64 replies to this topic

[Arpa]

Երեւանում գիտեն նախապայմաններ չկան:

Ուզում ես ասել նախաՊԱՄՅԱ ներ չկան?
http://greenarbythed.../08/okra_22.jpg
Վստահ եմ դու գիտես ՊԱՄԻԱ Բամյա բառի փոխաբերական իմաստը:
Խնդրեմ մի ստիպեր որ, մի թող պատկերալից դառնամ:
Թէ, մի այլ լեզուով “iki tiki bir bamya/ երկու մսակտոր, մսագնդակ(meatball) մի բամիա” ինչ նշանակի:

Edited by Arpa, 09 November 2009 - 12:41 PM.

[Johannes]

Ըստ սերժոլոգիայի, նախապայման` pro payment:

[Arpa]

Ըստ սերժոլոգիայի, նախապայման` pro payment:

Այո, proto-ՎՈՌ. Տեսնել թէ ՈՌ մին պիտի առաջինը լինի վարտիքը վար արնել:
Նաեւ չի մոռանալ որ Ֆրանսերէնով "col/cul" նշանակի այն ինչ որ վարտիկով է ծածկւում: Տես "culotte/cul de sac" բառը:
Մի բառարան ասի "cul de sac" նշանակի "bottom of the bag", "տոպրակի յատակ"ը. Իմա "աղիքային տոպրակ"ի յատակը:

Edited by Arpa, 09 November 2009 - 01:18 PM.

[ED]

Այո, proto-ՎՈՌ. Տեսնել թէ ՈՌ մին պիտի առաջինը լինի վարտիքը վար արնել:
Նաեւ չի մոռանալ որ Ֆրանսերէնով "col/cul" նշանակի այն ինչ որ վարտիկով է ծածկւում: Տես "culotte/cul de sac" բառը:
Մի բառարան ասի "cul de sac" նշանակի "bottom of the bag", "տոպրակի յատակ"ը. Իմա "աղիքային տոպրակ"ի յատակը:

Arpa? esor ankoxnu sxal koxmumes zartnel?

[Louise]

Arpa? esor ankoxnu sxal koxmumes zartnel?

----------------------------------

Arpa, ther are many expresssions in french with the word 'cul' cul-de-sac means a dead end
cul de poule means to have pursed lips
a cul de jatte is a legless cripple
and many others...

[Arpa]

Arpa? esor ankoxnu sxal koxmumes zartnel?

Ոչ, ոչ: Ես միշտ անկողնի նոյն կողմից եմ զաթնում:
Հիմա պիտի սպասենք որ Zartonk ը Զարթնի
Եւ եթէ պիտի ասես որ չոլախ թոփսլեան տեմիրճիողլուեան Հայերէն ազգանուններ են: Քեզ պիտի սարքենք ստամբուլի նախագահ

Edited by Arpa, 09 November 2009 - 02:12 PM.

[Louise]

Is «Պիլեմճեան» turkified? <img src="http://hyeforum.com/...DIR#>/ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" />

----------------------------------------

yes in turkish "bilemek" means (in armenian) srél
- in english: to sharpen
a man who sharpens the knives for instance or a tool
it is very useful in the country

Louise

[Louise]

about the name: balian . Bal in turkish means honey and the man who makes honey is called in French : apiculteur =beekeeper

may Armenians have that name! Balian

[Arpa]

about the name: balian . Bal in turkish means honey and the man who makes honey is called in French : apiculteur =beekeeper

may Armenians have that name! Balian

Please see the post Oshin Payl under Laguage.
---
Dear Louise, we know what “bal”* in furkish means. Who learned from whom? Were the Mongols the first apiculturist”s? Compare it with the French Latin “miele/mel” and the Aemenian “meghr/մեղր” where the Latin L turns to the Armenian GH, and visa versa.. We all know that t”he furkish “bal-ji-ian” means honey maker/seller.
I was going to ask why in the English that insect was called “bee”. See “ä-p(b)ee-iary”.
Here we re trying to find why some Armenian family names are “balian”(without the J), “palian, paylian/payelian” Please see about “Öshin Payl” and the Anglo-Latin “bailiff”. Bala/balik/ baby etc.
** It is obvious that they learned that word from the Latin "mele", and the Armenian "meghr/ՄԵՂ-Ր, otherwise they would have used the Arabic word "' asal".
The minute we ass the letter J and and a additional L to a word/name, it is automatically assumed to be of furkish origin.Letbus get rid of that f** letters J ad L. Is your surname Sal-J-ian or Sar-L-an?
PS-
Dear Iskouhi.
Did you know the “true” meaning of you name?
From that site about names;

ISKUHI
Is an Armenian name, which means "real", "true", "honest". It is in use now.

The above site does not go far enough.
The name, is alternately used to mean “real aristocracy”, even “divine goddess”.
Not to forget “ ιskakan/ԻՍԿԱԿԱՆ/ real/genuine/unadulterated/անխարդախ”

Edited by Arpa, 10 November 2009 - 10:50 AM.

[Arpa]

The following is an excerpt from a biography of Ajarian.
See the full article in the LANGUAGE Section under Հրաչեա by SAS;
======
"Հենց այս վարժարանում էլ կնքվում է նրա Աճառյան ազգանունը: Քանի որ մահմեդականներն ազգանուններ չունեն, հետեւաբար ապրելով նրանց մեջ` հայերը եւս կարիք չեն զգացել ազգանուններ գրանցելու, փոխարենը նրանք կոչվում էին իրենց անուն հայրանուններով: Սամաթիայի դպրոցում Հրաչյան մատյաններում գրանցվել է Հրաչյա Հակոբի: Սակայն օրերից մի օր դպրոցի հոգաբարձությունը մտածում է, որ ավելի ճիշտ կլինի աշակերտներին ազգանուններով գրանցելը եւ առաջարկում է բոլոր աշակերտներին ծնողների միջոցով որոշել, թե իրենք ինչ ազգանուն պետք է կրեն: Հրաչյայի հայրը որոշում է տղային տալ իր հոր` Հարությունի անունից կազմված ազգանուն: Բայց տղային դա դուր չի գալիս, քանի որ երկար էր եւ շատ տարածված: Հորաքույրը առաջարկում է գրվել իրենց նախնիների անունով` Հյուպրյուքյան: Դա էլ անբարեհունչ էր: Այդ ժամանակ նա որոշում է օգտագործել հոր մականունը, որին իր կարճահասակության համար Կռճին Ակոբ էին ասում: Եվ նա դպրոցում գրվում է Կռճինյան ազգանունով: Բայց դասընկերները սկսում են ծաղրել նրան` կանչելով Կռճիկ, Պռճիկ, Մռճիկ, Տռճիկ: Դա դաս է լինում նրան, որ Կեդրոնական վարժարան նոր ազգանունով ընդունվեր: Գրաբարյան կռճիկ բառը թարգմանելով աշխարհաբար աճառ բառով` Կեդրոնականի փաստաթղթերում գրանցվում է Հրաչյա Հակոբի Աճառյան:"

Edited by Arpa, 18 November 2009 - 08:07 AM.

[Arpa]

First this-

TURKISH NAMES AND ENGLISH CURSES: VIOLATIONS OF LANGUAGE LAW IN ARMENIA
Tert.am
10:50 ~U 09.12.09

2,200 errors have been registered in the explanatory dictionary
published in 1997, said Lavrenti Mirzoyan, head of the RA State
Language Inspectorate, while speaking with journalists yesterday.

According to Mirzoyan, the lack of censorship turns into "everything
is allowed." In Yerevan's Garegin Njdeh square, the inspector has come
across a sign with the word "yorgan" ("blanket" in Turkish), while on
Baghramyan Avenue, one can find a sign with Persian writing on it. "In
the capital city, there is a street with an English-language name,
whose Armenian translation is a curse."

According to RA law, foreign language signage must also be accompanied
with an Armenian version of the same size.

Mirzoyan also noticed that the National Assembly approved a new
draft law yesterday, which will give the State Language Inspectorate
the right to fine businesses or individuals who are in violation of
the language law. After the draft law is passed and put into force,
individuals can be fined 150,000-200,000 AMD; legal entities, up
to 250,000-300,000.

In addition, according to the chief state inspector, there are
numerous educational institutions in Armenia where applicants don't
need to pass an Armenian-language exam; this when, in accordance with
law, Armenian language education and passing an Armenian-language
examination are mandatory.

"In accordance with Article 431, 'not securing parallel translation
for non-Armenian-language speeches in conferences, conventions,
meetings, scientific meetings where dissertations are announced,
and other official mass events' is punishable by law," noted Mirzoyan.

Then this-
----
I had seen the below news some time go. Even though I think it is fit for Comedistan, there may also be a lesson for us, as we seem to be relearning our culture and nomenclature from those idiots.
Speaking of idiots. Why does his surname still end with “ËV”? Just like his father whose furko-Arabic name heydar had become russo-azeri “geydar”? (And, why is that dog featured in the Hanragitaran with a half page bio?)
Some day I will find out why this idiot’s surname is “gambarov”. There are so many of them with that surname. Also note that his first name Isa is the Arabic name for Jesus.

BAKU, Azerbaijan -- Amid continued fighting in the disputed enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Azerbaijani prime minister, Isa Gambarov, says his country is ready to drive Armenian forces out if they do not leave the region peacefully.
"While we would like to solve the conflict through negotiations," Gambarov said in a recent interview with the Globe, "we are fully prepared to push the Armenians out of Karabakh militarily."
The 35-year-old Azerbaijani leader said his country's military is gaining strength and might soon be in a position to wrap up the war.
Azerbaijan - Atlapedia Online
The Azerbaijani Popular Front (APF) headed by Abulfez Elchibey** organized mass ... of Mutalibov by Isa Gambarov until presidential elections could be held. ...
"Armenia now knows," Gambarov said,

...
**Search and see. Why are there Armenians with surnames like elchibekyan/elchbegyan? This is so ironic. (See the Hanragitaran.) Hambardzoum Melqoni Elchibekyan, “Համբարձում Մելքոնի Էլչիբեկյան b. 1896 at Ardabil d. 1977 Moscow, was a historian. Of course he was a member of the KomKous….”
Please (google) search and find. Do those idiots know that “gambar” is the russified form of the Armenian “hambar/Համբար/hambadzoum/Համբարձում” Ascension/Ascencione/Asuncion?
http://en.wikipedia..../wiki/Asunción

Asunción (full name: La Muy Noble y Leal Ciudad de Nuestra Señora Santa María de la Asunción) is the capital and largest city of Paraguay.

---

BAKU, Azerbaijan -- Amid continued fighting in the disputed enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Azerbaijani prime minister, Isa Gambarov, says his country is ready to drive Armenian forces out if they do not leave the region peacefully…

Is it like “hambar-gambar” Hambarian/Hambartsoumian? Not to forget that Harut Gasbarian became Harry/Garry Gasparov. Much like heidar became geidar.
So, why that ali(EV, Medvedev, Gorbachev, Brezhnev) kakoghlu kakazadeh has not yet changed his name?
We had aired this or similar story here, I can’t remember where;

Azerbaijan to announce new surname structure
Chickenegg **• Tue 01 of Sep, 2009 (02:10 UTC)
A new commission is setup to finalize the structure to be used for last names. This commission will study historical forms of last names before it recommends a new structure. The studies will be completed in few months and everyone will get the privilege of changing their last names..

According to 1993 law on conformation of Azeri surnames with the official language, the citizens of Azerbaijan can change the “[ov]” and “[ev]” endings of their last names to “[ly]” (“[li]”, “[lu]”, “[lyu]”, depending on the word stem), “[zade]”, “[oglu]”, “[gyzy]” or remove the endings.

** I can’t resist. Observe the nickname of the above poster. “chicken-egg”?

[Arpa]

Also see;
http://hyeforum.com/...h=1
http://hyeforum.com/...t=0
I had not seen this before. See what the turk Ali Suat, aka aurguplu says below.

we had surnames since 1935, it is before that period that we did not have them. people had their given names, and other designations that secured their identity.
the reason the government changed the village names has more to do with the erasing of the past rather than the purification of the language.

dear taguhi,
there are quite a few words in turkish of armenian origin, as would be expected from a language that coexisted with armenian for almost a millennium. "haç" is one, "kama" (dagger) is another (apparently it comes from "kam" in armenian), "bızdık" is another, "nanik" (the offensive manual gesture children make at one another) is another, and i am sure the list can go on. eastern anatolian dialects and kurdish (especially the zaza variant) are known to have a lot of armenian vocabulary, mainly relating to various crafts like stonemasonry and carpentry, and also architectural vocab, also household language, as women were usually of armenian origin and the ran the household.
by the way, you were not the only christian nation we met on our way from central asia, in fact, there were manichean and nestorian christian turks in central asia about two-to three hundred years prior to our departure. also, the gagauz (gök-oğuz) turks are christian. they were a part of the seljuks, they must have turned christian either in central asia or in anatolia (of course, there was no talk of christianity amongst turks until the republic, a very delicate matter as far as national and religious pride is concerned).
a few words on the turkish language: the osman, or more properly osmanlı or ottoman, is basically anatolian turkish with loads of arabic and persian in it. it is the grammar which remained more or less turkic, whereas most of the vocabulary was arabic and persian. also, arabic and persian phrases were intoduced into the language with their own grammar, so you have entire pieces of arabic and persian floating in a sea of turkish.
there were several reasons they did this: the first was that the oghuz tribes who were the ancestors of anatolian (and azeri and turkmen) turks were not the cultured turks (like the uighurs, for instance). when they first encountered islam (and it wasn't a peaceful one, more on that later) they were overwhelmed by the "high" arabo-persian culture and adopted it pretty much wholesale, to the point of formulating their history along arabo-persian lines (genealogies that trace ruling families back to mohammad etc.) that ofcourse included the languge. the whole process is very reminiscent of the response of the germanic invaders of europe to the higher roman culture they were conquered by, and earlier, the response of the romans to the higher greek culture they were conquered by when conquering greece, and the higher anatolian culture the earliest greeks were conquered by when they had first arrived at anatolia and present-day greece.
the second is that when they came to anatolia, there already was a system of administration which they preferred to take over rather than introduce (or invent) an entirely new system for an entirely new country. this is a very logical move common to most conquerors. you conquer the rulers, alleviate their pressure on the populace, and they rule the country for you. of course, this also means thta you borrow the entire administrative terminology together with the system.
the third is that ottoman, being a state language, was in need of a degree of secrecy. what better way to hide information than to write it down in an incomprehensible language?
the fourth is, anatolia also contained a number of persian and arabic speaking peoples upon our arrival, and during the latter centuries, more and more of these peoples did end up in anatolia. so there is also some real arabo-persian admixture which contributed to it (of course, the attitude of turks - otherwise remarkably fre of racist prejudices - toward the arabs and the persians is a bit like the attitude of the american whites toward the blacks and hispanics, so this last one doesn't wash down well in turkey).
so in sum, it is not entirely correct that we lived without our language for so long. the phenomenon that we experienced is called "diglossia" in english. this means that a society has two forms of speech that are sharply different from one another, even though they are of the same origin. the "higher" variety is used for government purposes and the like, while the "lower" variety is used for everyday speech. contemporary arabic is a good example to that, as was italy at the time of petrarca and dante. those days, latin was the high variety, and italian was the low variety. it wasn't until a bit after dante that italian became firmly established.
we had surnames since 1935, it is before that period that we did not have them. people had their given names, and other designations that secured their identity. the reason the government changed the village names has more to do with the erasing of the past rather than the purification of the language.
regards,
[ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: aurguplu ]

Edited by Arpa, 10 June 2010 - 02:47 PM.

[Arpa]

We have discussed this subject to the ground. That surnames ending in “ian-yan” are 99.9% Armenian, leaving out that 01% who hide behind the surname to hide their real identity, in most cases that they are in fact followers of moshe. Where is that Դանձ Գլուխ Hagarag?
We have also stated that the “ian/yan” is not an exclusive Armenian property, that many Persians and those in the Indian subcontinent do in fact use it.

http://hyeforum.com/...=1

Enough comedy. Let us get serious. Who is to conduct a serious scientific research to tell us when ,where and why Armenians began to use the “ian/yan” ending of family names?
You will see that neither Mashtots, Sahak Partev, Paustos Buzant, Anania Shirakatsi, nor Khorenatsi had “ian/yan” ending surnames. We don't know what TigranII's family name was. OH! No! Silly me! It was Orontid/Yervandouni/Erwanduni.

http://hyeforum.com/...showtopic=18383

Here is another perso-yudan/mosheyan? Hiding behind the “ian/yan” surname?
Or, is the fact that he is Iran-IAN means he is Armenian?
http://www.panorama....011/08/19/fars/
We have also written about "sayed/syed/seda/sayida". Syed/Sayed means Lord/Ter/ՏԷՐ , and Սեդա/ Seyida means "lordess"? ՏԻՐՈՒՀԻ.

Seyed Ali Saghayan receives Pan-Armenian Games Iranian delegation
Iranian Ambassador to Armenia Seyed Ali Saghayan received Iranian-Armenian sportsmen participating in the Fifth Pan-Armenian Games, Fars News Agency said.
The Ambassador noted that the Iranian and Armenian peoples have many historical and cultural similarities and have peacefully co-existed for ages.
Seyed Ali Saghayan highly appreciated the role of the Armenian community of Iran and informed those present that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has provided financial aid to Tehran’s Ararat Sport Complex.
Around 450 sportsmen have arrived in Armenia from the Iranian cities of Tehran, Isfahan, Urmia, Shahin, Tabriz, and Salmas for the Pan-Armenian Games.

Edited by Arpa, 20 August 2011 - 11:38 AM.

[Arpa]

Kurdoghluian? This is an Armenian Family name?

How can we blame HH Aram Keshishian when He has a furkish family name as well?

Be that He is a citizen of Lebanon, the least He can do is amend his surname to the Lebanese version Kassis-ian.

Keshsish is a pejorative word from Assyrian-perso-furkish that means priest.

In Aleppo there was a very famous, a much loved and respected physician obstetrician Dr. Kassis. I think he was a Hin Haleptsi, yet very much Armenian.**

 

Արամ Ա. Կաթողիկոս Պարգեւատրեց Տէր Եւ Տիկին Միհրան Եւ Զարմինէ Քիւրտօղլեանները

 

　

http://hayernaysor.am/%D5%A1%D6%80%D5%A1%D5%B4-%D5%A1-%D5%AF%D5%A1%D5%A9%D5%B8%D5%B2%D5%AB%D5%AF%D5%B8%D5%BD-%D5%BA%D5%A1%D6%80%D5%A3%D5%A5%D6%82%D5%A1%D5%BF%D6%80%D5%A5%D6%81-%D5%BF%D5%A7%D6%80-%D5%A5%D6%82-%D5%BF%D5%AB/

** http://imad_moustapha.blogs.com/my_weblog/2007/09/my-summer-vacat.html

Next day, I took Rafif to show her Dr. Iskandar Kassis’s hospital, where my mother gave birth to me and my siblings, our old house in al-Sabeel, and my grand mother’s old house behind Faisal’s street, in addition to my favorite building in Aleppo: Villa Rose. We ended our trip to Aleppo buying almond’s pastries from the famous Azrak’s shop in al-Minchieh before heading back to Damascus.

http://daughterofthewind.org/horses-of-dr-iskandar-qassis/

PS. I had a schoolmate in Aleppo whose family name was Kurdoghluian. I think his name was Zaven.

See Victoria Delikeshishian here

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=21754&page=1&#entry259801

http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/photos/w-9.jpg

 

 

[hagopn]

Arpa, you wild man you, this topic is so dear to my heart, and you're still typing about it.

 

My late father used to muse about this as well in a very humorous tone of your generation that few here seem to recognize.

 

The Armenian humor that his generation (and yours) have is something special.  It seems rough on the edges, but it is extremely well intentioned and kind at the core.

 

Having said that, his favorite surname was Bokhuyoghunian, one that a good friend of his had.  This last name literally means "son of a thick turd."   Needless to say, the head of family eventually decided to change their surname to something (I will keep in confidential) like "Aramentz" .

[Arpa]

Lets have some fun. This is funny? Not really!! It is tragic.
Even if this item belongs under Comedistan, I will place it here just to see how ridiculous we can be.
Read ’em and laugh. No, Read ‘em and weep.
Ականջդ խօսի Յագոբ Բարոնեան
And, what happened to the Eshek-ji-ian family?
====
From Azdak Dec. 12 213. Written Fifty Years Ago.
It is a tongue in cheek article about our names and surnames, mainly those of French Armenians..
From there he moves to Yerevan.
It is ironic where all of the so called Armenin surnames are in fact turkified with the JI-ian endings.
The most ironic part is the writer’s surname- Beshiktasli-ian.
Which part of it is Armenian? Is it beshik or tash?
http://www.aztagdaily.com/archives/164428

Մեր Անուններն Ու Մականունները

Ֆրանսահայերէն ոմանց անուններն ու մականունները ենթարկուած են ճարպիկ փոփոխութիւններու` հրաժարելով հայկականութենէ ու մտնելով ֆրանսական աւազանի մէջ:
Եւ այդպէս, Հրանդներն ու Հրաչները եղած են Հանրի: Երուանդներն ու Եդուարդները` Էտուար: Լեւոնը եղած է Լէոն, Ռուբէնը` Ռոպէն, Ժիրայրը` Ժերար, Արմէնն ալ բնականաբար վերածուած է սիրահարի, այսինքն` Արմանի:
Հայկուհին եղած է Հիւկեթ, Շուշանը` Սիւզան, Վերգինէն` Վիվիան եւ այլն:
Մասնաւորապէս Ժան անունը դարձած է չափազանց գործածական: Բոլոր «ճեան» վերջացող մականունները փոխուած են Ժանի. այսպէս, Պասմաճեանը եղած Պասմա Ժան, Գաւուքճեանը` Գաւուք Ժան, Թաւուքճեանը` Թաւուք Ժան, Բաչաճեանը` Բաշա Ժան, Գահվէճեանը` Գաֆէ Ժան, Պալըքճեանը` Պալուք Ժան, Գազանճեանը` Գազան Ժան, իսկ Մէզարճեանը` Մէզար Ժան:
Անուններէն Մերուժանն ալ եղած է Միու Ժան, իսկ Վարուժանը` Վարու Ժան:
Մէկն ալ կը ճանչնամ, որուն անունը Ատրուշան էր, փոխելով` ըսաւ Արթիւր Ժան. ապա տեղափոխելով եղաւ Ժան Արթիւր: Եւ որովհետեւ մականունն ալ Եազմաճեան էր, կոչուեցաւ Ժան-Արթիւր Եազմա Ժան, որով սկսաւ շողշողալ երկու «Ժան»-ով: Ֆրանսացի բարեկամները` «Ժան-Արթիւր Եազմա Ժան» անունին ու մականունին մէջէն հանելով ու նետելով «Արթիւր»-ն ու «Եազմա»-ն, կարճօրէն անուանեցին զինքը «Ժան-Ժան»: Եւ ինք գոհ մնաց նոր անունովը կրկնապէս պատուարժան:
Յովհաննէս Շալվարճեան անուն մէկն ալ պզտիկ անունը թարգմանելով` ըրաւ Ժան. իսկ Շալվարճեան մականունն ալ վերածեց «Վալժան»-ի, ու եղաւ Վիքթոր Հիւկոյի «Թշուառներ»ուն հերոսը` Ժան Վալժան: Այս նոր Ժան Վալժանը սակայն, թշուառ մը չէ, այլ` թշուառական մը, որովհետեւ ինքն իրեն կնքահայր ըլլալէն ի վեր, ձայնի արագութեամբ բայց անձայն կերպով հեռացաւ հայութենէ:
Ձուկը գլխէն կը հոտի, կ՛ըսեն:
Մենք կ՛ըսենք.
- Ափսո՜ս, ձուկը Սեւանի մէջ հոտած է, աւելի ճիշդը` Երեւանի մէջ:
Քանի Սերգէյներ, Վլատիմիրներ, Ալեքսիներ, Նորաներ, Նատիաներ, Օֆելիաներ ժողովուրդին մէջ, հինէն ի վեր, հիմակ անհաշուելի: (Լիլիթներ/Lilith-ner)
Բայց ի՞նչ ըսել երեւանեան կարգ մը գրողներու օտարախառն իրական անուններուն եւ կեղծանուններուն, ինչպէս` Գուրգէն Մահարի, Յովհաննէս Շիրազ, Սիլվա Կապուտիկեան, Գէորգ Էմին եւն.:
Մեր «փոքր ածու»-ին մէջ մեծ հոգիներ կան, որոնք այլասէրներ են, ու հայութեան հետ կը սիրեն նաեւ ուրիշ ազգեր: Բայց թոյլ տանք, որ միւս ազգերու պատկանողները մեզ սիրեն:
Այլասիրութիւնը մինչեւ այլասերում երթալու չէ:
Վերոյիշեալ գրողներուն ազգային զգացումներուն ջերմութեան մասին չունինք կասկած` կորեկի հատիկի չափ: Սակայն, քմայքի մը պատճառով, ակամայ գէշ օրինակ կը հանդիսանան: Ես կը ճանչնամ հայեր, որոնք յիշեալ գրողներուն կը հետեւին կապկօրէն` ընտրելով եւրոպական կամ ասիական անուններ:
Բայց ես տակաւին չտեսայ մէկ օտար գրող, որ գործածէ հայկական անուն:
Մեր գետին նետածները օտարը ինչո՞ւ վերցնէ ու վրան կրէ:
Վենետիկի Մխիթարեան միաբանութեան մեր հայրերը իրաւունք ունին, երբ կը հայացնեն օտար անձնանունները` Ժան Ժագ Ռուսոն ընելով Յովհաննէս Յակոբ Ռուսօ: Կապրէլ Տանունցիոն ընելով` Գաբրիէլ Տանունցիոյ, Միքէլ Անճելոն ընելով` Միքայէլ Անճելոյ, իսկ Ժորժ Սանը` Գէորգուհի Սան:
Կարծէք` տեսակ մը անմեղ փոխ վրէժ է այս թարգմանական արարքը:
Կ՛արժէ մանաւանդ հայացնել հայերու անուններն ու մականունները:
Օրինակ առնենք սա անուններուն գեղեցկութենէն, ներդաշնակութենէն ու հայութենէն.
- Կարօ Սասունի,, Տիգրան Ոսկունի, Սարգիս Սարունի,, Հրաչ Քաջարենց, Վահէ Օշական, Գարեգին Սարգիսեան (ծ. վրդ.)
Գա՞նձ մըն է ունենալ հայկական աղուոր անուն մը, ու զայն առաւել եւս գեղեցկացնել, տառապանքի եւ տաղանդի քայլերով ու մաքրութեամբ
ՆՇԱՆ ՊԷՇԻԿԹԱՇԼԵԱՆ

[Johannes]

Գրողի ազգանունը ի՞նչ է հապա:
Օսմանցիութիւն կը հոտի…

[Arpa]

Այո, քաքոտը ցեխոտին է ծաղրում:

---

Luke.4 [23] And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country..

----

Եւ ասէ ցնոսա. ապաքէն ասիցէք առ իս զառակս զայս։ բժիշկ՝ բժշկեա զանձն քո. որչափ լուաք՝ զոր արարեր ի Կափառնաում, արա եւ աստ ի քում գաւառի։

 

Միթէ բէշիկթաշը Հայ գիւղ է?

Edited by Arpa, 23 December 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[Johannes]

Միթէ բէշիկթաշը Հայ գիւղ է?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nişantaşı

Nisantasi is emmioglu of besiktas

Ps. I don't recognize Minor Asia as Turkish areas at all.

Edited by Johannes, 23 December 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Arpa]

Surnames CK Garabed Names

http://www.armeniape...menian_Surnames

Surnames
http://hyeforum.com/...1


http://www.armeniape...menian_Surnames

I can add more. My most hated favorite surname chirkinian meaning ugly
You MF ! Your mother is UGLY!!
What's in a Name? The Etymology of Armenian Surnames

Back some time ago, I was struck by how many Armenians didnt know the meaning of their names. It was a pleasure to conduct research and then pass on the results. I felt gratified in helping people learn more about their names. Curiosity was my first motivation for exploring the subject of Armenian family names. However, I then came to appreciate the diverse nature of Armenian surnames, which appear to cover the gamut of our ancestors life activities in the Old Country. I found that many interesting and unusual names cannot be deciphered merely by looking them up in books, but also require a knowledge of the circumstances leading to the formation of such names. In many cases, direct contact with their owners is needed in order to get the insiders views. With names like Chukhasuzian, Haviters, and Soghanyemezian, sometimes I think we Armenians, more than any other ethnic group, possess the most fascinating surnames.
I should qualify that by acknowledging the level of interest contained in the names of some of our odar spouses. In reviewing the passenger list, I noticed some very interesting non-Armenian names, and I have tried to decipher some of them. So, those of you in attendance who possess non-Armenian names, dont hesitate to fill out the form if you would like me to tackle them. If I dont already know, Ill do my best to find out and communicate the results to you.
Now for my lecture -- What's in a Name? (The Etymology of Armenian Surnames)
Intro- Non-expert (Linguist, Philologist) on names/ languages. 25 years ago started collecting names from church directories and donor lists as a hobby. Manually. Then personal computer. 7000 names collected to date. Task of collecting names has been made easier by publication of Yellow pages in CA.
Daughter dictionaries. Cesar Chekijian - book on Armenian names from Armenia.
Indo-European language tree. (Slide #1) Mother Tongue (Slide #2) Indo-European Branch (Slide #3) Anatolia International language-Esperanto/English? (Slide #4) -- Ough bough, cough, dough, rough, through (Slide #5) -- Ghoti = fish (Shaw) (Slide #6) -- M. Mead, Sol Tax, anthropologists.
Interaction among languages is quite common in history. French, Italian and Spanish are derived from Latin. English is Teutonic in structure, while its vocabulary is 75% French- Latin.
English has been influenced by the same languages that have influenced Armenian, notably Persian and Arabic.
Persian influence on English can be seen in the following: Cummerbund = kamarband (waistband) Orange = Naranj Checkmate = Shahmat (The king is dead). (Persian/Arabic)
Arabic influence on English can be seen in the following: Algebra = al jabra = reduction of parts to a whole Cipher = zero = sifr, (Roman vs. Arabic numerals) Divide/Multiply (enemies/conquests) Admiral = Amir al bahr = Lord of the sea. (Admirable?)
The Turkish influence on English is negligible. All we come away with is Turkish Bath, Turkish Towel, Turkish Coffee, and Turkish Delight.
Armenian has likewise been influenced by interaction with Persian and Arabic.
Armenian use of Persian vocabulary (English Persian dictionary) - List anginar, azad, bakht, bulbul, dard, dushvar, dumbak, gav, haiwan, jins, jan, lubiyah, mard, nishan, pishgir, parishan, panir, pambah, paiman, turshi,, tut, yar.
Krikor Pidedjian = Aryan languages. Mardig Soghomian - Shah of Iran to scholars Persian names also end in IAN - Rezvanian
Armenian use of Arabic vocabulary - mashallah (beautiful! how strange!), tabak, (plate, dish), tanjara (saucepan, pot), Haji (pilgrim) vs. Mukhsi (Mahdesi). (Maqdasi-y: Arab.) Mecca vs. Jerusalem. Saatjian vs. Zhamakordzian,
Armenian has been heavily influenced by interaction with Turkish, especially in the formation of surnames.
5. Armenian use of Turkish vocabulary - Preponderance of Armenian surnames possess a Turkish root:
(Lt. Col. H. Sachaklian, [Peynir, sheker] Hagop Kasbarian)
The Armenians and the Jews
There was a time when people were known by one name, and if necessary to distinguish one from others, would be referred to by trade, location, or parent affiliation. For example, Resartus the tailor, Isaac of York, Abou ben Adhem. Then, some time later, not too long ago, people adopted family or surnames, so we got Herman Miller, Hovsep Shamlian, Jack Johnson. An interesting parallel can be drawn between the Jews of Germany and the Armenians of Turkey. In both cases, sometime about the eighteenth century, the rulers of those countries mandated the adoption of family names in the language of the host countries. The difference is that whereas the German Jews were often permitted to select their names, the Turkish Armenians were often assigned names by local officials. Thus came about the adoption by Jews of beautiful names, such as: Morgenthau (morning dew), Schoenberg (beautiful mountain), Blumenthal (blooming dale), Mandelbaum (almond tree), Saperstein (sapphire stone). The Armenians, on the other hand, were often as not given uncomplimentary names, in derision. For example: Topalian (lame, crippled), Chirkinian (ugly), Dilsizian (mute, without a tongue), Chukhasuzian (without an overcoat), Jambazian (acrobat, swindler), Tekirian (marked with spots), Zulumian (cruel, oppressive).
Armenian names may possess endings such as ian, iantz, oghlu and ov, but their stems reflect royal lineage, trade, geographic location, description, and proper name.
Examples:
Lineage:
Abahuni Amaduni Ardzruni (Armenian dynasty; Possessing eagles) Arshaguni (Royal house of King Arshag) Darduni Kachaznuni (Valiant, son of the brave) Marduni ? Pakraduni (Created or given by god Mihr) Rshduni (Armenian dynasty)
Trade: Dulgerian, Doghramajian, Marangozian, Najarian, Hiusenian (carpenter) Demirjian, Nalbandian, Tarpinian, Chilingirian, Vosgerichian, Kalayjian, Haddad (smith) Kuyumjian, Jafargian (Javahirjian), Koharian (jeweler) Darakjian vs. Sandrakordzian (comb-maker) Tutunjian vs. Tombekjian (tobacconist): common tobacco vs. Persian tobacco for nargile (water-pipe) Deirmenjian vs. Chaghatsbanian (miller)
Geographic location: Lachinian, Marashian, Shamlian, Terjanian, Stamboulian, Bolsetsian.
Description: Khachadourian (given by the cross), Aznavourian (titan, hero), Melikian (king, prince), Melekian (angel), Manougian (youth), Mangasarian (small mountain), Shahdanian = Shah (king) + dan (house) vs. danil/danel = to take, carry, bear (tolerate)
Proper names: Davidian, Garabedian, Sahagian, Mesrobian, Hagopian (Jackson). Dadoyan: Thaddeus > Tad > Dad (Karabagh) (Location?)
Detective work: Name changes - Bohajian, Kahaumjian. Kerbeykian: Kur = grey, buyuk = moustache Akim Tamiroff - (Hovakim Tamirian) - Hovagim: Biblical name, demir: iron. Inchighoulian = what a giant! vs. inji + goul = pearl rose vs. inji + oghoul = pearl + son.
Shareshian <ar;,;an = black silk , according to Nicholas Shareshian
ipek = (T.) silk m;taqs (medaks) = (Arm.) silk (from Greek: metaxi) apri,oum (abrishoom) = (T.) sewing silk (from Arab: ibrishim) ipri,im (ibrishim) = (Arab.) silk thread (from Persian: abrishum)
,;ram (sheram) = (Arm.) silkworm ,;ramabou/oujiun (sheramapoodzootiun) = (Arm.) sericulture ,arma[ (sharmagh) = (Arm.) silk-sieve Prof. Hagopian, Anatolia College, Merzifoun, turkey
h, (esh) = (Arm.) donkey, ass. esh = (T.) one of a pair; husband, wife, mate eshek = (T.) donkey, ass. eshik = (T.) doorway threshold, violin bridge.
s;w (sev) = (Arm.) black kara =(T.) black siyah = (P.) black; also (T.) black, dark.
It is possible that share (of silk in Arm.)plus siyah (black in P.) = Sharesiyah plus ian = Sharesiyahian, which was contracted to Sharesian, subsequently became Shareshian.
Spelling and Country of Origin (Slide #7)
Keshishian vs. Kechichian Harutunian vs. Arutunian (yan) Ohanesian vs. Oganesian (yan) (Hopak vs. Gopak; Horowitx vs. Gorovetz) Vapurdjian vs. Vapurciyan
Intermission (Q & A)
Other interesting or unusual names:
Adjeledjian: (T) Someone always in a hurry
Altiparmakian (T) One with six fingers
Arkun (T/A) According to Aram Arkun, currently the editor of AGBUs Literary Quarterly ARARAT, this is his reply to my question about the derivation and meaning of his surname: My Sepastatsi grandfathers name was originally Yesai Karageuzian. He is said to have traced his genealogy back 400 years to Van, with clergy in the family tree. Unfortunately, the information is lost to us. My grandfather was a physician in the Turkish army during WW I. For obvious reasons he changed his name to Ismail Shevket. His last name was probably formally changed during the name law in the 1930s to Arkun.. My grandfather was an amateur philologist, and I perceive a correlation between Shevket and Arkun, which latter can be construed as both Armenian and Turkish. Shevket, in Turkish, means majesty, pomp. Arkun, in Armenian, is a form of arka, a term used to describe a king or royalty. Thus, Arkun (or Arkuni) would mean, of the royal court, or, belonging to the king. In Turkish, as far as I know, Arkun has two meanings: soft, gentle; the name of a Mongol Ilkhanid ruler Arghun (the gh sound changed to k in modern Turkish.) For the foregoing reasons, there is only one family group with the name Arkun. As an interesting aside, I would mention that during the 1930s name change law, those who had changed their names earlier now had to register their names. Others were forced to take on new names. For example, a couple on my mothers side went together to the same registry official. One was given the name Karabulut, black cloud, and the other Siyahbulut, also black cloud, siyah having been borrowed from Persian. The official was apparently playing a cruel joke on the couple by assiging different last names with the same meaning. They had a great deal of difficulty in trying to get the same last name for both husband and wife.
Arnavoudian (Al) Eddie Arnavoudian, who is a regular contributor to Groung on the Internet, has the following to say about his family name as it was handed down to him: My dads side of the family were from an area around Istanbul called Arnavoudkoy or something like that. The area was named after it was settled by emigrants from European Albania called Arnavouds. The Arnavouds were divided in their religion, one part Christian, the other Muslim. How they became Armenianised or why our family adopted this name if they were not actually Arnavouds will remain an eternal mystery.
Bajaksuzian; (T) Legless; short man
Boynubouroukian (T) One with a twisted neck
Chekijian Relative of Puzant Granian. Chekich vs. cheki (500 lbs for measuring firewood a horseload).
Chukhasuzian: (T) Without a winter overcoat
Dilimetin (T) Firm, strong tongue; Trustworthy
Geuzugeutchugian (T) Small or deep-set eyes
Hajian (Mecca) vs. Mukhsian, Mahdesian, Mahdesi, Maqdis-y (Jerusalem)
Iguidbashian (T) Iguid: Var.of Yighit: brave. Bash: head; leader of brave men; (formerly) man responsible for carrying out the regulations of a guild.
Jafargian: (T) From Javahirji: Jeweler, gemologist
Jingabedoghlu (T) A certain family migrated to the U.S.A. from Istanbul, Turkey with this unique name. The original name of the family was Mgrdichian. However, the grandfather, who had a given name of Garabed, earned the name of Jin-Garabed because he was shrewdly intelligent; jinni in Arabian folklore being related to genius. Jin-Garabed was, in time, abbreviated to Jin-Gabed, and thus the family name became Jingabedoghlu, or son of Jingabed.
Kantzian (A) Treasure. However, really Khantzian (T) Native of village of Khan to Sepastia
Kanayan (T) blood. From Khudaverdi in the Lake urmia region came 5 brothers to Igdir. They were a rough crowd, and became land barons; then became respectable.(Mardig Kanayan, son of General Dro.)
Kavazanjian (A/T/A): Stick, staff, cane.P-gav + asa prod/urge cow on path to meadow (Nasreddin Khoja - baby cow)
Kiledjian (T) (Kile: measure of capacity just over a bushel) Weighmaster.
Mghtsavanchian (A) Nightmare.(Family in Florida per Angel Manoogian)
Oulouhojian (Wolohojian) (T) ulu: high, great; Hoja: Moslem teacher, priest (Avak Kahana)
Soghanyemezian (T) One who does not eat onions
Tazian Greyhound (Retriever for Turkish hunters.)
Terlemezian: (T) One who does not sweat. Dajad-assignment-no sweat. Legend has it that an invading shah of Persia taxed the citizens of Van so severely that when they met evry fresh demand of his he was prompted to say, Dont these people sweat? (Arpi Haroutunian)- Terlemezian is a Turkification of Talamazi: those with long-hair in the current sense of intellectual, who were also guards of the Armenian rulers of former times
Tololian- Corruption of Tel Volor (thread spinner), a name bestowed on the great great grandmother of . Khachig Totolian, professor of history at Wesleyan U., and the son of Minas Teoleolian, former editor of the Hairenik Daily. Before that, the family name was Sarkisyan. Totolian is a name unique to that family and Khachig is the last of the line.
Vapurciyan: Vapur = steamship, vapurji = S.S. builder, owner, operator, crewmember.
Hajakian: (As told to me by Yeghishe Hajakian) Once there lived a man named Hagop who was a supervisor at the stable of the Padishah of the land. His jovial disposition and assiduous attitude for his work had earned him an unswerving trust of his employer, his master, his king. The people around him, the Turks, could not pronounce his Armenian name Hagop, instead they called him AKUH.
One bright day the Padishah receives a gift from some prince. It was a most ravishing, gorgeous looking, a rare breed of an Arabian white horse. Akuh, the horse keeper, falls in love with this horse and decides to steal it and ride all the way to Jerusalem. He disappears for seven years never to be heard from.
The Padishah, realizing that Akuh was more valuable to him than just a horse, issues a Firman (an edict) declaring that he has forgiven Akuh for his misdemeanor and that wherever this Akuh is he should return to the court and resume his work at the stable.
Lo and behold, Akuh returns home with a big welcome to spend the rest of his life as a contrite employee and determined to make up for his mistake. The horse had passed away but in Jerusalem he becomes emblazoned with a cross tattooed on his wrist thus becoming a Hadji. The Turks, therafter, call him HADJI AKUH.
Hadji Akuh was Yeghishes great, great, great, great, great grandfather.
Yeghishe was born in Lebanon as Hadjiakuian (son of Hadji Akuh). It was too long, so he shortened it to Hajakian.
Haviters: (T) Contrary nap (rug). In the city of Sepastia in Turkish Armenia, there lived and worked two master rug weavers. A wealthy resident of the city wished to have a rug woven and commissioned one of the weavers to do the job. The weaver commenced the work, but when halfway through, died of consumption. The wealthy man who had commissioned the work then approached the other weaver to complete the job. This other master weaver accepted the offer, but being a proud artisan, decided to complete the job his own way. So, instead of picking up where the other had left off, he commenced from the other side and when he had gone for enough, joined the two parts. In doing so he ended up creating a rug with the nap going in opposite directions. This became a source for his being named haviters, hav (khav in old Turkish) meaning nap, and ters meaning contrary. Previously, the family name had been Manougian. (Compliments of great grandson Mircan Haviters of Farmingdale, NY, whose ancestors moved from Van to Sepastia 1030 years ago.)(CruiseVIII)
Now, you might ask why people perpetuate strange, unusual or even uncomplimentary names. After all, its easy to just change them by adaptation. Ive known Armenians who have done so: Fourounjian to Baker; Baghchajian to Gardner; Kaprielian to Gabriel; and Terzian to Taylor. Well, people often are attached to their names because it gives them a sense of continuity and tradition. Theres also the desire to honor their martyrs by perpetuating the memory of their identity as Armenian Christians. We should be grateful to our fellow Armenians for having retained them as eloquent historical testimony to the oppression suffered by the Armenians at the hands of the Turks. Its fortunate for me that Armenians have hung on to their names; otherwise I wouldnt be here talking to you today.
An Armenian appears in court in connection with an application he made for a legal name change. The presiding judge asks, "What is your current name?" The applicant replies, "Jack Beshigtashlian." The judge says, "I don't blame you for wishing to change your name. What name do you wish to change it to?" The applicant replies, "Joe Beshigtashlian."
10. I have not published anything on Armenian names, but my daughter, Lucine, has a few pages on names in her book. (Slide #8) Available in Hairenik Bookstore aboard vessel. See Lena Guebenlian.
11. Publicly thank the Committee, Bandazian, DerBedrosian, and all those who have been helpful in sharing their knowledge with me.