Jump to content


We Used to be Friends


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 12 September 2000 - 11:15 PM

We Used to be Friends
(Armenians and Azerbaijanis)

by Svetlana Turyalay
Translated from Russian by Umid Azari

Editor: In the Western Press, Armenians and Azerbaijanis are often described as "ancient enemies". This was not the attitude that we evidenced in our visit to Azerbaijan in October 1993.

Everywhere we went, even refugee camps, Azerbaijanis provided examples of the personal friendships that used to exist. Svetlana Turyalev, one of Azerbaijan's outstanding journalists, an Azerbaijani who had to leave Armenia herself at the beginning of this conflict, captures the memory of the friendships that used to exist between the people of these two nations.

Shafaq: Garamboy Region, 1991. Photo: O. Litvin

No matter where you go and whom you meet in Azerbaijan, whenever you bring up the subject of the war, the majority of Azerbaijanis will pause and reflect, "Armenians used to be our friends."
However, as the conflict continues-already it has been going on for almost six years, which is even longer than World War II - many people are repressing the memory that these two nations and peoples had, indeed, been true friends not so long ago. At this moment when 20% of Azerbaijani's territory is occupied by Armenians, it is somehow strange to talk about friendship. That's why I've decided to write about what I know about the friendship of Azerbaijanis and Armenians.

I don't know who first invented the notion of the self-determination of the Armenians of Nagorno-Artsax. Obviously, history will provide the answer. Up until that time, Azerbaijanis and Armenians lived in harmony and friendship. Armenians, moreover, themselves, recognized that they had a much higher standard of living in Azerbaijan than Azerbaijanis themselves.

In the very rich region of Azerbaijan called Nagorno-Artsax, Armenians lived in two-storied houses with large gardens-everything necessary for a prosperous life. Armenian villages in Azerbaijan were more attractive and wealthier than those populated by Azerbaijani's.

Azerbaijanis and Armenians marked many of life's passages together. They shared everything - both sorrow and joy. If there were an Azerbaijan wedding or funeral, Armenians were invited. Armenians held the sons of their Azerbaijan friends during circumcision ceremonies and both groups invited the other to farewell parties when their sons were drafted into the Soviet army.

Perhaps, the greatest evidence of friendship that existed between these two cultures can be seen in the prevalence of mixed marriages. Today, these are the families that most deeply feel the impact of the war; its sharp, cruel blade severing husband from wife, and children from parents.

In 1988-89 both Azerbaijanis and Armenians felt unsafe and threatened in the other nationality's country despite having been born there themselves and they began to flee for their lives. Armenians living in Azerbaijan fled to Armenia, Russia, and, sometimes, even the U.S.; while Azerbaijanis from Armenia found refuge in Azerbaijan.

During the bloody upheavals of January 1990, Azerbaijanis hid Armenian families in their houses and drove them to the airport or to the border at the risk of their own lives.

Many Azerbaijanis recall the agonizing scenes of saying good-bye to Armenian friends, teachers, co-workers who left for Russia or Armenia. They'll tell you that those good-byes were so difficult, "We didn't know if we would ever see each other again. Parting forever was like death for us."
Despite this "population exchange" as it is sometimes called, all Armenians did not leave Azerbaijan. Unbelievable though it may seem, there are still to this day thousands of Armenians, especially Armenian women, living in Baku whose husbands are Azerbaijanis.

When foreigners ask whether Armenians still live in Azerbaijan, it's not uncommon for Azerbaijanis to volunteer, "Do you want to meet an Armenian? I can bring you one right here within five minutes." But the same, unfortunately, cannot be said in Armenia as not a single Azerbaijani has been allowed to remain in what for many has been their birthplace, as well.

Even at the time when the flag of separatism was being raised in Nagorno-Artsax with Armenia's support, Azerbaijanis and Armenians did not forget that they were friends and many guarded and protected those relationships.
For example, a very famous Azerbaijan journalist who had been deported from Armenia once told me that, while living in Yerevan, a group of youngsters attacked him when they discovered that he was Azerbaijani. It was Armenians who rescued him from inevitable death by hiding him in their homes.

Just last month, one of the Azerbaijan refugees told me that he knew of an Azerbaijan woman who had been kidnapped by Armenians in that hideous practice of hostage taking that is now going on in this war. It was her former Armenian neighbor that recognized her, and, who managed to arrange her release.

And nobody right now wants to remember those friendships. But Azerbaijan and Armenia are two planets in the same universe. Armenia is not geographically located in Australia; nor Azerbaijan, in Africa. We are two countries which exist side by side and I don't know how many years it will take for this mutual hatred which is consuming nearly everyone to be stamped out and transformed into a willingness to build friendships that once were so prevalent among us.

Glimpses of Friendship

Editor: Here are a few of the stories that circulate in Baku these days about friendships and sensitivities that still exist between Armenians and Azerbaijanis.

Our Family's Tragedy: Cousins Forced to Fight Each Other
I live in Baku. My husband is Azeri, but I'm Armenian. There are a lot of such families in Baku. At this
moment I have lost all my relatives. I don't even know where to begin to look for them.

My sister, by some miracle, escaped death in Sumgait (the large industrial city near Baku in which some Armenians were killed in 1990) and now she's living somewhere in Armenia. All I know is that her son is about the same age as mine. And in a few months, they will both be 18 and drafted into their respective armies. They're cousins, who used to live in neighboring cities in Azerbaijan-now, they'll probably have to fight each other-one for Armenia and the other, for Azerbaijan. The possibility exists that one might even kill the other.

I have only one plea to God these days and that is that this tragedy shall never happen, "O Lord! Stop this war."

One of my neighbors told me the following story when he, himself, returned from front on leave a few days ago. He said that two months ago (September 1993), three Azerbaijan soldiers came face to face with seven Armenian soldiers at the battle front. Death seemed so inevitable and so close.
But when the men got nearer, the Armenians called out asking the Azeris where they were from. "Baku," came the reply. The Armenian soldiers were so excited and, yet, at the same moment, so sad, because they themselves used to live in Baku.

Incredible as it may sound, they all sat down together, smoked, and shared their problems and sorrows for a while. In the end, everybody agreed that nobody really needed this war. After awhile, both groups of soldiers returned to their respective sides of the battle front. No one was killed, though all of them feared they might be shot in the back. -Alla

Embrace in a Moscow Elevator

Not long ago, I was in Moscow when a young man got on the elevator I was riding. He looked at me, then asked whether I were Azerbaijani. I nodded.

"From Baku?" "Yes," I answered. I begged the same question of him. "Yes, but I'm Armenian. I had to leave." "How are you doing there without us?" he wondered."Not so well." I confessed.

And at that moment, two of us - total strangers to each other - spontaneously embraced each other, fully aware of the sorrow and pain this war had caused the other. We were simply two brothers torn by strife. -Yagub

Armenian/Azeri Friendship and Romance in Literature

Editor: The following romances have been depicted in Azerbaijan literature of the intriguing love between Armenian women and Azerbaijani men.

Nariman Narimanov, one of the First Bolshevik leaders of the Communist party in Azerbaijan, who is still highly revered as great historical figure, wrote a novel called Bahadur and Sona in the early 20th century about an Armenian women and Azerbaijani man in love.

Alexander Shirvanzade, an Armenian writer from Azerbaijan, wrote a novel called, Namus in the early l900s.

Uzeyir Hajibeyov composed an opera, "Asli and Karam," which was staged in 1912 in Baku. The plot is based on folk tradition sung by ashaqs (roving singers) accompanied by saz (stringed musical instrument). The story describes an Armenian priest living in Isphahan (now Iran) who refuses to give his daughter, Karam, in marriage to an Azerbaijan nobleman. The basis for this folk tradition may originate as early as the 17th century.

Mir Alishir Neva'i (1441-1501) writing in classical Uzbek, created an epic poem based on the familiar Central Asian folk tradition of Farshad who in quest of his beloved Shirin channels water from a huge boulder. What is distinct about his version is that Shirin is an Armenian and the drama unfolds in Armenia, a beautiful land which he takes several pages to describe.

Abdul Rahin Hagverdiyev wrote a major theatrical work of five acts for a cast of 60 per in the beginning of the 20th century which was translated into Persian by Beluhar Asefi and published by Amir Kabir.

One of the scenes describes Armenian and Azerbaijani soldiers at the battlefront living in the trenches. One moonlight night during a cease-fire, an Azerbaijani starts to sing. An Armenian recognizes his voice and calls out to him; whereupon, the Azerbaijani asks if the Armenian has his tar (musical instrument) with him. And so the Armenian on one side of the battlefront accompanies the song of the Azerbaijani on the other. Then others join in the song and gradually both sides come out of the trenches and embrace each other.

#2 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 12 September 2000 - 03:13 PM

I would say look forward to more of this types of publications in the coming future...

#3 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 13 September 2000 - 05:08 AM

Again falsifications??!!
Dear Mosjan, I appreciate for showing this article and I want to ask you, could you please show the link, where did you copy this article.
It is always nice to hear about peace and friendship. But this lady "made" too many mistakes, that one hardly could believe that she is honest (I don't talk even about education level).
This article probably counted for those who don't know anything about history of past and present, about literature. I will not practice an excursion to the past. Just will bring one example from recent history:
quote

... in Sumgait (the large industrial city near Baku in which some Armenians were killed in 1990)

Is this "accident" (1990), or there is some intention (timeline of events).
Or lets see when hearth of Iran - Isphahan were in "Azerbaijan" and
quote

...in Isphahan (now Iran)

!!!!
Or when Persian poet Mir Alishir Nava'I (and not Neva'i) as well as Ferdosi and Ebne Sina (Turkic version Avesina) became Turkic poets and philosophers? Or when Movses Kalankatuatsi became Musa Kalankatuoglu?
Maybe we should remind to Svetlana Turyalev[a] true author of "Farhad ve Shirin" (and not Farshad - as she mentioned). Should we remind her about Nizami Gyandjavi?

In this small article there are dozens and dozens of "mistakes", that one could count as a trifles, but in reality there are more than enough intentions and hints, that I doubt honesty and good willingness of Mrs. outstanding journalist. [yes dzvi mech maz chem pntrum]

I would prefer talk to this lady (Urish baner chmtatsek hankarts ) before we come to conclusion, of course if her bosses allow this (since internet in Azerbaijan is not free and under heavy control of Azeri Government).
May fair and permenet peace come to our fatherland, to our region!

Ararat


[This message has been edited by Ararat (edited September 13, 2000).]

#4 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 13 September 2000 - 09:03 AM

http://www.azer.com/...21_friends.html

hastsen sa ya bavakanin mets arxiv ka iyter .
http://www.azer.com/..._frenchamb.html mi hat es mekn el karda ..

[This message has been edited by MosJan (edited September 13, 2000).]

#5 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 13 September 2000 - 01:27 PM

Thank you very much. I have another one as well (Alekperov-Buniatov-Mamedove collective job). Soon after finishing my comments, I will show you the link.
Hamazgain Sirov
Ararat

#6 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 13 September 2000 - 06:46 PM

Dear Ararat,

I think the paper has a special purpose. The way I understand, it is preparing grounds for advocating renewed Armenian-Azerbaijani "friendship," with the purpose of contributing for the cause of preparation of public opinion in Azerbaijan in favor of compromise solution of Karabagh problem. I would expect similar papers on "friendship" from the Armenian side.

While the facts are incorrect, I think her motives might be good. May be this time we should let it go?

#7 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 14 September 2000 - 05:14 PM

Dear MJ
Besides everything I see in her article making stereotype of Armenians as Natasha nation...

#8 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 14 September 2000 - 05:19 PM

And here is message posted to ATAA.ORG Guest-book by 20 year old Turkish lady from Ankara. Her Web-site is: http://www.geocities...zt_tr/index.htm
Still this doesn't satisfy me (I told her that you say half-truth), but it might be interesting for others. However try to judge yourself.
[Many times I called her agent of MIT (Maybe I am too hard liner )].

**********************
In Turkish:
**********************
İyi günler. Saygıdeğer ATAA mensuplarına söyleyecek bir/birkaç çift sözüm var. Ermenilerle ilgili bölümünüzü/bölümlerinizi okudum.
Kişisel görüşüm önemli değildir, ancak sizin tutumunuzdan rahatsız olduğumu dile getirmek istiyorum. Yakın bir zamana kadar "millet-i sıdıka" olarak anılan Ermenilerin kimilerinin arasında milliyetçilik ve bağımsızlıkçılık duygularının yükseldiği doğrudur. Bu, Fransız Devrimi'nin, günümüze kadar kendini üzerimizde etkimeye kararlı sonucudur.Osmanlı Devleti'nin tebaaları arasından hangisi bu coşkulu ülküden nasibini almamıştır ki? Nitekim, yokken aniden doğan Türkçülük ve Turancılık akımları da kuşkusuz adı geçen devrimin ürünüdür.
Birinci Dünya Savaşı sırasında bir takım "komitacılar"ın Ruslarla işbirliği yaptığı da doğrudur. Ancak sizin de farkedeceğiniz gibi, önemli sözcükleri tırnak içine almış bulunuyorum: "bir takım." Ruslarla işbirliği yapanların ne denli küçük bir kitle olduğu meçhul da değildir. Şöyle ki, Osmanlı Ordusu'nda Ermeniler'den oluşan bir tabur da vardır. (Bu, son zamanlarda yapılan bir dizi yeniliğin/reformun sonucudur: vergiler yeniden düzenlenir, "gavur" adını artık veremedikleri gayr-ı müslimler de orduya alınır. [Fedon Kalyoncu'nun "Dedem Çanakkale gazisiydi" diye övünmesini hatırlarsınız.]) Bunların dışında, çoğu Ermeni'nin Osmanlı-Rus sınırında değil, içlerde, Doğu Akdeniz kıyılarında, Doğu Karadeniz kıyılarında, Güneydoğu Anadolu'da vs. yaşadığını da unutmayalım. Aceba bunlar da mı işbirliği yapmışlardır? Hayır.
Ha, "tehcir" mi? Önceden de dediğim gibi, şahsi kanaatim uzun vadede önemli olmayabilir. Ama bana soracak olursanız, oldukça, izin verirseniz, "sakat" bir yöntemdir. Yöntemin uygulaması sürecinde nelerin olabileceği barizdir. Düşünün ki sizin kocaman ailenizin içinden bir bireyi, bir kusur işlemiştir.
Ailenizi topluca götürmüşlerdir. Gönlünüz buna razı olur mu? Ha diyelim ki öyle bir dünyada yaşıyoruz ki, mantığımız "tehcir" adındaki cezalandırma biçimine razı oluyor. Olay bununla da kalmamış, aileniz zulüme uğramıştır. Üstüne üstlük, bu dönemeçten sonra, ailenizin itibarını karalamak için devlet tarafından türlü yollara başvurulmuştur. (Mütehcirlere - ki mütehcir olmayanları, ailemin büyüklerinin de dediği gibi, kırmışlardır - kötü muamele edildiğinin aksini kimse iddia edemez. Olayların sadece ve sadece saldırgan peşmergelerle, açlıkla sınırlı olduğunu düşünüyorsanız, o sizin hüsnükuruntunuzdur.) Bütün bu benzetmelerin hepsi gerçeği yansıtmaktadır. Tarih kitaplarımızda, "Ermeniler, hiçbir zaman adamakıllı bir devlet kuramamışlardır, bunun için acısını bizden çıkarmışlardır" gibi ifadeler geçtikçe, kimse bu karalamanın gerçekleşmediğini söyleyemez. Ören yerlerindeki açıklama içeren levhalarda, "Ermeni" adının bile geçmediğini görmüyor muyuz?
Efendim, Amerikalılar da Japonları - hiç bir önemi yoktur. Bağışlayın ama, başkaları bok yiyor diye siz de yemeyeceksiniz elbet. Olayın soykırım olup omadığı apayrı bir konu olabilir sizin için. (Benim içinse yanıt hazır.)
"Komitacılar" - dikkat! "Ermeniler" demiyorum! - Anadolu halkının bugün Türk olarak kabul ettiğimiz Müslümanları'nı öldürmemişler midir? Evet, öldürmüşlerdir. Ammavelakin, o anda hele hele müşfik davranmayacağını bildiğimiz yönetim, iyisini kötüsünü, hepsini bir kefeye koymuştur. (Bölücülük yapanların bu denli ağır şartlar altında cezalandırılıp cezalandırlmayacağı ayrı bir konudur - acı olaylar, bu "aynı kefeye koyma"dan sonra cereyan eder.)
Özellikle yabancı tanıkların bize aktardığı üzere, ister otorite boşluğundan olsun, ister bilinçli olsun (ki bu ikincisinin kesinliği de belgelenmiştir), çok içkarartıcı olaylar olmuştur. Bu olguların yanında, tek tük yabancı tarafından "iyi davranılıyor" laflarının sarfedilmesi ve dünya kamuoyuna karşı-sav olarak sunulması, gülünçtür. Bu gibi laflar, öbür yandaki deneyimleri topyekün silmez. Bu gibi durumlarda, bu konunun demirbaşlarından sayılan Mümtaz Soysal dahi, sessiz kalacaktır.
" The Ottoman government issued unambiguous orders to protect and feed Armenians during their relocation ordeal"… ama n'olmuş ya? Diyelim ki hakkaten de yiyecek götürememişler, barınak sağlayamamışlar. Onca tanığın ifadesi ne diyor sizce?
Bilemiyorum aceba derdimi anlatabilmiş miyim.
Bir zamanlar Yahudiler vatansızdı. Oradan oraya yollanıp dururdu.
Ermenileri de bizden, yani cumhuriyetten önceki yönetim aynı duruma getirdi. Halbuki yıllardır aynı toprağın besileriyle beslenmişti bizim halkımız onlarınkiyle.
Yok Nazilerle işbirliği yapmışlar, yok bilmem ne - isterse yamyam olsunlar. Sorun bu değildir.
Yanlışlık apaçık ortadadır: bir avuç zibidinin davranısı, bir toplumun tamamına maledilmiştir.
Asıl izbandutların peşinden gidilmesi gerekirken, gazete dizilerinde hala adları geçen Enver, Talat ve takımları, akılalmayacak bir yol seçmişlerdir. Sözkonusu olaylar dizisinin bir soykırım olmadığını düşünseniz dahi, takdir edersiniz ki ben sizden bu konuda benimle hemfikir olmanızı beklerim.
Ereğim, donunaklı konuşmak değildir.
Amacım, bir görüşü başkalarına kabul ettirmek de değildir.
Bütün bu yazdıkarımdan sonra, sizi sağduyuya çağırıyorum.
Yanlışlıklar geçmişte yapılmıştır; size düşen ise, bunları düzeltmeye kalkışmak değildir. En kötü olasılıkla sözünü bile etmezsiniz. Karalamaya çalışmaksa, sizin sicilinize işlenecek bağışlanamayacak bir suçtur.
Ailem tarafından az da olsa bir fikir sahibi olmuştum bu konuda.
Hiç Nallıhan'a gittiniz mi? Ben gitmedim, ama oranın bir yerlesiyle tanıştım bir otobüs yolculuğunda.
Yolunuz düşerse, o yörenin insanlarına bir sorunuz, "Buradaki toprak niye kırmızıdır? Söylenceler ne diyor," diye. Elbette ki bilimsel olmayacaktır bu açıklama, ama o yörenin halkı, oradaki Ermenilerin katledildikten sonra toprağın al bir renk aldığına inanırlar. Annemin memleketi Sivas nere, Ankara'nın
Nallıhan'ı nere...
Elbette ki sizin de dediğiniz gibi, ASALA gibi örgütlerin savunulacak tarafı yoktur.
Ancak sizin yaptığınız neye benziyor, bilir misiniz? Kürtlerin PKK'cı olduğunu öne sürmeye. Bunca insanın adının bu örgütle anılması düpedüz yanlıştır.
ASALA, bilemiyorum, belki de hakikaten iddia edildiği gibi Abdullah Çatlı tarafından ortadan kaldırılmıştır.
Ancak hep zayıf kalmıştır. Nedeni ise onlara karşı iyi duygu beslenmeyişidir. PKK'nın olduğu gibi ve sonunun olacağı gibi, ölüme mahkumdur.
Elbette Ermenilerden öldürülenlerin öldüğünü yalanlamayı gaye edinmemişsinizdir.
Hele bir de etseydiniz.
Öldürülen Türklerin sayısı fazladır, eksiktir - hiç anlamı yok.
Bunca insanımızın, ahbabımızın dostumuzun, komşumuzun, vs. bu gibi bir duruma maruz kalmasına gerek yoktu. Bunu baştakiler de biliyordu.
Bir bu kadar insanın daha ölmesine gerek yok idi.
Siz gerçekten de bunun masumane bir "tehcir" olduğuna mı inanıyorsunuz?
Eminim ki öyledir.
Aynı mal değil miyiz? Bugünkü halimize bakın - bir yanda bizi soyup soğana çevirenler, öbür yanda binbir türlü dümen çevirenler.
Sanal alem aracılığıyla birçok Ermeni ile tanıştım. Hemen hepsinin aile hikayesi aynı.
Hepsi yalan söylüyor olamayacağına göre, sizin yanlış bilgilendirilmiş olma olasılığınız daha yüksek. Esenlikler dilerim.


**********************
In English (translated by herself)
**********************

Good day. I have a few words to the ATAA associates.
I have read those parts concerning Armenians.
My personal opinion may not be important, but I have to express that I am disturbed by your attitude. It is true that a portion of the people who had been known until recently as the "loyal people" had been under the influence of rising nationalist and independence-seeking sentiment. This is a consequence of the French Revolution whose effects we feel to be persistent on playing their roles on us even today. Who among the former Ottoman subjects have not been swept by this joyous ideal?
Even the birth of Turkish identity and Pan-Turkism are the results of this revolution. It is true that a bunch of "irregulars" have cooperated with the Russians during World War I. However, as you note, I have taken the important words in quotation marks: "a bunch." It's not like it is not known how small the group that cooperated with the Russians was. We know that there was a battalion (?) consisted of Armenians in the Ottoman Army. (This was a result of the series of reforms perpetrated in the late period: taxes being rearranged, the non-Muslims they were no longer able to call "gaour" being conscripted to the army, and the like. [You may remember Fedon Kalyoncu (*a Turkish Greek singer*) telling about how his grandfather was a veteran of war from Çanakkale.]) Other than this, we know that the majority of Armenians lived not on the Russo-Ottoman border but on the East Black Sea coast, East Mediterranean coast, Southeast Anatolia, in the interior, etc. Is it likely that these too have cooperated with the Russians? No. "Deportation", you say? As I have said before, my personal opinion may not matter in the long run. However, if you were to ask me, I will say that this is a very "crooked" way of resolving things, if you will. It is obvious what will happen during the carrying out of this method. Think that an individual of your large family has done wrong. They take away all of your family. Can you accept this? OK, suppose we live in such a world that our logic approves of the way of "relocation." This is not all there is to it; your family has been marauded. To top it all, the state has resorted to every means at hand to defame you. (Nobody can deny that the deported and the ones killed on the spot, as the elders of my family have pointed out, were not treated well - far from it. If you think that the cases of deathes were limited to the attacks of the peshmerges, hunger, etc., that is your wishful thinking.) All these analogies reflect the truth. As long as such expressions as, "In all of history, the Armenians have not been able to form a proper state of their own [*true; this is in fact what I got out of the teacher's mouth the year I returned from Brazil, whereas I had known otherwise*] and have resorted to blaming it on us," nobody can say that this defamation is not going on. Do we not see that the very word "Armenian" is not seen on plates describing the ruins pertaining to them? American did the same to the Japanese - it does not matter. Excuse me, but, if others eat shit, does this mean you can eat it? (*a typical what you call it in Turkish.*) That this is a genocide can be an entirely another matter for you. (For me, the answer is ready.) The irregulars - note! I don't say, "Armenians" - have killed what we call today the Turks, the Muslim inhabitants of Anatolia, have they not? Yes, they have. However, at that instance, the government we know to be nothing close to affectionate had treated both good and bad equally instead of setting them apart. (Whether the bandits deserved such harsh terms is an entirely different matter; the sad events start from here onward.)
Very tragic events have taken place as foreign eye-witnesses tell us, be it because of lack of authority or on purpose (and we know that there is documentation beckoning to the latter one).
Besides these, with words of "they are being treated well" being passed on to the international platfrom as counter-statements, this situation is nothing but laughable. These words do not undo what was done on the other side. (*Sound familiar?*) In the face of such, even those considered experts of the subject such as Mümtaz Soysal will flounder.
" The Ottoman government issued unambiguous orders to protect and feed Armenians during their relocation ordeal"… Yeah, but so what? Let's suppose that indeed they were not able to provide food and shelter. What about so many eye-witness accounts?
I'm not sure if I have made myself clear.
Once the Jews had no country. They used to go from place to place.
The Armenians were made to be the same by people who ruled before the republic, while we had been fed with the same nutrients of the same soil for years.
"They cooperated with Nazis"; "they did this they did that." These are all irrelevant - they could have been cannibals. That is not the question.
The wrong-making is out in the open: the actions of a handful of thugs have been described as those of a whole nation.
While they should have sought to go after the real thugs, the Enver, Talat and Co. who till today are mentioned in series (?) newspapers thought up a despicable plan. Even if you think that this series of incidents did not constitute genocide, you should be able to guess that I expect you to agree with me on this matter.
My objective is not to talk emotionally.
Neither is my objective to make others accept a certain point of view.
After having written all of this, I invite you to goodwill.
Mistakes are made in the past; it is not up to you to try to correct them. At worst, you may not even mention the issue. Defaming, on the other hand, is an unforgivable crime that will go on your record. Thanks to my family, I had had the chance to have some idea about this issue.
Have you ever gone to Nallıhan? I haven't, but I talked to someone who was a native of that area on a bus trip. If you ever pass by, do ask the people there, "Why is the soil red here? What do legends say?" Of course the answers are not going to be scientific, but the people of that region believe that the soil took a reddish tone after the Armenians were massacred.
All the way from my mother's hometown in Sivas to Ankara's Nallıhan…
Of course, as you have said, there is nothing about organizations like ASALA to be defended. However, do you know what you are doing? It is akin to saying that Kurds are PKK. Mentioning the name of so many people with such an organization is wrong.
I don't know for sure; maybe ASALA was indeed destroyed by Abdullah Çatlı as they say. But it was always weak. The reason for this was lack of sympathy. As PKK is, it was doomed.
Of course you do not have the objective of belying the deaths of those who were killed.
And if you had…
The number of Turks dead may be greater or less - it has no meaning.
There was no need for so many of our people, our friends, our neighbors, etc, to meet such privations.
The ones at the top knew this as well.
There was no need for this many more people to die.
Do you seriously believe that this was some innocent "relocation"?
I'm sure it was.
Aren't we in the same situation still?
Look at ourselves today - on the one hand you have those who **** our bloods, on the other those who work for themselves.
By virtue of the internet, I have met many Armenians. All their stories are almost exactly the same. As it is unlikely that they are all lying, I opt that it is more likely that you have been misinformed. Wish you well.
**********************

#9 Guest__*

Guest__*
  • Guests

Posted 14 September 2000 - 05:23 PM

Dear Ararat,

I am not familiar with the expression "Natasha nation." What does it mean?

You know, my point is the following: If our neighbor has to expropriate our and other’s culture so that to look cultured, we shouldn’t be very upset about it, because it may indeed help them to think of themselves as a cultured nation. May be this type of expropriation may even motivate them to behave and live in a manner appropriate for cultured nations. If this happens, we wouldn’t have problems with them, anymore. So in a way, these attempts of theirs my eventually serve us...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users