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Closest Number?


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#101 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 06:10 PM

QUOTE (Sip @ Feb 29 2004, 02:54 PM)
How does inf+1 = inf + 2 suggest 1=2 if you are not doing inf-inf=0?

STOP DOING inf-inf. STOP IT RIGHT NOW biggrin.gif furious.gif goof.gif boxing.gif bangin.gif wallbash.gif

fine drop the inf-inf part then.. inf(1)=inf, inf(100000)=inf, so does inf(1)=inf(100000), and thus making 1=100000?????? HELLLLLO DAMNIT! LMAO... the subraction doesnt work.. now lets say inf/inf doesnt work, cause if it did, then what i just said would prrov that it doesnt.. hahah.. lol.. youll kep going in circles this way.. lol

#102 Sip

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 06:13 PM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ Feb 29 2004, 02:23 PM)

rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

You finally discovered that inf/inf doesn't work? I posted the link ... you posted the 7 indeterminates yourself.

#103 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 09:35 PM

QUOTE (Sip @ Feb 29 2004, 06:13 PM)
rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

You finally discovered that inf/inf doesn't work? I posted the link ... you posted the 7 indeterminates yourself.

Sip, stop going around my question.... and posting things not meaningful to my discussion.. if you want to proove your point, answer this question, which i have asked couple times before, but you guys seem to be ignoring it..


your 7 indeterminates do not include 1/inf... so, what is 1/inf, and if you can somehow come up with a number without taking the limit, then i would like to see your reasoning.....

#104 Sip

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE (Gevo)
Sip, stop going around my question...


For the (at least) third time:

QUOTE (Sip @ Feb 29 2004, 06:09 PM)
QUOTE (Sip @ Feb 29 2004, 02:52 PM)
1/inf = 0. It is NOT indeterminate.

rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

rolleyes.gif

#105 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 09:46 PM

thats meaningless... LMAO.. i knew you have answered that way before..

I was hoping for an answer that makes sense sip jan...

infact, the answer is not 0, simply because you never reach a number.. again you are talking about countable infinity, which matematicians have rigged for there own self accomplishment at explaining such abstract concepts as this easy as hell question.. the answer is not 0, and if i must explain it.. let me know and i will.. and if you dont see why, tell me please, so i can laugh a little.. lol..

PLEASE people... tell me someone else sees that 1/inf is not =0... please for the sake of humanity!!!!

#106 Sip

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 09:51 PM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ Feb 29 2004, 09:46 PM)
thats meaningless... LMAO.. i knew you have answered that way before..

Gevo, what are you trying to accomplish here? Are you going to argue next that 2+2=5 for very large values of 2?

If you think I am stupid, just look here (so there is your "someone else" if you must have one). It is spelled out for you nice and big. And what is this "explain to me without using limits"? Why not limits? What's so scary about the concept of a limit?

#107 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (Sip @ Feb 29 2004, 09:51 PM)
Gevo, what are you trying to accomplish here? Are you going to argue next that 2+2=5 for very large values of 2?

If you think I am stupid, just look here. It is spelled out for you nice and big. And what is this "explain to me without using limits"? Why not limits? What's so scary about the concept of a limit?

because the limit my friend is now an easy concept to grasp, no problem with it at all..

what am i trying to accomplish.. simple.. i want to know what is the reasoning behind stating 1/inf=0, which is meaningless.. same as with any mathematical computation that invlolves infinity.... its not comprehendable.. thus the main issue i had was the questioned posed..

" how close can you get to a number" you can get infinitly close.. true.. but how close is that., if we take the limit, its a simple differential problem, but disregard the limit...
No i wont argue 2+2=5, for large values of 2, thats dumb...


let me explain countable vs. uncountable infinity.. lol..

basically, countable infinity are the integral numbers... and uncountable all the numbers between integers...

#108 Sip

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:04 PM

Ok FYI, you are talking about "discrete" and "continuous" with countable and non-countable. That is not an issue here as we both are talking about the continuous domain it seems (in your words, non-countable).

#109 Anileve

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE (Azat @ Feb 29 2004, 04:08 PM)
Sip, I swear I knew you were going to say that I am gay. smile.gif I was even thinking of posting a blurb at the end of my message to you not to make fun of me. biggrin.gif

Oh Azatik,I love gay men... besides take on gay man to the exponent of 2 subtract one gay man, take the result of that and multiply it by infinity and you get one Maaaaaaaaaanly Manly Man aka Azatik.

Now lets go have a nice bottle of wine and leave these geeks to take out their frustrations on math, while I tell you all about the flower I planted in my backyard. wink.gif

#110 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE (Sip @ Feb 29 2004, 10:04 PM)
Ok FYI, you are talking about "discrete" and "continuous" with countable and non-countable. That is not an issue here as we both are talking about the continuous domain it seems (in your words, non-countable).

there is something we can agree on.. pheww.. lol..

1 devided by an ever increasing number cant equal zero, only when lmiting..

forget the limit.. once more.. and.. explain to me then how you got 1/inf=0, i really want to understand this.. it seems you beleive you are right.. and i want to be right also, if i am wrong in my argument that 1/inf does not exist, then i want to see why, and it seems you think you know the answer...

btw... my whole point is to show, inf is not a nmber, and you cannot in any way use it as you would a number, unless of course you take limits.. rolleyes.gif wink.gif

#111 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE (anileve @ Feb 29 2004, 10:06 PM)
Oh Azatik,I love gay men... besides take on gay man to the exponent of 2 subtract one gay man, take the result of that and multiply it by infinity and you get one Maaaaaaaaaanly Manly Man aka Azatik.

Now lets go have a nice bottle of wine and leave these geeks to take out their frustrations on math, while I tell you all about the flower I planted in my backyard.  wink.gif

He is a geek


i look more like this.


Honest!! iv had total stranger walk up and ask to take pic with me cause she thaught i looked like him.. lol..

yeah yeah offf topic..

Edited by gevo27, 29 February 2004 - 10:34 PM.


#112 DominO

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ Feb 29 2004, 10:20 PM)
there is something we can agree on.. pheww.. lol..

1 devided by an ever increasing number cant equal zero, only when lmiting..

forget the limit.. once more.. and.. explain to me then how you got 1/inf=0, i really want to understand this.. it seems you beleive you are right.. and i want to be right also, if i am wrong in my argument that 1/inf does not exist, then i want to see why, and it seems you think you know the answer...

btw... my whole point is to show, inf is not a nmber, and you cannot in any way use it as you would a number, unless of course you take limits.. rolleyes.gif wink.gif

There is one thing you fail to understand here, even if 1/inf was to not equal zero, it would still be a determinated form since its limit is determinated from every sides, so it could not be part of the 7 forms.

1/inf is determinated, it has a clear cut limit, don't forget here that we are talking about infinit and limits... the idea behind the infinit here is that it is so big that any values that it divide, it will reduce it to a zero... when you introduce the notion of infinits here, in the same time you have to consider the notion of limits, I really fail to see what is all this discussion about, as Sip is not inventing anything new but just telling you what you are supposed to learn.


BTW Harut, I do not understand your remark.

#113 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Feb 29 2004, 10:43 PM)
There is one thing you fail to understand here, even if 1/inf was to not equal zero, it would still be a determinated form since its limit is determinated from every sides, so it could not be part of the 7 forms.

1/inf is determinated, it has a clear cut limit, don't forget here that we are talking about infinit and limits... the idea behind the infinit here is that it is so big that any values that it divide, it will reduce it to a zero... when you introduce the notion of infinits here, in the same time you have to consider the notion of limits, I really fail to see what is all this discussion about, as Sip is not inventing anything new but just telling you what you are supposed to learn.


BTW Harut, I do not understand your remark.

well, why do you think 1/0 is not an accepted calculation guys?

and again, forget limits... i dont understand also why there is so much discusison.. lol..

#114 DominO

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ Feb 29 2004, 10:47 PM)
well, why do you think 1/0 is not an accepted calculation guys?

and again, forget limits... i dont understand also why there is so much discusison.. lol..

1/0 is determinated, it gives infinit. On the other hand, 0/0 is not determinated.

#115 Anileve

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:51 PM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ Mar 1 2004, 12:24 AM)

Geeks can look like that as well, what you speak is a common misconseption. You can argue with me till infinity but I stand by my statement. You are all geeks and that's that! schmoll.gif

#116 gevo27

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Domino @ Feb 29 2004, 10:49 PM)
1/0 is determinated, it gives infinit. On the other hand, 0/0 is not determinated.

if you guys think this.. then please explain yourself..... i didnt mean this to go on for 4 , 5 pages..

1/0=inf, ill ask my math professor, see what he thinks,..im sure his response is more valid than any of ours..he has a phd in mathematcis.. lol.. and then ill reply, as to i am completely dumbfounded at your remark..

some people seem to be thinking they are smarter than they can show...

#117 DominO

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Posted 29 February 2004 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (anileve @ Feb 29 2004, 10:51 PM)
You are all geeks and that's that! schmoll.gif

Why insulting us like that? What have we done to you? biggrin.gif

#118 Sasun

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 12:11 AM

QUOTE (Sip @ Feb 29 2004, 05:36 AM)
Yes ... that is not "indeterminate" as Domino would call it. Inf + Inf = Inf. So that is not a contradiction.

Yes, if you add two infinites you will get another infinite. All infinites are infinites, this is a very trivial observation. However, this has no quantitative meaning (I think this is why Gevo objected using infinity in 'calculations' which we don't acutally do).
As we all agree the best way to understand infinity is limits. What seems contradictory is when you try to get the limit there is a qualitative change. Namely, 2 times the same non-zero should not be equal to itself. However, as we take the limit this requirement is no longer true.

I have another question regarding the proof of the lines. Cantor has proven that real numbers cannot be counted (the validity of this proof is actually debated in the article Domino posted, but that's another issue). The points on the lines represent real numbers. If we cannot count the points principally then how can we even consider this method of drawing mapping lines in the proof? I mean, we should first be able to count/identify every point in order to draw lines.

#119 DominO

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE (gevo27 @ Feb 29 2004, 11:52 PM)
if you guys think this.. then please explain yourself..... i didnt mean this to go on for 4 , 5 pages..

1/0=inf, ill ask my math professor, see what he thinks,..im sure his response is more valid than any of ours..he has a phd in mathematcis.. lol.. and then ill reply, as to i am completely dumbfounded at your remark..

some people seem to be thinking they are smarter than they can show...


So what your PhD of a prof said? smile.gif




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