34 replies to this topic

[nairi]

Ani, Ed, and Movses, you're welcome. Not that I feel I did anything spectacular.

[Louise]

Մահուան մասին մտածելով եւ գրելով, թերեւս բարեկամանում ենք նրա հետ:
Տխուր եմ բայց հանգիստ

------------------------------------------------

It is a poem of Kevork Emine



SOUVIENS-TOI TOUJOURS DE LA MORT (traduction Louise Kiffer)


Souviens-toi toujours de la mort
Souviens-toi , non pas pour pleurer
Mais, - pour que tu saches -
Tout ce qu'il reste encore …à rire
Et…pour te réjouir.

Souviens-toi toujours de la mort
Non pas pour trouver insensé
Ce que tu dois faire,
Mais te dépêcher,
Puisqu'il y a du travail sous ce ciel.

Et ne te promène pas
Désoeuvré et abruti,
Dans ces pièces que… tu crois à toi.
Demain,
Dans la petite ou la grande,
Toi aussi, tu te coucheras… sur la table
Dans le cercueil tout neuf,
Pour…devenir poussière,
Et être évoqué seulement
Dans les avis de décès,
Les entretiens et les discours…

Souviens-toi toujours de la mort
Pour te rappeler pourquoi
Et ce que tu veux faire dans le monde.


KEVORK EMINE

[Harut]

Arpa you are seldom wrong and are right once again! I very much agree wiht the following comment you made:

"It may be a sad commentary that we are talking about death and thanatology, yet ironically, it seems some of our best and most lyrical works are about the subject."

I think death is is such a grandios and mysterious a subject that it piques our interests and plays upon many emotions well above all other subjects. My favorite poetry is of death and the dying. Sadly, I am past the love mumbo jumbo...lol.
I love the one by Teryan..beacause I personally reead so much longing to live between the lines of death. Maybe it is just my skewed interpretation of it....

i think there are different reasons why people write about death...

1. it is known that most writers, unless a commercial writer, are hopeless losers or mentally instable people, especially poets... so, it is just natual that they are looking for a way out, a solution... and death is the easest way out from the apperent misery...

2. poets like to be unique, different from others, from ordinary people... as discussed here before by nairi, a lot of them compare themselves with god... they like to think of themselves as above the rest... so, it is just natural that they talk/write about things that are not so common with the rest of the people, that are taboo... they just like to prove that they are different, that they can tackle questions that ordinary people can't... plus, the god syndrome makes them want to prove that they are above all, that they are not afraid of death, that they know things that others don't...

3. a lot of poets starve for recognition and attention... so, it is just natural that they write about controvertional and disturbing topics to attrack that so much wanted attention...

4. there are a lot of arenas of writing... some people write out of their imagination, some write about their daily reflections on life, etc. etc... but it every case writer's life experience has a great impact on his writing... and death is part of that life experience... and some people experience death a lot more than others... so, it is just natural that they at one point or another will have so much built-up inside about death that they will put it on paper...

5. it comes naturally to some people for an unexplanable reasons...

as you see from above, it just natural that poets will write about death...

[Ani]

i think there are different reasons why people write about death...

1. it is known that most writers, unless a commercial writer, are hopeless losers or mentally instable people, especially poets... so, it is just natual that they are looking for a way out, a solution... and death is the easest way out from the apperent misery...

2. poets like to be unique, different from others, from ordinary people... as discussed here before by nairi, a lot of them compare themselves with god... they like to think of themselves as above the rest... so, it is just natural that they talk/write about things that are not so common with the rest of the people, that are taboo... they just like to prove that they are different, that they can tackle questions that ordinary people can't... plus, the god syndrome makes them want to prove that they are above all, that they are not afraid of death, that they know things that others don't...

3. a lot of poets starve for recognition and attention... so, it is just natural that they write about controvertional and disturbing topics to attrack that so much wanted attention...

4. there are a lot of arenas of writing... some people write out of their imagination, some write about their daily reflections on life, etc. etc... but it every case writer's life experience has a great impact on his writing... and death is part of that life experience... and some people experience death a lot more than others... so, it is just natural that they at one point or another will have so much built-up inside about death that they will put it on paper...

5. it comes naturally to some people for an unexplanable reasons...

as you see from above, it just natural that poets will write about death...

i thought it is emotional instability...

[Arpa]

i think there are different reasons why people write about death...

1. it is known that most writers, unless a commercial writer, are hopeless losers or mentally instable people, especially poets... so, it is just natual that they are looking for a way out, a solution... and death is the easest way out

Harut, you ignore the main premise.
What I cannot understand is why Toumanian, who was a healthy, relatively prosperous writer, who fathered a dozen of chicks would have written about death, unless he was reflecting on the death of a dearly departed, be it friend, family or a poetic soul mate.
Beside the fact artists in general and poets in particular are extremely sensitive to the facts of life (and death).
We do understand why Dourian/Tourian(age 21), Terian (age 35) and Metsarents woud be so obsessed with death as they all lived in extreme poverty (is Metsarents an exception), and spent their adult(?) lives in the shadow of death, suffering the miseries of tuberculosis during the day and not knowing if they would wake up the next morning. It is understandable why they would seek answers in death that they could not find in life.
It is a wonder that Hacob Baronian beat the odds (of poverty) and lived into maturity while according to some rumors that upon his death his only worldy posessions were a slice of bread and a head of onion found in his pocket.
Does poetry bring misery or misery brings poetry? And, of course, we know that some poetry is a product of joy, just as an "ode to joy" (Bethoven Symphony #9.)

[Harut]

Harut, you ignore the main premise.

i didnt' understand what you mean...

What I cannot understand is why Toumanian, who was a healthy, relatively prosperous writer, who fathered a dozen of chicks would have written about death, unless he was reflecting on the death of a dearly departed, be it friend, family or a poetic soul mate.
Beside the fact artists in general and poets in particular are extremely sensitive to the facts of life (and death).

see my point 4... as you mention, there was too much death around tumanian, and that could've been the main insiration for him... although, this particular poem was written in 1894, when the times were not as bloody yet...

however, i don't recall tumanian writing too much about death... and if you analyse this particular poem, you can see that he is not really embrasing or accepting death... in fact, i see the opposite... i see a lot of remorse and fright in it... i see a lot of regret that one day too soon he will die without having expressed all the things he wanted to say...

on the other hand, see my point 5... maybe he wrote it just for the heck of it... he was talanted writer.... he could write about anything and everything he wished... and on that particular day he wished for death...

who knows what goes on in the minds of freaky poets...

We do understand why Dourian/Tourian(age 21), Terian (age 35) and Metsarents woud be so obsessed with death as they all lived in extreme poverty (is Metsarents an exception), and spent their adult(?) lives in the shadow of death, suffering the miseries of tuberculosis during the day and not knowing if they would wake up the next morning. It is understandable why they would seek answers in death that they could not find in life.
It is a wonder that Hacob Baronian beat the odds (of poverty) and lived into maturity while according to some rumors that upon his death his only worldy posessions were a slice of bread and a head of onion found in his pocket.
Does poetry bring misery or misery brings poetry? And, of course, we know that some poetry is a product of joy, just as an "ode to joy" (Bethoven Symphony #9.)

it's a spinning circle... it doesn't matter which side you approach it... it sucks you in...

[Harut]

i thought it is emotional instability...

thanks... actually that's what i meant...

[Louise]

[quote name='Arpa' date='Sep 29 2007, 11:05 AM' post='212875']
artists in general and poets in particular are extremely sensitive to the facts of life (and death).
--------------------------------------

The closeness to death is more alive than a life devoted to try to run away from death.
Louise

[Arpa]

Luise, Nairi, Ani, Arpa and the rest, thank you all for your contribution
wile reading the topic i felt for just one second as Tumanian and Durian, teryan Charents, and many many others

now if Arpa would traslate Charents Armenian-eEnglish.
I need to show to this to someone ( a none Armenian) which asked me exacly the same thing this morning......

here it is

"Es inchi masin inchu mi sur epigram ches hyusum?"
"Yes im Matners amen kextot Bani chem qsum"

wile at it Arpa jan traslate also Hamo Sahyan

Hayastan aselits tevers batsvumen............

Nairi, I'm proud of you dear Lady!

Սիրելի Եդուարդ,
Մենք ձեզ չենք մոռացել.
Please refer to Gevorg Abov's "Ով Դաշնակ շներ, Մենք ձեզ չենք մոռացել".
Please go to Literature, Hamo Sahyan, initiated by Vartahoor, RIP.
See the translation.
In the meantime, please give me more about Charents' quote, and the context where that sentence comes from so I can more wisely intrepret it.
Edit; I just found out that some time ago the poem had been translated by Sulamita. Go to Literature, to SubTopic Hamo and see them both and more.

Edited by Arpa, 30 September 2007 - 05:51 PM.

[Em]

Maybe the "emotionally unstable" poets were very much quite sane and normal (i don't like this word much ), and they naturally felt a need to explore the scariest and the most unknown facet of life: death. Maybe by attempting to analyze it, they were trying to underdtand it and get accostumed to the finality of it. We know so much regarding what happens to the body, but we cannot stop pondering if there isn't much else...a soul, and afterlife, a hell.

I am not a poet. I do not write because I have to (like I have to read, like I have to breath or eat or sleep) but at a very early age in my life I wrote about my death. And it isn't coincidental that this occured right after my grandmother read Tumanyan's Maro to me. I don't know the actual title but it is the one wherein they..."psaketisn Maroyin, tvin choban Karoyin". I could not fathom at such an early age that a 13 yr old child can have such courage to end her life and it prompted me to examine my young life and imagine/write of a romanticized, tragic death.......

I assure you, at that age I was not yet "emotionally unstable" i was quite unaffected by death...but it just shook me, and it became quite the topic of interest for me.

[Em]

"Does poetry bring misery or misery brings poetry?"

Maybe I am insane, for poetry gives to me hope, life, courage, laughter and peace within my soul. Even the saddest of poems has not brought me misery...

but i understand how the misery can create such btfl writings.

[Johannes]

Եղերերգ

Երկինքը սեւ է, դըժոխքի պէս սեւ,

Թախիծ մը խոնաւ վերէն կը հոսի.

Մարեց սիրտըս հուսկ ճաճանչը լոյսի,

Մութը կը դիզուի կուրծքիս ալ ներքեւ:

Թախիծ մը խոնաւ վերէն կը հոսի.

Դուրսը կը հեծեն քամին եւ անձրեւ,

Կափկափուն ձայնով մը որ կը մըսի.

Հոգւոյս մէջ կուլայ սէր մ'առանց յոյսի:

Դուրսը կը հեծեն քամին եւ անձրեւ,

Կափկափուն ձայնով մը որ կը մըսի.

Հոգւոյս մէջ կուլայ սէր մ'առանց յոյսի.

Կը խածնէ զիս ցաւ մ'օձի պէս տըձեւ:

Կափկափուն ձայնով մը որ կը մըսի,

Մահն է որ կ'անցնի, անհուն, հոլաթեւ,

Կը խածնէ զիս ցաւ մ'օձի պէս տըձեւ.

Լայն է վէրքս ինչպէս բերան մը փոսի:

Արշակ Չ.

[mariam]

ՀՐԱԺԵՇՏ

Այստեղ ահա կըբաժանվենք.
Մնաս բարյավ, սիրելի.
Այսպես ես չեմ ցավել երբեք
Դառնությունով սիրտս լի։

Այստեղ ահա քեզ թողնում եմ
Եվ չգիտեմ, ուր կերթաս.
Կասկածներից ես դողում եմ...
Թող պահպանե քեզ աստված։

Ա՛խ, առանց քեզ տխուր կյանքիս,
Օրը տարի կդառնա,
Բայց ուր լինիս, դարձյալ հոգիս
Շուրջդ պիտի թրթռա։

Մնաս բարյավ, բայց միշտ հիշիր,
Որ քեզ շատ եմ կարոտել.
Եվ տեսության ժամի համար
Չըմոռանաս աղոթել։

[MosJan]

Mariam Welcome to Hyeforum

Bari eq yekel

[mariam]

Mariam Welcome to Hyeforum

Bari eq yekel

chnorhakal em