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Hayk - The Ubiquitous Armenian


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#1 rostom

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 06:32 PM

Hi Everyone,
Check out my new site meant to serve as a guide for Armenian communities around the world: www.hayk.net. All comments and suggestions are welcome.

Also, I am calling for help from any Armenians living in cities or countries with large Armenian populations. Looking for people who can take photos of Armenian establishments (shops, restaurants, etc.) and provide some verbiage in regards to the community. Write to me if you are interested and I will send more info.

Thanks.
rostom@hayk.net

#2 armjan

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 07:16 PM

QUOTE (rostom @ Mar 31 2005, 06:32 PM)
Hi Everyone,
Check out my new site meant to serve as a guide for Armenian communities around the world: www.hayk.net. All comments and suggestions are welcome.

Also, I am calling for help from any Armenians living in cities or countries with large Armenian populations.  Looking for people who can take photos of Armenian establishments (shops, restaurants, etc.) and provide some verbiage in regards to the community. Write to me if you are interested and I will send more info.

Thanks.
rostom@hayk.net

would u plz add San diego.
pm pics/content soon...

#3 rostom

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:34 PM

Didn't know there was much of an Armenian community in SD. If you send me pics and content I will be more than glad to add it to the site. Use Glendale as an example as its got the most content.

rostom

#4 Arpa

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 05:47 PM

Dear Rostom, welcome.
Excellent idea and a very good site.

Could you please explain why you saw it fit to inject the myth of Noah into the epic of Hayk? Did you perhaps think such allegations will augment and promote our cause?
Dp those who claimv to have written the myth of Noah even ackmowledge Haik? Have they even heard of him?
We know that the saga of Haik happened thousands of years before the world had even heard of Noah. (Please search and find out what biblical scholars think the year of the Flood was. About 1500 years BC?)
Besides there really was no flood as depicted, and a wooden ark with those dimensions to accomodate all the living creatures? I may have a limited imagination, but even with that... wow!!! Which Home Depot did Noah buy that lumber and the hardware from? How did he power his electric power tools?

"Who is Hayk?
Legend has it that the Armenians (known as Hay in their own name), are descended from the renowned archer, Hayk, a great-great-grandson of Noah."


As tempting as may be, can we leave myths where they belong, that world's most read treatise of mythology, the Old Testament?
As meager as the sources may be, we better stick to history ad archaeological evidence, lest we once again are blown again by our detractors.

Edited by Arpa, 02 April 2005 - 06:01 PM.


#5 rostom

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 04:15 PM

There are plenty of sources which 'inject' Hayk and Noah together. I did not write any of this to 'augment or promote our cause'. I simply wrote it because that is what numerous sources from the National Geographic (http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0403/feature2/) to certain Armenian literature (not an authoratative source, but a quick one I found on the Internet: http://www.armenianh...fo/origins.htm) claim.

I am not implying this connection as a fact, but rather as legend. By definition, a legend is romanticized or popularized myth. As a matter of fact, I consider the other story of Hayk (battle with Bel of Babylon) as nothing more than legend also. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. If it did happen, it has probably been romanticized just as much as any other legend or myth--which is why so many things, such as dates, do not make sense in legends.

One thing I have been considering is expanding on the verbiage about Hayk. And when I am ready to do that, I may in fact include the story about Hayk and the battle of Bel.

rostom

#6 Ludwig9

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 05:08 PM

If you follow the sociological development and structure of civilization, you will notice since ancient time, that all great leaders were deified during their life or after death. Hayk was a real person that existed, who later after his death was probably deified, just like the pharaohs of Egypt who were “walking gods”, all the way down to the Kings of England or France who was “chosen by God”, and regarding the ‘injection’ of Hayk and Noah, the first books of the bible was written for Jewish chronology, not for Armenian chronology. Additionally, the Chinese and Australian aborigines aren’t mentioned in the bible but we known that they exist. It is quite possible Armenia’s history was preserved orally. This means the stories of the Armenians were passed down from generation to generation verbally. Moves Khorenatsi who is considered the “Father of Armenian History” has to record of the origin of the Armenians. Archeology points out that Armenians have been around for a long time. I have also read a book written by Martiros Kavokjian.

I also recommend the translations of http://rbedrosian.com/hsrces.html

Edited by Ludwig9, 04 April 2005 - 05:10 PM.


#7 Arpa

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Ludwig9 @ Apr 4 2005, 11:08 PM)
I have also read a book written by Martiros Kavokjian.

I also recommend the translations of http://rbedrosian.com/hsrces.html


Kavukjian maybe.
I also have his book.
But beware of Bedrosian. I have seen his site too.
As his mastery of the Armenian language, particularly that of Khorenatsi(Grabar)seems to be limited when he interprets "Jenats ashkharh""(a region of modern northern Pakistan, Kashmir, perhapd Tocharia) in re to Mamikoneans' origin as "chinats" i.e China.

#8 Arpa

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE (rostom @ Apr 4 2005, 10:15 PM)
One thing I have been considering is expanding on the verbiage about Hayk. And when I am ready to do that, I may in fact include the story about Hayk and the battle of Bel.

rostom


Dear Rostom (Zavarian?)
Please don't be offended.
I did not mean to offend you. On the contrary I think you are doing an excellent job. Keep it up.
One thing though.
I tried to nip an impending travesty in its bud.
As Ludwig correctly indicates below the Biblical myths were intended for the consumption for their own people. The only huge mistake they did is they landed the so-called Jewish (noootttt!! Please read Gilgamesh and other flood stories)patriarch Noah and his ark on an Armenian Mountain, not on Mt. Sinai e.g. Simply because they knew it would be incredulous as Mt. Sinai is not in a flood country.

Please do expand on Haik, only bearing in mind that there are two versions to it. (Please search and find what has been already said about the subject).
Khorenatsi is without dispute our Father of History, yet one has to remember also that he was in the service of the church. The reason why he distorted the epic of Haik and made it look like that of Abraham, i.e. Haik was in contest with Bel and he was defeatted and expelled. Can we, once and for all stop being defeated and expelled?!! Please!!

The original version of Haik's saga is that he was the King of Armenia and the country was assailed by Bel and Haik being the expert archer that he slew Bel and sent him where he belongs, "eshu drakht".

Please! Please! Let us stop that Noah (the hell with him) nonsense and stick to history not myth.
As Ludwig rightfully points Haik was bona fide historical figure but as history invariably becomes romanticised and myhtified he is now regarded as a mythical person.
Most myths are based on historical facts, but as there was no CNN at the time, and as the people were accustomed to mythologies (be they Greek, Egyptian, Roman or Armenian)stories become embellished through oral history and as the Armenian saying goes; "Berne beran asegh@ k@lla geran" (Mouth to mouth the needle becomes a log).

And please search this forum and find what has been said about Noah. How he was an original Armenian and that the writers of the Bible plagiarized an Armenian epic.

Here is one of them;
http://hyeforum.com/...wtopic=4429&hl=

One more thing. Can we please stop promoting Hebraic myhology on an Armenian forum? As if we don't do enough of it in church. They don't need our hepl. Thank you!

Edited by Arpa, 04 April 2005 - 07:43 PM.


#9 shaunt

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 08:47 PM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Apr 4 2005, 06:06 PM)
...and sent him where he belongs, "eshu drakht".


Why not "eshu acem?" biggrin.gif

Great post Arpa (as always)!

#10 kakachik77

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 11:24 AM

Rostom, great idea! However, you have left out the largest Armenian city besides Yerevan, which is Moscow (600,000 strong). Also, tons of other Russian and former Soviet cities cities - St. Petersburg, Rostov-on-Don, Krasnodar, Tbilisi, Tashkent, Kiev, Minsk etc. The largest Armenian community outside of present day Armenia resides in Russia and in former Soviet territories.

Also, in Latin America - Buenos Aires, Sao Paolo, Carracas

Eastern/Southern Europe - Sofia, Bucharest, Athens, Tesaloniki, Istanbul.

MidEast - Beirut, Damascus, Jerusalem, Dubai, Tehran.

Edited by kakachik77, 05 April 2005 - 11:31 AM.


#11 rostom

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE (Arpa @ Apr 4 2005, 05:06 PM)
Dear Rostom (Zavarian?)
Please don't be offended.


Points well taken. I will be reworking the front page as soon as I find some time.

Also, I believe it was Rostom Zarian (and Simon Zavarian).

rostom

#12 rostom

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 02:01 PM

Kakachik,
My goal with the site is to have all of these cities and more. But I can not do this on my own as this is merely a hobby for me; I can not travel to each and every one of these cities. It is especially difficult when it comes to countires that speak a language other than English because finding information from the net becomes more difficult. That is why in my original post I said that I am looking for people to help out.

If you live in any one of these cities that you mention and are willing to help out, please let me know. My goal is to have at least one contributor from each city who can put in just a few hours to take some pictures and provide names and addresses. I will post all contributor names on the site.

rostom

#13 Arpa

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (rostom @ Apr 5 2005, 05:59 PM)
Points well taken. I will be reworking the front page as soon as I find some time.

Also, I believe it was Rostom Zarian (and Simon Zavarian).

rostom


Thank you, you're right.
Rostom (Stepan) Zorian was one the trilogy that founded ARF inTiflis, 1890, the other two were Kristapor Mikaelian and Simon Zavarian

#14 kakachik77

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 02:44 PM

QUOTE (rostom @ Apr 5 2005, 02:01 PM)
Kakachik,
My goal with the site is to have all of these cities  and more. But I can not do this on my own as this is merely a hobby for me; I can not travel to each and every one of these cities. It is especially difficult when it comes to countires that speak a language other than English because finding information from the net becomes more difficult. That is why in my original post I said that I am looking for people to help out.

If you live in any one of these cities that you mention and are willing to help out, please let me know. My goal is to have at least one contributor from each city who can put in just a few hours to take some pictures and provide names and addresses. I will post all contributor names on the site.

rostom


Dear Rostom,
I would be willing to help out, I will get back to you, just keep me posted as one of potentials. Thanks.




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