainted and friendly with many Turkish born Armenian students, most of whom were my seniors. Because my Grandfather, whose name I bear, had been the French Consul in Izmir, I was mistakenly considered a Christian and a Frenchman. The Armenian students felt that they could freely discuss their membership in Armenian secret societies, i.e., Huntchak and Tashnak Zutiun, and their active participation in secret military exercises to prepare themselves for military duty in their planned subversive war against the Ottoman Empire and nation. In alliance and collaboration with Tsarist Russia.

In 1906 a number of wealthy Armenians in Izmir were assessinated. Mr. Hayik Balgosian and his friend, Mr. Artin Balokian, had been shot by two men in front of the Balgosian mansion in Karatash, an affluent section of Izmir. Days later, the large establishment in the center of the Izmir Bazaar, the SIVRI-SSARIAN, wholesale dry goods warehouse and store, was bombed. Mr. Agop Sivri-Ssarian and a number of his Armenian employees were killed. The perpetrators then sent secret messages, in Armenian printed lettering, threatening a number of Armenian merchants, doctors, lawyers and architects - unless they "contributed" the sums the leaders of the secret societies had assessed, the recepients would suffer the same fate as Balgosian and Sivri-Ssarian.

A majority of these addresses must have "contributed". A few, who evidently were satisfied with their economic, social and political status, did not approve of the plans for subversion and rebellion. They informed the Izmir Police of their suspicion of the identity of the leaders of the secret societies and that the Apostoloc Armenian church on ERMENI MAHALLESI, the main Armenian quarters in Izmir, was possibly the repository of arms and ammunition for the planned rebellion.

I witnessed the police raid on that church; and the truck loads of arms and ammunition which were taken out. Also the arrest of five priests and a number of other Armenians who were in the church at the time of the raid, including a few of my fellow students of the American College. Evidently I had not taken the disclosures of my fellow students seriously enough. Also, I could not understand the Armenian logic for rebellion against a country that had given its ethnic minorities the right to observe and practise their religion, conduct schools for the instruction of their young in their ethnic language and favored many of them with positions of trust. I knew of many Armenians in important positions in the Ottoman Treasury, Foreign Affairs, and as functionaries as consuls,.

I knew of many affluent Armenian doctors, attorneys and even a couple of bankers and architects. It was well known that the Armenians were the merchant princes of the Empire and that the Sultan favored them, especially because, of all the ethnic communities, they were the only ones who spoke the difficult Turkish language as a second language to their own Armenian.

Armenian terrorists in the United States and their duped friends have made it a career to assassinate Turkish consular officilas, supposedly in revenge for the alleged Armenian massacre in 1915. Their prelates, leaders, and even our own California governor, Mr. Deukmejian, have not seen fit to express their disapproval, and by their silence have tacitly approved of the assassinations. The leaders of the secret Armenian societies, Huntchak and Tashnak Zutiun, have continued their nefarious activities by agitating for the introduction of their alleged genocide into the instruction program of the public schools of the State of California.

They have also been able, through their boast of one million Armenian votes, to influence State representatives in passing laws to place their Armenian program for a motion picture into operation.

Now they are trying to have the Congress of the United States pass a resolution to designate April 24, 1990, as the 75th anniversary of their alleged genocide of 1.5 million Armenians by the "Ottoman Turks in 1915". I am amazed that intelligent and politically astute gentlemen, such as Senator Robert Dole, the leader of the Republicans in the Senate, and others, his colleagues, have been importuned to sponsor that resolution without any proof of the veracity of the Armenian claims. There is no doubt in my mind that Senator Dole and his colleagues are honest and honorable men. They have been duped to believe the Armenian allegations as true.

To establish the truth to the satisfaction of the Senators, I am submitting extracts from statements - in fact, avowais - by Armenian leaders in their addresses and/or communications with their adherents. These extracts, and the entire statements, are unimpeachable, and the veracity of my quotes can be easily ascertained. I am also submitting statements of others, but especially of Professor John Dewey, of Columbia University, who investigated the Armenian claims of genocide.

a) EXTRACTS from the November 1914 issue of the OFFICIAL ARMENIAN GAZETTE HUNTCHAK, published in Paris, France, by the Armenian Revolutionary Committee of the ARMENIAN NATION. This was a CALL TO ARMS! "...The entire ARMENIAN NATION will join forces - moral and material, and waving the sword of REVOLUTION, will enter this World conflict.... as comrades in arms of the Triple Entente, and particularly RUSSIA. They will cooperate with the ALLIES, making full use of all political and revolutionary means for the final victory of Armenia, Cilicia, Caucasus, Azerbayjan.... heroes who will sacrifice their lives for the great cause of Armenia....Armenians proud to shed their blood for the cause of Armenia...." -Please note the date. It was even before the declaration of war.

cool.gif EXTRACTS from a letter dated JANUARY 27, 1918, and published in the LONDON TIMES on JANUARY 30, 1918, signed by BOGHOS NUBAR, the recognized leader of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, TASHNAK ZUTIUN. This was a complaint that the Allies had refused to invite the ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY COMMITTEE HUNTCHAK to the PEACE CONFERENCE at which the treaty between Turkey and the Allies was signed in Lauzanne, Switzerland.

"...The unspeakable sufferings and the dreadful losses that have befallen the Armenian Nation by reason of their faithfulness to the Allies.... The fact well known only to a few that ever since the beginning of the war, Armenians fought by the side of the Allies on all fronts... Armenians have been belligerents 'de facto' since their indignant refusal to side with the Turks... our volunteers fought in Syria and Palestine (at the time part of the Ottoman Empire) in the decisive victory of General Allenby.... After the breakdown of Russia, the Armenian legions were the only forces to resist the advances of the Turks whom they held in check until the armistice was signed. Thus they helped the British forces in Mesopotamia (at the time also part of the Ottoman Empire) by hindering the German/Turkish forces from sending troops elsewhere."

----Please note the reference to refusal to side with the Turks, the nation where they were born and of which they were a part. There is no claim of genocide.

c) EXTRACTS from the MANIFESTO, delivered by His Excellency, HOVHANES KATCHAZOUNI, PRIME MINISTER of the ARMENIAN REPUBLIC (established after the First World War) at the CONVENTION of the ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY FEDERATION, in Bucharest, Romania, JULY 1923. This was in the nature of a report. "...In the fall of 1914, when Turkey had not yet entered the war but was already making preparations, Armenian revolutionary bands began to form with great enthusiasm...

The ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY FEDERATION had active participation in the formation of these bands and the military action against TURKEY... In the fall of 1914 Armenian volunteer bands fought against TURKEY... This was an inevitable result of the psychology on which the Armenian Nation had been nourished during an entire generation... the winter of 1914 and the spring of 1915 were periods of great activity, greatest enthusiasm and hopes... We had no doubt that the war would end with complete victory for the Allies and Turkey would be defeated and dismembered, and its Armenian population would at least be liberated... We had embraced Russia wholeheartedly without any compun(...)... we believed that the Tsarist government would grant us self government in the Caucasus and in the Armenian vilayets (Turkish provinces where many Armenians resided), liberated from Turkey, as a reward for our loyalty, our efforts and our assistance. Unfortunately Russia did not keep its word..."

One and a half million Armenians are claimed to have been massacred. The avowals of their leaders prior to and after the First World War prove that there had been no massacre - their leaders would have referred to it or claimed it as their calamity, or at least as their contribution to the Allied cause. The allegations of massacre and/or genocide are a later invention to compel the new Turkish Republic to cede to them the five vilayets where they had installed the Armenian Republic, which they later had to give up to the Turkish Republic after a brief war. The Armenians have ever since been trying to obtain either the territory to add to the Russian Armenian Republic, or a large sum of money as the price for stopping the terrorism.

The Armenian people must blame their own leaders and their secret revolutionary societies for the subversive actions which led to their participation in the war with the Allies. They can blame Russia for reneging on its promise, and the Allies for not giving them due credit for their help, but they certainly have no reason to blame the Turkish Republic and/or even the now defunct Ottoman Empire, as their own leaders confessed. Let us now see what Professor John Dewey, of Columbia University, has to say -a broad minded Christian gentleman who went to the Middle East in 1928 to investigate the Armenian claims of genocide. This is extracted from his report published in THE NEW REPUBLIC, vol. 40, November 12, 1928:

"Few Americans who mourn, and justly, the miseries of the Armenians, are aware that till the rise of the nationalistic ambitions, beginning with the 70s, the Armenians were the favored portion of the population of Turkey; or that in the Great War, they treacherously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invaders; that they have boasted og having raised a hundred and fifty thousand (150,000) men to fight a civil war, that they burned at least one hundred (100) Turkish villages and exterminated their populations. I do not mention these things by way of appraising or extenuating blame, because the story of provocations and reprisals is as futile as it is endless. Finally, one recalls that the Jews took their abode in "fanatic" Turkey when they were expelled from Europe, especially Spain, by "Saintly" Christians, and they have lived in Turkey for some centuries, at least in as much tranquility and liberty as their fellow Muslim Turks, all being exposed alike to the rapacity of their common rulers. To one brought up, as most Armenians have been, in the Gladstonian and foreign missionary traditions, the condition of the Jews of Turkey is almost a mathematical demonstration that religious differences had no influence in the tragedy of Turkey, only as they were combined with the aspirations for political separation, which every nation in the world would have treated as treasonable..."

Professor Dewey had evidently not been told of the rejection by the Jewish Communities of Turkey of the appeals by the European Zionists for political and financial assistance. Insofar as the Jews of Turkey were concerned, the Zionist proposals were "subversive", unless and until the Ottoman government agreed to them. At no time did the Jews of Turkey nurse aspirations for political separation from their Ottoman saviors, who had received them when no other country allowed their either entry or residence. In 1922 in Izmir, Kemal Ataturk, when he captured 100,000 Greek soldiers who had been allowed by the Allied governments to invade and occupy Turkey in Asia, said: "OF ALL THE ETHNIC MILLETS (Communities) THE JEWS ELECTED TO REMAIN LOYAL TO THEIR MOTHERLAND." Now for a brief view of Armenian atrocities against Muslim and Jews - EXTRACTS from a letter dated December 11, 1983, published in the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, as an answer to a letter that had been published in the same journal under the signature of one B. AMARIAN, claiming 1.5 million victims of genocide by the Ottoman Turks:

"..We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian atrocities against our people (Jews) which preceded the so-called massacre of Armenians which you allege in 1915. Members of our family witnessed the murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum, Turkey, by Armenian neighbors, bent on destroying anything and anybody remotely Jewish and/or Muslim. Armenians should look to their own history and see the havoc they and their ancestors perpetrated upon their neighbors... Armenians were in league with HITLER in the last war, on his promise to grant them self government if, in return, the Armenians would help exterminate Jews... Armenians were also hearty proponents of the anti-semitic acts in league with the Russian Communists. Mr Amarian! Prove that, as you say, a large scale massacre of Armenians occured. I don't need your bias." Signed ELIHU BEN LEVI, Vacaville, California. Attached as the last page of this statement is proof of Armenian collaboration with Hitler.

My friend, Franz Werfel, of Vienna, Austria, a writer, wrote a book entitled THE 40 DAYS AT MUSSA DAGH, a history of the massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Turks. The story was told him by his friend, the Armenian Bishop of Vienna and Werfel never doubted the Bishop's account. He did not investigate what he wrote. Years later, when the true facts about Mussa Dagh were established by the research of neutral investigators - which was never denied by the Armenians - Werfel discovered that he had been duped by his friend, the Bishop, with a concocted story. Werfel confessed to me his shame and remorse for hav

THE TRUTH

Fifty thousand Armenians, residents of villages in and around Erzurum in Turkey surreptiously ascended a mountain called Mussa Dagh (dagh is Turkish for mountain) with arms, ammunition, victuals and water, sufficient to withstand a siege of many days. Before ascending that mountain, they had captured hundreds of Muslim Turks and Jews, their fellow citizens and neighbors, with whom they were supposedly on good terms. They murdered them all in cold blood, for no other reason than they were Muslims and Jews. Thereafter, every night armed Armenian bands came down from that mountain and attacked the rear of the Ottoman and German armies fighting the Russian invaders. This was at the very beginning of the First World War, and part of the secret plans made by the Russians and assigned to the Armenian Revolutionary Federation. ing written that story, in which he had blamed the Ottomans as the aggressors and terrorists.

The Turks were mystified. The Armenian attackers would disappear. Try as they did, at first the Ottomans were unable to trace the disappearing Armenians, but finally they discovered that Mussa Dagh was the hiding place. The Ottomans found the mountain fortress unassailable. They laid siege and waited 40 days before the Armenian rear guard conceded defeat and laid down their arms. But the Ottoman forces found the mountain empty. The large army had disappeared down the other side of the mountain where they had found an exit to the Mediterranean. French and British men-of-war had been signalled and they picked up the main army, transporting the soldiers to Alexandria, Egypt, then under the control of the British. Less than 500, the rear guard who gave themselves up, were zaptured by the Ottomans.

Yet, in telling the story to Werfel to write, the Bishop had claimed 50,000 victims captured and put to death - an invented story, just as is the story of 1.5 million massacred in 1915. If 1.5 million Armenian lost their lives during that war, they died as soldiers, fighting a war of their own choosing against the Ottoman Empire which had treated them decently and benignly. They were the duped victims of the Russians, of the Allies, and of their own Armenian leaders. A few thousand Armenians may have lost their lives during their relocation, caused by their own subversion.

In making this expose of the truth and disclosing my home address, I know that I risk Armenian harrassment. I have already been subjected to telephone and written threaths! However, the truth must be told. As one born in the Ottoman Empire, from which I emigrated in 1910 and have never returned to live, I must declare:

1) I am not and never have been employed or paid by any government in Turkey.

2) I am not now and never have been financially interested in any business in Turkey.

3) My parents died before the Second World War. My sister and brother-in-law, residents of the Island of Rhodes, were captured and murdered by Hitler's Nazis. I have no relatives or friends in Turkey. It should be evident that I have no motive in taking the risk, other than my conscientious duty to tell the truth out of my love for my native land. I beg the Honorable Senators and other government officials to demand from the Armenians proof of their claims and explanation of the statement of avowals made by their own leaders. Under the circumstances and in view of the above proof, I cannot conceive that the Senators can in good conscience pass that resolution.

It is not enough to say that they do not mean to hurt the Turks or Turkish/American relations. By entertaining that resolution without proof, they are actually going against the interests of Turkey and the safety of the United States and of NATO.


Albert J. Amateau

#9 America-Hye

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 09:47 PM

Hundreds of scholars from around the world have affirmed the Genocide. Why do you bring up these isolated incidents? Do you have an ax to grind?? Do you think that we don't know that parts of the Jewish establishment are working as Turkish agents in the US?

#10 Teutonic Knight

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE (America-Hye @ Jan 25 2004, 09:47 PM)
Hundreds of scholars from around the world have affirmed the Genocide. Why do you bring up these isolated incidents? Do you have an ax to grind?? Do you think that we don't know that parts of the Jewish establishment are working as Turkish agents in the US?

99% of all jewish organizations.
A few isolated cases of jews who accept that "Armenian tragedies" occured doesn't count. Yair Auron=good cop bad cop.

Don't give that crap about Israeli alliance with Turkey.
Armenia has an alliance with Iran yet how many Armenian revisionists are there examining the so called "holocaust"?
NONE

#11 America-Hye

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 10:33 PM

99%?? Can you statistically document this??Where did you get that figure??Did you do a statistical study??

#12 gamavor

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 11:21 PM

QUOTE (America-Hye @ Jan 26 2004, 02:49 AM)
Some insignificant A*****E posting o his website. What about the 125 prominent Jews who signed the Genocide Declaration in the NY Times. GTeuton, get in bed with your fag boy Hitler.

American-Hyria, how come the voice and authority of 125 prominent Jewish scholars cannot be heard and respected, and the voice of sole Sefaradic Jew activist be acnowleged? Don't you feel a part of a dirty game?

#13 America-Hye

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 12:21 AM

It has to do wih Turkish manipulation of regional conflicts. I am not a heria you esh.

#14 Stormig

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Posted 26 January 2004 - 12:35 AM

Looks like Tevtonagan and Amerikanski Hye have become family.

#15 Vigil

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 02:02 AM

QUOTE
Some insignificant A*****E posting o his website. What about the 125 prominent Jews who signed the Genocide Declaration in the NY Times. GTeuton, get in bed with your fag boy Hitler.


Why is it significant that 126 Prominant Jews signed a declaration? So how has this helped or enlightened the situation when the Jewish Government is against the Armenian Genocide? How can the sheep stay on the right track when the sheperd goes the other direction? How is this significant and why do you bring it up? Is this suppose to some how insist that the "So-Called" Genocide actually occured?

Its like 126 Armenian Holocaust Schalors signing a declaration affirming the "So-Called" Holocaust when we already know the Holocaust is a fact etched in stone just like the Armenian Genocide.

Also, there are Jews in Armenia how come we allow them to own property without any restrictions? How come we respect there culture and affirm there suffering? How come we should be "nice" to them, while they turn around and back stab us?

I want to state that Jews in Armenia are Armenian if they choose to be Armenian (Note: I do not wish to be rude to them if they are actually reading this because in my opinion they are now genetically more Armenian then Israel in fact any jew by blood has virtually no relationship to his ancestor), but I was talking to my Persian Jewish friend and he somwhat placed himself as a Jew rather then a Persian. Its just somthing to think about when 400 Jews in Armenia have become 2000 by intermarrying with Armenians. I am not trying to be "anti-semetic", but I call it how it is.

I try not to touch on this sensitive issue because I do not want to be a hate monger, Nazi, or a Ottomon supporter, but it is tragic that two cultures who have somewhat walked the same path in the world have to confront one another rather then work together.

Edited by Vigil, 31 May 2004 - 03:29 AM.


#16 hytga

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 02:54 PM

QUOTE
a) EXTRACTS from the November 1914 issue of the OFFICIAL ARMENIAN GAZETTE HUNTCHAK, published in Paris, France, by the Armenian Revolutionary Committee of the ARMENIAN NATION. This was a CALL TO ARMS! "...The entire ARMENIAN NATION will join forces - moral and material, and waving the sword of REVOLUTION, will enter this World conflict.... as comrades in arms of the Triple Entente, and particularly RUSSIA. They will cooperate with the ALLIES, making full use of all political and revolutionary means for the final victory of Armenia, Cilicia, Caucasus, Azerbayjan.... heroes who will sacrifice their lives for the great cause of Armenia....Armenians proud to shed their blood for the cause of Armenia...." -Please note the date. It was even before the declaration of war.

Guess what? there was no Azerbaijan in 1914. If in any way armenians referred to azerbaijan would be atrpatakan, how can a statement in 1914 say "Azerbaijan"?

where did you get all this bs n e way?

#17 Armat

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Posted 04 April 2004 - 05:10 PM

Jewish love affair with the Turks regardless of the past discrimination by the Turks shows that in Jewish thought commerce and politics dominate morality. Few scholars with conscious stood up among many blind Zionists and for most part our problems are not their concern. We got nothing to sell them or have the money to purchase from hence they don’t give a farting and nor should we forthermore our church clergy should stay clear from Arab-Israeli conflict.Our church in Jerusalem has activily soppurted Arafat ,which to me is pointless.

#18 Vayri7X

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 11:55 AM

Question related to Armenian quarter, et al.

Parev all! ( I am back again } ;-) ) I am "glad " to see that our vociferous debating has not died down yet. But I have a related question for all of you interested in the Armenian community in the Holy Lands of Palestine and isrel.


Any suggestions as to what you , my fellow Armenians, would find valuable to be documented/studied/recorded in addition to our religious heritage in the Holy Lands of Palestine ? Would you suggest that I focus on oral histories? Photographic documentation? Taping the dialect and sayings to contribute to the maintenance our folklore and language? What would you all find interesting and meaningful to be documented ?


I am very excited to visit the Armenian Quarter in Jerusalem next year. I hope to visit our community at St. James , visit Baron Der and also the holy sites; i.e, the ones in Beit Sahur, Beit Jala and Bethlehem and gods willing, Nazareth. Maybe even go to Deir Zor for memorial and Lebanon for pilgrimage. ( Funds and godwilling !)

If all goes well , and I raise the money ( 7,000 - OUCH!!) , I plan to study for one year at Birzeit starting next February for the human rights/anthropology program & PAS . I will be studying Armenian with some community and faculty members and of course Arabic. Also, if possible, get some crash lessons in Hebrew ;-) -which I started at age 16, but couldn't finish. There is a REALLY interesting Jerusalem dialect of Armenian clap.gif !!! I will post the link here. soon smile.gif

The professors and staff at BZE have been very helpful in locating Armenian communities holding out in Ramallah and the other adjacent towns and villages. We have some really neat people along the Via Dolorosa and we are famous for our tileworks in Jerusalem. I hope to use my anthropological and further training during my study to do some documentary work on our community there. Although my Armenian is nowadays atrocious ( thanks to yermag chrt and moving so much in the US with no continuous Armenian community to be in here in the South sadangel.gif ) , I am hoping that I can contribute to our collective history and the maintenance of our heritage and history despite this,and especially re-learn Armenian ( I heard Western Armenian when I was partially raised by my grandfather, but they lost contact with relatives by having to move all over the US . The last time I heard it actively spoken in the family was by my Aunt Mryam Marian when I was 13 at a hantes sadangel.gif


Any productive suggestions would be helpful. And as far as what has been posted,
well,,, as Amira Haas, Adam Shapiro , Ali Abunima, Hagop Hagopian , Ghassan Andoni and various peace groups of Jewish membership and mixed Palestinian and other membership , and others (in and out of the Holy Land have proved), many if not all pro-justice people ARE anti-occupation and not anti-Jewish or anti-Arab .So if you answer, please , please , please my dears - I beg you !!! - do not try to " jew-bait" or " arab-bait" me. I wanna be positive here.

and BTw a late shnorhavour zadik !

#19 vava

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 09:52 PM

Hi Vayri! biggrin.gif - Nice to have you back! I hope you're doing well. While I can't help with advice about your upcoming trip (and what you're looking to learn) I can offer only encouragement, and the best of wishes... please keep us up to date on your travels....smile.gif

#20 Arpa

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Posted 20 April 2004 - 04:10 PM

Barev Vayri, welcome back.
You may already know about this.
Enjoy it anyway.

http://www.uwm.edu/~vaux/jerusalem.pdf




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