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What dialect is this?


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#1 hagopn

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 10:03 PM

 

 https://eksisozluk.c...n-elar--2255268

kına ari man ari, çin elar çin elar
çin elarıs tamama, harıt kıdi dun are
kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman a

intzi hamar lusnak yes
merpipari tzerpipari cıhkerı, cıhkerı
madanu ankin ag yes
intzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagati
cami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri

ay dığa volor molor, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama,
konimen kosim polor
kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman a
gabel yes kirman kodin

merpipari tzerpipari cıhkeri, cıhkeri
intz ces tohum kez modig
intzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagati
cami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri

mi pahir serıs tu yes, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama
araçın serıs tu yes
kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman a
aherp arı yerp kıdar
merpipari tzerpipari cıhkeri, cıhkeri
kılhin lihşen ajva vah
intzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagati
cami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri

yes modaj yem kocari, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama
tu nişane modani
kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman a

mert zerıt ku can ahcig
merpipari tzerpipari cıhkeri, cıhkeri
imlalu vay can ahcig
intzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagati
cami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri



#2 man

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:13 PM

h.n. jan what kind of vids are those? I mean you should not be meddling with the Kurds specially the revolutionary ones.

It you want my opinion this is Armenian Dikragatezti dialect, its an Armenian song but its sung by the Kurds. The letters of lyrics looks to me Turkish, the Kurds have their own letters but are not allowed to write by it in Turkey. I may be mistaken so wait for another comment from someone else. By the way do you ever sleep or you are 24 hours a day on front of the computer?



#3 Yervant1

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:30 PM

Very good chance that it's Hamshentsi!



#4 Yervant1

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:37 PM

anonim bir ermeni halk şarkısı. 

 

This means "My mother's Armenian folk song"  I got this from the link you have in your post above the song lyrics.



#5 hagopn

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:44 AM

Man, I just write fast--:), and you might just be right about the dialect, and it is entirely possible that these people did mistranscribe and sing incorrectly much of the words..  I also sourced this from another Armenian forum.  The links were provided in their post.

 

Yervant, Hamshentsi has more Grabarr elements to it, and it is borderline phonetically speaking between Eastern and Western.  This one sounds more so western.

 

intzi hamar lusnak yes
merpipari tzerpipari cıhkerı, cıhkerı
madanu ankin ag yes
intzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagati
cami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri

 

This above is definitely some sort of western Armenian, a bit localized, perhaps even distorted by these Kurds (which wouldn't be at all surprising), but definitely western Armenian.



#6 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:07 AM

What if we read the I without the dot as the Armenian Ը . What do we get? Also note that that I used in other places like cikeri r..e ջիկարԸ
And what do we get when we read the C as the Slavic C to sound like Ց/TS Ձ/DZ like Ձին ելար. You rode the horse? I have to read it more carefully to see more.

Edited by Arpa, 02 February 2014 - 09:08 AM.


#7 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:28 AM

Note that the writer is someone called Paylak.
Yervant translated the furkish title correctly.
----
anonim bir ermeni halk şarkısı.

sözleri:
kına ari man ari, çin elar çin elar
çin elarıs tamama, harıt kıdi dun are
kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşı yaman a

Գնա արի, ման արի, ձին ելար, ձին ելար
Ձին ելար ես թամամ ա , հէըդ գիտի դուն արի
Գուրգեն ջան, Բաբկեն ջան հալըս յախսշի յաման ա.

TBC

#8 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:07 AM

On a second reading I believe "anonim" means anonymous and not mother, last night after few drinks my eyes saw it as "Anamin" read the "i" without the dot which means my mother. So the correct title would be "An anonymous Armenian folk song" . Now the title doesn't mean that the singer is Armenian, therefore the Hamshen connection is less likely. You're right Hakop it sounds more Western Armenian with some turkish words because we all know that Armenians did use turkish words as well with Armenian.

 

As for the "c" with the dot under sounds like "tch" and the "s" with the dot under sounds like "sh", the "g" with the dot on top sounds like "ghe"  they call it softer "g". 

I doubt that "cin" means horse with dot under "c", because it should sound as "tchin" and not TS.



#9 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:17 AM

intzi hamar lusnak yes
merpipari tzerpipari cıhkerı, cıhkerı
madanu ankin ag yes
intzi varetz horomsimi, kayaneyi, şoğagati
cami ceri cıhkeri, cıhkeri

Ինձի համար լուսնակ ես
Մեր պիպէրը ձեր պիպէրը, ջիկէրը, ջիկէրը
Մատանու անգին ակ ես
Ինձի վառեց Հոռոմիսմը** Կայանէ ը Շողակաթը
Ծամը ձեռը ջիկէրը:


ay dığa volor molor, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama,
konimen kosim polor
kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşi yaman a
gabel yes kirman kodin

Այ տղայ ոլոր մոլոր, ձին ելար, ձին ելար ես թամամ ա
Քանիմըն կոսիմ բոլոր
Գուրգեն ջան, Բաբկեն ջան հալըս յախշի յաման ա
Կապել ես քիրման գօտին:


Refrain. Մեր պիպէրը .

mi pahir serıs tu yes, çin elar çin elar, çin elarıs tamama
araçın serıs tu yes
kurkencan, papkencan, halıs yahşi yaman a
aherp arı yerp kıdar

Մի փախիր, սէըս դու ես ձին ելար
Գուրգեն ջան.
Ահ երբ արի, երբ գտար:


Refrain .
kılhin lihşen ajva vah
Գլխին լիխշեն այվախ, վախ

Ես մոտ եմ, ք ո յարը.


^^I think Horomism is meant to be Hripsimeh

#10 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:19 AM

Yervant,You may be right anout chin, i.e jin = anger.

Edited by Arpa, 02 February 2014 - 10:27 AM.


#11 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:27 AM

No Arpa in turkish anonim is anonymous I know this 100%.

 

Mi pahir means don't hide not don't scape. So the sentence is "Don't hide you're my love" that's what I understood.



#12 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:30 AM

I had thoughts that that O is meant to sound like A as Come. i.e "anamin"

#13 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:31 AM

Yervant,You may be right anout chin, i.e jin = anger.

Jin most probably in this song means "Ghost" like disappeared as ghost.



#14 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:33 AM

I had thoughts that that O is meant to sound like A as Come. i.e "anamin"

In turkish every letter sounds as it is, "o" will sound as "o".



#15 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:34 AM

I took all the H s as KH, however in vulgar Armenian we hear said Jin@s mi haner. "Don't make me angry".

Edited by Arpa, 02 February 2014 - 10:35 AM.


#16 man

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:37 AM

My first thought it was Hameshtine Armenian but I have listed to some of their tapes and speak and this one does not looked Hameshtine to me. It is more likely the SASOUNTSI Armenian, of course nobody hears today of Sasuntsi Armenian dialect because almost most were massacred in the 1915 genocide. So this is from that region: Sasun & Dikranakert (today's Diarbeker).



#17 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:37 AM

It's more likely "hokis mi haner" meaning ghost not anger.



#18 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:01 AM

Thank you Yervant for your kind indulgence. And your apt amendments.
Now, in that light we need to revise my entire. interpretation.

#19 Arpa

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:07 PM

Thank you Yervant. Youre right. I should have noticed that they are using the furkish C , i.e in Jin and Jiker Tho I still maintain that jin is used to mean anger. as in jin yelar=barkatsar, you became angry.
I will try it again, stanza by stanza. and finally we will translate it to English.
I am sure it needs further refinement and amendments.
----
Գնա արի, ման արի, ման արի, Ճին ելար, ճին ելար,
Ճին ելեր ես թամամը, հէրըդ գիտի, տուն արի
Գուրգեն ճան , Բաբկեն ճան , հալըս յախշի յաման** ա ::


** Հալ= վիճակ.. Yakhshi ***and Yaman are furk-asszeri to mean totally and miserable/cruel respectively and Tamam=total, complete.. My furkish dictionary says yahshi means pretty, which is a revision at best. I will abstain from going into their vocabulary.
*** It s like when an asszeri says men yakhshi bilerum

#20 Yervant1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:38 PM

Yaman means clever (jarpik)






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