37 replies to this topic

[MosJan]

AZERI ARMY CAN LIBERATE ‘SEIZED TERRITORIES’ DURING ONE WEEK, AZERI EXPERT SURE

“I am convinced that but for Russia’s support to Armenia, Azerbaijan could liberate the seized territories,” Azeri military expert Uzeir Jafarov said in an interview with Day.az. “As for the fact that Armenia can buy Russian weapons at a lower price, one should remember that Armenia is a member state of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) and this allows buying arms at a reduced price,” he said. When touching upon the defeat of Azeris is 1990-ies the expert said, “Now Armenians are idealizing the events of that time and forget that they also met defeat at some periods. Now, despite certain shortcoming of the Azeri army there are forces that can fulfill the task quickly. It’s not a secret that during the Karabakh war Russia was actively supporting Armenia. But time has passed and a big deal of work has been carried out,” Jafarov said.

[MosJan]

estegh en asel mets qaq ker bayst mets mi xosa !!!

[Johannes]

This is their song, which is.- "russia supported Armenia ".
We and everyone can give many examples.-that Russia and Ukrain backed up that turks by feeding them different types of guns and ammos.
During the war Armenia had not fighter jets, but those turks had jets and they bombarded Artsakh villages and Stephanacert during the war.

[Harut]

estegh en asel mets qaq ker bayst mets mi xosa !!!

kam mi urish barbarov...

es minum@ qaq@ kerel es...

[Error 404]

Hey guys,

let's not ignore the fact that now they are exporting oil and are in better economical situation. Lately ilham was going to buy more sophisticated military technology from the west and cooperate with NATO and US. Armenia is getting military equipment from Russia. I do not know if it is free or very cheap but the technology our army currently has is kind of outdated and needs upgrade. Funds for upgrade are not there. Ilham will meet with Putin soon and Putin wants to push more economical and military cooperation with azeris: cheaper military equipment, investments into azeri economy from the russian big companies etc. In return azerbaijan on his side has to switch from western market to the russian military market. Russia also wants azeris as an ally against Georgia. It is interesting what the outcome of the talks will be.

The situation is getting slowly concerning. You know turkish politics...

What are your thoughts about the issue?

[gmd]

Hey guys,

let's not ignore the fact that now they are exporting oil and are in better economical situation. Lately ilham was going to buy more sophisticated military technology from the west and cooperate with NATO and US. Armenia is getting military equipment from Russia. I do not know if it is free or very cheap but the technology our army currently has is kind of outdated and needs upgrade. Funds for upgrade are not there. Ilham will meet with Putin soon and Putin wants to push more economical and military cooperation with azeris: cheaper military equipment, investments into azeri economy from the russian big companies etc. In return azerbaijan on his side has to switch from western market to the russian military market. Russia also wants azeris as an ally against Georgia. It is interesting what the outcome of the talks will be.

The situation is getting slowly concerning. You know turkish politics...

What are your thoughts about the issue?

I would be surprise if this went very far. In my opinion the Russians take Aremenians for granted but at the same time they are not stupid people, especially Putin. He will do what is in his best interst and Russia's. However, trying to look at it from Russia's point of view it is better to have Armenia on my side and firmly wedged in between and against the Turks and Azeris. Obviously Armenia is Russias pawn right now but I do not think their short or long term goals are served by abandoning Armenia. Right now they are just trying to isolate Georgia and make an example of them. They do not want to lose any former Soviet states to NATO.

[MosJan]

the way i see it soon russia will be able to TELL Armenia or Azerbajan to settle this conflict the way it more profitable for russia

if russia liked it would of been settled long time a go / but no it needed a conflict this way Armenia and azerbajan Will always look up to russia for help / support / arms / and solutions

Artsax /. Osetya / Nakhidjevan / JAvaxkh.. are divided or Gaven to the other republic as an extra protection / Insurance policy for the Russians..... and it's working

God forbid russia becomes The BIG brother in the neighborhood, like it was up to 1992 - if it regains it's control over azerbajan we Armenians would not have a pleasant life, half of the distractions / forced evacuations & Massacres was committed front of Russian/USSR OMAN & By Them in Artsax

[gmd]

original source of article: http://www.karabagh....juznikavkaz.htm
It is a bit dated but interesting and valid to my argument that Russia's interest in the Caucus' are served by Armenia. Consider Armenia's position and who are the most logical and historical allies of Armenia. To me the obvious choices are Russia and Iran. We cannot trust Georgia, they are practically in bed with the Turks and Azeri's and my impression of Georgia is they would sell their sisters for a buck.

HOW TO MAINTAIN SOUTH CAUCASUS?



Time to Finalize Relations with Allies and Partners
Vladimir Stupishin
About the author: Vladimir Petrovich Stupishin is the first Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Ambassador of Russia to Armenia.
"Nezavisimaya Gazeta" (Independent Newspaper) is concerned about the further existence of "those states in the post-Soviet territory which have not been acknowledged yet" since they may become the focus of NATO's efforts" in a situation when "Russia is not able to block the way of the West towards taking control of the post-Soviet territories. …Russia lacks serious impetuses for counterbalancing these emerging endencies" (cf. "Nezavisimaya Gazeta" of March 2, 2002).

Undoubtedly, the existence of these states, firstly, Abkhazia and Karabagh, is put at risk. Nevertheless, Russia lacks impetuses for resisting the advancement of the USA and its allies in the post-Soviet territories which, in turn, harms the national interests of Russia. This is the case when even political statements may serve as impetuses. To this point Russia has been supportive for "mini-empires" and agreed to the groundless demonstration of their "rights" to the territories of the neighboring nations which in fact did not belong to them not so long ago.
Statements made at the top official level in favor of the sovereignty of the minority nations could put on reasonable tracks the negotiations on the new organization of the relations between the former Soviet republics and their former autonomous units. However, Moscow holds back from such statements although its time for Russia to choose between those who really are its allies or simply partners and those who have far-reaching intentions. Also, Moscow should freely assist those states which have the same interests as Russia does.
This is critical in a situation when third parties try to create dissonance between Russia and its strategic allies. In this aspect the pro-Azerbaijani lobby is particularly active in attempting to thrust a wedge between Russia and Armenia. Meanwhile, the Turkey-orientated Azerbaijan claims that it is Russia's "bearing point in Caucasus".
On the other hand, Azerbaijan tries to startle Russia by the NATO bases in Apsheron and a new war against Nagorno Karabagh unless the latter does not reject its independence in exchange of the fictitious self-governance within Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan attempts to scare Russia and delude us, relying on our short memory. Quite unexpectedly Moutalibov remembered about the "Khojali Tragedy when in February, 1992 hundreds of peaceful people were killed as the result of the joint operation of the Armenian armed forces and the 366th Russia Infantry Regiment in the territory of Nagorno Karabagh". Did not Moutalibov personally admit in 1992 that the "Khojali tragedy" was, in essence, a provocation perpetrated not by the Armenians, but the people of Elchibey against Moutalibov himself (cf.: Moutalibov's interview in "Nezavisimaya Gazeta", April 4, 1992)?
Moutalbov referred to the old deceptive propaganda blown up by Elchibey for inseminating discord between Armenia and Russia. The successful development of the Armenian-Russian relations will not be in favor of the present authorities in Baku or the opposition, or anyone here, in Russia who are fed from the hands of the Azerbaijani lobby. They all push Moscow towards supporting Azerbaijan in implementing its plans on annexation of Karabagh.
For this purpose, in addition to other means, Azerbaijan speculates with the thesis about the so-called "pro-western" orientation of the present Armenian leaders. Meanwhile, Yerevan merely seeks for diversifying its foreign relations which is the only reasonable way for Armenia to survive. Moreover, what it needs is neither pro-American nor pro-Russian, but pro-Armenian policy. And if Russia intends to maintain its positions in Transcaucasus, it must regard the foreign relations of its ally Armenia with understanding, particularly in such situations when Russia itself is not able to assist Armenia. For example, the humanitarian aid provided by the USA in the course of the last 10 years which amounts to hundreds of million dollars. Can Russia undertake this responsibility itself?
Nevertheless, Russia has other impetuses for strengthening its position in Transcaucasus, for example, the cooperation in the military sphere, including air defense and borders. In Transcaucasus such cooperation exists only with Armenia. Another impetus is the ownership of industrial and scientific assets which is critical for holding economic and social positions in any country. The above-mentioned issue is currently being discussed between Russia and Armenia. The protection of Armenia involves the defense of the borders and could more effectively contribute to the solution of the Karabagh problem without any regard to the Turkish-Azerbaijani pressure which is evidently in contradiction with our interests because of the far-going Pan-Turkish intentions.
The Russian president announced in Yerevan in September, 2001 that "Russia's policy in the region will be targeted at ensuring Armenia's sound defense", and the resolution of the Karabagh problem should derive from the established status-quo: "Russia should be cautious for not destroying the balance which has been created between Armenia and Azerbaijan". To me, this position which is in line with Russia's interests.
In general, it is time for Russia to stop trusting Azerbaijan in a situation when Baku swears to Moscow about friendship forever and acts as a loyal vassal of Turkey and a champion of Pan-Turkism. As soon as Russia goes to a compromise and gives up Karabagh, the Turkey-orientated Azerbaijan will no longer need Russia's support.
This does not mean termination of our relations with Azerbaijan and application of any sanctions against it. There are around 3 million Azerbaijanis in Russia, and some of them have received Russian citizenship. In addition, Azerbaijan is our neighbor and Russia should treat it as a friendly neighboring state even if the latter fails to act in the same way. We should trade and cooperate in all possible areas, and promote cultural exchange between Russia and Azerbaijan. At the same time Russia should not oversee the real intentions of Azerbaijan especially when these intentions are in contradiction with the interests of Russia.
Armenia has been our strategic partner since the very start of our relations and we need to treat Armenia accordingly. In this aspect I mean both Armenia and Karabagh because without Karabagh we would not have an independent and friendly Armenia. In turn, without the latter Russia would not have any bearing points in Transcaucasus. It follows that Russia should take Karabagh under its protection, and comprehensively assist in strengthening its security in its historical territory the borders of which were distorted by the Russian Bolsheviks and need to be rehabilitated. The unity of NKR deserves to be respected just as the territorial unity of other states.
To me, the fair resolution of the Karabagh conflict assumes that Azerbaijan should refuse from the authentic Armenian territories. The crucial problem of refugees can be addressed by accommodating them in those areas where they reside now. It is senseless to hope that the Armenians can return to Baku, Gyanja, Sumgayit, Artsvashen, Getashen, etc. In this case why only the issue of the Azerbaijani refugees is raised at the discussions around the Karabagh conflict?
In my opinion, the optimal solution of the Karabagh problem is the legitimization of the status-quo on the borders stretching along the confrontation line, as defined in the cease-fire agreement of 1994. Today all other alternatives are simply unrealistic other than the war on which Azerbiajan relies although it will not be of any benefit neither for the Armenian nor the Azerbaijani peoples.

[Error 404]

I am closely following incidents (referendum) in south Ossetia. It is interesting if they get independent and then the next step will be joining with Russia according to their plans. It is a good excuse and example for Karabax too. I heard Venezuela will recognize south Osetia's independence. Itt would be very delicate question for Armenia to recognize it or not. I wonder what Russia will do?

MosJan we are surrounded with historical enemies in the region. I would prefer Armenia to be under Russia's arm than turkey's or Iran's. US will never take care of Armenia like it does for Israel. And last but not least Armenia is too small and to weak in the region to survive by itself. It is not a taboo anymore in the politics to say "Eat or be eaten". So it is better to keep on russians side that way we can get free S300 Surface to Air missiles to keep our air borders secure from turkish and azeri provocations and other mil. equipment. Armenians in Russia (more than 1milion) can stay there and financially and morally support our country.

Russia needs a strategic partner in the region and Armenia needs a supporting strong hand I think it is a good match. Russias partnership with Gerogia is not possible anymore, azeris are playing diplomatic games but I do not think Russia will go into long term partnership with azeris. They know that azeris are back stubbers. So the only vital choice is Armenia.

[MosJan]

Russia has no need for Armenia if it has control over Azerbaijan
lets just hope Russia and Azeris never become good "friends" again
Russia is holding Armenia as it's insurance against georgia & Azeris

as for Armenia - russia has Armenia from it's BOLLS / and can tell Armenia what to do.....

[MosJan]

OSKANIAN PRESENTS DETAILS OF HIS BRUSSELS MEETINGS

By Harry Tamrazian in Brussels

Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian spoke of ‘some little progress’ made at the Armenian-Azeri ministerial talks in Brussels earlier this week, but said the “moderate expectations” from the meeting with his Azeri counterpart Elmar Mamedyarov were not fully met.

“A general outline of agreement around the proposals and thoughts voiced during the Moscow meeting and discussed in Paris began to emerge, though I cannot say that this is some complete agreement,” Oskanian told RFE/RL after the meeting on Monday. The minister added that “negotiations should be continued.”

Oskanian found it reassuring that after listening to the sides the OSCE Minsk Group cochairmen suggested that the two countries’ presidents should meet on the sidelines of the CIS summit due later this month.

“They are likely to have seen some positive moments in our discussions and based on that made a decision to invite the presidents to such a meeting,” Oskanian said.

“Of course, the presidents will decide whether to accept the invitation or not after listening to their ministers. And for this very reason the cochairmen will pay a visit to the region next week,” Oskanian said, adding that the international negotiators are expected in Yerevan on November 21.

The minister reiterated that the expression of the Karabakh people’s will remains a key principle for Armenia at the talks.

“This is one of the key issues, and, of course, it is essential to the Armenian side,” Oskanian said. “Whether it is done through a referendum or in some other way, the right of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh to self-determination must be stated in the document that should serve as a means for resolution.”

To the question whether he felt any change in Azerbaijan’s tough position during the meeting, the minister said: “I can say only that the atmosphere was quite positive. It was a constructive meeting, some serious discussion went on, some thoughts were expressed.”

“I cannot say that we made concrete arrangements, but the bottomline of those discussions is that positions have in some way moved closer together,” Oskanian said. “We want to consider it to be a flexible approach, a compromise, I don’t want to give qualifications. I can only state that some general outline of agreement appeared to have emerged during that meeting.”

Assessing Russia’s role in the Karabakh peace process, the Armenian minister praised this country’s constructive position. “Russia’s approaches have always been consonant with those of the other cochairmen,” he said.

Evaluating the Armenia Action Plan as part of the EU new neighborhood policy, the minister emphasized that “with the adoption of this document Armenia has raised its relations with the European Union to a qualitatively new level.”

“It holds out serious prospects before us to move towards closer integration in that structure and deepen our relationship,” Oskanian said. “This program has a five-year duration, it has a solid financial basis, it well serves its purpose, and, indeed, Armenia can benefit from it immensely if it implements it properly.”

“I’ve said on many occasions that if we manage to take full advantage of the opportunities offered by this program, in five years Armenia can be a politically and economically different state,” the minister underscored. “And we, indeed, must be consistent in its realization.”

Speaking about the upcoming parliamentary and presidential elections in Armenia, Oskanian said: “One of the key questions raised during the meeting of the EU-Armenia Cooperation Council was our future elections. Our future elections have been high on the agenda of any bilateral meeting I’ve had in the past few months. It has been so much talked about that we, indeed, have no room for mistake this time around.”

The minister urged all political forces and the public to work together to hold qualitatively better elections, as otherwise, he says, ‘Armenia has much to lose’.

“Armenia’s further democratic development largely depends on the upcoming parliamentary and presidential elections,” Oskanian emphasized.

While in Brussels, Oskanian also participated in the closed meeting of the foreign ministers of the three South Caucasus states with EU representatives. He said the whole spectrum of issues in the region, including the continuing standoff between Russia and Georgia, was discussed by the parties.

According to Oskanian, Armenia has friendly relations with both Russia and Georgia and wants to preserve its impartial attitude. At the same time, the Armenian minister is concerned over more tensions emerging in the relations between these two countries, which, according to him, is against Armenia’s political and economic interests.

“We want to see good relations between Russia and Georgia in the interest of the whole region,” Oskanian stressed. He denied that Russia has exerted any pressure on Armenia to cooperate with it against Georgia.

“Such thoughts may have been voiced within public circles in Russia that expected Armenia to cooperate on that matter. But I assure you that no such position was officially expressed to Armenia. Armenia has not taken sides in this standoff and will continue to appear from neutral positions,” the Armenian minister concluded.

[ARMENISM]

kank klinenk u piti shatanank vor turkin kotorenk.

[MadArmo]

Armenia will survive but will it sacrifice freedom? In my opinion unity is void... We fight a good battle but somehow fail to win a war. We have many advantages we can exercise and play dirty politics as well, This will bring us some respect and serious change about Armenian policy from non supportive nations who dangle a carrot only to dissapoint us later. No more excuses ! We can eradicate the Turkish propaganda machine once in for all and redicule their allies at will IE: State of Israel ! Here is a riddle for begginers they are a key to our success, " If you can't beat them ... Then join them ... " Use your talents Armenians !

The facts are overwhelming ... They slander us without mercy and publicly spat on our cross ! It's called a media blitz and that's how you let other nations fight wars in your defence. My fellow Armenians we must learn to agree to disagree, No matter what the outcome it's all or nothing ! Protect eachother at any cost because we are poetic warriors and true patriots of Armenia.

Perhaps this my help. Let's implement a standerd protocol to rebuff these blood thirsty genocidal , fanatical , subhumans from causing any more damage to our divine existence. Start challenging them head on, Use the American court system to punish their filty lies, Use any & all historical archives without fear even challenge the entire nation of Turkey to make Amends at United Nations for Genocide, File lawsuits at whomever questions the plight of Armenians, Cover the Globe... I'll bet it yield some fruitful results just ask Geragosian, Mark & others who vigerously fought every legal challenge, I can go on ... But only one or few can't stand firm to tyranny risen from a nations devastation...


Unity or Assimilation whats your choice ??

Edited by MadArmo, 11 February 2007 - 12:02 AM.

[irlandahay]

Armenia will survive but will it sacrifice freedom? In my opinion unity is void... We fight a good battle but somehow fail to win a war. We have many advantages we can exercise and play dirty politics as well, This will bring us some respect and serious change about Armenian policy from non supportive nations who dangle a carrot only to dissapoint us later. No more excuses ! We can eradicate the Turkish propaganda machine once in for all and redicule their allies at will IE: State of Israel ! Here is a riddle for begginers they are a key to our success, " If you can't beat them ... Then join them ... " Use your talents Armenians !

The facts are overwhelming ... They slander us without mercy and publicly spat on our cross ! It's called a media blitz and that's how you let other nations fight wars in your defence. My fellow Armenians we must learn to agree to disagree, No matter what the outcome it's all or nothing ! Protect eachother at any cost because we are poetic warriors and true patriots of Armenia.

Perhaps this my help. Let's implement a standerd protocol to rebuff these blood thirsty genocidal , fanatical , subhumans from causing any more damage to our divine existence. Start challenging them head on, Use the American court system to punish their filty lies, Use any & all historical archives without fear even challenge the entire nation of Turkey to make Amends at United Nations for Genocide, File lawsuits at whomever questions the plight of Armenians, Cover the Globe... I'll bet it yield some fruitful results just ask Geragosian, Mark & others who vigerously fought every legal challenge, I can go on ... But only one or few can't stand firm to tyranny risen from a nations devastation...
Unity or Assimilation whats your choice ??

interesting but extreem none theless

[Armenak]

I've always hated that toponym: Nagorno-Karabakh. It sounds ugly and there is nothing Armenian about it.

Can we at least call it the "Armenian Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh"? The Turks have their Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, don't they?

Most of all I would prefer if we all called it Artsakh. We should also think about incorporating it as a marz within Armenia.

[hosank]

please
enough defeatist talk

here is the truth. in 1991, the azeris had soviet, then russian support, as well as countless other ex-soviet mercenaries under their pay role.

if you ever listen to melkonians videos, he explains quite well the situation of the first war. he tells us that 90% of the weapons the fedayis under his command were using, were captured from azeri troops. armenians were not well equiped, undermanned and so on, yet they still submitted a crushing defeat against the turkic invader.

now point being this, we are all afraid that azeri oil will be it's key to victory in a future war. this is quite false. see, investment does not work in an unstable region. if war brakes out this is like a death sentence for that little country's economy, which is based only on oil. this meaning, the armenians of georgia will brake the pipe, already a considerable setback, seeing as it is their only money source. then, all business will flee. so do they really want a war?

armenia's economy is based on a more balanced system. armenia's economic system has been built during the blockade, and is flourishing at a rate comparable to the azeris. the azeris are already fully blockading armenia, how much more economic sanctions can they come up with? since our economy still works now. point being, armenia's economy will not change too much in war.

then, if you look at a topographic map of the region, you notice that artsakh is a huge chunk of mountains, and azerbaijan is mostly flat. in war, high ground is crucial.

next we have the whole scare about azerbaijan's 1 billion military budget. just because they have money to spend, does not mean they are spending it properly. armenia could buy the same equipment azerbaijan buys 6 times cheaper thanks to it's defense alliances and so on. armenian officers are trained in russia and greece.

finally, morale, morale is the most important thing. every patriotic armenian knows that karabakh is armenia. most fedayis who fought the first war were born in bred in that land and were defending their homes. most azeris who are on the artsakh front come from far away places like baku and never heard of that place till they got enlisted.

most of them, even thought they hide it, and put youtube videos showing their determination to regain their 'motherland' know that it is not theirs, deep down in their hearts.

most azeris soldiers are fed up with their corrupt military system, and their dayly hazing and so on. if you read armenian papers, you would probably be aware of the number of azeris who defect over the frontline to armenia.

finally, i find that the azeri government's refusal to understand that they lost the war through genuine cause of arms will be their downfall.
they cannot accept that they were beaten. they come up with excuses like...the russians helped the armenians, or, the armenians 'genocided' khojaly (you know, as if that was an important factor in the azeris retreating on the entire front) and so on. all of these are lies, obviously, but obstruct azeri strategists from seeing that their strategy is wrong, this will ultimately lead to their defeat, yet again.

[SHENGAVIT]

AZERI ARMY CAN LIBERATE ‘SEIZED TERRITORIES’ DURING ONE WEEK, AZERI EXPERT SURE


Sure, just like the last time they tried to take Artzax from Armenia they saw who got kicked up.
Armenian women can fight better then their cowardly bunch of theives called Azeri Army.

[hosank]

Ազէրպայճաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաան

[irlandahay]

Ազէրպայճաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաաան

raffi, i think its about time to take out the baku (trash)

[hosank]

արդեն հանեցի