191 replies to this topic

[Arpa]

I don't get it

He is talking about կաթ /կադ

[Shahan Araradian]

Then how about you type ՏԱՇՆԱԳ, transliterated from "tashnag" and tell us about it.

դաշնակցական or դաշնակ for short is a common word, not a proper one! (Being one of the capitalized letters in ՀՅԴ doesn't mean the word "դաշնակցութիւն" is proper! That's like saying the word "service" in IRS -- Internal Revenue Service -- is a proper word!)

[Arpa]

դաշնակցական or դաշնակ for short is a common word, not a proper one! (Being one of the capitalized letters in ՀՅԴ doesn't mean the word "դաշնակցութիւն" is proper! That's like saying the word "service" in IRS -- Internal Revenue Service -- is a proper word!)

There are a few more things tat you don't get besides "god/կադ. How about the way you spell tashnag/ տաշնագ and dashnak/դաշնակ as piano.
We know where դաշնակ comes from and what դաշնակցութիւն is

Edited by Arpa, 15 July 2007 - 06:50 PM.

[Shahan Araradian]

He is talking about կաթ /կադ

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense because "կաթ" is pronounced "Gaht" (IPA: /gɑtʰ/) in Western Armenian, the same way it's pronounced in Eastern Armenian.

[Shahan Araradian]

There are a few more things tat you don't get besides "god/կադ. How about the way you spell tashnag/ տաշնագ and dashnak/դաշնակ as piano.
We know where դաշնակ comes from and what դաշնակցութիւն is

There is NO such word as "տաշնագ" in Armenian!! (as there is no such word as "կադ" in Armenian)

From Nayiri:

դաշնակ գ. Երաժշտական գործիք * հայ կուսակցական:
դաշնակ ած. Ներդաշնակ, դաշնակից:

Piano in Armenian is spelled դաշնակ , as is a member of the ARF.

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 06:53 PM.

[Arpa]

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense because "կաթ" is pronounced "Gaht" (IPA: /gɑtʰ/) in Western Armenian, the same way it's pronounced in Eastern Armenian.

Sorry, wrong again, in eastern կաթ is pronounced as kat, not gat.

[Shahan Araradian]

Sorry, wrong again, in eastern կաթ is pronounced as kat, not gat.

Right. Missed the կ. My point is that it's not pronounced "god" or "kod" with a "d" in EITHER dialect.

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 06:55 PM.

[Sip]

Sorry, wrong again, in eastern կաթ is pronounced as kat, not gat.

"Kat" with the 'a' as in dart. The K is more of a cross between "K" and "G" and comes from deeper down inside the throat from the back of the tongue and the sound is much more muffled. The english "K" originates higher up in the mouth with more "air".

Edited by Sip, 15 July 2007 - 07:01 PM.

[Arpa]

There is NO such word as "տաշնագ" in Armenian!! (as there is no such word as "կադ" in Armenian)

Then why are you transliterating it as if it is written as տաշնագ in Armenian?
Shahan, you should know by now that you're on your own in tis battle because you are wrong. I have said this before that I was brought up in what you western Armenian but I also know that Բ=B Գ=C/G and Դ=D Տ=T and so on.

Edited by Arpa, 15 July 2007 - 07:02 PM.

[nairi]

All Armenian vocabulary is the same between Eastern and Western Armenian. Usage is another issue, and that's not dealt by a dictionary.

Then you are not familiar with decent dictionaries. The point of looking up a word is not merely to get its definition. It's also to learn how to use it or to understand how it is used in different contexts.

In the Republic of Armenia, some Russian words are being used as Armenian like "կորուփցիա" etc, when there are pure Armenian words for them. These type of words don't qualify to being in an Armenian dictionary...

This is a ridiculous claim, which I won't go into, except by saying that if we were to judge Armenian like that, then we would be left with nothing more than a small handful of so-called "pure" Armenian words. Not much use for a dictionary then.

As I've indicated before, there would be two DIFFERENT plug-ins for Firefox or OpenOffice: one for Traditional Armenian Orthography, and one for Reformed Armenian Orthography (the latter would be used by Armenians from Armenia, and everywhere else including Eastern Armenians in Iran would use TAO).

Why not simply have them on the same site?

Example: I look up միություն. What I would like to see for that entry is something along the lines of this:

միություն (mod. spelling). Also միութիւն (trad. spelling).

Pronunciation in East Armenian. Pronunciation in West Armenian.

Grammatical info: noun, verb, adjective, etc. Exceptional characteristics should also be mentioned, such as plurals, declensions, conjugations, etc. Also such things as formal, colloquial, slang, etc.

Definition:

1. general definition
2. more specific definition
3. dialectal differences in any

Sample sentences from real life (either written texts or spoken recordings).

Optional: synonyms and antonyms.

You may add more to the list.

[Shahan Araradian]

Then you are not familiar with decent dictionaries. The point of looking up a word is not merely to get its definition. It's also to learn how to use it or to understand how it is used in different contexts.

By "usage" I meant the preference of one synonym over another in Eastern Armenian vs. Western Armenian, not by usage as in an example sentence.

This is a ridiculous claim, which I won't go into, except by saying that if we were to judge Armenian like that, then we would be left with nothing more than a small handful of so-called "pure" Armenian words. Not much use for a dictionary then.

Not really. There are Armenian words for nearly every "Armenianized" word that is borrowed from Russian in the media of the Republic of Armenia.

Journalists in ROA are simply IGNORANT of them.

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 07:24 PM.

[Arpa]

There is NO such word as "տաշնագ" in Armenian!! (as there is no such word as "կադ" in Armenian)

From Nayiri:

դաշնակ գ. Երաժշտական գործիք * հայ կուսակցական:
դաշնակ ած. Ներդաշնակ, դաշնակից:

Piano in Armenian is spelled դաշնակ , as is a member of the ARF.

BTW. There is no such word as dashnak/դաշնակ to mean piano either, even if it is widely used as in dashnakahar etc.. The proper Armenian word is dashnamour/դաշնամուր, a lose translation from the Latin pianoforte.
I lied again. Yes there suc a word as դաշնակ it mean փոքր դաշոյն small dagger.

Edited by Arpa, 15 July 2007 - 07:35 PM.

[Shahan Araradian]

BTW. There is no such word as dashnak/դաշնակ to mean piano either, even if it is widely used as in dashnakahar etc.. The proper Armenian word is dashnamour/դաշնամուր, a lose translation from the Latin pianoforte.

LOL.

Nayiri distinguishes between dashnak (EA) / tashnag (WA) [դաշնակ] and dashnamour (EA) / tashnamour (WA) [դաշնամուր]:

դաշնամուր գ. Դաշնակի մեծ տեսակը:
դաշնակ գ. Երաժշտական գործիք * հայ կուսակցական:

Sorry but I prefer the definition in this dictionary over your "interpretation."

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 07:29 PM.

[Shahan Araradian]

Then why are you transliterating it as if it is written as տաշնագ in Armenian?
Shahan, you should know by now that you're on your own in tis battle because you are wrong. I have said this before that I was brought up in what you western Armenian but I also know that Բ=B Գ=C/G and Դ=D Տ=T and so on.

I, too, know the distinctions between Classical Armenian phonology, Eastern Armenian phonology, and Western Armenian phonology.

Each is its own legitimate phonology in its OWN right!

1) I transliterate դաշնակ as "tashnag" in Western Armenian, because that is the way it is pronounced in Western Armenian phonology!

2) In Eastern Armenian phonology this is pronounced " dashnak' " (with an ejective K, represented by k' -- kʼ, a Velar ejective)

3) In Classical Armenian phonology դաշնակ is pronounced " dashnak " (K as in a plain Voiceless velar plosive)

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 07:43 PM.

[Arpa]

LOL.

Nayiri distinguishes between dashnak (EA) / tashnag (WA) [դաշնակ] and dashnamour (EA) / tashnamour (WA) [դաշնամուր]:

դաշնամուր գ. Դաշնակի մեծ տեսակը:
դաշնակ գ. Երաժշտական գործիք * հայ կուսակցական:

Sorry but I prefer the definition in this dictionary over your "interpretation."

Stop making things up, like small piano and large piano. You know that you are sinking deeper and deeper in your own quicksand.
What are going to tell us next, that joutak/ջութակ is a small violin and the regular size is called jout/ջութ?

[Shahan Araradian]

Stop making things up, like small piano and large piano. You know that you are sinking deeper and deeper in your own quicksand.
What are going to tell us next, that joutak/ջութակ is a small violin and the regular size is called jout/ջութ?

I'm not the one making it up. It's from the dictionary, and I did not write it. I'm only a messenger.

You can corroborate my claim by consulting some Armenian dictionaries.

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 07:49 PM.

[Arpa]

I'm not the one making it up. It's from the dictionary, and I did not write it. I'm only a messenger.

You can corroborate my claim by consulting some Armenian dictionaries.

I had just looked it up. That is where I saw "դաշնակ=small dagger". Ajarian does not even list it, and Soukiasian says դաշնակ , դաշնամուր, no distinction of size.What kind of dictionaries do you use? The one by Martiros Koushakjian? When did he learn Armenian? Not to mention English. You need better dictionaries.
I have at least 15 dictionaries of many languages.

[Shahan Araradian]

Why not simply have them on the same site?

Example: I look up միություն. What I would like to see for that entry is something along the lines of this:

միություն (mod. spelling). Also միութիւն (trad. spelling).

Pronunciation in East Armenian. Pronunciation in West Armenian.

Grammatical info: noun, verb, adjective, etc. Exceptional characteristics should also be mentioned, such as plurals, declensions, conjugations, etc. Also such things as formal, colloquial, slang, etc.

Definition:

1. general definition
2. more specific definition
3. dialectal differences in any

Sample sentences from real life (either written texts or spoken recordings).

Optional: synonyms and antonyms.

You may add more to the list.

That is a good suggestion for a dictionary. (Note that there would still be two different versions for a SPELL-CHECKER, just as there are 4 versions of a German spellchecker for Firefox, and the same for English. The reason being that a single person uses only ONE orthography, and not both.)

I wonder if a wiki-style setup would work so that the general public can contribute new words to the dictionary with the above information.

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 08:07 PM.

[Shahan Araradian]

I had just looked it up. That is where I saw "դաշնակ=small dagger". Ajarian does not even list it, and Soukiasian says դաշնակ , դաշնամուր, no distinction of size.What kind of dictionaries do you use? The one by Martiros Koushakjian? When did he learn Armenian? Not to mention English. You need better dictionaries.
I have at least 15 dictionaries of many languages.

I just looked it up in "Գործնական Բառարան Հայերէն Լեզուի" by Անդրանիկ Վրդ. Կռանեան, 1983 p. 88 for դաշնակ and p. 89 for դաշնամուր.

Edited by Shahan Araradian, 15 July 2007 - 08:10 PM.

[Arpa]

I wonder if a wiki-style setup would work so that the general public can contribute new words to the dictionary with the above information.

Wiki-style? So everyone and their uncles, whether they know the language or not can contribute and pollute?
Look at some of the info in wiki and tell us which is correct that Armenians came from China or Sweden, or that we are descendants of Noah??