Dual Citizenship
#1
Posted 01 April 2004 - 02:13 PM
”Georgia has a sea, Azerbaijan has oil, and we have a Diaspora. Neither the first president, nor the present Authorities or Opposition profited by its potential”, Armen Zatikyan, USA’ “Justice” Bloc member said during the telephone conversation with us.
He is concerned about the state indifference towards Diaspora: ”Robert Kocharyan means ARF when saying Diaspora but the Armenians in Diaspora are neglected”.
Zatikyan says that Diaspora is remembered only during the TV-Marathons. ”We all know where the money goes to. Diaspora is treated like a milch cow”.
Mr Zatikyan voiced discontent over the Constitution in force, which deprives the Armenians in Diaspora of the chance for dual citizenship. He cited the example of Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili who granted the Georgians all over the world citizenship of Georgia.
”We are the only nation in the world to have 5 times more compatriots all over the world than residing in the homeland. It’s just a high treason not to use that potential”.
Armen Zatikyan also says that the state was to spend millions for education of the Armenian people abroad. Now they are multimillionaires, educated and skilled ones but they can’t serve their homeland. ”At present 2 million Armenians reside in USA. If every day each Armenian takes a dollar out of his pocket, it will be possible to support the homeland by $ 2 million daily. If each of them saves 10 $ Armenia will monthly prosper by $ 600 million. But no one takes us and our rights into consideration”.
Mr Zatikyan obliges Opposition to mention Diaspora in the programs. ”Opposition has gained 93% of votes from USA. We now demand to join for democracy and releasing power from those who seized it. Why doesn’t Opposition reckon with the Commune? ”.
http://www.tipsto.co...-tv/armenia.htm
#2
Posted 01 April 2004 - 02:39 PM
5 times??? hard to believe.
#3
Posted 01 April 2004 - 02:57 PM
Edited by Edward, 01 April 2004 - 02:58 PM.
#4
Posted 01 April 2004 - 03:05 PM
#5
Posted 01 April 2004 - 03:15 PM
for that and similar reasons they should start initial drafting and outline conditions such as you mantioned it, just simply ignoring the issue is stupid and counterproductive for ROA
#6
Posted 01 April 2004 - 03:17 PM
Yeah, I agree. That was actually one of Kocharian's promises when he became president. They are talking but that's all they do.
#7
Posted 01 April 2004 - 05:48 PM
I used to be very strong Kocharian's supporters but he proved to be just another typical dictator.
I use to be against violent overthroughs of governments but now I don't see any alternatives.Georgians forced old dog Shevy out and great for them.We should do the same however I don't see anyone with honesty and brains to replace Kocharian for now.
Dual citizenship is way overdue.I just hate Government parasites
that all they do is talk.One thing is true we are way smart screwing eachother up.
#8
Posted 01 April 2004 - 07:10 PM
#9
Posted 01 April 2004 - 11:43 PM
Edited by Vahe G., 01 April 2004 - 11:44 PM.
#10
Posted 02 April 2004 - 12:15 AM
#11
Posted 02 April 2004 - 12:28 AM
I agree with Vahe G that only when someone who deserves to take over Kocharians seat should be the time change takes place.
As far as dual citizenship goes I think somehow the diaspora needs to put more pressure on this dumb president. How about blackmailing? Perhaps Kerkorian and all the other big investors should threaten the government and say "Dual citizenship or we're out". If then the government still does not give in, and investments disappear look how fast a revolution will take place.
#12
Posted 02 April 2004 - 01:49 AM
And how do you suggest we do that?
I for one suggest writhing and making our voices heard in this issue, after all we were able to achieve much more over the years as Diaspora, in so many much more important issues concerning Armenians such as acceptance and recognition of AG, and for this as an example, if for a moment a Nation can/would unite, possibilities are endless, we just have to put our ideological differences aside and devote just fraction of our energy into this cause, and many such issues, I think this dual citizenship is just a test and small but essential hurdle to overcome, thus leading into "unification" and harmony leading "one nation one cause" mentality
#13
Posted 02 April 2004 - 12:36 PM
I also said the word "somehow", I didn't say I have the solution to this issue. I would hope others will share their thoughts on how it could be done.
Edward you mentioned "...if for a moment a Nation can/would unite, possibilities are endless, we just have to put our ideological differences aside and devote just fraction of our energy into this cause..."
Now I ask you, how do you suggest we do this? Let me tell you, it is almost impossible for us to put aside our ideological differences and unite. It might be much easier in the diaspora, but not over here.
The idiotic British Ambassador made that stupid comment, and some are talking about passing a law forbidding Genocide denial in Armenia, and many are saying our government should be more aggressive and confront the British government, but our government is too chicken shit to do that. They say "we can't risk having bad ties with the UK". GIVE ME A F-ED BREAK. How can our government not even pass such a simple law is beyond me.
Edited by Proud EXPAT, 02 April 2004 - 12:42 PM.
#14
Posted 04 April 2004 - 08:17 PM
If this day ever happened the way you describe it, I would be euphoric, while a romantic notion indeed, it’s not impossible by any means. Certainly those that survived the Armenian Genocide definitely deserve to gain citizenship without any formal procedures or pre-requisites. And the rest should have to undergo some reasonable requirements. While most Diasporans may not want to permanently move back to our homeland due to their current situation in their state of residence, a good way to allow dual citizenship is using what TAP likes to call, “Cumulative Visit Time Accumulation” (CVTA). For example, a law could be passed stating that if you are of Armenian descent, and make cumulative visits for say 2 years total time spent in Armenia, then a citizenship can be granted. This way, the idea of “dropping everything” and moving just for citizenship will not scare away the mild mannered Diasporan that is not as passionate as yours truly. This cumulative system would allow a “30 something” that’s amidst a career, family, becoming rich/wealthy/powerful, etc, to essentially buy a summer home and visit our homeland a few months in the summer or for however many months he would like. Once the cumulative thresh-hold of 2 years total time spent in RoA has occurred, he could be given the right to citizenship, and for voting rights, another year or so of cumulative visit time could be added.
I think by implementing a system such as CVTA would be a win/win situation for all sides. The Diasporan would have a chance to gain his/her rightful citizenship but would not simply be “given” his citizenship, but instead would have to earn it via visits that are added to meet a required thresh-hold. This approach would be inviting to a Diasporan that would like to have citizenship but is not necessarily in a situation in his life where he can just drop everything and move to RoA for that citizenship. At the same time, while he/she is building accumulated time within our homeland, they will be adding revenue via “visitation spending” while there. And ultimately to gain voting rights, the additional cumulative time spent in RoA must be met.
For someone like me, that is saving up to in fact buy a secondary home in RoA, this situation would allow for much greater possibilities and flexibility toward earning that citizenship. Say if you have a very successful business that needs you 8 months out of the year, you could potentially use this type of a citizenship approach to take care of your financial issues while using time spent in RoA over say a few months a year as a means to also gain that citizenship that you would like to have. Ultimately with enough accumulated visit time, the voting rights that you want for your homeland can also be had.
Agreed, but what are everyone’s thoughts on a cumulative method of earning voting rights on Armenian soil?
I agree strongly. But while the parasitic officials under that regime are enjoying their feast at the cost of people’s well being, ignoring issues will be opted for if the issue at hand doesn’t somehow benefit the government officials on a personal level. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did start Diasporan citizenship offers at price of $49.99 going toward the Robert Kocharian and Company Retirement Fund. There are ways of snuffing out an oppressive regime while not hurting the people TOO MUCH, people will get hurt during a regime change no matter what, whether it's financially, emotionally, physically, etc, but the short and long run must be weighed before pulling the trigger of revolution. Stay tuned for more on this later.
Nicely put and very true. Citizenship must be earned, there is no exception to this rule. Otherwise we risk alienating a lot of Hyes that were born and live in RoA. In a sense it would be socially condescending of any Diasporan to not somehow earn his/her citizenship.
A progressive way of first earning citizenship then earning voting rights after being a citizen is a great idea. Again, I’d like to get everyone’s thoughts on whether cumulative CVTA method is a good one. What are it’s strengths and weaknesses? Also, please bare in mind that the CVTA way of earning citizenship and ultimately voting rights would ONLY apply to Diasporans, not odars. Odars should and must go through MUCH more stringent methods for citizenship to earn the rights of a citizen. Peronally, the Swiss mentality of “we have enough, we don’t need more citizens of non Swiss descent” is great, we do have enough and growing ever so slowly, but growing never the less, we just need to focus all of the Hye efforts to one epicenter, Armenia.
Discuss, discuss, discuss. MORE posts from all 1500 of you, come on, you can do it, send more PMs at the very least! Have a restful Sunday.
-The Armenian Pirate
Edited by TheArmenianPirate, 04 April 2004 - 08:19 PM.
#15
Posted 18 April 2004 - 01:38 PM
we as a family has decided that (me ,my wife and my 15 years old son )that if we under any sircumstance moved out of the middle east(where we dont feel at home any more)would be ROA.and for that reason we will visit there for the first time in our lives this summer.
now to move anywhere you have to start a business,many people adviced me against such a move because there exists an Armenian mafia which will take part of business profit, i dont know how much truth there is in that,guess I cannot find out until I visit there.
but on the other hand,I think that, given the chance Diaspora with its vast financial abilities and expertise in free interprise could take control of th economy of the entire Republic in no time at all,thereby gaining the scorn of the locals there, stressing division even more.
I think this point should be taken into consideration and foud a fair solution to it.
I cannot see myself going there buy a nice house a fancy car start a profitable business or establish a factory while the local Armenian next door enveys me.sure they might profit from my investment but still hasty moves could cause damage...
#16
Posted 19 April 2004 - 02:40 AM
Armat remember how they got rid of Demrchian? I was in Armenia at the time.
There was great excitement and grief alike, but what did the ROA get in return?
That's right: Robert.
#17
Posted 19 April 2004 - 11:06 AM
#18
Posted 19 April 2004 - 11:16 AM
Well, we already have a draft for the Plege of Loyalty (aka MJ's test for Armeniannes) in place
#19
Posted 21 April 2004 - 12:54 PM
#20
Posted 21 April 2004 - 01:49 PM
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